Years back we hired a holiday car with an electric handbrake. It was bloody awful. Pulling away on a hill fried my brain and vowed never to have a car with one.
Fast forward and we are after a bangernomics ev.
Contenders are Leaf ,Peugeot Ion and BMW i3.
Only the Peugeot has a normal handbrake.
Will an e brake be easier in an auto ev?
How do you gently let the handbrake off when entering a main road from a hill start?
They are amazing. In an ice you have to be a bit quicker bringing the initial part of the clutch up on a hill start to 'catch' it. Gets you the first time but then you adapt. In an EV you just gently stroke the accelerator (often just with toes), this engages the drive chain and disengages the hand brake in one smooth movement.
There is no gentle release as you don't need it.
Pretty sure anything with an electric handbrake will have hill start assist so you don't actually use the handbrake to pull away on hills as it will hold the brake on untill you've started releasing the clutch to pull away. Even cars with mechanical hand brakes from 15 years ago had this feature.
Every car I've driven with an electric handbrake, you just drive and the handbrake automatically disengages. So actually easier than a manual handbrake.
They are great (with the caveat that the joy of childish handbrake turns has been removed)
Yep, just start driving and it disengages. Hill start / auto hold in normal stop-start driving, handbrake otherwise.
It was a bit of a shock getting into a fully manual car the other day after being in a fully automated one a week before! I tried to pull away from parked wondering why it wasn't moving then noticed the manual handbrake lever. 🤣
Maybe my holiday was ruined by not knowing it self disengaged!
Anyway that opens our car choice up. Thanks
I have not used that method of pulling off from a hill since the day I passed my test !
But as above -anything with an e brake will have hill assist. Hell even the Peugeot with it's mechanical hand brake will likely have it - my 2015 with mechanical hand brake has it.
Meanwhile the electric car has a creep mode that moves it forwards/backwards as appropriate when you take the foot of the brake so it won't roll either.
There is normally an auto hold button next to the button for manual operation of the electric hand brake. As long as this is lit then you just forget about it. Sometimes when you get the car back from MOT it will have been disengaged.
Just noticed . A Peugeot ion..... Are you sure about that...... Are you really sure about that?
Hyundai EV, and I don't honestly know what mine has in terms of names, it just works.
I have a P mode gear selector, that stops it moving until I select D or R and press the pedal
I have a P handbrake thing, that can be selected in any of the drive modes. I think this is the handbrake, it means I don't move even if the car's in D, until I press the pedal and then it disengages. This is different to my wife's F500 that doesn't disengage until you turn it off. But even that I don't think is strictly true, if you press hard on the pedal while in D then I think hers turns off as well.
And then there's autohold, which I use sometimes. On that if you come to a dead stop then you have to press the pedal to move again, albeit gently, so it's used in eg: a queue to the lights, where you'll move a distance and then wait for the next go on the sequence. It means I don't need to keep foot on brake or use either of the Ps above. But other times, if I'm just crawling along in traffic but not actually stopping I won't have that on because then I can either just use the footbrake off and on to regulate, or turn on the 20mph autodistance cruise control* that will do that for me. That last one holds you if you come to a dead halt and you have to input to move again, but the input can be a press on the cruise button so your legs don't need to move.
So to the OP. On a hill, I just don't know. I drive up to the junction or whatever, stop on the footbrake until clear, press on the accelerator and it drives away. No more thought than that. If you're really concerned I'd suggest doing some test drives as not all cars are exactly the same, but I suspect you're overthinking** about it given the difference with a manual ICE vs even an auto ICE and the instant 'go-ness' of an EV. My wife's a luddite, and when we got mine and went out in it for the first time spent precisely 93 seconds going 'Ahhhh, I'll never get the hang of this' before getting the hang of it and never even thinking about it again.
* was a meh function when I bought it, very quickly (after I learned to trust it) is amazingly useful given I drive up the A3 and around the M25 in the morning, and I can sit in a queue crawling along, press the cruise every so often, and the car does all the rest.
** says me writing an essay that has taken 10 times longer than it'll take you to realise there isn't an issue once you try it.
Heh, if you ever get in my Polestar your brain might wobble.... No on button. Never ever touch the handbrake - arrive, open door = handbrake goes on. Arrive to stop, press footbrake firmly for a couple of seconds while stationary = handbrake on. Any driving = auto hold, auto off... Magic I tell thee, magic.
