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there will be no in building school till after Easter.
I'm placing a bet there will be a partial return pre Easter for those with exams and fully back for nurseries, possibly even all kids.
Two climbers from Glasgow get stuck on Ben Nevis, get rescued and then charged with breaking Covid regs.
Later, two climbers get stuck on Creag Meagaidh. They’re “local” so don’t get charged.
That's simple - one is unambiguously breaking the law - they are more than 5 miles beyond their own local authority boundary without a reasonable excuse. The other is permitted in the legislation - Scottish regs are based on LA boundaries + 5 miles, not some vague "local" rule - the polite request from the government may be stronger but the cops can't fine people for ignoring polite requests.
Sure. So it’s OK for me to drive from Aviemore to Lochinver to go to the beach 🙂
Completely legal - it will be bloody freezing though.
I'm honestly hoping that there's no easing of restrictions till the numbers really justify it and not one moment before that. Also thinking that the WHO is right and the solution to this is global not local nor even national. Fair distribution of the vaccine worldwide requires us to share our supply with other countries and requires big pharma to share their intellectual property to increase production and distribution worldwide. So sadly I reckon I'm pishin into the wind.
Saw a bemusing situation yesterday. Car with 3x 30ish guys in it. Didnt look like brothers….could maybe be lovers I suppose…3 canoes on roof, obviously en route to some nice canoeing fun destination.
It is possible for three 30 yr old men to live in the same house without shagging or being related. Then they are one household. They could even live in two different addresses if they have bubbled together as an extended household. Having fun is not a crime.
Not local and certinly not essential.
Do you know where they started their journey? Canoeing on your own/with people in your household is exercise. There are SCA guidelines which have been agreed with SportScotland on behalf of the government (as there are for cycling and most other sports). Leaving home to go canoeing within your own LA area (or 5 miles beyond) is permitted under the regs.
Pulled into petrol station as probably needed fuel for thier long drive. Police car followed them in. Here we go I thought…..
Nope, cop definetly saw them but didnt even ask a question. Walked right by the car, into the shop obvs to buy his doughnuts and coffee…..
So the officer may have had many reasons not to bother them:
- he knew (or suspected) they were from the LA area
- he was on his way to do something more urgent
- he was balancing the public support for policing with those of challenging everyone who might be breaking the rules
- he was concerned that three 30 year olds might get arsey and he was on his own (if he was) and any back up was miles away
- he was going to speak to them on his way back out
- etc.
- (or he may be lazy, a covid denier, fed up getting argued with by the public, or has been told to stop issuing so many tickets for Covid because the courts are closed and when people want to argue them there's going to be a backlog!)
We saw what was clearly three families sat eating/snacking together today. Grr.
However, that has to be balanced by the hundreds of folk we’ve passed in the last month who were respectful, kept distance and said a cheery ‘hello’…
Yep it's really frustrating especially when you see the sort of folk who buy XC90s and cut grapes in half for their kids pissing on everyone's efforts to control a deadly pandemic.
There are some weird things in the Scottish rules though, such as "unregulated" organised childrens' activities may take place outdoors with no more than 7 adults and an unlimited number of under 5s. And two parents could meet with any number of children under 12 as I understand it. So there is room for confusion there.
In England the rules for meeting other families with kids are actually stricter with fewer exemptions.
Sure. So it’s OK for me to drive from Aviemore to Lochinver to go to the beach 🙂
Take the Campervan and see if you can make it onto that Facebook page
I'm going for senior pupils after half term (and primary) rest of school after Easter, with a drive for free school meals after half term.
It is possible for three 30 yr old men to live in the same house without shagging or being related.
Yup, exactly, and the amount folk that have lost their jobs out of this, I'd imagine there will be quite a few mates moving in with each other.
I thought we'd got past the judging and cliping, going by a few posts above, it would seem not.
So, my mum and dad were on the phone earlier, having a rant about why Scotland is being slow to vaccinate people in comparison with down south. England had a big day on Saturday (600k people vaccinated?) while they're not doing weekend vaccinations here? My sister is a nurse who vaccinates and their vaccination centre is only open weekdays?
Do they not have enough staff or something?
England had a big day on Saturday (600k people vaccinated?)
That number included the devolved nations, my wife and her colleagues have been vaccinating at weekends. Tell yer folks to get a different newspaper.
folk who buy XC90s
X5 owners are OK then and not the Covid devil worshippers?
