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Also wondering if Nevis will be first uplift service in UK? One person or family group per gondola, but what cleaning would be required between uses?
Just leave all the windows in the gondolas open all the time? Could get breezy but surely qualifies them as 'outdoors'.
Any research into the effect of industrial quantities of Avon Skin-so-soft on Covid transmission?
Just leave all the windows in the gondolas open all the time? Could get breezy but surely qualifies them as ‘outdoors’.
When we were in that hazy not really lockdown period the ski centres continued to operate with either single individuals or family groups on each gondola/chair and socially distanced queues. I expect it will be similar as they reopen.
If they keep the phase reviews at 3 weeks we may go into phase 2 next Thursday and phase 3 on 9th July. Only once into phase 3 are we allowed to travel any distance for leisure or exercise.
We have been looking at cottages in Aviemore area and north of England, but only have a short window between 9th July and schools going back second week in August and there doesn’t appear to be much suitable availability.
Glencoe also have a chairlift 😉
I can see us camping a bit tbh, we were hoping to get away to one of the islands but I think that's completely unrealistic now. Thankfully we have a field we can get the use of so may have a few small gatherings if rules allow.
One for all those in education.
What occupancy of classrooms are your schools planning on operating at? For university lecture theatres, the current reckoning is 17% of capacity increasing to between 50% and 60% if the distancing is reduced to a metre. Assuming class sizes are halved, I'm struggling to see how all the kids can be accommodated even at half size. Moreover, I wonder what changes will need to be made to timetables in order to stagger kids moving around school between lessons? Single points of entry and exit to classrooms just add to the challenge of distancing as do narrow corridors unless you implement a one way system.
If anyone has any insight, I'm genuinely interested to know what you have been told as education providers? Stuff like this genuinely interests me from an operational delivery perspective. One of my friends is a teaching union rep at a secondary school in the central belt and he is at a loss to see quite how this is workable under current restrictions.
Anyone care to shed some light?
Cheers
Sanny
17% is about the average attendance at most of my lectures at Caley 😂
So what phase does wild camping come in at? 3 since above suggests long distance travel for leisure allowed then?
I’m struggling to see how all the kids can be accommodated even at half size
With practical class you’d have a max of 10 if the class sizes are halved. That shouldn’t be an issue. which means it should be easier for me to remember their names lol
So what phase does wild camping come in at? 3 since above suggests long distance travel for leisure allowed then?
I'm not really sure there's anything to say it can't be done in phase 1 or 2 Joe?.
I don't think we're going to see an announcement - wild camping is now allowed. It's not specifically ruled out in Phase 1. You are allowed to go 5 miles(ish) from home*. You can stop, picnic, fish, sunbathe, nap etc. during your time out of the house. There is no statement suggesting that this is only allowed during daylight hours. Does the virus magically become more dangerous after dark?
* I have countless suitable locations within 5 miles, including the one I used last weekend.
I’m not really sure there’s anything to say it can’t be done in phase 1 or 2 Joe?.
I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to spend a night away from home in phase 1 or 2.
What he said ^^ (edit - SR, not Iain)
Yeah, have just read the regs and can’t see any reference to overnight stays in Scotland, just the 5 mile thing.
I've gone (local) camping a couple of times.
Hey Sanny,
A lot of the school numbers stuff is going to depend on specific buildings. Our frankly bizarre school lay out means it looks like some rooms can potentially only accommodate 5 pupils.
In terms of the fine detail, most teachers don't know much more than you at this point.
The other elephant in the room (maybe that's why we're only getting 5 kids in) is how many teachers will be available at what points.
Yeah, have just read the regs and can’t see any reference to overnight stays in Scotland, just the 5 mile thing.
I went through both the legislation and the guidance on scotgov.uk. If it's ok for me to head up to Loch Morlich for a nap on the beach in the afternoon then I really do fail to see how being out at night makes any difference, other than I'm even less likely to come into close contact with anyone. Anyway, I'm sure it's not camping if I don't use a tent 😉
The other elephant in the room (maybe that’s why we’re only getting 5 kids in) is how many teachers will be available at what points.