Arrive to stop, press footbrake firmly for a couple of seconds while stationary
Why? I haven't touched the handbrake button in our renault. Stop get out. Handbrake just knows.
How do you gently let the handbrake off when entering a main road from a hill start?
You only let the handbrake "off" for a hiilstart, although it might feel gradual because of the lever movement.
Commercial vehicles with air brakes have been doing this for decades
Maybe my holiday was ruined by not knowing it self disengaged!
Anyway that opens our car choice up. Thanks
This won't apply to the EV, but for future manual car hire you can treat a manual electric handbrake "button", if it has one, like a handbrake lever.
Some manual cars are a bit sensitive and can release the handbrake too early, in response to the bite-point. This is a problem if you're anticipating a gap in traffic.
It takes a bit of getting your head around, but hold the button up until you've got the bite-point on the clutch and your gap, then just release the button and the auto-release will take over.
Why? I haven't touched the handbrake button in our renault. Stop get out. Handbrake just knows.
Great if your not getting out the car.
We have 2 VWs in our household. A Passat (auto) and a Golf (manual). Both have electric parking brake: comes on when you're stationary, disengages when you move off. Faultless, on any slope.
But I understand where Zippykona is coming from. About 10 years ago I hired a Peugeot in Spain with manual gearbox and electric parking brake. We were staying in Tarifa which has steep streets and cars parking about 6" from each other. Touch the clutch and away it went. You needed three legs to control the thing. Or let it come to rest gently against the car in front. Highly stressful.
Meanwhile the electric car has a creep mode that moves it forwards/backwards as appropriate when you take the foot of the brake so it won't roll either
Just like many automatics. Awful setting. ‘Hold’ is preferred in our house.
Not sure awful is the word your looking for it's different to what your used to but it's fine enough having had both hold and creep im very indifferent to either or.
Both have electric parking brake: comes on when you're stationary, disengages when you move off. Faultless, on any slope.
It may just be how you've written it or things have changed since my 2019 auto VAG car.
For the OP most VAG ICE cars and I assume many other makes tend to have all of.
Auto-hold ((A))
This retains the last brake pressure applied (through the ABS system iirc). This isn't a parking/handbrake, it's designed for use while the car is running.
I dislike it in my auto VAG because it seems to have a bit of a lumpy interaction with the start/stop system under some conditions. Spends most of its time "off" for me. For balance my next door neighbour has it permanently on in her VW (a very odd chance conversation a few weeks back!).
Hill start assist
This senses a gradient and holds the brakes on for a few seconds when you release the brake pedal regardless of whether you have auto hold on or not (our 2012 manual Focus has this, it's been in many cars for years). This gives you time to clutch up / squeeze throttle and pull away.
It's not much cop with a heavy trailer for that I use the auto-hold or main parking brake.
Parking brake (P)
This winds the brakes on hard with a motor and they're held solidly like that indefinitely.
Apply manually, switch off by hand or auto releases at correct torque to move away (but only if your seatbelt is on - a fact discovered in a hire car after much irritation in Portugal about 10 years ago).
There's loads of other fancy in car tech I really can't get excited about the benefits of but it would take something special to encourage me to have another mechanical handbrake car.
Dino juice auto with electric handbrake - decided I didn't want an auto with a manual handbrake - so looked for a later model of my van (classed as car). You have to flick the handbrake lever on, but driving away etc it will release. Hill starts, just press go.
Despite my reservations before getting one, they just work. I never apply it other than when parking and stopping.
VAG e-handbrake will only auto release if the air gap in the calipers is correct. Its a bit of faff to set it using a diagnostics tool and twiddling the caliper to get the gap correct.
@Matt +1
Just have to remember when I'm in Mrs OTS's Hyundai not to do the same and effectively just abandon it when I get out!
Yes, it's another thing to forget to do after the car has been in for a service. Driving in the dark with no lights because they turned off the auto light function. Rolling forward in traffic because they turned off auto-hold.
There is normally an auto hold button next to the button for manual operation of the electric hand brake. As long as this is lit then you just forget about it. Sometimes when you get the car back from MOT it will have been disengaged.
This definitely.
Auto-hold is not the same as the electric handbrake & it is often turned off after a service/MOT.