@yourguitarhero I can understand the frustration but your parents are wrong. Each health board in Scotland has taken a slightly different approach many are vaccinating at the weekend even if it’s not being reported (we are expected to keep a detailed track of appointments and when people are being vaccinated). In Aberdeen the TECA was opened ahead of the reported day. And once again it’s worth noting that Scotland has chosen to focus on the care homes and front line medical staff.
The headline sales blurb for the XC90 is "safer for your world". So when watching a family pile out of one to meet their mates, mates mates and grandparents then go marching up a glen with narrow paths and gorges yeah it does trigger my ironymeter.
And once again it’s worth noting that Scotland has chosen to focus on the care homes and front line medical staff.
Sturgeon gets asked this pretty much every time at FMQ, and answers it the same way, but the farkwits still ask the next time.
yourguitarhero
Free Member
So, my mum and dad were on the phone earlier, having a rant about why Scotland is being slow to vaccinate people in comparison with down south. England had a big day on Saturday (600k people vaccinated?) while they’re not doing weekend vaccinations here? My sister is a nurse who vaccinates and their vaccination centre is only open weekdays?
Do they not have enough staff or something?
scotland running about 3%(ie 10% compare to 13% in england) behind. Loads of places opening up this week far as I've heard mentioned, so numbers should jump I think.
It's no a race though and things are going in the correct trajectory. We're still miles ahead of just about everyone else on the planet. So people need to get a bit of a grip on their gripe-ing about this (not aimed at you or your mum or dad btw). The programme is well under way and going well.
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The headline sales blurb for the XC90 is “safer for your world”
Their design remit was that no one would be killed in or by an XC90, pretty sure that a global pandemic didn't feature in their risk evaluation though.
@sparksmcguff - and i have a meeting later this week that might give me some insight... 🤞
It’s no a race though and things are going in the correct trajectory. We’re still miles ahead of just about everyone else on the planet. So people need to get a bit of a grip on their gripe-ing about this (not aimed at you or your mum or dad btw). The programme is well under way and going well.
Quite right - its political and media point scoring to focus on the stats like this. Would we rather double the number of people vaccinated but in the process infect 2% of them because we don't have safe processes/places to do that many? Or would we rather we vaccinate everyone this month, but pull the nursing staff out of cancer and chronic disease treatment clinics and have people die of other things instead? If you were having a genuine health issue that needed to talk to a GP - would you rather wait 10 days so that Mrs Miggins can get her vaccine a week earlier?
Once we start obsessing with the metrics we become driven by them - and manipulating the rules to help the stats - so e.g. you'll start vaccinating anyone who is in the doctors for something else, at the expense of those most likely to die from covid.
while they’re not doing weekend vaccinations here?
as others have said - we are. But we aren't paying people to push the paperwork around at weekends so its not being reported - I've no idea why they agreed to report daily, that seems excessive: Weekly is plenty for vaccinations; it just leads to people who don't understand numbers over analysing them - its the same with reporting the positive cases by local council ward (or whatever the granular boundaries are).
Disagree with that last bit poly the local council ward info allows me to make better informed decisions about what to do in my local area Although my council ward Fort William and South Lochaber is vast.
Once we start obsessing with the metrics we become driven by them – and manipulating the rules to help the stats – so e.g. you’ll start vaccinating anyone who is in the doctors for something else, at the expense of those most likely to die from covid.
Or, to look at that another way, because the number of deaths is a huge metric for obvious reasons, you then become driven by that, and as you say vaccinate someone who's likely to die, say an overweight 86 year old with multiple comorbidities.
But that overweight 86 year old doesn't leave the house, and the 30 year old who lives in the flat downstairs who's fit and has a physical job develops long covid, resulting in potentially chronic lung damage and who knows what else, with god knows how long a recovery (if at all) period.
There's lots of ways to look at this, and no right way to go about it in my opinion. It's one of the reasons I tend to cut the powers that be a bit of slack, even the science is guesswork at times.
Neither my 75 year old dad or 74 year old mum have had their jab yet. However my mates girlfriend, who works in social care but from home, and hasn't had to visit anyone in the community since the outbreak began, got hers last week
Pissed me right off hearing that if I'm honest
Aye, an ex-pal of my wife's contacted her last week to say she'd had it, she's similar, social care for the LA, wfh since last March. She's a fat, lazy entitled cow. It did grate a bit, but I'm over it now, these things will happen.
However my mates girlfriend, who works in social care but from home, and hasn’t had to visit anyone in the community since the outbreak began, got hers last week
I heard a similar one, speech and language therapist, WFH since March, no plans for return but because of how her job is classified she's had the jab. Conversely, I think pupil support assistants who work face to face with young peole and often provide intimate care won't be getting the vaccine until their 'general population' slot.
