Asking for a friend.
Situation: Lad in his late 20s, changed jobs a couple of months ago so still on probation. Has diagnosed depression/anxiety and undiagnosed but likely autistic spectrum.
There's been a number of incidents and assorted issues. For starters the role isn't what was advertised. It sounds like a toxic culture, he's had coworkers (maybe managers?) screaming in his face for messing up an experiment when it turned out that the machine was calibrated incorrectly and the previous user didn't complete paperwork, or something like that.
He's been off work for few days with a stinking cold, now he's in a position where he doesn't want to return due in no small part to work-related stress and workplace bullying. He's been to the doctor who has signed him off for three weeks. Work's response is that they're not going to pay him for, and I quote, "something as silly as mental health issues." They're now making noises about dismissing him.
He and his partner started their first mortgage like a fortnight ago. She's on the ceiling because she's a Worst Case Scenario girl but the fact is that he can't afford to be out of work for any length of time.
It's highly likely that he's going to call me in the imminent future for advice. Whilst I have plenty of opinions, I don't quite know what to say to him.
Any words of wisdom greatly appreciated.
(Oh, my partner's told him to start keeping a record of everything.)
When you say 'he doesn't want to go back', then are you/he just disputing the three weeks sick pay (which would just be £360 SSP for that time - unless his contract says differently).
And would his employer be reasonably expected to know about his medical conditions (this can have a bearing on outcomes).
At less than 2 years service there is no recourse to a tribunal unless its an unfair dismissal because of a protected characteristic ie race, pregnancy, disability etc
Depends on what his contract says about sick pay? contractual, discretionary or none - he will be entitled to SSP anyway I think
I suspect he is out of luck. His mental health issues probably do not amount to a disability but is impacting on his ability to work. He may well be sacked as incapable of doing the job. I assume he is still on probabtion?
What does his union say?
Check TUC site for guidance
Is he in a union?
He needs proper advice, union, CAB, solicitor, etc and fast.
X with TJ
I do not know how much was disclosed up front. If I were to guess it would seem unlikely, certainly for undiagnosed conditions.
I must stress, much of what I know at this point is second (third?) hand information. He's talking to someone else who is talking to me.
Also, if it is third-hand information, how sure can we be that the employer actually said "something as silly as mental health issues."
At less than 2 years service there is no recourse to a tribunal unless its an unfair dismissal because of a protected characteristic ie race, pregnancy, disability etc
This. Unfortunately there's almost no comeback in the first 2 years (this may be about to change to 6 months) of employment. His employer can legally just say thank you and goodnight and as long he's paid for the work he's done then they're safe.
Crap though it is, going on sick in his first couple of months would make some companies part ways. They'll already be making "is this guy worth the hassle" calculations.
To emphasis, not saying this is good or ethical, but I believe it is legal.
He and his partner started their first mortgage like a fortnight ago. She's on the ceiling because she's a Worst Case Scenario girl but the fact is that he can't afford to be out of work for any length of time.
Realistically, he needs to start looking for another job ASAP and jump before he is pushed. They will try to dismiss him, I'm sure.
He has no protection from dismissal except for protected characteristics, and if they sack him for performance issues, I can't see him establishing his mental health as a disability at tribunal, or having the luxury of time and funds to do so. His immediate practical problem is keeping his mortgage serviced.
If the toxic workplace is the main source of his stress-related mental health issues, he should be casting his net around for something else already, dismissal threat or not.
He will be entitled to SSP. If they are refusing to pay that and instead just terminating then they are exposing themselves to a claim - but who would want to work somewhere people scream in your face or respond this way! MH issues, including depression and anxiety absolutely can fall under the definition of a protected characteristic, but frankly the effort and fight required to prove that and the payout if you did wouldn’t justify the stress, hassle and aggravation. Does the house insurance on his new mortgage come with legal cover - sort of thing where are lawyers letter highlighting the potential discrimination case might just make them ask how much to make him go away.
If I was advising him I’d tell him to put his effort into finding a new job (but see what he can get out of them on the way out the door - stuff in writing will increase his chances, print emails, take screenshots etc).
Oh, and if he’s doing lab work unless it’s improved a lot - he can probably earn similar money in far less skilled jobs; perhaps not mentally stimulating but covers the mortgage.
The right answer for the here and now, has been said.
Look for another job now, they’ll dismiss him.
He’s less than two years so very little protection, unless they’ve written anything it’ll be he said she said. They’ll just say performance related and we’re letting you go.
Fighting that would be a a waste of time, money and energy.
Find a new job.
how sure can we be
How sure can you be, not very. How sure can I be, I have little reason to doubt it.
I'm just trying to get ducks in a row here before I get a phone call.
Realistically, he needs to start looking for another job ASAP and jump before he is pushed. They will try to dismiss him, I'm sure.
He's talking about resigning before he's kicked. Are there any pros/cons to one over the other?
Does the house insurance on his new mortgage come with legal cover - sort of thing where are lawyers letter highlighting the potential discrimination case might just make them ask how much to make him go away.
Ooh that's a really good thought. Thank you.
Most people have taken a job that turns out to be not as described and unsuitable. I would agree with the others that say find something else asap. Even if you are unfairly dismissed from a job you have been in for years and you "win" at an industrial tribunal it is very stressful.
Where was he working before? Any chance of going back there if it was ok?
To the suggestions of finding another job might I add the word de-escalate.
Not sure how length of service affects it. But when I've had (external) occupational health assessments when I've been off with anxiety and depression I've been pleasantly surprised to find they include a note to say they feel my condition would be a disability under the DDA.
So the bastards can't sack me even if I wanted them to!
He's talking about resigning before he's kicked. Are there any pros/cons to one over the other?
Depends what sort of contract he's on, salary/zero hours etc. He should still accrue SSP over the next three weeks. If he resigns now the money stops coming in almost immediately. I imagine he won't be using them as a reference, or even mentioning them to a prospective new employer. If he is capable, I suppose he could be showing willing, maybe even returning to work if he feels he can, while all the time looking for something new, to extend the period in which he's getting paid.
Very often once you accept that you're leaving, it's less stressful, and you can focus on trying to set the terms of your departure to suit your needs.
Where was he working before? Any chance of going back there if it was ok?
The problem here is they moved (hence, mortgage) so even if he could and wanted to it would be a pain in the arse commute wise.
Not sure how length of service affects it. But when I've had (external) occupational health assessments when I've been off with anxiety and depression I've been pleasantly surprised to find they include a note to say they feel my condition would be a disability under the DDA.
Mental health issues can be considered a disability but not always.
He's talking about resigning before he's kicked. Are there any pros/cons to one over the other?
Being sacked may be the better option if any benefit is needed. Resigning can be an restriction on benefit claims.