[Closed] Election Campaign

Well the whole local homes for local people thing does immediately beg the obvious question....

How are you going to enforce that then?

It seems to me like everyone has kind of assumed that nobody is going to get a majority, therefore all manifesto's become null and void, as they enter coalition negotiations

So you might as well promise everyone a gold-plated unicorn - or increased public spending AND tax cuts - because you're never going to get the chance to do any of it anyway. Which is handy.

He does not trust them but his own random haphazard and unevidenced poll of people he knows is proof.

That's life, when you're 100% accurate!

JY Why don't you explain why Salmond has been pretty much invisible during this campaign, aside of course from joking that he would be writing the Labour party budget. He's invisible as the SNP well know the level of his unpopularity South of the border. You might also like to pick an argument with me on a topic you have a chance of being proven correct on, this one is another where you are out on your own.

That's why they'd have to headhunt him. What's your point caller?

I've never heard of a political party headhunting for a party leader, usually they emerge from the existing organisation, not from another political party.

I took your comment "headhunted off to run the national party" as meaning that, as did Z-11, and mefty, perhaps you meant something different ?

That's life, when you're 100% accurate!

As an aside did you see Varoufakis has been demoted and is not conducting the negotiations, this after being openly called an amateur by the eurogroup finance ministers. He reminds me of Salmond during the election campaign on the whole currency issue.

How are you going to enforce that then?

+1

You only have to be resident for 3 years to be classed as local, but in effect the Labour party would be deliberately reducing people movement within the UK, which is possibly the worst policy I've ever heard of outside the cr*p the extremist parties come up with.

The Miliband in Salmond's poster has been widely recognised as one of the most most effective of the election so far, forcing an immediate reaction from Miliband to rule out a coalition with the SNP

Quote from the Guardian below, I recalled reading that Lib Dem and Tory private polls and focus groups had confirmed what frankly we all know that Salmond is a liability to the SNPs strategy South of the Border.

[i]There is genuine anger within the Labour ranks about the Tories’ divide-and-conquer strategy, which they regard as cynical and incredibly damaging to the wider unionist cause. On one level it is Lynton Crosby-inspired genius: focus groups have revealed that Alex Salmond, though still wildly popular north of the border, is markedly less so south of Berwick-upon-Tweed.[/i]

There you go again stating that a party with NO MPS standing south of the border has a strategy for there
They do its to not stand there.

Quoting polls that are private [ have you now changed your mind and think you have seen them ?] whilst also stating how you dont believe polls 😀

You might also like to pick an argument with me on a topic you have a chance of being proven correct on, this one is another where you are out on your own.

If you wont budge when the evidence is so strong [ re polls] it really is pointless engaging with you as your views are not factually based and they are not consistent as you are now citing polls as your evidence when you say you dont believe them.

If your logic was half as good as your confidence you would be Plato instead you act moire like Pluto.
I withdraw from this game of #pidgeonchess

You only have to speak to people here to hear again and again how much they are disliked after the lies of the Referendum campaign and the constant whining after regarding "the vow"

What; as opposed to the factual and accurate information that came from the Unionists side from day one? And sorry for expecting the changes that were promised to be introduced,although that nice man David Cameron is going to introduce the findings in the next session.He said he was,so even though he is tearing the SNP a new one on a daily basis,I am sure he will put it all behind him and do as he says.

Alex Salmond, though still wildly popular north of the border

He is divisive north of the border also, very Marmite.

[quote=jambalaya ] Salmond the most likely leader of the SNP in WestminsterYou got that straight from Angus Robertson I guess?

As an aside did you see Varoufakis has been demoted and is not conducting the negotiations, this after being openly called an amateur by the eurogroup finance ministers.

I don't think people like Dijsselbloem are in much position to call Varoufakis an amateur. At least YV doesn't have to fake his CV.
[url= http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-amends-cork-university-degree-error-29195279.html ]http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-amends-cork-university-degree-error-29195279.html[/url]

The Eurogroup are good at calling names and leaking their politically motivated stories to the press, not so good at solving real problems.

jambalaya - Member
JY Why don't you explain why Salmond has been pretty much invisible during this campaign...

He doesn't have to do a thing. The red and blue Tories give him all the publicity he needs south of the border, and it keeps his profile high in Scotland.

With Sturgeon fronting the SNP campaign even though she won't be in Westminster, Salmond gets a free hand to concentrate on running for a seat up here and helping out other candidates. I'm sure Nick Clegg would like that luxury...

not sure that bubble needs inflating any more!

Why ever not? What could possibly go wrong?