As Nobeer says stuff like that is bound to happen but in an ideal world...
...and eldest_oab, plus other forum members, who work in the CV19 testing sites are not looking like they will get it early either..
As above, I have some patience with this as it's neither exact science or has precedence on such a scale.
That must be a local trust situation Matt, Mrs is doing testing and vaccination, all of both her teams were vaccinated before xmas.
I'd be chasing that up.
One of the advantages of devolution is that Scotland can, and does, choose to do somethings its own way. When its works and and do it better that the other parts of the UK, we are very loudly told of how good the Scottish approach is. When other parts of the UK do it better we are told that Scotland's plan is still the right one.
I agree totally that this is not a competition, but perhaps Scotland can use some of the best practice used in England, to accelerate the rates. It is not because of a shortage of vaccines, since a Scottish minister has confirmed that that Scotland has 0.5 million does available at storage facilities.
Plus the fact that if Scotland accelerated to the national average, then the UK's rate would go up. Win-win.
To be able to get out of lockdown all parts the UK have to get the infection rate down. Regardless of where people live. The border cannot be kept closed because one part is falling behind with getting it under control
To be able to get out of lockdown all parts the UK have to get the infection rate down. Regardless of where people live. The border cannot be kept closed because one part is falling behind with getting it under control
To be able to get out of lockdown, the only way to stay out of lockdown, is precisely that, to close the borders. Start allowing folk to go abroad again EVEN IF we were down at NZ levels, we'll be ****ed quick smart.
Boo I was just gearing up to have lots of fun with that other thread! 😆
Aye, it was heading to the endzone from early doors!
LOL I just popped back to see how that thread was going.
I'm not sure sure Home Nations referred to in that context.
I agree totally that this is not a competition, but perhaps Scotland can use some of the best practice used in England, to accelerate the rates.
But your assumption there (which may be valid, but certainly may also be invalid) is that vaccinating a higher percentage of the whole population is a sign that they are doing a better job, and therefore have best practice. If the JCVI said the priority should be people in care homes, and you’ve focussed not on care homes but on getting the easy headlines you’ve got bad practice. I’m not close enough to know who is “ahead”. I am close enough to know that as forty something with no underlying health conditions it’s going to be a good few months before I would be vaccinated either side of the border and until they get to my group you probably don’t have much resembling normality.
Interesting question here, my wee sister in Stirling (lives alone) has been in an extended household with my mum in Oban (also lives alone).
It's my wee sister's birthday next weekend and she is planning to travel up and see my mum (the birthday thing is irrelevant to be honest, as far as I'm concerned it's good that they see one-another every now and then).
As far as I can tell, travel as part of an extended household is still classed as 'essential'?
How does she prove it though? My mum keeps panicking about stories of people being fined without proof of valid reason for travel...
No need to prove it, every chance she won't get stopped, if she does she just needs to explain and give your mums phone number to check.
@13thfloormonk, tell them not to worry about it, I've been driving all over with work and never once been stopped. A coleague has been stopped a few times, but she's 19 and drives a modded beemer....
Cool, thanks guys.
I guess a common factor in those people getting fined is that by their actions (being from Glasgow + getting stuck on Ben Nevis...) they've 'proven' they've travelled for non-essential reasons.
A case of 'presumed essential unless can be proven otherwise' perhaps...
The Nevis weegies are a pretty extreme example tbh.
Love this one. We were sledging with the kids on a local golf course when a guy asked if we'd leave. Apparently we were breaching their track and trace and damaging the grass that was under a foot of snow. We left straight away without argument and I think the other couple of families did too, but obviously someone disagreed with them as this appeared on FB
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@Swavis
That's bollocks.
Access to golf courses for sledging is an accepted part of Scottish Access Law. "These activities rarely cause any problems if done responsibly – by keeping off greens, tees and bunkers – and when there is sufficient snow cover. Golf course managers are encouraged to accept such access when it is carried out responsibly".
Aye, that's pish. I regularly run through 2 of the oldest, most trad courses in the country, Royal Troon and Old Prestwick, there's never an issue.
So the more infectious kids back but a lockdown still on. Remind me how well that worked August to Christmas....Oh no wait; that was the pubs and people travelling across the border. Either lockdown or don't.
As I suspected we have a phased return and testing now being planned.
So the more infectious kids back but a lockdown still on
The younger ones? The science still says the opposite - that post-puberty the infection rate and transmission rate rises.
I note a plea of not going on foreign holidays this year at all.
I am secondary Matt, seniors are back. And why not TELL folk they can't go abroad?
