[Closed] EU Automated speed limits

Shall we just roll out the other thread from the volvo limit? Not expecting much different.

This and the 'banning of memes' are breaking news at a bad time in the UK 🙂

I think it's a good idea, depending on implementation.

You could get five seconds of extra speed once a month if you need it to 'avoid an accident' even though I think that's bobbins personally. Defensive driving doesn't mean zooming through a near-miss situation at 50% over the limit even if your car is that fast which most aren't.

Average driver here. Generally in favour but just heard an argument against: people won't buy new cars.

The automated speed limit has grabbed the headlines but the data recording proposal might have a bigger bearing on road safety though that would depend on what sensors are fitted to the vehicles: speed obviously but maybe a proximity sensor (for tailgating) and accelerometers to determine the style of driving.

Most views covered 😉

Just cut and paste as required
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/112mph/
@molgrips your a communist imposing that sort of rule on the basic freedom of breaking speed limits,won't you think about the children being rushed to an urgent birthday party or the very important person who always leaves too late for the traffic 🙂

Shall we just roll out the other thread from the volvo limit? Not expecting much different.

Ah but that was from the sensible swedes, this is from the draconian unelected boorocats of the EU 😉

There might be a bargain to be made here. Accept the speed limiting cars but then upgrade the motorway speed limit to 80mph on the more open sections.

And yes, the telemetry is potentially a more important thing. It could be linked to pay as you drive insurance. So every time you tailgate or pull out into a small gap it adds a bit onto your monthly bill. Likewise if you don't drive anywhere that month, your bill will be next to nothing.

Now THAT is a brilliant idea, even if I say so myself. You could have your costs displayed on the dash. Cut someone up - bing, another £1 racks up. Which sci-fi film is it where the car is constantly binging him for his bad driving? Is it Demolition Man?

According to the AA it's a silly idea as Dodgems still crash. 😂

Mr King added: "Dodgem cars are all fitted with speed limiters, but they still seem to crash."

Great idea but it will be decades before it applies to the majority of cars on the road. Long overdue using tech to limit speed, dangerous and inconsiderate driving. I think driverless cars may be sooner .

@mogrips - I don't think the proposed data recorder is full on space shuttle style telemetry 😃 but something like the flight data recorder that continually records the last X minutes of driving on a loop. If you are involved in an accident this is automatically saved and can be used as evidence.

Yes I think the film is Demolition Man.

Edit. @Drac - I saw that as well. Slightly missing the point that crashing is part of the idea of dodgems.

The sooner cars are self-driving the better (now that they seem determined to take the fun away).

<ducks>

According to the AA it’s a silly idea as Dodgems still crash. 😂

Saw that comment - WTF from the AA!

Generally in favour but just heard an argument against: people won’t buy new cars.

I bet they will, especially as everyone and their dog is "buying" their new cars on a lease or PCP anyway. What would the middle-class suburbia neighbours think if you were caught driving a 5 year old BMW/Audi/Merc SUV?!

it's the push toward autonomous vehicles that's driving this (no pun intended 😉 ). It just makes sense, no surprises, no incentives, makes it safer and easier to code.

Think how much more dangerous dodgems would be if they were all unlimted? Owned by his own argument there I think. Pretty sure dodgems has a low fatality rate.

@mogrips – I don’t think the proposed data recorder is full on space shuttle style telemetry 😃 but something like the flight data recorder that continually records the last X minutes of driving on a loop. If you are involved in an accident this is automatically saved and can be used as evidence.

Given data storage and transmission is cheap and getting cheaper it wouldn't take much to black box your car for a decent amount of time, one of the lads in the office has a black box fitted for insurance, as he says you just chill it bit more it's saving you cash. Probably the sort of generational change that will make this stuff work

So your argument is that if you have enough money, you're allowed to drive like a cock? Do you think the driver of a £75,000 Range Rover is going to be particularly bothered about an extra £1 for tailgating...

This is click bait stuff anyway. An enormous amount of work needs to be done before this can be rolled out and enforced.

1. The camera doesn't always see the speed limit sign - so you could go too fast - or the NSL sign, meaning you're stuck at 30mph until GPS data overrides.