This is what’s worrying me. It’s my NQT year plus I have 3 kids at school and the wife is a key worker in the NHS. Teenager can stay at home alone but he other 2 can’t.
I think the general idea behind the ‘no overnight stays’ was that limiting travel to day trips puts a natural distance on where people would travel to. Of course you’ll be able to pick holes in it so feel free to fit the narrative to what you want to do, no reason not to.
I’m pretty sure a cheeky overnight et with appropriate caution and respect to landowners who may not wish you on properties etc would be fine, and has been for many people since day 1.
This is what’s worrying me. It’s my NQT year plus I have 3 kids at school and the wife is a key worker in the NHS. Teenager can stay at home alone but he other 2 can’t.
My worry is that it's going to be shit and that all really good schools and authorities will achieve is slightly less shitness.
I'm not generally a negative person but that's how I'm feeling about this. Sorry!
Hi Spin and everyone else.
Really interesting insights there.
The big challenge as I see it is planning for the unknown. While the ambition to get kids back is a good one, it is going to be a tough one to achieve in the current circumstances. I think what is fairly clear looking at the English approach is that ultimately all decisions will be political ones.
Getting kids into and out of school, having them move between classes and teaching them remotely as opposed to the current approach in Glasgow schools of just setting daily revision tasks on the Seesaw App all present challenges. A significant proportion of teachers at my daughters school have children so their ability to work will be dependent on the care they can put in place for their own children.
While saying that kids will be in 2 days a week is as reasonable an aim as any, I wonder how long it will be before parental and political pressure is brought to bear in the teaching profession? It is not hard to imagine teachers getting it in the neck the longer the current situation continues.
It's classic burning platform type stuff. The status quo isn't an option. With lockdown, we have had one clear goal but as things relax just a little, all manner of competing goals will come to the fore and they won't all play nicely together. The only thing we can be sure of us uncertainty!😁
One last point. I fully expect the attainment gap to widen. Down here in Glasgow, some of the private schools have really stepped up with their online teaching. The local authority approach is lagging behind in comparison at primary level at least. With so many homes without proper IT access, it has all the ingredients for a right old mess sadly.
Personally, I would like to see one week on, one week off for all pupils with additional in school support offered for kids in care and from vulnerable backgrounds. It would mean an extra day of contact time for every child every two weeks but also provide support those kids who really need it. The two days per week just feels like it lacks ambition or am I being too critical?
Given all the pressure to reduce the 2m rule for businesses I wonder if that might happen with schools.
Personally, I would like to see one week on, one week off for all pupils
That would be my preference but there may be negatives I haven't considered. Could be difficult with childcare I suppose.
Nobeerinthefridge
I’m not really sure there’s anything to say it can’t be done in phase 1 or 2 Joe?.
scotroutes
I don’t think we’re going to see an announcement – wild camping is now allowed. It’s not specifically ruled out in Phase 1. You are allowed to go 5 miles(ish) from home*. You can stop, picnic, fish, sunbathe, nap etc. during your time out of the house. There is no statement suggesting that this is only allowed during daylight hours. Does the virus magically become more dangerous after dark?* I have countless suitable locations within 5 miles, including the one I used last weekend.
Yeah I was thinking the allowed unlimited time outside could be interpreted as camping allowed. The distance thing is limiting, don't really want go camping in cathkin braes! 😆
Guess it's really just the distance thing that's the biggest limiting factor. I'll have a read about phase 2 and 3, interpret myself.
Think you are right that they'll probably not want to say anything about wild camping, as it'd probably open the floodgates tbh.
Sanny
SubscriberOne last point. I fully expect the attainment gap to widen. Down here in Glasgow, some of the private schools have really stepped up with their online teaching. The local authority approach is lagging behind in comparison at primary level at least. With so many homes without proper IT access, it has all the ingredients for a right old mess sadly.