5-8% of seniors afaik?
Oh I know it's pish, I just couldn't be bothered arguing with him. I suppose I should report it as they'll think they're in the right and continue to be arsey about it, I just don't know if I can be bothered. I suppose they can stop you parking there which is fair enough. Meh
I am secondary Matt, seniors are back. And why not TELL folk they can’t go abroad?
I agree with the TELL re holidays.
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting it was the EY lot who were the infections little mites 😉
The twice weekly community testing (I think I heard, the phone rang mid listening...) for seniors is a good thing IMO.
So really we can be moving around again sometime in March.
I just couldn’t be bothered arguing with him.
We had a similar thing with the local golf course at Xmas. I got a torrent of abuse from members on Facebook for pointing out the access code - and then a mass of older residents stepped in and pointed out they'd sledged on the course as kids and to get over it.
I agree with the TELL re holidays.
Aye, agreed, just say no foreign travel til we say so. This means you'll get a hell of a lot more freedoms back, but Benidorm is off the agenda.
We had a similar thing with the local golf course at Xmas. I got a torrent of abuse from members on Facebook for pointing out the access code
I had the same with a local estate landowner who's gated off a fishery, cos the fisherman were being disturbed by poeople walking through his estate. Bugger off, their throwing massive fluoro lures in to howk out fat water pigs that are greedier than the estate.
matt_outandabout
Sausages and yellow snow are the answer.
👍👿
5-8% of the school roll at any one time. Given that the Senior Phase accounts for around 50% of the roll, this could be around half a column (5 columns typically in S5/6) in at a time, focussing on practical work and generating some "exam conditions" evidence for National Qualification Awards this year.
@swavis I drove past the guys putting the barriers up at Dufftown Golf Club yesterday morning - wondered what the sour faces were for. Plenty of parking in the Glenrinnes village hall car park and drag your sledge up Ben Rinnes
Plenty of parking in the Glenrinnes village hall car park and drag your sledge up Ben Rinnes
I may just do that 😆 No wonder they're struggling for members if they're all that miserable.
I've been parking at the Ben Rinnes distillery to start my splitboard adventures and there's never any problem.
Right now the wife and I are just rejoicing that nurseries are going back, we both have to work and much as we love him, our wee boy is just 12 hours of hard work right now, we like to think it's because he's exceptionally bright and intelligent, others might just say he's a hyperactive destructive wee monster, but my god we need to professionals to step back in pronto!
On a moral/ethical note, we tried to rationalise it to ourselves that at least the nursery kids are reasonably easy to keep within their bubbles, 15 kids per bubble I think and it's fairly easy to stop them mixing outside of that. And since there's probably already 14 'key workers' putting their kids into our wee boys class on a daily basis anyway I don't see why he shouldn't go back.
I would also agree regarding telling folk no foreign travel this year, but how does the Scottish government do that . Can it be done as a health policy? Like they were considering with the Scotland -England border last summer?
Can't be done under border control as that's reserved to UK who incidentally were advised to close the border last week by SAGE but rejected that advice.
Access to golf courses for sledging is an accepted part of Scottish Access Law
"The main places where access rights do not apply are:
golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don’t interfere with any games of golf);
5-8% of the school roll at any one time. Given that the Senior Phase accounts for around 50% of the roll, this could be around half a column (5 columns typically in S5/6)
most subjects are not doing practicals though. None in science or geography.
Is that 5-8% including the hub kids as well though? If it does then we are already at capacity. Considering it was the centerpiece of yesterday's briefing we could have done with a bit more clarity, its a bit crap when the Government is a regular employer of the steal edit. Could be worse though; I could be the poor git timetabling to fit in the seniors who are allowed back, there is some serious witchcraft about to take place there! 😄
“The main places where access rights do not apply are:
golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don’t interfere with any games of golf);
Pretty sure my one is playing golf in 4" of snow, christ most of them don't bother if the winter greens are on.
no one, not my one!
So, does Chris Boardman live on Speyside now? 😉
Scotroutes - I'll bite. ??
Maybe he has a lookey-likey 😅
So primary 1-3's back from Monday 22nd, I bet there'll be a few glad of that.
Ah, might be a good place to ask. Mrs Routes is keen on getting some flooring done - most of the ground floor. That'll mean getting someone in to fit it too. Is that sort of service allowed under current guidelines? I'm assuming we will take some control measures, like ventilating prior to and after fitter is in the house. It might be complicated by the need to move furniture around during the fitting, though I guess we could split it over two days.
@Scotroutes I don't think that is allowed.