2. Mapping data constantly changes.

3. Illegal temporary speed limits put in by utility companies working on the road.

4. What happens when you drive under a motorway gantry that's showing | 20 | 30 | 50 | 60 |?

5. Faulty managed motorway sections where the limit isn't formally removed. You could potentially argue that this invalidates speed limits across hundreds of miles...

6. Faulty ganties where they're randomly set at 20mph in the middle of the night

7. (Biggest problem) Driving down main roads the camera occasionally sees signs for side roads with a lower limit and automatically applies them.

So I wouldn't be worried about this being forced on you for another 10 years or so.

Presumably it will need to be able to read road signs? In that case how long you think before some people start putting up fake signs to trick the systems? "I think 15mph is plenty through MY village..."

What would the middle-class suburbia neighbours think if you were caught driving a 5 year old BMW/Audi/Merc SUV?!

I imagine there would be a premium for a 'classic' Audi without all the latest speed and tailgating restricting technology.

"The Department for Transport said the system would also apply in the UK, despite Brexit".

"The car will not brake automatically when the speed limit is reduced, but will give the driver a visual warning instead. It is the driver's responsibility to obey the warning".

As a car loving cyclist I think it is depressing. I think the sanitising of cars is bad news. I agree with road safety and think more needs to be done about people driving whilst on the phone, but not limiting cars speed. Won't be long before cars are driving themselves..hang on..

It's not a bad idea. All these people that say you need to be able to accelerate out of trouble are mostly talking tosh. By the same rationale you can break out of trouble as well.

The main issue with crashes is the speed differential. If we're all travelling at 70mph then the likelihood of someone slamming into traffic because they're doing 90mph is reduced. I travel on the M1 regularly and find the sections with the managed speed limits quite relaxing as the majority of people are going roughly the same speed.

Obviously the outcome of a crash where all vehicles are travelling at 70mph is going to be more significant than a crash where everyone is traveling 30mph.

Wonder what the aftermarket tuning boxes will do when there's no longer the option to disable it. Quite a few already remove the notional 155mph limit on some cars.

@Flaperon - an ex-work colleague is in the IAM and they'd had a driver sent round for assessment. The assessor couldn't understand why the driver was ignoring 30mph signs and the like. It turned out they relied on their GPS to inform them of the speed limits!

Not sure about point 3, I've not seen any myself, utility companies have to get permission to work on the carriageway so there'd be limits (sic) applied at the same time.

I'm going to show my ignorance now because it could already be proposed; I'd prefer a mandatory system that maintained a safe gap from the vehicle in front, now that would be a game-changer
Intelligent Speed Assistance could be used to help traffic to flow better on congested roads with variable speed limits
As with any list of proposals there are positives, but some (e.g. drowsiness and distraction monitoring and detection) seem designed to get motorists to push themselves into a more dangerous state while blaming the manufacturer, "But the system says that I'm not drowsy", rather than producing thinking drivers, which is the core problem
EDIT: I should include the list...linky

I think a system where cars have maintained gaps between them is a great idea as above.

I agree with road safety and think more needs to be done about people driving whilst on the phone, but not limiting cars speed.

Ok so people are on phones, and chatting, and not concentrating, which cause accidents. Would you rather they were not concentrating at 70mph or at 85mph?

WI don’t think the proposed data recorder is full on space shuttle style telemetry 😃 but something like the flight data recorder that continually records the last X minutes of driving on a loop. If you are involved in an accident this is automatically saved and can be used as evidence.

Like my £50 dashcam then?

I cannot see the problem myself. What possible argument can there be for breaking the law on this ( apart from its fun?)

Unsurprisingly I am in favour of the new EU measures.

However, it is breakfast time and by the time I’ve gone and fetched it, scoffed it and drank coffee we will all have gone meltdown mode and the thread increase to 44pages in the next 20mins.

I will enjoy the bickering and moaning.

Please, carry on. I’m in for the long haul 🤠

martinhutch

Member
I imagine there would be a premium for a ‘classic’ Audi without all the latest speed and tailgating restricting technology.

Middle class Mum does not care for such things.

one of the lads in the office has a black box fitted for insurance, as he says you just chill it bit more it’s saving you cash.

