[Closed] End Halal petition

'We've spruced it up very well'

Not really. Just closed our eyes. I'd urge all of us to watch these videos before commenting further. Both are terribly sad, barbaric and reprehensible to me. It puts me off my bacon so much that (following this thread) I am (seriously) going to have to do something about it. I hate (my own) hypocrisy, it weakens me. Reading this thread today was just the boot up the arse I needed. And this This 'Us' vs Muslims' sideshow is rotten from the ground up. A sideshow from both ends of the spectrum. There is either a farming-transit-slaughter standard or there isn't. If the abbatoir standard is too low/and or unenforced then abuse is pretty much guaranteed. Food animal rearing, transport and slaughter is still light years away from, say, putting yr pet to sleep. And yes every pig is intelligent and emotional just like Fido. They are mammals. Factory-farming is cruel by definition. Would you let your dog suffer this..?

Anyway:

(NSFW/bacon sandwich/kebab lovers):

(Mostly) Stunning:

Not stunning:

*edit

Habitat destruction and over population are our two biggest crimes against animals as a whole

Agreed, but wait - so we address that as well. Or use it simply to excuse further intense cruelty in farming/slaughter? That's like saying 'ha, who cares about drunken abuse/spouse-beating - when you work with holocausts the old drunk seems fairly sprucey by comparison. Actually the biggest crime against humans is over-population and displacement ... and any do-gooder who volunteers to help tackle domestic violence would be better of killing themselves if they want to help humanity's population crisis...' 🙄

true that if we were transporting humans across the country to kill/slaughter them in an industrial setting by
1) stunning them with a bolt gun in lines one after the other then killing them or
2) slitting their throats to let them bleed to death

I very much doubt the debate would be about the cruelty of 2 compared to 1

After that you have to consider the whole thing.. how they are raised, transported and then finally the last seconds they are killed.

If you're only worried about HOW they are killed that is just an excuse for ignoring the rest.
From my human perspective... would I want to be a deer wandering about and suddenly get shot and take a minute to die or spend my whole life in a farm being penned, having my babies taken away for slaughter... etc. I'll go with living a life in the forest and one day an arrow hits that big bullseye...over a lifetime of captivity and mistreatment.

having my babies taken away for slaughter

Won’t somebody please think of the children.

Halal meat is generally stunned first with a small percentage that isn’t. If we must kill them make it as humane as possible and yes give them as best life as possible.

For a full bingo card can someone please post pictures of burning orang-u-tans and deforestion to make way for all of that palm oil to feed all these veggies/vegans?

Because not only do veggies/vegans customarily choose non-sustainably sourced food, we all know that non-veggies mostly do. And at least omnivores grow their own palm oil/coconuts/sugar cane etc.

In fact there must be a poorly-constructed and generalizing counter-argument for every inch of progress/depravity (delete as politically inclined) that we make in this world...

Animal welfare from birth up until slaughter is the more important issue. Bit contradicting but we're omnivores as a species and always will eat meat.

I just tend to find that most people getting on their high horse about these issues haven't considered the rank hypocrisy in their own stance. At least somebody not giving a shit about the source of the meat OR the two veg they choose to eat is being consistent.

Intent plays a part in ethical slaughter too. Any industrial scale system is going to be fallible. What's important is that the intention is to treat animals as kindly and as humanely as possible right to the end. If animals are being neglected or abused as part of that system then that's different but it's naive to expect a 100% perfect system.

Top post

You’re not going to win that argument Malvern-Rider you’ll struggle to find a vegan that supports the palm oil trade.

Anyway lets just stick to boiling lobsters alive as well

That's just wrong.

The 2 I've caught by rod & line, (both accidental/over minimum size limit/not berried hens), & all the live crab I've bought have all been put in the freezer for 3 hours before boiling.

I just tend to find that most people [s]getting on their high horse[/s] giving a shit about these issues haven't considered the rank hypocrisy in their own stance, and while I don't have the figures for this here it is. At least somebody [i]not[/i] giving a shit about the source of the meat OR the two veg they choose to eat is being consistent.

ftfy.

