Forum menu
They have ignored the tier thresholds previously outlined as going by the numbers we should be edging level 2 now
Really? It hadn't occurred to me to check the current figures against last years tier guidance. Do you have a link to it?
I've just been going by this graph and thinking that case rates are still too high.
The way she was speaking today tho, because there's more prevalence of the more transmissible varient, they're going to be taking things more slowly.
Doesnt look like any restrictions will be changed until all the kids are back at school.
Next week's announcement will just be the order in which things will happen, rather than the dates that they will happen
The way she was speaking today tho, because there’s more prevalence of the more transmissible varient, they’re going to be taking things more slowly.
I've just spent an entertaining hour reading the docs issued to schools regarding the return. It's all about tightening things up as a result of the new variant(s). Physical distancing for pupils and masks in classes etc. I think they'll be very cautious with any other relaxations until they see how that pans out.
I suppose whatever they do, or announce or implement, we've got to really wait a month to see it those plans set forth another rise of infections.
As it appears they have the past year. Every new idea has led to where we are now.
They have ignored the tier thresholds previously outlined as going by the numbers we should be edging level 2 now
There was never one criteria for moving between levels, it was about multiple factors, the trend on parameters and a general judgement call. The hospitality industry in Edinburgh were furious in December and IIRC went to court in a failed attempt to claim that they must use a simple criteria like new cases.
On R5 on Friday night I was listening to discussion that said Primary school pupils are 2x more likely to bring Covid into a household and 2x more likely to pass it on to a family member than an adult.
Do you know who was saying that? Because it is essentially at odds with the sort of thing being reported elsewhere eg. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/01/three-studies-highlight-low-covid-risk-person-school
What do people think my chance of the long planned long trek in Scotland in May being allowed? We would be walking and mainly wild camping.
I think it’s unlikely - not impossible yet but unlikely. If it was end of may it would be more likely than the start. They’ll certainly not want to encourage a mass of wild camping with the inevitable crap hygiene and waste issues that the public wil bring (I am aware you are responsible but the rules have to deal with the idiots too). If you are lucky you might get to B&bs and some unofficially forbidden but sufficiently hidden not to count wild camping - but my money would be on day trips only until late may at least.
Has there been any discussion regarding vaccinating the teachers for those returning classes?
Gut feel says they should.
Science says no evidence to support it.
If politics overrules the JCVI you open up a minefield and a queue of other professions screaming what about us.
Thanks Poly *gets ready to throw tantrum*
IMO if Hotels / campsites are open then wild camping is OK
scotroutes
Full Member
They have ignored the tier thresholds previously outlined as going by the numbers we should be edging level 2 nowReally? It hadn’t occurred to me to check the current figures against last years tier guidance. Do you have a link to it?
Hadn't thought to look at this in a while, myself.
[img] 
[/img]
tjagain
Full Member
Thanks Poly *gets ready to throw tantrum*IMO if Hotels / campsites are open then wild camping is OK
Yip, agreed.
So primary 1-3’s back from Monday 22nd, I bet there’ll be a few glad of that.
****. Yes.
What are they manky buggers in East Ayrshire up to?
IMO if Hotels / campsites are open then wild camping is OK
I'd say it's the travel restrictions that would be the limiting factor. If we're allowed to travel between regions by the date you'd planned then I'd say crack on and do your walk regardless of whether campsites etc are open.
What are they manky buggers in East Ayrshire up to?
Outbreak in a prison has swollen the east Ayrshire numbers.
Looks as though the self catering accommodation booked for Easter isn't going to happen. Bugger.
Still, Christmas eh?
It will be all over by christmas
It will be all over by christmas
Yes, but what year?
Aye, I think we'll all be staying in our LA areas until at least June if they can can get all the kids back to school. I also think teachers should be vaccinated now, we definitely need them to be at work 😉
Wife is getting her second jab in two weeks (HDU nurse) so it's all moving in the right direction. I think the government is just rightly being cautious.
BTW, wtf does Reporting Scotland insist on calling them jags when everyone else calls it a jab, is it a central belt thing as nobody calls them that up here.
Nice to see P&K mirroring St Johnstone's mid table mediocrity place.