Except in a lot of cases, mine included, insurance premiums are actually higher for a black box policy than without, £670 vs £440 for me, the £670 went up when I declared the modifications on my car, the £440 included them.

I disagree with speed limiters but for personal reasons only, do agree that as speed is a factor in about a quarter of road fatalities in the UK it 'may' reduce the number of fatalities.

@perchypanther - yes. I don't have a dashcam so wasn't sure if it was done automatically or you had to press a button to save the data.

Ooh, use of mobiles. Maybe there could be a sensor to record that as well.

I cannot see the problem myself. What possible argument can there be for breaking the law on this ( apart from its fun?)

I agree, but I also think that we risk promoting driving where we don't have to think, which seems to fly in the face of the EUs HERMES (2007) and Goals for Driver Education projects

Except in a lot of cases, mine included, insurance premiums are actually higher for a black box policy than without, £670 vs £440 for me, the £670 went up when I declared the modifications on my car, the £440 included them.

Most or yours? For most young people it's being used as a cheaper way in.

I already have this technology installed in my car, she's called Mrs H 😉

speed limitation in built up areas might be good and no limiters but monitoring/punishment for bad driving on dual carriageways/motorways would be better.

The thought of limitation on motorways sounds scary as the number of times you often end up in a lane that is clogged up with traffic and you don't actually have a reasonable braking distance, often because people keep pulling in to take your braking distance away.

In those situations I will choose to go into an overtaking lane just to get more braking distance, even if it means that I might be speeding, because basically it is a lot safer.

Better to have punishment for tailgating and general bad driving on those roads - maybe with unmarked cars filming. Marked cars just cause more problems and congestion.

Wouldn't it just be cheaper to fit all new cars with a big sign on the roof that flashes the word "COCK" as soon as you exceed the limit? Would make life amusing around these Lancashire mill towns where there's a certain preference for race-tuned Audis, BMWs and Mercs being driven illegally.

Once people get the hang of smart monitored motorways traffic flow seems a lot better, less tailgating as there is nowhere to go and no point to it.

I think it's excellent news, the tech is there and we have speed limits for a reason. Ultimately it'll save lives.

Don't the adaptive cruise control systems automatically slow you down if you get too close to the vehicle in front? I seem to remember it being mentioned in some thread or other. A similar system could sound an alarm if you started to tailgate in the same way that you get an alarm if you don't fit the seat belt when sat in a front seat.

What would the middle-class suburbia neighbours think if you were caught driving a 5 year old BMW/Audi/Merc SUV?!

Lord knows what they think of my 20 year relic and the others on this forum that drive bangers with expensive bikes in/on them. No **** 'em

Ok, breakfast over. I’m now full.

As mentioned I am in favour of these black box type of vehicle speed logging and restriction. I’m also in favour of the added driver aids that have been proposed, lane change assist, sleep/wake attention methods and post crash/collision analysis.

I am not actually that draconian to apply the new tech to older vehicles, that IMO is placing the onus to fund such a measure on people who bought cars without such aids and the tech would be onerous enough to fit and at great cost.

I do have a couple of views on implementation:

• All commercial vehicles first, including emergency service and government owned/funded including military. All commercial vehicles employed in the carry of passengers (taxis/minibuses etc.) All commercial vehicles carrying animals and goods.
• Then JLR vehicles, afterall they’re by far the worst drivers on the road so they should be the first manufacturer to be hit with the implementation. I’d be rather delighted to see Mr & Mrs M&S turn into a pork chop in a blender as they try to bully their way to the garden center at parsec 1 on a Sunday morning whilst normal folk go about ferrying kids to football and ballet.
• All VW Passat vehicles, obviously this will annoy the many yet satisfy the conscientious drivers amongst us. Then Skodas, then Vauxhalls. The remaining vehicles can be phased out in a more sedate manner.

Obviously I am taking the piss here in the last two, but it would counter the bullying by vehicles that is prevalent in that market segment.