Yup. TBH I'm not sure it was possible for it to go any other way but it's still depressing
My worry is that it’s going to be shit and that all really good schools and authorities will achieve is slightly less shitness
yes I agree. The attainment gap is going to widen. Those who can afford tutors and have good access to ICT will be far ahead of those that can't. Going to have to be massive investment in ICT in a lot of schools and where is that money going to come from?
Short answer to school question.
In SBC
Focus is S4+ they will get 1 lesson in each subject each week (at least) BGE will shoehorn around that. All will have blended learning.
The day changes. To 3 teaching sessions of 90 minutes a day over 4 days, one day for prep and marking of online stuff. Staff can expect to be full contact in school.
That's all we know/are being told. There's an active don't tell the staff while in discussion policy at HQ.
We will get new structures and policies probably last week of term.
Attainment gap is a worry, although there's a lot more to it than access to equipment. Some of my 13 year old daughters friends have done nowt in terms of school work since schools were shut, parents are by no means short of cash either.
Parental motivation is a big factor, I don't particularly push her, but expect her to do a few hours a day.
Some of her teachers have given no home stuff to do either tbh, her English teacher frinstance, which is disappointing.
Her school is relatively newly built, and has huge open spaces, distancing will certainly be easier there than it will be in my old school, built in the early 1900s.
Some of my 13 year old daughters friends have done nowt in terms of school work since schools were shut,
We've had a lot of this. Way more than I expected. I expected certain kids to not engage but there have been an awful lot of pupils who are normally engaged in class that have just disappeared. All sorts of reasons for this. I've done what I can about it but the school has been very poor at following it up.
The variation in what's being done between (and even within) schools is huge and even those who are doing the best are really just firefighting.
@sanny give me a buzz if you want, not that I'll be able to tell you much.
I've heard on the grapevine that Glasgow wasn't in great shape before this in terms of IT provision and online platforms so it will have been a struggle for them.
Stats from Track and Trace;
Scotland - each infected person has an average of 1.5 contacts to be traced.
England - each infected person has an average of 6 contacts to be traced..
That seems like a huge disparity given the process and criteria are pretty much identical.
With regards to camping; there is a line in the outdoor access guidance that says “keep to day trips which do not involve camping or other overnight stays“. It’s just guidance though.
That seems like a huge disparity given the process and criteria are pretty much identical.
I wonder how much of it is down to their more rapid relaxation of lockdown? That's something else to consider, more relaxed rules=more pressure on the track and trace programs.
More from Lewis Buchanan. The main video isn't lockdown related but he has a talk at the beginning about some of the noise he's got about riding the golfie in the video last week.
An interesting opinion from him, and I'm assuming DMBINS who seem to be announcing what can/ can't be ridden, that the Forestry Commission don't "own " the unofficial rider built trails that are on Forestry Commission land. I can only see that debate ending in problems
As a guy who has just moved back to Scotland, and whose kids will all be joining Scottish schooling, it is interesting seeing how the attitudes here differ from Switzerland.
There, kids went back 4 weeks ago, full time if middle school or under). No distancing in classrooms (certainly in Basel), only that teachers are kept at distance. PE looks a little different as no contact sports and more 'spread' out. If teacher is at risk, or married to/lives with someone at risk they are not in the classroom but are doing distance lessons. obviously kindergarten/early years is a free for all so that doesn't apply. they just crack on regardless. Senior kids (15 and older) went back this week full time.
This is based on the Swiss believe that kids (choose your age cut off) don't get or transmit.
If they do, the classes they interact with are all put into quarantine/self isolation for 2 weeks.
Last week a school in Basel had to send 45 kids into a 2 week quarantine, and this week a school very close to the ones our kids go to had 70 kids put into quarantine, as a 14yr old was confirmed with C-19 (though unsymptomatic).
Now, the swiss have a very relaxed and open attitude to risk and death, and by and large the schools reopening has been a godsend for everyone and well supported. Switzerland also is run by a sham government and is basically facist country with a state controlled media, so I'm pretty sure we are not told everything that is going on. Very much the opposite to hysterical UK reporting.