The Coronavirus regulations require that work carried out in someone else’s home for the maintenance, upkeep or functioning of the home must only be carried out where it is essential or where that house is unoccupied. People must not go into other people’s houses for that type of work where it is not essential. This applies to anyone carrying out work, voluntary or charitable services. Businesses who employ people to carry out this work should consider if it is essential before asking their employees to enter someone else’s home.
From https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/
We are planning a kitchen refurb and everything is on hold.
IIRC you can only get trades in if essential or if the house is empty
What do people think my chance of the long planned long trek in Scotland in May being allowed? We would be walking and mainly wild camping.
I am writing off the long planned retirement / Birthday party in april - I cannot see that being allowed
swavis
Full Member
So primary 1-3’s back from Monday 22nd, I bet there’ll be a few glad of that.
Has there been any discussion regarding vaccinating the teachers for those returning classes?
As far as I'm aware, teachers are not priority but are still expected to be in a class of ~30 where social distancing would be largely impossible.
I'm not a teacher, but if I was I wouldn't be happy returning to such a workplace unless I was fully vaccinated.
What do people think my chance of the long planned long trek in Scotland in May being allowed? We would be walking and mainly wild camping.
That would require Tier 2 I think wouldn't it? What does Sturgeon's announcement today effectively take us down to, Tier 4? or are we still Tier 5 albeit with some kids back in school/nursery?
I'm assuming 3 weeks per tier, so Tier 4 mid March, Tier 3 early April, Tier 2 end April? (just in time for my birthday? 😀 ).
That's some very shonky assumption of course and depends on them not running scared of new mutant variants etc. etc.
I'm moving to Perthshire very soon so I think I can thole another month or two of restrictions whilst exploring my new environs...
Has there been any discussion regarding vaccinating the teachers for those returning classes?
My wife is a teacher and says that although raised with govt by unions, no commitment yet. Primary kids don't distance, the school layout doesn't suit it, kids don't wear masks, ventilation is negligible and handwashing not possible without long travel through school to toilets where there's no hot water anyway.
I don’t think that is allowed.
Yeah, I thought that was the case, though it's not stopped some which is why I thought I'd better ask.
What do people think my chance of the long planned long trek in Scotland in May being allowed? We would be walking and mainly wild camping.
Fingers crossed. We've booked sites and ferries for Uist in mid-June and even that seems a bit optimistic.
I am a teacher, and I have been vaccinated with the first dose of the O-AZ vaccine as I am on the Shielding List. I got it on 11 Feb, so I think that dose should reach full effect around 4 March. We are considering NOT sending out P3 (7yo) back to school on 22 February as my vaccine won't have kicked in as much as possible. My wife (also a teacher) had Asymptomatic Covid in December (-ve for antibodies at end of November, +ve for antibodies at end of December, since confirmed with another antibody +ve test). She seemingly did not pass it on in the house as I am still -ve for Antibodies (Dec & Jan tests), and no-one had any symptoms. The kids haven't had antibody tests though.
The real danger here is not him catching Covid from the teacher, but him catching it from a classmate and bringing it home. On R5 on Friday night I was listening to discussion that said Primary school pupils are 2x more likely to bring Covid into a household and 2x more likely to pass it on to a family member than an adult.
The reality is the children spend much more time in close contact with each other than with the teacher. The teacher will be trying to distance from the kids as much as possible. The kids will be playing tig.
We will probably keep a close eye on the local prevalence. If it is zero on 22 Feb, he might go back, but any whiff of a local outbreak before 4 March and we'll keep him at home until then. It seems odd, but we have been so careful up until now, that we wouldn't want to let our guard down so close to the line. Having said that, I have no idea of when I am getting my 2nd dose.
Has there been any discussion regarding vaccinating the teachers for those returning classes?
We are still in the second group and there would be no point in moving all of us up. I could understand primary teachers getting it before secondary.
Nice we are getting £400 though
tjagain
Full MemberWhat do people think my chance of the long planned long trek in Scotland in May being allowed?
No idea but I’m supposed to be riding the Badger Divide in May so really hoping it works out. I see that the overall plan is coming out next week, so will probably make a decision on the trip then
Fort William World cup May 22nd and my 50th and a wee trip to a villa in Frigliana in the last 2 weeks in july.? 🙁 Neither is looking likely is it.
If I can't get the trek in this summer I am going to have the mother of all tantrums!* I have been planning and looking forward to it for a couple of years and has been the main thing keeping me going at times
* of course in reality I wont!
They have ignored the tier thresholds previously outlined as going by the numbers we should be edging level 2 now