My point Druidh is this:
In recent years the UK construction industry seems to have got it's act together when delivering large projects such as T5 and the Olympics. This is in contrast to public perception of recent history when jobs like Wembley stadium were unmitigated disasters.
In contrast, Scotland still seems to struggle, eg Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh trams - very public over spends and fall-outs.
I then went on to say that the M74 seems to contradict this as it's going well.
Not an earth shattering post that's going to change the course of mankind, just a Saturday afternoon musing. All clear now?
chickenman - Member
"I guess that 20 years of designing traffic management systems to cause the maximimun amount of stationary traffic through out the city and p**s off the most amount of comuters was maybe not the best preparation for a major engineering project like this"
You know what? I think it's possible that also has something to do with the fact that there's too many cars trying to get in and out of the city. Which is possibly a case for some sort of mass transport system.
Northwind - MemberYou know what? I think it's possible that also has something to do with the fact that there's too many cars trying to get in and out of the city. Which is possibly a case for some sort of mass transport system.
Compared to many cities (UK and abroad), I actually don't think Edinburgh is [i]that[/i] bad in terms of car numbers and traffic. Maybe my expectations are lower than those of others.
Druidh - tried to drive in or out of the city to the west at rush hour recently? Can take an hour or more from the bypass to the centre. The main issues are the corridor to the west and a small area around the centre
TandemJeremy - Member
Druidh - tried to drive in or out of the city to the west at rush hour recently? Can take an hour or more from the bypass to the centre. The main issues are the corridor to the west and a small area around the centre
I drive / have driven a lot more than you TJ. The plain truth is that if it was that bad, fewer folk would do it.
[i]The plain truth is that if it was that bad, fewer folk would do it. [/i]
You sure about that druidh? Not necessarily Edinburgh in particular, just car use in general. People just don't consider other means of transport, you can see it happening as roads fill up and instead of thinking "oh hang on, this is getting silly, it's taken an hour to go 5 miles" they think "the Government should do something, more roads need to be built"
Usual attitude is that everyone else should find some other means of transport so they can keep using the car!
Takes me 45 minutes to drive from muirhouse to the bypass during rush hour. The problem isnt really the volume of traffic, its the stupid way its managed and also they aggressive and poor driving standards.
Wow - can't believe this one is still going!
I drive in about once a week. Takes me about 25 mins/ half an hour to get from Riccarton to Castle Terrace via Calder Road and West Approach Road, maybe 20-25 mins if I'm in for 0830 instead of 0900. Worst ever was about 45 mins when the Gorgie Road/ Balgreen Junction was shut by roadworks - that's still dramatically less than the "hour or more" made up FACT that TJ quoted.
That said, cycling that takes about 20 mins by the same route (though Gorgie Road instead of WAR as no cycling on that).
Given the difference between school holidays and normal rush hour, I think I can safely say volume of traffic is the main problems. Even Fridays are generally easier than the rest of the week, presumably because people who work less than 5 days won't do a Friday and more people get public transport so they can go for a scoop after work.
Drudh - I agree its odd that people do.
Have you actually tried to get out of the city to the west at rush hour? Its not uncommon for it to be an hour plus and the same to get in in the morning.
My mum did it for years - why I have no idea. She spent 3 hrs+ a day in a car and 1/3 of her salary on commuting.
Not a made up fact stu N. Actual observed fact.
Surely the solution is a congestion charge, a massive investment (though still tiny in comparison to the M74) in comprehensive segregated bike lanes and tell people to MTFU and get out of their cars?
I'm a huge fan of tram systems, though I confess I don't know any of the specifics of Edinburgh's. Are trams safer for cyclists than buses? I always imagined they would be as you know the exact route and, er, line choice they're going to take.
3 hours a day? Seriously? Where was she starting and finishing? I just can't see how it can regularly take her twice as long as it takes me at worst...
3 hrs + a day total travel. Probably nearer 4. Coming in from the A90 direction. I sat in the car many a time as it took around an hour to get from the a90 to the city centre.
I thought she was crackers to do this.
Remember to factor in the inaccuracy of your timepiece
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Northwind: Yes fewer people should take their cars in to work: Lots of folk though, like myself, actually need to use a vehicle as part of their work and have you noticed that when the schools are on holiday that the traffic volume halves?
However, would you like a list of incompetently designed traffic systems in the town that cause congestion even when it's not busy?
Stationary traffic next to Victoria Primary School at any time of the day; not quite Edinburgh, but have you seen Musselburgh high street: traffic queued up any time of the day because a 3 year old was put in charge of designing the traffic light phasing?
I could go on...
:(And another thing....
My son was at the local Primary School: It is a well thought of, well managed school that had out of catchment kids queuing to get in. A few years ago the Council (faced with cuts to the education budget) tried to close it, rather than a nearby rather run down, struggling comunity school. Now I'm sure the intention of the council was very well intentioned and also very P.C. but.....It is just this kind of wooly, well intentioned, upside-down logic that got the good city of Embra into the whole tram fiasco in the first place, and the same kind of wooly business accumen that was installed to oversee the project!
I drive in Edinburgh and other UK cities regularily. Despite what appear to be deliverate attempts by the council to introduce chaos over the last 20 years or so, Edinburgh is really not that bad. All the bigger cities I've driven in are worse, including Glasgow. Outside an hour or so of core commuting time in the morning, and again in the evening the roads are reasonably quiet.
Try driving into London, Manchester or Birmingham at rush hour for comparison!
The fundamental issue with the trams is that it's far, far too expensive for a solution that only benefits a small proportion of the population. That's even before over-runs and delays.
It's a shame that it didn't get put to a public vote like their other mad scheme the congestion charge. From informal discussions I think the tram scheme is actually significantly less popular than the congestion charge.
I would disagree on the glasgow traffic being worse thing.
You do also need to bare in mind that glasgow is 5 times the size of edinburgh too though.