Given that I guess we can assume the general epidemiological factors are consistent across Europe (ish?), is there any reason why a similar approach cannot be applied in Scotland in August? C-19 will be dramatically reduced by then, and all the current approaches seem a wee bit unrealistic.
Thoughts? anyone on here have any power to influence the policy?
is there any reason why a similar approach cannot be applied in Scotland in August? C-19 will be dramatically reduced by then, and all the current approaches seem a wee bit unrealistic.
I mentioned on another thread (or possibly this one!) that part of me just thought F"£$ it, get them all in and see what happens. I think the Scottish govt is in part being super cautious because they've already been burned with the care home thing.
Just got my email from renfrewshire council, primary school kids going back on the 12th August. Will go either monday/tuseday or thursday/friday with Wednesday as cleaning day. No school buses as yet and no mention of school lunches
Given that I guess we can assume the general epidemiological factors are consistent across Europe (ish?), is there any reason why a similar approach cannot be applied in Scotland in August?
Impact in UK based on available statistics shows that UK is currently in a much worse situation than Switzerland, which is likely a key factor too.
Death rate in the UK thus far have been 3x higher than Switzerland per million population, and while Switzerland is reporting around 20 new cases per day at the moment, UK is still reporting over 1000 cases per day.
Personally while having the kids at home is a pain in the ass for many reasons, and the home schooling support on offer has been atrocious, I'm in no real rush to get them back into school.
Parental motivation is a big factor
As is parental availability.
We've both been WFH full time for the entire lockdown but are expected to effectively home school a current P7, an S3 and an S5 at the same time.
It's not been easy. The schools have been useless in providing any support to help us. They just punt some generic worksheets onto Teams and expect the kids to get on with it.
This might be of interest to those with school age kids and the teachers on here. It's the results of a survey on parents' thoughts and feelings on the current situation and return to school.
Have been told by our parent council that the council have confirmed our school will run at 33% capacity when we return in August, unclear yet how that will work in practice but I'd heard previously that the council were considering a schedule of every group of kids going 3 days a week, every 3 weeks.
This is in Edinburgh, though it's not clear whether this is a blanket council policy or school specific, I do know our school has particular space issues so expect it would be hard for them to accomodate 50% of kids while keeping any sort of distancing in place.
Have to say that while I understand the challenges, it's a pretty shit rubbish situation, for both the quality of learning (which has been terrible at our school) and trying to fit work around.
An interesting opinion from him, and I’m assuming DMBINS who seem to be announcing what can/ can’t be ridden, that the Forestry Commission don’t “own ” the unofficial rider built trails that are on Forestry Commission land. I can only see that debate ending in problems
DMBINS put out a statement yesterday saying unoffical trails can be ridden. Apparently certain people knew this before hand even though the official website covid-19 guidelines were to only do low level cycling.
That is a fairly extraordinary statement from DMBINS considering that their public advice to date has been very much don't ride any trails. This is taken from a Tweedlove Facebook post on the 5th June.
'The Tweed Valley MTB trails are closed. Trail centres are closed, the car parks are closed, public toilets are closed. Yes you can debate what is an official/MTB trail and what’s not, but it’s clear that Forestry and Land Scotland and the Scottish Government do not want anyone riding MTB trails on land they manage (which includes all the main Tweed Valley forest areas). So please be cool and help us get out of this nightmare ASAP.
Since this all kicked off, most people have shown admirable restraint in sticking to the guidelines, and the MTB community should be applauded for that. Let’s keep it that way.'
I think that was possibly aimed at keeping folks from travelling to the area really (I'm not exactly DMBiS biggest fan, normally) to be fair. Who knows, they ain't the best at comms at the best of times.
If I lived in the valley, I'd have been riding there for sure, I can understand them closing facilities, but I'm not sure FC or anyone has any more of a right to close trails off, even in these circumstances.
If a local landowner here closed off access, I'd pay no attention to it.
This is in Edinburgh, though it’s not clear whether this is a blanket council policy or school specific,
The exact figures and methods may vary, but all Edinburgh schools are back at partial capacity.