• Then as part of the roll out we remove speed cameras on all main roads and dual carriageways, then motorways. Then implement a blanket 20mph speed limit in all urban areas where it is currently a 30mph limit, then those 40mph limits down to 30mph, then 50mph limits to 60mph and motorways from 70mph to 85mph. Unrestricted roads where the NSL signs are placed they should be 40mph.
• After implementation every car that has one fitted, and is dealer serviced, a data wipe of the information held should be cleared down after a 3mth post wipe. There is no redeemable benefit to holding the data and the data should not be used for any other purpose than claims for accidents. Every new car that isn’t dealer serviced should be taken to a dealership for the data wipe, if the wipe hasn’t been done in that 3mth period the car becomes unusable until the black box has had a reset.
• Driver health, currently this is DVLA/Doctor or Court driven. I do not want the black boxes to be part in that chain, to log or retrieve any driver patterns of behaviour other than limit speeding or for post crash investigation.

We only have ourselves to blame for the proposals, afterall humans are supposed to be in charge of their own destiny yet we all have proven that we’re not capable of looking after ourselves or others so someone else/somebody else is left to take control.

HTH’s, I shall watch with interest the ensuing arguments.

🤣🧟‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I do worry about this kind of half way house to autonomous driving, I could imagine myself losing concentration more easily in scenarios where some of my controls were taken away but I was still expected to respond in emergency situations. I would much rather full automation where the car does it all and I can just use travel time to read.

As some posters above, the sooner control is taken away from the idiots behind the wheel, the better for everyone.

Once people get the hang of smart monitored motorways traffic flow seems a lot better, less tailgating as there is nowhere to go and no point to it.

IME yes.

Over the last couple of years since “smart” motorways have been Implimented there are far more considerate drivers around, and that stop/start panic you used to see often is far less often now.

I have to say, I have seen more people using thier indicators recently than I have in the previous 4-5years.

Maybe it’s me, but I see far less aggression on the roads than I did 5yrs ago.

Also, this proposal does include motorbikes doesn’t it?

Obvs the driver aids bit is a bit moot, but the speed restrictions must still be able to be applied Shirley??

I think heavy congestion is part of it. People tend to get irate when they think they COULD be going so much faster but something is stopping them. Friday afternoon M4 from Reading westwards is often solid cars in all three lanes, and you can see it stretching out ahead of you, so people tend to just chill cos they know they have no option. It ends up a steady 60mph all moving together. When it opens up, some people speed up to 70, some to 80 or 90 and it gets far worse.

Most or yours? For most young people it’s being used as a cheaper way in.

For young people to an extent it is, as soon as they hit 21 with 3yrs experience 'normal' insurance policies become cheaper, my son was £850 with black box and 6000 miles, insured for £450, no black box and 10k miles. It appears that black boxes are only beneficial from an insurance point of view in the first 3yrs. If having my driving monitored via a black box was beneficial from an insurance perspective then I would consider it otherwise I will continue to make progress as and when my perception of it being safe to do so and the urge takes me.

It was always going to happen eventually and even as someone who enjoys fast cars, I can't really see any downsides.

OK, that's not necessarily true, part of me has concerns about the whole semi-automation problem where people disengage their brains whilst driving. Will people just put their foot flat to the floor on every road and expect to be held at a safe speed?

That aside, it's a feature which will prevent people from breaking the law on a massive scale and subsequently save lives. I think black boxes are a great idea too. Driving poses an inherent risk not only to yourself but to everyone around you. And it's not a question of if these things will be implemented, it's a case of when. It's inevitable.

What if I'm overtaking some pillock who's been doing 40 in the 60 limit & they floor it while I'm along side , blocking me into oncoming traffic? It's a regular occurrence round here. ( Doing 40 in a 60 if the weather's good & there's nothing dangerous about doing the limit is illegal. It's driving without due care & attention. I asked a cop) But it's a good thing for classic sports car sales.🙄

I’d screw a 30mph sign to the back of the car. As soon as someone tried tailgating on the motorway they’d have their speed more than halved.....BINGO! Problem solved!
🤣

What if I’m overtaking some pillock who’s been doing 40 in the 60 limit & they floor it while I’m along side , blocking me into oncoming traffic?

It's probably safer and easier to brake and pull back in behind, in almost all situations, regardless of power?

