The Chairman has just jacked it in and gone for early retirement. Should they just retire the whole project?
I think they should.
Yes. Spend the money on the appalling state of the roads instead.
I liked the Evening News' front cover today 😀
[url= http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ ][img] http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/CustomPages/GetImage.aspx?ImageID=74188 [/img][/url]
It wouldn't be missed, that's for sure. Really would be a sublime celebration of incompetence if they called the whole thing off - would they leave the tracks in Princes St as a warning to others?
Nope. To jack it in now that they have spent all this money would be insane. Too late to stop. Let's at least get a ride on a tram out of it.
Thing is, the trams don't even go anywhere I'd want a ride on a tram to! I'm not sure what problem they're solving...
How much track have they actually laid? I can only think of a couple of hundred yards on princes street.
Thing has got to be less that a quarter of the way through. A thought which is absolutely terrifying.
IA - Allegedly - I think the problem that they were trying to solve was that one or more of the members of the council's construction firms didn't have enough work on... Just like when they decided to try and bankrupt all the shops on George Street.
They could have dualled the A9 north of perth for all the money already wasted. I like the idea of the tram but its not been delivered big waste of cash.
The yard In leith which is guarded 24hrs a day by a sleeping security man Is full of sleepers and rails ready to lay . This has got to be the worst waste of money ever. Scrap the whole idea reinstall the great bus service we used to have and build a rail spur from North gyle to the airport . Job done .
Dont get me started on the length of time the museum refurb and Commy pool is taking. 🙁
What is a thread like this without Hitler telling like it is.
Probably not safe for work due to understandable strong language.
Blimey - sounds even worse than the Cambridge Guided Bus!!
I thought they'd pulled all the hundreds of spoofs of that Hitler video that were going round, nice to see it back!
🙂
Too late now. So much work has been done they might as well finish
The project always was lunacy. Half a billion pounds (and counting) to lay just one tram line. I don't see why they couldn't have extended one of the train lines (e.g. the one that goes to Edinburgh Park already) to the airport.
The SNP tried to kill the project when they took over the Scottish Government but all the other parties outvoted them to keep it going.
They have nearly finished the Gogar depot & they are well underway with digging the tunnel under the A8. The tracks have been laid at Stenhouse and also by the new brdige at Edinburgh Park. I don't know about further east but I'd say the route from town to the airport is pretty well advanced.
They're past the point of no return finacially i think.
Completely unrequired as Edinburgh has a great bus service.
It's shocking that hundreds of millions will end up spent on this while the roads are a mess, cycle routes are underfunded and people regulary die on the non-dualed A9.
The wole thing is stupid. It neither interfaces properly with teh airport or teh main line trains. There is a ruddy train line on the airport estate anyway
Stupid half baked idea. Should be using the south suburban loop as well - the rails for that are still there
Should they just retire the whole project?
Yep.
Not to mention the dire need to start construction of the Forth Replacement Crossing if anyone in Fife wants to carry on commuting into Edinburgh without having to go via Kincardine...
Agree it was a joke to start with, i'd love to see the numbers they used to justify the trams as I can't see it reducing traffic much at all!
What I always found massively annoying about Edinburgh is the fact that the railway runs right past the airport, literally 1/4 mile from the end of the runway. Is there a station there? Is there hell. No, coming from the north you travel right past the airport into Edinburgh then get a bus or taxi back out to the airport.
Total lunacy.
thats the bit that is totally barking crazy legs - and the trams are not going to interface properly either at teh airport IIRC. Tehy certainly do not interface properly with the main line trains.
[url= http://archive.transformscotland.org.uk/campaigns/reopenthesouthsub/index.html ]Reopen the South Sub![/url] campaign page. Seems to have stalled somewhat judging by the last update.
It doesn't seem that transformative an idea IMHO, not that I'm an expert in how people move around Edinburgh. But it would cost peanuts as the line is currently in use by both freight and passenger services (IIRC one intercity goes right round it for some reason) so you're only talking about building some stations - glorified bus shelters really. Seems like an easy experiment to carry out.
Of course there's a reason the line closed in the first place.
Here is the closest thing I could find to the original business case, from 2007. Pretty impenetrable I reckon ! And lots of out of date assumptions.
They're meant to be working on an updated business case. Apparently this update shows that the trams are going to be profitable from year 1. Guffaw.
They should cancel it now.
I think the whole tram idea was just the Edinburgh Council transport loonies way of punishing the city for knocking back their ill thought out congestion charging plan.
are there any tram schemes that actually worked well both logistically and financially?
Manchester? It replaced a train service and interfaced with the rail stations properly
TJ the rails for the south sub line are still there as its still used as a freight line and for access to Craigentinny for empty passenger sets. But your right these derelict stations could be used again.
The new waverley line to gala could have been built and up and running for a fraction of the tramline cost also.
Sorry Garry didn't see your post.
TJ is right, Manchester trams aren't bad actually.
