[Closed] Educate me about the 2nd World War - recomend a good book.

The Antony Beevor books are very good but my personal favourite is 'With the Jocks' by Peter White as it is a first hand account written after the war drawn on his memories and from the diary he kept against Army rules.

The 2nd World War and the Nazis are really two different subjects imo. And the Final Solution yet another subject.

Zedsdead - I really wasn't sure if your question was a troll or not. I guess it's big of you to acknowledge what you don't know and try to put it right.

Just be careful though, that kind of interest can get a bit fetishistic, which isn't a good thing!

My mother's family are all originally Polish and my gradfather was a POW in one of the concentration camps. Consequently on one of my many visits to Krakow in Poland I decided I had to go and see Auschwitz.

You can't even begin to put into words what that experience is like. Actually standing there in the gas chambers and then seeing the ovens where they burnt the bodies....

It makes you sick to be human.

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Man-Truce-Primo-Levi/dp/0349100136 ][i]If This Is A Man[/i] by Primo Levi[/url] is a book that everyone should read.

mastiles_fanylion makes good rec with Anthony Beevor. Top learnage and they rip along.

Len Deighton's Fighter is an excellent rendition of the Battle of Britain.

BTW, on purely the subject of the Nazis, I reckon "The Third Reich" by D.G. Williamson is excellent.....easy to read and concise. It doesn't cover the Final Solution though.

+1 for the Anthony Beevor books.

Consequently on one of my many visits to Krakow in Poland I decided I had to go and see Auschwitz.

You can't even begin to put into words what that experience is like. Actually standing there in the gas chambers and then seeing the ovens where they burnt the bodies....

I was glad I went, just so I could try to understand a bit of what it must have been like, but I was shocked at the disrespect some people show - there was rubbish thrown on the floor and when we were in the original camp (the old army barracks) we walked through the intact gas chambers. All around were signs asking people to respect where they were and not to talk or take photographs. I kid you not, people were talking on mobiles, taking flash photographs, the lot.

I just couldn't understand it - if the place means so little to these people, why did they even bother going?

Difficult to go for one book that covers all of WW2, there were so many different theatres, many allied nations, etc.

I've read the Stephen Ambrose books (of Band of Brothers fame), and while they are mostly US forces based, they give a good illustration of the men on the frontline due to them being greatly based upon oral history from the veterans themselves.

If This Is A Man by Primo Levi is a book that everyone should read.

from the British side try

With the Jocks.....as previously said, cracking read
By Tank into Normandy......also very good

if you want a normal soldiers view of Italy, try "the recollections of rifleman bolby" no gungho stuff in their.

Band of Brothers is also good,

and from the German side " the forgotten soldier" this is about the Russian front.

but as has been said before, there is so much to read out there, once you start, you'll never get to the end.

on the subject of Concentration Camps, I visited Dachau, it was so quiet, very moving, they have pictures of the camp from 1945, the one that touched the wife most was the picture of a massive pile of shoes, just thinking that every pair was from a person.

I have a copy of the book that accompanied the World at War series from the 80's i think (possibly the 70's). very good documentary, I think it was richard burton who narrated it.

oh, almost forgot, if you want to know what hapened inside the Nazi party, try "Inside the Reich" by Albert Speer

I'd recommend the World at War DVD series. Available on Amazon etc and also as a BitTorrent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-At-War-Ultimate-Restored/dp/B003IN7YQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291047219&sr=8-1

As suggested "The World At War" is probably the best place to start if you are after an overview of the war, what lead up to it etc. The books being recommended here seem to be specific to subjects such as personal recollections etc. Probably more the kind of thing you might go on to once you have the overview of the whole conflict.

Good point Speaker - most of the above do kinda assume there is a level of knowledge about the subject so sitting down and starting to absorb it on a DVD might just be the way to go.

I have the full set at home (it was a freebie in the Express newspaper series a few years ago and my dad collected all the vouchers and sent off for them all for me) 🙂

I must actually watch them at some point.

the one that touched the wife most was the picture of a massive pile of shoes, just thinking that every pair was from a person.

They have exhibits of that subject matter at Auschwitz. The museum (if that is what one call reasonably call it) is built into the brick buildings that constitute the camp (Auschwitz itself was quite small and the biuldings where the prisoners were housed were made of brick, whereas Birkenau, which is a few miles down the road and where the infamous rail way line approaches, was about 10 times as large and the buildings were all made of wood). They have these huge display cabinets, maybe 2m high and 5m long, that are filled with either shoes, or suitcases or glasses or other mundane items of human existence.

Our guide told us the story about one survivor who had come back to see the camp and who had exclaimed in horror that she could see her suitcase in that vast collection.