My Leon has the auto hold button & electronic handbrake. I never really give them a second thought. My Wife's Ibiza doesn't have them & every time she drives my car she says 'remind me how that handbrake works'. It's just one of those things that takes 10 mins to get used to. Driving her car, I have to remember that I cannot just stop, turn the ignition off & wander off..... 😄
Something you do need to bear in mind though, which most people don't......auto hold keeps the brake lights on. So if you pull up to a stop and auto-hold engages you will be burning the retinas of those behind with the brake lights. In my car the handbrake symbol stays green. Flick the handbrake switch & the dash light goes from green to red & the brake lights go off.
A lot of people don't realise this, or don't care.
A guy I used to lift share with who has a Seat Ateca was adamant it didn't do this & had to try it out on his drive to see it with his own eyes before believing me.
Something you do need to bear in mind though, which most people don't......auto hold keeps the brake lights on...burning the retinas of those behind
Now this really, really irritates me sometimes, especially at night and in poor weather. It's OK for a few seconds, but beyond that, it proper gets my goat. To the extent that I've been known to put my main beam up into their mirror in protest. So I try to avoid being that irritating to anyone behind me, and use the electric handbrake wherever I sensibly can. The Corolla has the CVT gearbox, but the drivetrain is accessed via what looks like a standard auto gear selector of P --> R --> N --> D, plus there's a little button/switch to engage the electric brake - you come to a halt at lights, put it into N and flick the brake on (no brake lights showing at the back, but a suitable red light on the dashboard). As soon as you put it back into D and tap the accelerator, handbrake goes off. Easy peasy.
Maybe my holiday was ruined by not knowing it self disengaged!
First hire car I had with an electric handbrake - might have been Toyota I think - knowing how to use it was secondary to even being able to find it in the first place
Some cars put them roughly where the manual handbrake would have been, some put them on the dash. I'm sure its only a matter of time before they'll be buried somewhere in the menus on the big screen In Car Driver Distraction Unit - This one as an early iteration had it under the dashboard, at shin level, like a bonnet release catch. So every time you needed to use it you had to grope around blindly for it - but not in a hurry because the inertia reel in your seatbelt would let you lean forward that far.
burning the retinas of those behind
It's a 100 lumen light bulb. If looking at something that bright causes distress maybe hang up your car keys until you've been seen by an optician. Especially as if the sun happens to come out you'll have 100,000 lumens to deal with.
Why? I haven't touched the handbrake button in our renault. Stop get out. Handbrake just knows.
Great if your not getting out the car.
Its just on. In or out if the car is stopped its on?
Some auto holds (Ford, looking at you) only work for a short period such as 20 seconds. I had a colleague who forgot this, stopped the bus in a parking space, turned round to chat to the 17 kids and after a short while the autohold released.....
With the Polestar you get a grey coloured handbrake on sign (autohold) but it changes red when it is engaged properly.
I drove a 2001 5 series auto for 8 years.
Auto BMW's being infamous for poor handbrakes
i converted it to manual, still no handbrake
5 years on from owning that car, a handbrake is only ever a secondary brake to me, i couldn't comprehend another system automatically interfering
It's a 100 lumen light bulb. If looking at something that bright causes distress maybe hang up your car keys until you've been seen by an optician. Especially as if the sun happens to come out you'll have 100,000 lumens to deal with
Or maybe if you don't find it dazzlingly bright, you need to see an optician as your eyes must be somehow deficient & lacking in sensitivity? 🤡
Or maybe some people react differently to things?
Last time I checked, the sun wasn't 5m from my eyes & during the day it sits mostly above me in this thing called the sky.
At night time when it gets dark, the bright sun object goes to sleep. When the dark comes it makes the bright red car lights appear even brighter due to a thing called contrast.
How about you shine something like an Exposure Tracer rear light directly in your eyes and tell me that's not dazzlingly bright? How long do the red spots last for?
our 2015 Citroen C1 has a manual handbrake, but a hillstart assist, which was initially a bit odd, but also switches off after 20 seconds. found that out after a it of a panic.
we have a new Hyundai Tucson which has all the gubbins, auto hold, electric handbrake etc. freaked my wife out to start with as she's worried if something happens to me while driving she'll not be able to pull the handbrake on to stop the car (as she'd planned in her head that's what she'd do). I'd guess we'd just crash and hope the airbags did their job. not sure how feasible a manual handbrake would be stopping a car at speed anyway...