BTW, wtf does Reporting Scotland insist on calling them jags when everyone else calls it a jab, is it a central belt thing as nobody calls them that up here.
Because that's what they are called. WTF do you call nettles, jabbies?
Outbreak in a prison has swollen the east Ayrshire numbers.
Ah, that would explain it.
BTW, wtf does Reporting Scotland insist on calling them jags when everyone else calls it a jab, is it a central belt thing as nobody calls them that up here.
I was watching a feed from Holyrood where MSPs were using jag
Can any of the endemics explain where it comes from?
Because that’s what they are called. WTF do you call nettles, jabbies?
Nettles of course 🙄 Or stinging nettles 😉
They're jabs, everybody I know calls them jabs, wife who is a nurse calls them jabs, she asked at work and they're jabs. I'm convinced it's a central belt thing, bloods jags... that's a footy team 😆
Always Jags to me - same as Partick Thistle - the Jags not the Jabs
Thats the point Bob!
I have just been called to get my second JAG! I only had my first 3 weeks or so ago. I need to make an appointment which could be a week or so away
Cant see why it has to be national lock down now, why not ease the restrictions locally where rates are low.
When Aberdeen had a spike it was locked down it wasn't a national thing, so why not ease it in low transmission areas?
What's the thought process behind keeping it at a national level?
They’re jabs, everybody I know calls them jabs, wife who is a nurse calls them jabs, she asked at work and they’re jabs. I’m convinced it’s a central belt thing, bloods jags… that’s a footy team
Remember the scone map? That.
Bruneep - I think (or is that hope?) we will get back to local restrictions fairly soon. However, I think there may be some caution because, clearly it didn’t work quite as well as hoped for in Nov/Dec:
But one of the issues is where people are working (or making other permitted journeys across county boundaries) there is not the segregation that appears on paper - so a large employer in Livingston will probably have people from Lanarkshire, Falkirk, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Fife etc. Someone in Lanarkshire might be going home to a family member who works in Glasgow with other people from Dumbartonshire, Renfrewshire and inverclyde. Etc, etc.
But I’ve heard some ridiculous stories (albeit third hand) this week of 1. Someone travelling from Renfrewshire to Moray and staying overnight to buy a car - because they’ve been vaccinated (1st dose) so “will be fine”; 2. Someone who tested positive going to a family member’s house to take their dog for a walk because “it’s ok so long as you wear a mask”...; 3. Panic in a (large) employer when one of their staff tested positive and nobody seemed to have a plan and had not have thought through all the completely predictable interactions the various teams were having with each other. “If T&T tell us all to isolate we shut down the whole of our business in Scotland for two weeks”...
Until we either find a way to enforce or incentivise (preferably both) compliance we are stuck in this stupid loop.
scotroutes
Full MemberRemember the scone map? That.
Gottcha 😉
I see contacts of those infected are now going to be required to get a test, just the 8 months too late with that. It should have been the central policy from june onwards. (ie if you feel sick, isolate regardless, and test everyone around an infected person, to at a minimum 1 level, ie actively attempt to restrict transmission)
Probably a tacit admission that the testing has been a shambles.
The whole thing has been a bloody shambles. We're a bloody island, we should have been at this point a year ago.
Oh yeah, something something civil liberties. How's that working out for you all?
The whole thing has been a bloody shambles. We’re a bloody island, we should have been at this point a year ago.
yip, whole island should have been shut down like NZ did. Stupid ****s in power down in Westminster
@Poly and anyone else interested:
On R5 on Friday night I was listening to discussion that said Primary school pupils are 2x more likely to bring Covid into a household and 2x more likely to pass it on to a family member than an adult.
Do you know who was saying that?
Friday 12 Feb Radio 5 Stephen Nolan Listen at about 20 mins in.
Thanks TroutWrestler that reminds me why I don’t listen to 5live! I’ve had a quick skim of the ONS “long covid” data she spent most of the time talking about. I’m not sure it says what she thinks it does. It definitely doesn’t support her claim there are millions of primary school children with covid and 1:7 have long covid - at that point I started to question her credibility, I can’t find the data she has which she claimed shows twice as many infections. I heard some interesting suggestions today that a big issue with returning to schools is the school gate transmission amongst parents...