Geetee - the original camp was the old army barracks so conditions weren't too bad (in comparison). The Birkenau camp used huts designed to take something like 50 horses. Instead they crammed in something like 350 people into each one from what I remember being told when we visited (and were originally going to hold around 15 prisoners).

[img] [/img]

EDIT: Some reports say the huts held up to 1,000 people.

You need to get your education from the same place as the rest of us;

[img] [/img]

You'll also learn a few handy German phrases...

mintimperial - Member
If This Is A Man by Primo Levi is a book that everyone should read.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

+6 million

The Truce is equally compelling.

For military history I would suggest Anthony Beevor:

Stalingrad
Berlin
D-Day: The Battle for Normandy

For an explanation of the rise of the Nazis:

The Nazis: A Warning From History

For the Final Solution:

Auschwitz : The Nazis & The 'Final Solution'
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 11 and the Final Solution in Poland

Currently reading The Storm Of War which is a pretty excellent history of WW2. Just read the section on the camps. Brutal reading. 🙁

was shocked at the disrespect some people show

I witnessed a fat amerian line his family up in front of the firing wall to shoot a nice pic for the holiday album! Far too shocked and speachless to do or say what I wish I had...

The events leading up to war rather than the just the war itself would be an interesting point to start. I was listening to a documentary about Chamberlain. He hasn't been treated that well by history but thats because he's been judged with the luxury of hindsight. There are those that might argue though that by delaying entry into the war he was instrumental in our victory. During that delay our spitfires were built for instance, children were evacuated from the cities, anderson shelters were devised and distributed. I'm always astounded by what a massive industrial effort the war was, given what a short period of time it was.

Also, ariel bombardment was a new, unknown threat and it was a genuine fear that half a million british civilians would die in the first night of the blitz alone. So you can well imagine why you'd seek not to enter into that

The other aspect is that during this delay Hitler started his campaign and his threats were turned into actions. Following events in Czechoslovakia it became clear how things were going to be. Czechoslovakia gave the UK 'moral superiority' thats to say nobody was unsure whether [i]we[/i] were the good guys or not and we entered the war with every single soul in the UK having faith in our actions. A year earlier we wouldn't have had that.

Zedsdead - I really wasn't sure if your question was a troll or not. I guess it's big of you to acknowledge what you don't know and try to put it right.

Not a troll at all! I simply didn't pay attention and wish I had.

Thanks for all the recomendations everyone. I'll be picking up a few of those for sure.

reach for the sky.... by douglas bader...truly amazing bloke,crashed his spitfire lost 2 legs and then got back in a fighter to continue fighting....got captured/shot down went to colditz,escaped a few times...

first book i ever read

The Second World War by Keegan is good. A bit less of a narrative history, but not too dry.
With the Jocks is excellent. Doubly so for me as my Grandad was with the KOSB's in the war.
Stalingrad and Berlin are both outstanding. The events Berlin read like something out of the old testament.

Lot of good stuff mentioned, but also read Mein Kampf and have a look at the rise of the Nazis and the reasons why.

It's amazing and horrifying that a civilised and decent people behaved as the Germans did, and a warning to oppose totalitarianism in all its forms.

armageddon by Max Hastings is a pretty comprehensive book re the events leading up to the end of WW2

The Forgotten Soldier is good - a bit 'fiction', possibly

The Good Soldier by Alfred Novotny, an Austrian in the [i]Grossdeutschland[/i] division, is also a good read - he was taken prisoner by the USSR at the end of the war, and survived.

For a 'simple' overview, this may suit:
http://www.learningthings.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=PPB%2D0756630089&eq=PPB0789462982A&Tp=

cycleworlduk - Member reach for the sky.... by douglas bader...truly amazing bloke,crashed his spitfire

Reach For The Sky was written by Paul Brickhill and it was a Bristol Bulldog that Bader was flying when he crashed causing him to lose his legs on 14th December 1931 - the Spitfire prototype K5054 made its maiden flight piloted by 'Mutt' Summers on 5th March 1936...

So many good books about WWII - most of the books by pilots of the time are excellent - Enemy Coast Ahead (Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC, DSO and bar, DFC and bar), First Light (Geoffrey 'Boy' Wellum, recently made into an excellent docu-drama), I Flew For The Fuhrer (Heinz Knocke) being three examples.

Anthony Beevor is excellent, Ill Met By Moonlight by W. Stanley Moss (the story of the abduction of General Kreipe by the author, Patrick Leigh Fermor and many others) is a cracking read. The list goes on and on!

The Lake, The Villa, The Meeting covers the Wannsee Conference where Heydrich and others thrashed out the details of the Final Solution and has been made into a chilling film called Conspiracy and starring Kenneth Brannagh, Colin Firth and others. Not easy watching but fascinating.

epicyclo - have you read all of Mein Kampf? I tried some years ago in the hope of understanding why the Germans followed Hitler, but only got about 70-80 pages in before giving up.

The Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer is also a very good book concerning the life of German troops on the eastern front. I read when I was 15 - pretty much the same age that the author volunteered to fight.

What cranberry said.

The Armagedon series on channel 4 is pretty good at the moment, it might all still be available on 4OD.

I had exactly the same feeling a few weeks ago Zedsdead and bought The Penguin History of the Second World War. At 1225 pages long, you could say it's comprehensive! All the build up from the 1st world war is there, the rise of Hitler appeasement, the lot. Split into 2 main sections as well, the European/African war and the Aisian conflicts. In hindsight, don't think it's a good starting point but might interest some with an already fair knowledge.

Auschwitz : The Nazis & The 'Final Solution' is a good read and was turned into a good documentary as well. I've sourced a couple of the bools listed here on Amazon which can be had second hand for only a few pence. I've got nights coming up at work soon so may have to order some.

Len Deighton's Fighter is an excellent rendition of the Battle of Britain

It's a good read but very out of date now as a result of a lot of official papers having been released in the years since publication. In particular it gives a rather biased view of Dowding's role.

Although much drier, John Ray's [i]The Battle of Britain[/i] is a better historical account with a broader viewpoint.

Off to get my anorak now. 😉

cranberry - Member
epicyclo - have you read all of Mein Kampf?...

A good read is "Churchill's Sacrifice of the Highland Division: France 1940" by Saul David, or how the highland regiments were sacrificed to allow Dunkirk to happen. According to my grandfather they were instructed to keep on fighting with bayonets when they ran out off ammunition - he had some impressive scars to show for it and not a bad word for the Germans.

Clay Blair "Hitler's U-Boat War" (2 volumes) is also instructive on how Churchill was happy to sacrifice convoys in the hope of getting the USA into the war - especially convoy Halifax 229 - bloodchilling mass slaughter - a higher % of merchant seamen died than any of the armed services.

I'd recommend the World at War DVD series

Very very good. Gives a whole picture of WW2 and you could start with it then delve deeper into bits after you've seen it. The video footage is unique, when it came out on T V originally most people had never seen anything like it, it was shocking. My mum is a history teacher and she recommended it to me.
The books might be good but the World At War series gives an excellent overview.

Again, thanks people. Already the more I'm looking into it the more I am fascinated with it all.

My Great Grandfather faught on the front line in WW1 (The Somme aomongst many other battles) and was gassed twice and yet survived. My Step-Grandfather flew in a Wellie Bomber and had some amazing stories!

Glad I started this now...

+ 2 for the World At War series.

Don't know why, but Laurence Olivier's voice helps to make the whole series more riveting, interesting, and easier to follow. A bit like David Attenborough's voice on natural history programmes I guess.

[b]Readers Digest....The world at arms for the book,i`d also echo the World at war dvd collection.

I've just ordered "The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting: Wannsee and the Final Solution" Mark Roseman, "The Second World War" John Keegan and "The Nazis - A Warning From History" Laurence Rees all for £8.50. Now in which order to read them, thinking Keegan, Roseman then Ree's but dont suppose it makes much difference.

Antony Beevor's books are excellent.

For a different angle, Spike Miligan's (he was a gunner) war diaries are a fantastic read. As is [i]Quartered Safe Out Here[/i] by George MacDonald Fraser (the author of [i]Flashman[/i]).

It will also be instructive to look at the Russo–Japanese War 1904-5. Especially how it was funded and promoted by European financiers and businessmen.

It's not a big stretch to extrapolate from that and see how Hitler may have got the idea that Germany had been undermined or set up in WW1. If he had not been so blinded by racial hatred he might actually have done some good for the world by bringing big business into line.

+1 for [i]Quartered Safe Out Here[/i]

For aviation memoirs [i]The Big Show[/i] by Clostermann is superb as is the more recent [i]First Light[/i] by Geoffrey Wellum - subject of a recent TV programme. From the German perspective [i]I Flew for the Fuhrer[/i] by Heinz Knoke is an intriguing read although possibly tricky to get hold of other than secondhand.

+1 for Quartered Safe Out Here

For aviation memoirs The Big Show by Clostermann is superb....

Just bought a copy of QSOH and I could not put The Big Show down once I had picked it up. A fantastic account of the war in the air over occupied France up to the end of the War. If you only ready one book out of the list on this thread I would make it that one.

18 Platoon by Sidney Jary

Defeat into Victory, Slim

technically first world war
Infantry Attacks, Rommel

I'm a bit bored with all the top down histories. There are lots of really interesting accounts from soldiers and ordinary non combatants out there. The aforementioned 'The Forgotten Soldier' is an excellent one. The account of the Battle of Belgorod is truly terrifying.