2018 Ford Kuga. Has the electric hand brake. This one does NOT auto release if you try to set off with it on. But its obvious and also squawks a warning after a few seconds if you try. But rhe hear has a 'hill assist' function that hold the normal hydraulic brakes on for a few seconds when you set off, that releases smoothly. So having to be a timing master with the hand brake switch isnt necessary. (I find jumping in my wife's car that doesn't have the hill assist unusual / makes me realise Ive got lazy when setting off and often now roll back a tad in hers whilst finding the biting point. (Both cars are manual gearboxes)
Still traditional handbrakes in our vehicles here. Courtesy car - a new MINI Countryman with all number of auto systems - I had for a day last year was handed over without a single bit of introduction, which was fun!
And not that I ever partook in any such juvenile behaviour...
freaked my wife out to start with as she's worried if something happens to me while driving she'll not be able to pull the handbrake on to stop the car
That should still be possible with an electric handbrake, most cars allow controlled braking in an emergency by pulling and holding the parking brake switch. Check your handbook.
This is where I, somewhat hesitantly, admit that I've never used the handbrake on my petrol auto. It just gets left in "P" when parked and in "D" when driving.
Is this bad? It's bad isn't it?
Got one on my Skoda. Absolutely fine most of the time, don't see an issue with them.
But once, only a few weeks after getting the car, I had to parallel park into a tight gap on a hill and didn't know* how to disengage the handbrake other than by engaging the clutch in reverse and then hitting the brakes very very quickly as I lurched back half a metre, when all I wanted to do was roll back gently using gravity and a small amount of foot brake to control my speed. Bit stressful was that.
*I think I know how to do it now [embarrassed emoticon].
The Corolla has the CVT gearbox, but the drivetrain is accessed via what looks like a standard auto gear selector of P --> R --> N --> D, plus there's a little button/switch to engage the electric brake - you come to a halt at lights, put it into N and flick the brake on (no brake lights showing at the back, but a suitable red light on the dashboard). As soon as you put it back into D and tap the accelerator, handbrake goes off. Easy peasy.
Why not just stick it in P?
This is where I, somewhat hesitantly, admit that I've never used the handbrake on my petrol auto. It just gets left in "P" when parked and in "D" when driving.
Is this bad? It's bad isn't it?
It's how everyone in the US drives. The first time I was driving over there and used the "parking brake" my passenger looked at me like I'd lost my mind.
Why not just stick it in P?
I think i came unstuck doing that one time, as in it wouldn't carry on driving forwards afterwards, and I had to 'reboot' the car, ie turn it off and on again. Also, moving it to and from P means going through R twice, which can be a little disconcerting to the poor bugger behind you!
Might try it again when I'm not in a queue of traffic and liable to cause a nuisance.
Something you do need to bear in mind though, which most people don't......auto hold keeps the brake lights on.
Does it?! I always thought auto-hold was there for the reason that it did turn the brake lights off for exactly the reason you mention, to be more considerate to the poor driver behind.
Now I find out that it's only there so the driver doesn't need to keep their foot on the brake pedal!
This information has shaken my entire belief system and may require me to go back to bed and start the day all over again.
I'm not sure it is not true for all vehicles, failure sure it's not for ours though I am going to check later. The ID puts the handbrake symbol on when holding which would suggest handbrake. In our old golf it was definitely the handbrake as you could hear it engaging and on that I definitely noticed the brake lights go off when I realised the foot brake.
Every car I've driven with an electric handbrake, you just drive and the handbrake automatically disengages. So actually easier than a manual handbrake.
Same here, didn't realise they worked any other way.
Some folk here remind me of about 15 years ago we flew into Houston and got given a hire car booked by the company. Only they didn't have the crown Vic land barge we were supposed to get and we ended up in a V8 power stroke van e350
Colleague jumps in and says he will drive . Drive across Houston and he said . Man this things slow and hard work - baring in mind this guy has only ever had a 1.4l fiesta so we figure something's odd.
We go to the bar and another fella who is tee total drives us - jumps in - releases hand brake - driver 1 then says "what did you do there? " ..... Release the hand brake.
Cue the e350 being a competitive rocket compared to the previous journey.