The exact figures and methods may vary, but all Edinburgh schools are back at partial capacity.
I know that much, obviously. My point was it is not clear whether the 33% school capacity is blanket policy or school specific. Common sense would be that it is school specific, depending on what space each school has, but common sense isn't always something the council are good at.
If a local landowner here closed off access, I’d pay no attention to it.
Why ? What right do you think you have ?
Why ? What right do you think you have ?
The legal right we all have in Scotland lol
NZCol
Member
If a local landowner here closed off access, I’d pay no attention to it.Why ? What right do you think you have ?
to access.
I think those 2 have answered for me NZCol 😏
It's school specific, based on risk and space assessments.
That said, most schools are looking between 25-40% from what Govt. is hearing.
Interesting. Thanks.
I teach in Perth and Kinross. We are planning for each year group coming in for 2 days per week. Each day will be split up into 4 blocks to minimize movement. The plan is to utilize as many spaces as possible for teaching including halls, gyms, canteen etc to enable us to teach standard classes of 30. That is the relatively easy bit. The hard bit is break-time, lunch, arrivals and departures, toilets.
Personally I can’t see the kids playing ball which will make things interesting.
Any idea why the schools aren’t taking on other council or available spaces to increase capacity? Council gyms and leisure facilities, music venues, church halls etc?
Any idea why the schools aren’t taking on other council or available spaces to increase capacity? Council gyms and leisure facilities, music venues, church halls etc?
You need to staff them as well as have the physical space. Then you’ve got extra headaches like feeding them (some schools are certainly suggesting no school bags which I assume = no packed lunches). You’ll need enough staff to cope not just with normality but a crisis (if you have 20 kids in a church hall 1/2 mile from main school what happens if a teacher or pupil is suddenly very unwell etc). Then there will be issues around toilets, Internet/it etc. these are the sort of headaches education departments face after a school fire - but usually only for one school, and it takes them a couple of weeks to get solutions in place.
North Ayrshire, unsurprisingly, has been radio silence since 13/05. Probably still trying to find the other cheek.
So staffing levels is probably the only significant issue?
I’m not seeing any innovative ideas being tried. Would be interested to find out who is doing the planning.
So staffing levels is probably the only significant issue?
No.
Access to handwashing and toilets.
Access to resources, from books to online.
Outdoor space.
Building security and outdoors security.
Support staff.
Buildings not designed for children / other adults not PVG/DBS in the building.
If you've two kids and they're based on two different sites, how do you drop off or collect as a parent?
Using other buildings means that other functions then suffer.
None of these issues are insurmountable, but remember the UK government has not offered an extra penny in funding to make it all happen. Speak to your MP.
Reading all the UNESCO advice last night, it looks like things will improve for school provision this autumn if we don't see a second wave.
Would be interested to find out who is doing the planning.
In Westminster / DfE it's rather obscure and they don't seem to want to engage very well. It's being driven by a few big tech education companies imo. They just seem to announce. Also bear in mind in England half the schools are in effect a private entity, who now do not contribute to a central planning or resourcing service via a local authority.
In Scotland I can give you names of the civil servants doing so, tell you the 11 workstream, how they are consulting widely. Each local authority is on a similar journey, and each school and early years setting, within a set of published guidance.
Wales is similar to Scotland it seems.
The trails is an interesting question with the guidance that came out last year there seemed to be a move towards trails being "adopted" by either landowners or groups/builders. The question becomes one of liability. If landowner days shut then liability shifts.
I know an area near me are welcoming walkers from the postcode but would rather MTBs stayed away. I'll be staying away because, well it's their ball they could easily harvest/coppice through the trails.
sportscotland are saying you can ignore the 5 mile limit if you are an elite athlete and need to travel for training purposes. That's pretty much everyone on here, right?
Oh scotroutes, you are a one.
scotroutes
sportscotland are saying you can ignore the 5 mile limit if you are an elite athlete and need to travel for training purposes. That’s pretty much everyone on here, right?
Mmm, ever thought of myself as one, but it does give me an excuse. Competed in 3 world championships, several EU ones, not to mention UK.