The current roadworks as they extend the system eastwards out to Oldham are incredibly annoying though.
But the trams fit in well with both the existing train and bus networks.
Any ideas what their plans are for hanging power cables in Princes Street?
Is'nt the power source coming from underneath on the new system .?
Manchester? It replaced a train service and interfaced with the rail stations properly
Aye, but do you remember the crap advertising campaign in the run-in to the referendum on funding the expansion.
Tag line: "What would you say to trams in to the heart of Rochdale?"
Most people in Manchester: "We don't live in Rochdale, or have any reason to go there"
Result: 'No' vote.
Andy
swtanfree -its overhead cables - on posts on princess street
stanfree - no. dont think so.
I'm surprised that the German company Bilfinger Berger is getting so much stick, zee Germans are normally spot on with building stuff, it's the UK companies that are usually pants.
Also with the parliament building being 3 years late and went from an estimate of £40mil to over £400mil final cost, it would seem Edinburgh stumbles from one embarrasement to another.
I think that the problems are based on the fact that there are a load of different companies doing small bits of the project rather than one company doing all of it like they do on every other tram project on the planet. One firm runs late so others have huge problems and the financial implications of that get passed on to the good people of edinburgh.
Oh ok then, I'll put up the case for the tram.
The trams are primarily required as in future years there wouldn't be enough bus capacity on Princes St to cope with the predicted increase in bus passengers. It can come to a standstill at the moment so fast forward 20 years and the buses would all be full with no room for any more.
The trams will provide a faster, more reliable journey time when compared to buses and are generally loved by residents of any city which has installed them. The tram will interface properly with the airport, anyone that says otherwise is a taxi driver/EEN reporter.
For sure some things have gone wrong (it's a huge project involving major works across an entire city - it's possible we could have expected this!) but hey, lets hang on in there and put up with a bit of pain to get a great modern public transport system for the future.
Surrounded by Zulus and TJ your right Im getting confused with the North Haymarket tunnel which Is in the process of electrification , Its to be powered from underneath as opposed to overheads. It amazes me that rail projects can be donw so quick , the haymarket tunnel will have been wired In just over 15 weeks (only working weekends) which Is a pretty massive achievement.
financial implications of that get passed on to the good people of edinburgh.
I think you mean the English........... :p
The Sheffield one was great despite at first sight linking together only 2 rough estates and the shopping center! Would have been better to re-build the link to Crooks (and thus the uni and student houses) but can't have everything.
Nice to see the News taking their traditionally unbiased position there 
They still like to pretend there's no traffic problems in central edinburgh. Head in the sand, no congestion charges, no trams... They were against the guided busway too til that turned out to be an enormous success then just quietly shut up. Until it turned out that it'd be closed for the trams, when it suddenly became an essential service that we'd be mad to lose.
Obviously the trams were badly planned and now badly executed but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. In particular I'd like to beat the owner of every shop on the tramline that's complained about distruption with a big stick, the same shops that have complained for years about traffic and losing business to out of town sites, quick to demand compensation will they be paying a share of their increased profits once the lines are open? Will they ****.
I've watched Edinburgh city centre dying off and choking up in my lifetime, maybe this isn't the perfect fix but all I've really seen is opposition, not alternatives.
TINAS - Most of the people in Edinburgh are English.
Ah the joys of looking back in time.
Sheffield has been through exactly this. All these arguments, praises, criticisms, conflicts, doom-mongering and general annoyance.
Now it is a profitable, popular form of transport around the city.
Sheffield is a good example of where it has worked.
Look up the historical reporting of opposition of TJ Killis cleaners. The tram was going to 'ruin' him. He's now making a mint as the tram runs right past his shop.
"and put up with a bit of pain to get a great modern public transport system for the future."
But it won't be - it's only one route, not a system. And we're running short of electricity apparently.
The guided buses lane was absolute madness - a driver could competently conduct a bus all the way across the city but suddenly needed guided assistance over a mile or so of virtually straight route? Bo....ks.
Ah the joys of looking back in time.Sheffield has been through exactly this. All these arguments, praises, criticisms, conflicts, doom-mongering and general annoyance.
Now it is a profitable, popular form of transport around the city.
Sheffield is a good example of where it has worked.
Look up the historical reporting of opposition of TJ Killis cleaners. The tram was going to 'ruin' him. He's now making a mint as the tram runs right past his shop.
I remember the Sheffield Supertram opening day. I think our school went on the inaugural Middlewood to Castle Square journey. I also remember the horror that was Sheffield during the tramworks. The roadworks in Edinburgh don't seem to be half as bad. Seems to be a hell of a lot of time and money just to link the airport with Leith, via Princes Street though.
what is most irritating is the fact we had trams in edinburgh when i was a boy. talk about progress
IMO the major drawback of the Sheffield tram is that the majority of it is on road much so doesn't offer that much benefit over buses, and when one breaks down you can't just push them off the road, granted that doesn't happen very often.