No clutch on the auto he just throttled through the hand brake and the big diesel just powered through
Leaving it in P instead of using the Handbrake - shouldn't do any harm unless you like parking on a big hill, or a small hill with a big trailer/fully laden. Will deform/wear the mechanism over time. Dropping P in while moving (even very slowly) will accelerate the wear and may cause damage.
Seems to be this idea that it's an "emergency brake". No, it's not. It's a parking brake, or a hand brake. Calling it EPB in early documentation was a mistake, probably 50% of people think the E stands for emergency. It doesn't. Electric or Electronic.
Auto hold, depends, multiple ways to enter the mode, depending on whose control module you use, what signals there are on the CAN and what you've paid for (as an OE). Brake pedal pressure, Gradient, Roll back (in D), roll forwards (in R) as starters.
Multiple exit triggers too, to drive or reverse (if you press the accelerator), to roll or park (if you shift to N or P), to EPB if it times out (usually auto hold rather than hill hold that times out) but anyway, lots of other stuff going on that i can't remember. I did the concept design work for the whole set up for three OEs across five suppliers and 8 or 9 different platforms.
Thanks to this thread I have no learned that I don't need to disengage the hand brake on the new car before driving off...
The Corolla has the CVT gearbox, but the drivetrain is accessed via what looks like a standard auto gear selector of P --> R --> N --> D, plus there's a little button/switch to engage the electric brake - you come to a halt at lights, put it into N and flick the brake on (no brake lights showing at the back, but a suitable red light on the dashboard). As soon as you put it back into D and tap the accelerator, handbrake goes off. Easy peasy.
I borrowed the MIL's DSG Golf (manual handbrake) and I cannot understand why anyone would prefer it to a manual for pretty much this reason. Any time you have to stop there are two options, sit there with your foot on the brake, go through the sequence of putting it in neutral, handbrake on, and then reversing the process to set off. Which seems straightforward, but there's interlocks between the gear lever, the button on the gear lever and the brake pedal. So it becomes far more complicated than actually just driving a manual! And if you do manage it, then it'll be the one time the hill-assist doesn't kick in when you take you foot off the brake.
It was great on the motorway, stick you foot down to overtake and it's down 4 gears and accelerating in the blink of an eye. Horrible around town unless you just sit there with your foot on the brake blinding everyone, if you resign yourself to that it's great. And horrible on narrow lanes, every time you try an ease on the throttle part way round a bend nothing happens (because it thinks you want to be coasting in 7th gear), so you press a bit more, now it's in 3rd and making an anti-social bid for the horizon, there is no middle ground where it just wafts between corners at a sensible pace. Sport mode is even worse, that just put it in 3rd and never shifted up after the last bend. I imagine it's what driving an 80's turbocharged sports car must have been like for the few moments before it deposited it's stock-broker owner into the nearest hedge.
When you put the car in park it jams a peg in the transmission. If you're on a slope then the car rolls onto that peg and it can be pretty hard to get out. That's why I always use handbrake and park, and why I don't rely on park at traffic lights.
When you put the car in park it jams a peg in the transmission.
That would presumably explain the sort of 'lurch within the suspension' you sometimes get when engaging P. So it properly jams the wheels? I used to see this happen in American films, and always wondered why they were so cackhanded at parking.
That would presumably explain the sort of 'lurch within the suspension' you sometimes get when engaging P. So it properly jams the wheels? I used to see this happen in American films, and always wondered why they were so cackhanded at parking.
Yeah, it will roll a little. Both handbrake and park here, belt and braces and all that.
If you're on a slope then the car rolls onto that peg and it can be pretty hard to get out.
I've got a video somewhere of a colleague trying to get a heavily laden test car out of P, from the olden days where they used bowden cables. There was enough flex in the system you could pull the lever all the way back to D and still nothing. We even had to defeat all the interlocks to see just how far you could go before it popped out. One foot in each footwell doing what equated to some sort of weightlifters squat...
The system was completely redesigned before launch!
Not really, handbrake is to hold the car, P is to a) disconnect the transmission from the engine and b) act as a back up system if the handbrake fails.Both handbrake and park here, belt and braces and all that.
Not really, handbrake is to hold the car, P is to a) disconnect the transmission from the engine and b) act as a back up system if the handbrake fails.