They are including the option to temporarily override it so that's a moot point anyway.

“The Department for Transport said the system would also apply in the UK, despite Brexit”.

“The car will not brake automatically when the speed limit is reduced, but will give the driver a visual warning instead. It is the driver’s responsibility to obey the warning”.

Already fitted to modern vehicles. 4 years ago I had a van with this warning function. Nice little story to add fuel to EU hate for the Brexity types if you ask me.
‘Bloody EU Controlling my car’

Well post Brexit we'll be able to revitalise the British car building industry. British Leyland will rise phoenix like from the flames. And all the cars we produce won't work, or if working will be incapable of speeding 😆😆😆

Can we have a counter option that forces ditherers to drive at more than 30mph in a 60mph zone!

FWIW - this is a shit idea that will lead to gormless sanitized driving as people take less and less responsibilty behind the wheel.

I'd ban ruddy sat-nav too - force people to read maps and know where the **** they are going.

To be honest all touch screens should be banned too as they just aren't as simple as twiddling a knob or flicking a switch. They force you to take your eyes off the road.

Predictably, this is all over the front page of the Express today, "THE EU TELLING US WHAT TO DO AGAIN" or words to that effect. I read about this a little while ago and my first thought was that this would be the reaction, if nothing else it's really bad timing for us.

One thing that seems to be missed from a lot of the commentary is that the systems, if and when implemented, will have an "off" switch. So the road warriors (and red-tops) needn't get too worried.

Don’t the adaptive cruise control systems automatically slow you down if you get too close to the vehicle in front?

Yeah, mine does. You can set the distance too, so if it's braking too soon or not soon enough you can alter it (and the distance is proportional to speed).

Don’t the adaptive cruise control systems automatically slow you down if you get too close to the vehicle in front? I seem to remember it being mentioned in some thread or other. A similar system could sound an alarm if you started to tailgate in the same way that you get an alarm if you don’t fit the seat belt when sat in a front seat.

yep, had this on a 2012 Golf. Great piece of kit. Only issue was a bunch of morons jumping into the 'gap' left!

I’d screw a 30mph sign to the back of the car. As soon as someone tried tailgating on the motorway they’d have their speed more than halved…..BINGO! Problem solved!
🤣

This is pure genius. Well done that man!

I’d ban ruddy sat-nav too – force people to read maps and know where the **** they are going.

Do maps come with automatic traffic updates which can warn you of an accident ahead and re-route you out of the way?

To be honest all touch screens should be banned too as they just aren’t as simple as twiddling a knob or flicking a switch.

I kind of agree with this to a point. But you soon learn where controls are on a touch-screen, and in any case Android Auto's voice control (and the Apple equivalent) has rendered much of this obsolete. "OK Google, navigate home."

It's very slick these days, all the OEM in-car voice systems I've used have required you to memorise a series of set command words, Google works really well with natural language and is pretty good at deciphering non-perfect requests like if you use old names for places that have been renamed.

force people to read maps

That's a really really stupid idea.

What if I’m overtaking some pillock who’s been doing 40 in the 60 limit & they floor it while I’m along side , blocking me into oncoming traffic?

Don't overtake when there's oncoming traffic? Radical suggestion, I know.

I hope all the divers who feel they won't be able to concentrate with a speed limiter in place can go and tell their local police station that and give them your license for safe keeping 🙂

What if I’m overtaking some pillock who’s been doing 40 in the 60 limit & they floor it while I’m along side , blocking me into oncoming traffic?

You brake?

I see far less aggression on the roads than I did 5yrs ago

You should try driving in southampton - I've stopped commuting by bike because of driving standards falling so much

I think it is a good idea, but, I would rather they skip this stage and just go full speed for automated vehicles. Remove the human error. Would bring so many benefits, so many more than just restricting a speed.

Other thing I don't get, all this talk of cameras reading road signs. Seems a bit 'in the box' thinking. And likley bloody hard to implement to a sufficient standard. If speedlimits are automated there is no need for the outdated concept of a visible sign some form of gps located speed data would be enough....