Yes, the school drop off pre Xmas was concerning. Although masks were worn by parents many chose to stand closely chatting and the playground was pretty busy - hard to keep 2m away. Only parents of P1s and 2s were permitted to be on the grounds but it’s a big school and my P1 child has been pretty anxious about school since starting - def not ready to be dropped at the gate.
We have received information about our kids returning to school. It is made very clear that parents should wear masks at all times near the gates and should not congregate or chat. I could put money on the gang that will "head off for a quick coffee" once they have dropped their kids off.
Deepti Gurdasani's Twitter makes for interesting reading. I am not sure I doubt her credibility.
I wrote a long reply but for the umpteenth time STW on iOS/safari crashed!
In brief she’s conflating causation and correlation, assuming extension of a biased sample is valid to the wider population, mislabelling one lingering symptom as long covid and presuming the solution she is widely advocating for solves the problem. I agree with her that schools/DFE should be looking at risk mitigation - but they also need to be careful that they don’t get so obsessed with the in classroom safety they ignore all the other things which opening schools is linked to (parents returning to work, parental mixing, public perception of risk etc).
100%. The reopening of schools cannot be seen in isolation, and that is what I took as one of her main points.
Well it appears to have been eased if the big road groups out today are to be believed !
Was out for my local home loop, 24 miles of back roads and while it was great mild weather, though rather windy, I was stunned by the number of groups of 4 plus riders out on group rides. 3 or 4 bunches of 6 plus, probably a dozen groups of 3 or 4, all in an hour and a half...
If we follow England then travel restrictions could be lifted by 17/5, my trip is planned for 21/5. A tad close for comfort!
Likely to be slower in Scotland would be my bet
I'd put money on it being slower.
There will be deviations purely for the simple fact that there can be deviations. Frankly I think everyone has given up and is doing their own version of 'being sensible' and as soon as stuff starts to ease there won't be enough fingers for the dyke.
There will be deviations purely for the simple fact that there can be deviations. Frankly I think everyone has given up and is doing their own version of ‘being sensible’ and as soon as stuff starts to ease there won’t be enough fingers for the dyke.
The large groups of adults and full car park at the beach 10 minutes walk from my house on Sunday gave me the same impression. There absolutely will be pointless confusing deviations due to the upcoming elections. It would be political suicide for the SNP to now say that the best thing is for the UK to act together and that they agree with the prime minister.
Too much caution could penalise the SNP as well because people really are fed up with the lockdown.
I am praying that the SG at least follow the lead of the UK government and allow gyms to re-open around the same time :fingerscrossed:
I am praying that the SG at least follow the lead of the UK government and allow gyms to re-open around the same time :fingerscrossed:
Gyms, swimming pools and travelling for outdoor exercise should be top of the list. Of course, they wont be pubs and restaurants will be because to the general population getting 10 pints in down the pub is the most important metric of success and will be the vote winner.
Why should gyms be top of the list? High risk of infection and low utility in my book
I’d put money on it being slower.
English announcement was 5 weeks between stages, but Scotland appears to be going for 3?
More stages and less incremental differences maybe though?
Why should gyms be top of the list? High risk of infection and low utility in my book
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54540188
That data puts gyms on 2.8%, while supermarkets are 11.2%, pubs and bars are 7.4% and secondary schools are 6.8%.
Most importantly, there's a looming health crisis as a result of lockdown impact on physical activity. People are moving less and eating more and drinking more. I can't find the link but I read that alcohol related deaths have increased by 12.5% since this began. Gyms are a hugely important thing for a lot of people, even if you don't use them.
About 930 of those said they had been to the gym - that's 2.8% of all the common locations reported. We don't know if they caught it at the gym - we just know they visited the gym.
Is that a lot? It's hard to tell - you need to take into account how many people visit a gym regularly compared with, for example, a supermarket.
The point is that for the latest week, gyms came sixth on the list of common locations, ahead of people attending universities, people working in care homes and people going shopping for clothes.
I'm desperate for swimming pools to re-open but I can accept that they're hardly a priority and are likely a higher risk than any form of outdoor exercise (even taking into account the mitigation measures employed last summer).