[sarcasm]Also - best argument ever for not giving a shit. If you don't give a shit then you are at least less unpleasant than that hypocrite who does. Because as we all know, the feeling of hypocrisy never leads to self-change. Whereas never giving a shit is laudable in nearly every case as it is unchanging, and, well - kind of 'pure' feeling.[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]Also - best argument ever for not giving a shit. If you don't give a shit then you are at least less unpleasant than that hypocrite who does. Because as we all know, the feeling of hypocrisy never leads to self-change. Whereas never giving a shit is laudable in nearly every case as it is unchanging, and, well - kind of 'pure' feeling.[/sarcasm]

Whoaaa, that's given me a badder head than thinking bout the universe!

Top post

It's not though, is it? Not the second part at least. If we naively assume for a moment that ethical slaughter can exist, then the system not being perfect is :
A. Justification to keep funding it
B. Reason to stop buying into it

Surely B takes only a little more effort.

Slaughter without stunning it is [b]immoral[/b] and it should be illegal for everyone, no matter the strength or source of their opinions.

Obscuring that fact with [b]fluff about race, religion and prejudice [/b]is self defeating and dishonest.

Erm...

As a meat eater with no intention of stopping I would prefer the meat I consume not to have had a life described in this thread and am happy to pay more in the hope that the poor little buggers I munch didn't suffer unduly. Don't particularly like the idea of halal or kosher slaughtering but would still eat both and won't be signing any thinly veiled racist poll as virtually every takeaway in town displays the halal badge and on the odd occasion I order in the food is lovely.

I try treat all live animals I come in to contact with respect and usually affection so the soft side of me hopes others do too and any move to increase the conditions for meat stock would get my approval.

On another note.... Have I missed something as to why being a vegan has suddenly become very popular? I take it one of the 'celebrities' my wife insists on following has decided it's a good idea? I understand people wanting to be a veggie but can not see the point of being a vegan outside jumping on the current bandwagon (apologies to those who have been eating newspaper and slippers for years).

Bob_summers
I don't think a system of high enough capacity to feed the current demand for meat can be 100% perfect. Machines break down and people make mistakes.
Even a home producer of livestock will end up with stock dying in a less than 100% perfect manner. Crows pecking out lambs eyes for example.

Not buying a pack of bacon because 1 pig out of 150,000 takes five minutes to die instead of 0.5 would be naive not discerning.

Can I say every animal I've killed died instantly? No. But I sleep at night because that was always my utmost intention.

ransos
Yeah whatever 🙂

understand people wanting to be a veggie but can not see the point of being a vegan

[url= https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan ]GIYF[/url]

We can all point to celebrity that kills animals/goes vegan for fashion. But that just stymies debate and makes us feel good in apathy.

When it's so easy not to buy that pack of bacon, Crosshair, you're probably in the first group you mentioned - those who don't give a shit. Which is fine, at least it's honest.

GIYF

Yes, I understand all that but it just seems to be so hugely ott. Avoid honey? Ffs.

It's in fashion though so whoopy do.

Ah, I see where this is going. Thought it was a real question.

It's in fashion though so whoopy do.

Any instance of veganism in a meat-obsesssed culture will surely be referred to as 'fashionable' by those who don't know any other reason why a person might choose veganism?

The question was. Your quote wasn't a question.

But I do give a shit. I care that the system is as good as it can be but also recognise that it cannot be perfect.

I've never met anybody who's put enough research into the provenance of their own diet to gain the moral high ground over the average British meat eater.

The question was.

Apparently not, ie

Yes, I understand all that

It was a rhetorical setup for you to call it 'OTT'.

The 2 I've caught by rod & line, (both accidental/over minimum size limit/not berried hens), & all the live crab I've bought have all been put in the freezer for 3 hours before boiling.

No need for moral high ground. Concerned about animal suffering at the hand of industrial meat and dairy production?
Don't buy it.

Or... justify it because dormice etc are killed when harvesting crops and nothing can be 100% perfect.

I've never met anybody who's put enough research into the provenance of their own diet to gain the moral high ground over the average British meat eater.

if they (sic) are doing it simply for diet/health reasons alone, not for personal ethics regarding animal welfare and the environment - then why would it be a 'moral high ground' issue?