IMO there has been a polarisation of driving standards with relation to cyclists. the considerate ones obey the 20 mph urban limits and give me more room. the occasional idiots have got worse. Had one today overtake thru a pinch point on a corner with a red traffic light 100m away as I was in primary potion. Utter plonker

see far less aggression on the roads than I did 5yrs ago

You should try driving in southampton

I live 20mins by car from you.

👍

All commercial vehicles first, including emergency service and government owned/funded including military. All commercial vehicles employed in the carry of passengers (taxis/minibuses etc.) All commercial vehicles carrying animals and goods.

All North Yorks County Council minibuses are limited to 60mph, have trackers & Vertus Fleet dashcams installed.

All uk buses since 1985 have speed limiters fitted, set to a max of 100kmh (but can be set lower)
Trucks likewise, but 90kmh.
Newer buses have adaptive cruise fitted too, absolutely fantastic tech, can’t wait til i have it on my car tbh.
I’d say adaptive cruise would be a fantastic safety aid, rather than blanket speed limiters.
And a device that stopped phones from working when the handbrake is off, as most of the poor driving i see is mobile phone related, rather than speed related.
In ontario, there is a ‘Driving Distracted’ law, we need this here imo.

In ontario, there is a ‘Driving Distracted’ law, we need this here imo.

We do, afaik, it's just hard to enforce without investment in police.

Yes we would call it careless driving, they say driving while distracted.
But, as you say, pointless without the police available to enforce it.

Drac. But the other people who've been stuck behind the pillock are in the space I was in. There's nowhere to go, other than Infront of the pillock. 🙄.

Can someone consider all the income loss from speeding fines please. 🤣

We have autonomous driving modes on one of our cars and the speed limit reading system does occasionally get it wrong and incorrectly apply the brakes or speeding up (using the adaptive cruise control). For part autonomous driving I think that the tech isn’t quite there yet. I suspect that this EU directive is just reading signposts and recording speed rather than more complex tech. I generally approve of this but I’d like to see tech work better before it’s utilised widely.

But the other people who’ve been stuck behind the pillock are in the space I was in. There’s nowhere to go, other than Infront of the pillock

Just stop, if you have to. You stop, they stop, everyone lives. You floor it to beat the other person flooring it towards oncoming traffic, one error of judgement and everyone dies.

Drac. But the other people who’ve been stuck behind the pillock are in the space I was in. There’s nowhere to go, other than Infront of the pillock. 🙄

Sorry I’m not in your story so didn’t know what had happened. Maybe don’t be a prick and overtake into on coming traffic.

There is a tracker fitted to my co car and an email from head office saying speeding is considered a disciplinary offence, a bit big brotherish but its an effective method of limiting the use of my right foot...

Its interesting that if its was implemented well (which I am sceptical about) its hard to argue against.

However I have to say that of all the problems that face the people of the EU and the UK for that matter. Is this really something that is worth spending the money, time and effort putting into place when there are other issues that would make life more most people a lot better.

I assume in the first instance it will be like ABS where its mandatory for all new cars to be fitted with it as apposed for to be mandatory for it to be switched on.

A feature I could switch on when I want that auto limits my speed to the limit would be great. I would probably pay for that option on the van. However I am not convinced making it mandatory is a so important it needs legislating for.

A feature I could switch on when I want that auto limits my speed to the limit would be great. I would probably pay for that option on the van. However I am not convinced making it mandatory is a so important it needs legislating for.

Given you think it's a good idea but want to turn it off so you can ignore limits probably reinforce why it should be legislated. If we only ever did stuff on the biggest issues of the day we would be stuck in committee ranking the issues.

There is a tracker fitted to my co car and an email from head office saying speeding is considered a disciplinary offence, a bit big brotherish but its an effective method of limiting the use of my right foot…

Yep few places see it as a wilful disregard for a safety instruction, sort of thing that would get you sacked in a factory.

Last hire car I had was fitted with a limit option and cruise, the cruise on the mway was used, elsewhere the limiter made more sense.

But the other people who’ve been stuck behind the pillock

You overtake into oncoming traffic and yet someone else is “the pollock”?

Something fishy about this.

A feature I could switch on when I want that auto limits my speed to the limit would be great.

You're in luck my friend