Premier Icon
tjagain
Full MemberLikely to be slower in Scotland would be my bet
Agreed, expecting to be postponing as soon as the details are known. OTOH we could be back at the silly stage of England being free to travel but should be stopping at the border. Not really sure how it’ll play out
It would be political suicide for the SNP to now say that the best thing is for the UK to act together and that they agree with the prime minister.
You say that as though his announcement was a sensible approach. "Data not Dates", "now here's the dates". "Irreversible" but could be reversed if we had to (so clearly not irreversible). There are already nuances where there is disparity: P1-3 this week v's ALL on 8th; Groups of under 12s allowed to mix outdoors in Scotland; etc. My guess is she will actually find a few things to open up before England as well as keeping some stuff closed longer. She definitely will not announce an "end date" in June. I suspect she'll be less enthusiastic about opening pubs and more keen to allow household mixing, but not the "30 outdoors" stuff he has in his! I think there is an argument for regional variation in Scotland - and that's a big change to what seemed to be mentioned yesterday.
So far more measured and more caveats it seems
- schools not rushing back until we are sure they are not an increase in transmission rates. Perhaps March 15th for rest of primarys, maybe some more secondary
- worried by foreign travel will import other variants which vaccine may not work on
- March 15th also more outdoor sports and youth meetings (eg scouts)
- April 5th - lots more easing in time for the holidays, complete with travel restrictions, some meeting as households outdoors, possibly more retail opening./
- April 26th moving back into level 3, hopefully.
Levelling/tiering returns 26th April.
Non-essential retail, hairdressers and gyms end of April too.
March 15 - more school return. Outdoors non-contact sports for teenagers. Adults allowed 4 from 2 households outdoors.
Mid April to remove "stay at home" guidance.
No further indicative dates until mid March.
no Easter Holidays then... Ach well, nothing booked so fair do's.
– April 26th moving back into level 3, hopefully.
Sooooo close and yet so far, this changes nothing from an outdoor exercise/fun times point of view 😥😥
Roll on tier 2! Mid may? Maybe I could tentatively book some accommodation for then...
In my heart I think it's the right timeframe but far out another 7 weeks of being locked doesn't feel great esp. as it's been like this since October. I honestly think people will just say f-it and start to move around a lot more on the England timeframe. Does seem odd i can go to Church at Easter but not be in my self contained van somewhere. Hey ho. Hopefully May.
The dates are indicative at the moment and she said that they could be brought forward if the data backs it up.
Was there a misspoken message about 5th April and schools? Most will be just starting Easter not returning full role.
timeframe but far out another 7 weeks of being locked doesn’t feel great esp. as it’s been like this since October. I honestly think people will just say f-it and start to move around a lot more
This is my concern too. Without a (hopeful) date in sight, folk are just going to ignore sensible guidance.
Roll on tier 2! Mid may? Maybe I could tentatively book some
3 week time slots for changes, so Mid-may is a possibility.
– April 5th – lots more easing in time for the holidays
Is it not the opposite - 5th April is Easter Monday - so keeping the restriction tight until past the problematic Easter weekend. Most Scottish schools reopen after Easter on 12th April so I guess it will be full steam ahead for the last term.
April 26th feels a long way away.
If indoor facilities open up and we are still subject to the horrible postcode lottery, the advice being ignored may reasonably be considered as not sensible.
In my heart I think it’s the right timeframe but far out another 7 weeks of being locked doesn’t feel great esp. as it’s been like this since October. I honestly think people will just say f-it and start to move around a lot more
Yup, and my concern too. I totally get how some folk must feel - I was hoping for an easing of the 'stay at home' restriction in particular, but know the data doesn't lend itself to anytime earlier at the moment.
Gutted as my 'local' MTBing trails and buddies that I'd normally ride weekly with and haven't seen since October remain just out of reach for another 6/7 weeks - and I mean legally around 5 miles out of reach. But then there's bigger concerns than that.
I am just gutted about the whole thing. I know its right and I am confident that the scottish government are at least attempting to take the right decisions for the right reasons but I have had it with the restrictions
the aspect that really worries me is the mental toll this is taking on folk is reaching tipping point I feel and that without a summer of trade much hospitality will be finished off.
On a personal level that my 60th birthday / retirement party cancelled, my long planned long awaited big walk in doubt and my mental resilience is diminishing
TBH I think it's probably a good sign if it's making me go "that seems far off" rather than "That's obviously too fast. But yep I was surprised by how demoralising I found hearing the dates.