But I doubt being nearly the tail end charlie in those events really qualifies me. 🙂
sportscotland are saying you can ignore the 5 mile limit if you are an elite athlete and need to travel for training purposes. That’s pretty much everyone on here, right
The wording they used was "professional or performance athlete"
Performance Athlete is a weird term but they've defined who this applies to here
None of these issues are insurmountable, but remember the UK government has not offered an extra penny in funding to make it all happen. Speak to your MP.
In Perth, we have council controlled spaces which could be used. 2 decent sized leisure centres with outdoor space, concert hall with umpteen practice rooms, a theatre. All standing empty. Of course there remain some challenges, but apparent the lack of imagination is frustrating.
So our school has somewhere near 100 classrooms and 90 staff. Rooms are not the problem staff to staff them are. Although it a great opportunity for the "teaching is easy" brigade to step in for supervising the holding/homework rooms.
Then you've got setting of meaningful and worthwhile work (we don't know how that'll work) splitting a class in two means teaching and homeworking work needs planned set and checked at the moment our outline plan until December gives only 3hours per week for this (in school). This is setting of work that doesn't exist yet. It's taken me 6 weeks to write a blended learning earth sciences topic with expts for NGE so it achieves the level 3 and 4 outcomes with differentiation. That's a 6 week topic taking 6 weeks to write. On top of everything else. It's a challenge but also an opportunity.
That’s a 6 week topic taking 6 weeks to write.
And all teachers are writing bespoke lesson plans? Is there any scope to share the planning of lessons?
And all teachers are writing bespoke lesson plans? Is there any scope to share the planning of lessons?
Now if ever would be the time for centrally produced materials but SG doesn't have a great track record on that. I believe there will be some centrally produced Literacy and Numeracy materials.
The sciences each have unofficial groups where we share stuff. As with all these things folk do a power of work and some just take. I'll share mine but even then I'd expect most teachers to spend time making it work for them. I use the courses of others but it take me summer to make it how I want it. And that's before making it blended friendly.
But different schools work things differently which is an issue.
As with all these things folk do a power of work and some just take.
first thing we were told when I started my PGDE last year was to become a kleptomaniac.
scotroutes
Subscribersportscotland are saying you can ignore the 5 mile limit if you are an elite athlete and need to travel for training purposes.
Well, it's their job, so if they can't work from home I suppose they were always allowed to?
The definition of "performance athlete" seems quite restrictive to me.
It presupposes you're a member of a club or an organisation, or professional (if I've read it right).
For example, the classification doesn't seem to cover individual who will be contesting the World Solo 24 hours (if it's still on - the Euros are postponed to next year). Pretty hard to train for a 24 hour with a 5 mile limit.
There is probably the same problem in some other endurance sport too.
That's not a complaint - there's 2 vulnerable members in my family, so I've been very observant of the guidelines.
There's no 5 mile limit in reality, not when the likes my inlaws drive 20 miles to go to a ****in garden centre.
There’s no 5 mile limit in reality, not when the likes my inlaws drive 20 miles to go to a **** garden centre.
The 5 mile limit is only with regards to exercise. You can travel as far as you want (with the only limiting factor being needing to use a toilet) to visit someone, sit around drinking, sunbathe, go to a shop etc. but absolutely can't do any exercise while there.
Pretty hard to train for a 24 hour with a 5 mile limit.
The 5 mile limit is about how far you can drive to take exercise. Why does that make it hard to train for a 24 hour?
kcr
The 5 mile limit is about how far you can drive to take exercise. Why does that make it hard to train for a 24 hour?
Suitable terrain.
Suitable terrain
I still don't get it. Where in Scotland can you not ride from the door and train for a 24 hour?
Tinker Juarez trained for 24 hour races on a turbo, staring at a blank wall for 24 hours, according to legend.
In the English system exam boards are moving towards providing and sharing resources, which is new.
The 5 Mile local limit applies to visiting as well. Guidance was quietly changed with no announcement.
I think this is latest version.