I'm all for it, I've just bought 50 rabbit hutches and will be selling them on for £200k a piece post election....

as much as i think the monsterring of the SNP and Sturgeon by the rightwing press has been predictably unpleasant and a depressing indictment of Tory tactics, i saw this on facebook and it made me chuckle

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

^nice 😀

jambalaya - Member
JY Why don't you explain why Salmond has been pretty much invisible during this campaign...

Maybe he's keeping out of it since the new leader might want to be reinforcing that fact rather than being cast as some sort of puppet by types like yourself?

The fact is it matters not a jot what anyone south of the border thinks, what does matter is how we vote. Popularity doesn't come into it else you might as well just dissolve the union tomorrow.

One face-saving option for everyone would be to just kick it into the long grass - put off renewal decisions for the moment citing "the economic climate" and let it fade away. Never actually have a vote on renewal, just keep saying that more studies are needed.

they are already spending the money for the renewal and the existing boats/ systems won't last five more years, and it ultimately will make the cost of procurement higher

We're getting pretty close to unprecendented territory here, though - Tories, Lib Dems and Labour are now all saying that they think SNP MPs shouldn't somehow be valid MPs.

The Tories have even apparently approached the Queen to see if she'll intervene to keep Cameron in power. There's a word for what happens when you try to subvert the democratic will of the people - that word is "coup".

if Cameron can't get a Queens speech through he'll not be able to govern

big_n_daft - Member

where has that been explicitly stated?

David Cameron:
"You cannot let the people who want to break up our country into the government of our country."

Theresa May: Abdication Mad Screeching

[quote=big_n_daft ]

The Tories have even apparently approached the Queen to see if she'll intervene to keep Cameron in power. There's a word for what happens when you try to subvert the democratic will of the people - that word is "coup".

David Cameron:
"You cannot let the people who want to break up our country into the government of our country."

so please don't vote for them?

it's not exactly an order to all the Queen's armies is it? just yet another campaign speech by a politician

as for

On Sunday, the "coup" stepped up a gear. In a fascinating piece in the Sunday Times, we learn that the Queen – who technically has the power to choose who forms the government – has had to make clear she will not get involved in propping up a government that does not have the support of the majority of MPs. It stresses that we don't know whether it's Miliband or Cameron who asked the question, but there is one revealing quote from a Palace source: "Cameron remains Prime Minister but he can't borrow the Queen for support".

There's good reason for believing the real story here is that it is the Conservatives who have approached the Palace about shoring up a potential Tory minority government that cannot command a majority.

everything else is conjecture and more likely relates to the work of the Civil Servants planning the various permutations of results............or you could put on your tin foil hat

I agree with big and daft, which must a first, the story sounds like bollock to me.

[i][b]"There's good reason for believing the real story here is that it is the Conservatives who have approached the Palace about shoring up a potential Tory minority government that cannot command a majority".[/i][/b]

The 'good reason' probably being that the author wants to whip up a scare story about an alleged possible coup.

There is no reasonable possibility imo that the Queen would be a willing party to a plot to [i]"subvert the democratic will of the people"[/i] and on that basis, and in the absence of any actual real evidence, I don't believe that Cameron has approached the Queen with that in mind.

Election campaigns are best fought focusing on facts and not innuendos and factless scaremongering, something which I have grown to expect the Tories to do, not their opponents.

big_n_daft - Member

it's not exactly an order to all the Queen's armies is it?

I think you might be misunderstanding your [i]own [/i]post 😕

[quote=ernie_lynch ]I agree with big and daft, which must a first, the story sounds like bollock to me.
"There's good reason for believing the real story here is that it is the Conservatives who have approached the Palace about shoring up a potential Tory minority government that cannot command a majority".
The 'good reason' probably being that the author wants to whip up a scare story about an alleged possible coup.I happen to agree, but that was answering BnDs question regarding where this story had come from.

I agree that the Cameron/Queenie get together is likely a work of fiction.I nearly posted earlier that while everyone is looking internally about the possibilities/ramifications of a minority government and whether another election may be called then imho external foreign affairs are far more likely to influence things.If Putin makes a move or there's another another middle eastern crisis with splits between the main parties on what to do then what happens? The Royal family have a track record if this is to be believed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1951

Touching to have the hand of friendship extended to us all - will our watches be still there when we let go?

It's interesting that the DUP, of all people, have come out today complaining about the way the other parties, especially the Tories, have been implying that Scottish MP's are somehow 2nd class and aren't entitled to take part in government decision making.

I think you'll find epicsteve that the Tories don't have a problem with "Scottish MPs", they appear to have a problem SNP MPs. There can be a significant difference between the two..

I'm sure Cameron would very happily work with Scottish Tory MPs, he might even give one a ministerial position.

I think you'll find epicsteve that the Tories don't have a problem with "Scottish MPs", they appear to have a problem SNP MPs. There can be a significant difference between the two..