Keep cracking on folks, you are all wonderful and I am sure we will all be OK in the long run. At least we have STW though, eh? 🙂
Yep, pish dates, pish situation, but kinda, yeah, makes sense as we really don't want to **** this one up.
My hair's beginning to go a bit Terry Nutkins, when the hell am I going to get to a barbers? 🤦♂️
I can only repeat how glad I am that I live in Aviemore and not Edinburgh, though even the latter was at least blessed with easy access to the Pentlands.
Yep, pish dates
Weirdly I probably would’ve been happier with earlier or later, just not where they’re currently sitting! Because obvs my wee trip is the most important thing in the world..... and I want to avoid midge season!
*crosses scotroutes off xmas card list*
Its true tho that this last year has been the only time I wished that I lived in the country somewhere
Yep, being in rural Speyside has made this all just about bearable, I really feel for the folks in tower blocks and/or no access to green spaces.
At least there's light at the end of the tunnel, and whisky 😉
Spring Scotland trips cancelled for another year. Announcement makes more sense than the UK one though... wittering on about data not dates... and then laying out all the dates for the media to hang around their necks later in the year. Instead... plan a series of changes... measure the effects... check for new mutations and their characteristics... only then think about dates for more changes.
Judging by the call I had with work which had 300 people on it I'd say that patience has worn very thin esp. for areas where the rates were super low for quite a long time and are now low again. I think keeping a lid on this will be really tough and people are properly not in a good place.
Being in tier 3 in Shetland daily life's not too problematic, baring still having to work from home.
What is depressing me is my son being off school until after the Easter hols now as it's really not good him being home all the time. He's doing school work, but not going out at all.
I was also hoping against hope to get back to home in North Yorkshire for easter as my grown up daughter is due to give birth at the end of March and wanting to see my Mam who quite frail and doiting a fair bit.
I've self catering accommodation booked for the middle of May and I'm coming from Ingerland. So if you good chaps could stop spreading it around before then I'll be eternally grateful. I should have had at least one jab by then and the missus both. We don't have any ankle biting superspreaders either. The tier system does seem a bit archaic already though. If the vaccines are working as appears, the broad broom approach seems grossly unfair on those who have been playing by the rules.
The tier system does seem a bit archaic already though
Really? I don't think the folk of Shetland should have to live with the consequences of trolley-licking Glaswegians.
I'd say the chance of keeping folk who have behaved and ridden local to do so for another 7 - 8 weeks is pretty low. I'm not talking about a mass exodus to Fort William but I'd guess the tweed valley will start to get busy real soon with folks from the lothians . I've heard from local police that they have been briefed to not stop and question people where they are going and where they are from as Its pointless and they dont have the resources. Late April for us all to be in level 3 but possibly have tidier hair seems like no bonus at all.
Did I not hear a 'we may alter the advice/guidance/restrictions for the tiers'…?
I'm clutching at straws that someone in Scot Gov will work out that accessing nature and recreation for us all is a huge benefit - arguably more so than pubs, barbers and shops opening. (IANA barber). I'm hoping we see an end of march 'get outdoors on day trips' message clearly, rather than the current tier 3 'stay local'.
I agree that people's grace and patience is eroded, mine included, and many will try and breakout ahead of the dates proposed.
I live alone and WFH in glasgow, on average physically seeing one person outside per week other than shopping once or twice a week. While I have a small garden and a park within a couple of miles, there's not many hills within 5 miles of glasgow city council borders. The idea of being in level 3 (i.e. unable to travel out of local authority area) at best by the end of April is depressing (Sturgeon said data could bring it forward, but the risk of moving back seems equally large).
While it's pretty tame stuff as sob stories go, it's the seeming unending unnuanced restrictions combined with seemingly minimal risk to anyone of me, say, going solo walking/cycling/wild camping, or seeing my parents, that are getting to me. I'm not sure I'll be following the guidance as closely as I have been come April/May. That feeling will be amplified greatly if 'vaccine passports' become a thing and my demographic is last in line while those I've been isolating in order to protect have restrictions relaxed. Does that make me selfish irresponsible etc etc? Probably.