If my handbrake fails (the belt), the gearbox in P (the braces), stop my car rolling down the hill (my pants falling down) so it's exactly like belt and braces lol! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 😉
But I get your point. I prefer to have all four wheels locked.
*laughs in 6MT*
I cannot for the life of me understand this shit. We even have a CVT Verso....with a handbrake. Why on earth you'd want anything else I cannot fathom. Good bloody luck when
A it goes wrong
B it does it wrong
By the way, NCAP is not going to give max scores to cars with touchscreen for basic functions any more. Seems like this should be next to get marked down.
Or maybe if you don't find it dazzlingly bright, you need to see an optician as your eyes must be somehow deficient & lacking in sensitivity?
Or maybe some people react differently to things?
When I’m stopped behind other vehicles, like at traffic lights, I have my foot on the brake pedal, as do all the cars in front, and I can’t say I’m bothered by the lights; however, if it’s going to be longer I use the handbrake and put the car in Park.
I’ve used many different automatic/electric brakes, and never really got comfortable with them, I much prefer my Ford’s system, a traditional mechanical handbrake with a semiautomatic ‘box, which has a hill-hold function - if I stop on a slope, I just take my foot off the brake.
Why on earth you'd want anything else I cannot fathom.
Well, lots of people have died when they don't engage the handbrake correctly and the car rolls off as they try to get out. My wife's aunt actually saw this happen and yes the driver (an old lady) died.
I live on a hill, and in the first few years I lived here I saw four cars disengage their handbrakes and roll down the hill. Electronic parking brakes (at least, the one I had on my Passat) cannot disengage spontaneously due to their design. So there's that too.
A Handbrake cannot disengage itself, you are effectively describing how the person was not able to control the vehicle. All they had to do was leave it in gear and turn the wheels to the kerb while parking.Then it would not have happened, no matter how poorly the handbrake was engaged.
Sometimes you just have to admit you should not be driving.
Probably the vehicle was in poor repair also.
Edit - yes this is a harsh take, but consider it
And be wary of dogs "chewing" through the handbrake cable 🤣
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y17lpx70o
handbrakes can and do disengage. park up with the brakes hot ( drum) pull brake on. brakescool and thus shrink. shoes are alloy so shrink more than tbe drums. brake releases as shoes pull away from the drums
A Handbrake cannot disengage itself,They can and do. Less so these days with changes to the design of the ratchet. But they do still fail.
Hilarious and untrue. It would be a stonking fundamental flaw in the design. Also, geometry.
I'll leave it after this, you're welcome to show any examples of this actually happening that didn't result in lawsuit aimed at the manufacturer.
Edit -mert - I already covered poor maintenance.
I'm surprised no ones mentioned fly-off hand brakes yet.
If you've not had the pleasure, they're like a roller blind, you give it a tug upwards to release the ratchet. Except they're like a roller blind, you give it a tug upwards at just the wrong speed and the ratchet clicks back on, and on, and on, until the lights go red again. And each time you think you've got it and start lowering it to the floor, nope. The lever is designed to move freely back to the floor once engaged because it's on a ratchet.
theres a certain humour to arguing about vehicle design - to someone who's actively involved in vehicle design 🤣
You mean me? I am.
make of it what you will but I'm also laughing at the suggestion that handbrakes are infallible
They're not infallible, of course.
Anyway I am being very argumentative about something that isn't really important I suppose. Soz.
It's just, like, my opinion, man
electric car has a creep mode that moves it forwards/backwards as appropriate when you take the foot of the brake so it won't roll either.
An i3 doesn’t, only full one pedal driving, it comes to a complete stop and needs the accelerator to move. No different settings to choose and brilliantly simple to drive. Although I don’t think it ever holds the brakes as such, all done with the motor and it may roll on steep slopes (it’s been a while since I had mine 😞).
It has a park button that you press when you stop properly which I think from memory must have also put the handbrake on.
If the range works for you then I’d thoroughly recommend, I loved mine 🙂
EDIT: for the avoidance of doubt I’m not arguing with trail rat, just pointing out that one of the OP’s shortlist cars doesn’t act in the same way as loads of others do!
Our Volvo(auto,ice) has one, its fine but I prefer an old fashioned stick like the van has. However the auto handbrake feature is shite in ours, doesn't disengage smoothly and engages prematurely when you're trying to park, so we turn that off.