Their buddies in the DUP don't seem to think so - they're even going so far as suggesting they might pull their support for the Tories due to their apparent disregard for the democratic process.

Of course the truth is that the Tories don't really give a shit one way or the other, as the vote in Scotland makes little difference to their chances of ruling the UK, as that relies almost 100% on them gaining enough seats in England alone to form a UK wide majority. Instead they're using the SNP as a stick to beat Labour with, by winding up anti-SNP/Scotland sentiment in England. To an extent it's working because Millband and Labour are playing into their hands. All Labour needs to do is say that they're willing to do a deal with SNP, but that the one thing they won't agree to is another independence referendum in the life of the parliament (which the SNP aren't asking for anyway). I understand that has difficulties for them because they're holding onto the hope of gaining some ground back in Scotland (although it appears the gap has actually widened) - however Millband saying he won't have anything to do with the SNP (and making it look like it's just his decision) is counterproductive. Maybe it will even cost him his job if Labour come 2nd to the Tories?

Poll on Newsnight to say people are nearly as worried about the SNP being in power as part of a coalition as they are about UKIP

Poll on Newsnight to say people are nearly as worried about the SNP being in power as part of a coalition as they are about UKIP

The Westminster parties are doing the SNP's work for them. I suspect if there was another independence poll now it'd be a lot closer that the last one, without the SNP having to life a finger.

Their buddies in the DUP don't seem to think so - they're even going so far as suggesting they might pull their support for the Tories due to their apparent disregard for the democratic process.

Well it depends what they are referring to (I haven't seen the news story) If they are claiming that the Tories think Scottish MPs "aren't entitled to take part in government decision making" then my point stands.

If however they are claiming that the Tories see Scottish MPs as "somehow 2nd class" with regards to the west lothian question and not having the same voting rights then that's quite different.

And I personally have to agree with that, ie, I see no reason why Scottish MPs should have the same voting rights as English MPs on matters such as health, education, housing, environment, and so on.

But the real solution, the democratic solution, is to have English regional parliaments, or at the very least an English parliament. And that would leave all Westminster MPs with equal voting rights. As it should be, imo.

I'm sure Cameron would very happily work with Scottish Tory MPs, he might even give one a ministerial position.

Well, he would struggle to find 2...boom tish...

Local Farmers up here are know as the Mearns royalty, and that isn't a compliment either. The pleading billboards have appeared in the fields asking folks to put aside party loyalty and save the union. 😀

Ah, I've just read the DUP/Tory news story and it's the second point I was making concerning the west lothian question and not having the same voting rights :

[b][i]"Glib and lazy talk about SNP MPs somehow not being as entitled to vote in every division in the Commons as any other British MP, simply fuels nationalist paranoia".[/i][/b]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32479185

But to fair this won't be the first time that the DUP has fallen out with the Tories, or the worse fall out. The previous Tory Prime Minister was labeled a liar by the former DUP leader.

[img] [/img]

Own up THM and Jam,which one of you wrote Cameron's speech? 🙂
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-32491643

Any excuse for a Costello song @duckman. The speech was a cringe fest.

Ed Milliband went rownd brandz haus last night for a chat didn't ee

Alex Salmond has set up a company to accept his book profits and avoid paying top rates of tax and national insurance on the earnings. Perfectly legal tax avoidance.

So that's why the DO wanted to cut corporation tax too!! 😉

You don't have to make it up

If however they are claiming that the Tories see Scottish MPs as "somehow 2nd class" with regards to the west lothian question and not having the same voting rights then that's quite different.

The latter seemed to be what they were pointing to.

And I personally have to agree with that, ie, I see no reason why Scottish MPs should have the same voting rights as English MPs on matters such as health, education, housing, environment, and so on.

Well it'll make for an interesting UK government as we could well see the following:

UK government: Some kind of loose Labour led coalition
England: A majority of Tory MP's
Scotland: A majority of SNP MP's
Wales: A majority of Labour MP's
NI: Not really relevant to the rest of the UK parties

So we could well end up with a system where the party that controls the UK government actually has very little power and perhaps be seen as having little legitimacy in most of the UK.

Forum names changed, I wonder if anyone will notice it's still me 8)

@epic, the Tories have thought of that in proposing EVEL, there are scenarios where what you say could come to be although typically the party with a majority in England is the one who forms the government.

Both Jam + THM name changes, at the same time.....

Hmmm....

Ever seen in the same room together ? 🙂

😀

A forum snafu I see!

Andrew Bird - Member
@epic, the Tories have thought of that in proposing EVEL, there are scenarios where what you say could come to be although typically the party with a majority in England is the one who forms the government.

I'm all for EVEL.

But it should be in an English Parliament, not the UK one.

'tis fun though - have you seen the other thread 🙂

It is fun...