I think that assuming/conferring 'moral high ground' is contentious and derailing in such a debate, ie divisive rhetoric?

Same goes for the 'Good honest Bacon vs Halal' 'debate'. Refer to the videos I posted. Which animals are in dire terror/distress? And that's not including the transport/waiting to be slaughtered issues.

Yeh basically, become a vegan or sit back down and adress yourself.

My girlfriends cat is a merciless killing and torture machine, maybe I should kill the cat to end the suffering of the shrew.

ahm oot. (Taps out)

Me too. Those having trouble with some very basic concepts, follow Vegan Sidekick (facebook and all the usual sites).

[img] [/img]

Well that is kind of a point Bob_Summer is it not. I've spent enough hours watching a combine header to see what goes in one let alone the massacre left behind as the Kites and Buzzards mop up the suddenly exposed survivors! All so a few vegans can not eat a nice tasty Rasher 😆

It becomes a moral high ground issue when they choose to preach to others and infer that their solution is somehow morally more acceptable, righteous or less impactful. You have to go a long way off grid from the modern world to wash the blood from your hands I'm afraid.

The 2 I've caught by rod & line, (both accidental/over minimum size limit/not berried hens), & all the live crab I've bought have all been put in the freezer for 3 hours before boiling.

That is just awful.

In what way is it awful?

Thanks Bob! That picture nicely surmises the kind of smug but ignorant and naive rationale employed by your average vegan fantasist 😆

In what way is it awful?

They lose flavour and tend to be tough

Took 5 pages this time... 🙄

They lose flavour and tend to be tough

What's your address? I'll send you a pot & you can decide?
Bought live at £2.60 a kilo from Hendon fish quay, Sunderland last Wednesday.

How TF can cooked & dressed crab be tough??

Well, the toughness was in reference to lobster and with both, especially cooked live, I would only really eat in shell, rather than dressed. I think something about the chilling process damages the cell walls. Or it may be the cooking from cold which messes with the steaming.

I would only really eat in shell, rather than dressed. I think something about the chilling process damages the cell walls. Or it may be the cooking from cold which messes with the steaming.

So Charlie,

I think something about the chilling process damages the cell walls.

&

Or it may be the cooking from cold which messes with the steaming.

So in actual fact....you've no idea?

Have you ever in your life cooked a lobster or crab & eaten it?

Wer'e digressing & It's my fault.

ransos
Yeah whatever

So in actual fact....you've no idea?

Have you ever in your life cooked a lobster or crab & eaten it?

Wer'e digressing & It's my fault.

What? I know the result but not the mechanism. Two possibles are suggested. Because I don't know why cooking from cold makes it less tasty and less tender you deduce that I have never cooked live crab and lobster?

So in actual fact....you've no idea

I don't get it

Bloody Nora Charlie,

You said..'I think something about the chilling process damages the cell walls'. If you only think it, then you don't know.

Then, 'or it may be the cooking from cold that messes with the steaming'

If it may, then it may not.

Also, (just to be pedantic) I didn't deduce if you'd cooked & eaten crab/lobster, I asked. As in...

Have you ever in your life cooked a lobster or crab & eaten it?

I'm still willing to let you have a pot of mine. 8)

Be quick though, I've only got 6 left. 😆 (not halal though)

alvern Rider - Member
The question was.
Apparently not, ie

Yes, I understand all that
It was a rhetorical setup for you to call it 'OTT'.

Nope, the question was why it's suddenly become fashionable. My brother was vegan years ago us no one took any notice. It has become a thing now. Carry on with your self righteous nonsense though, it feeds the forum.

Six pages whilst I've been asleep and still going strong...

Six pages whilst I've been asleep and still going strong...

We've digressed though! 😛

I've learned so much about lobster and crab preparation it makes me wish I wasn't a self righteous, vegetarian, lefty, Muslim loving, fieldmouse murdering, free speech hating follower of dietary fashions.

Thanks TurnerGuy, I've signed it.
That barbaric so called religious slaughter has no place in our society.
Disgusting.