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and now max of 2 from 2 households for outdoor exercise - aye right, that'll be followed by the large groups of walkers and riders 🙁
Schools will remain shut until at least 1 February
Weren't we already basically staying at home?
What else can you go out for other than work, getting food shopping or going for a walk or bike ride etc? Not exactly a lot of folk having picnics in the park just now!
BoardinBob
Full MemberIs it travelling five miles by road, or a 5 miles expanded border around the LA boundary.
Never been confirmed either way. To me, it's badly worded but I think it's definitely "as the crow flies". Reason being, that makes sense with the wording as it is, whereas for "as travelled along a road" really would have needed that specifically stated. It's also pretty impractical to enforce/harder to illustrate.
"starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area)"
Not sure if the 5 mile rule survives the new changes though?
Amazed we, Shetland, have not gone to 4+ too, only really difference here is schools until 1st Feb. Plenty on SM here wanting us in 4+
Not exactly a lot of folk having picnics in the park just now!
Queens Park in Glasgow was absolutely heaving over the weekend. More people in it than at the peak of summer, mainly driven by people skating on the frozen pond. The police had to come down to control the crowds.
Are the full details published yet?
Anyone know what the tightened definition of "essential services" is? Bike shops still permitted to open?
Weren’t we already basically staying at home?
nope - nothing to stop you going about in your LA. Now you've only to leave your house for specific reasons.
People on my IG stream were out driving to the golfie and up mountains too from Glasgow without a care in the world.
Are bubbles for people living alone still a thing?
Are the full details published yet?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/
Bike shops still permitted to open?
yes
murdooverthehill
Free Member
Are the full details published yet?https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/Posted 8 minutes ago
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This is a hugely broad get out clause for cyclists (and others)
for those involved in professional sports, for training, coaching or competing in an event.
No criteria around what level of "involved in professional sports"
An entry for this year's EWS could be a reasonable excuse?
I can only see a list of essential services last updated on Dec 23rd via that link - have you seen a more recent one?
No criteria around what level of “involved in professional sports”
An entry for this year’s EWS could be a reasonable excuse?
I assumed "professional" meant "paid to perform".
Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way.
I guess that means "don't pass suitable places on the way to somewhere else".
I assumed “professional” meant “paid to perform”.
That's how I read it, seems pretty easy to distinguish between your livelihood and a hobby.
I'm really not seeing anything new here to be honest (barring the 2 person rule), what have I missed?
Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way.
It makes me an idiot but I missed that in the opening paragraph and went directly to the exercise and travel sections where it is not so obvious. I think it should be repeated in the exercise section.
I guess that means “don’t pass suitable places on the way to somewhere else”.
I think I agree with you. What it doesn't say is 'it's ok to pass some suitable places so you can move on to somewhere that the gnar is just the level you like and the views are a bit better' - though I'm sure plenty will act as if that's what it says.
I’m really not seeing anything new here to be honest, what have I missed?
I think the big change (apart from schools and the meetings of only 2 from 2 households rather than the 6 from 2 or the 8 from 3 before that) is the essential travel within your local authority is minimal by law rather than guidance. So me schlepping up to Thurso for a walk might have previously got a suck of teeth, it might now get a fine.
I think the big change (apart from schools) is the essential travel within your local authority is minimal by law rather than guidance. So me schlepping up to Thurso for a walk might have previously got a suck of teeth, it might now get a fine.
Yeah, we abandoned New Year plans to go to Lochinver, even though that was technically allowed, on the basis that the advice was to minimise travel. TBH, it just didn't feel like the right thing to be doing anyway.
I’m really not seeing anything new here to be honest (barring the 2 person rule), what have I missed?
Outdoor sports/leisure facilities to be closed (there was clay pigeon shooting going on here yesterday). I assume that must include ski centres, golf, etc too
Definitely get the feeling now they are simply firefighting. Surely they foreseen this spike/acceleration with the last relaxation? The government can make all the rules/give out the advice they want, they then need to then do a reality check in the real world. I think they would observe a large portion of society are ambivalent to the risks and for these people it is business as normal.(A82 outside the Kings House at the weekend for example) No coherent long term plan or strategy is ever talked about, the vaccine is being rolled out and even that seems without strategy as the timescales between vaccination is now extended to 12 weeks, I understand the rationale, but also think this should have been foreseen from the start, it wasn't so you wonder what actual planning is occurring? I would have thought NHS/carers/teachers would be getting it as they are quite exposed due to nature of job, but it appears nursing homes etc is the focus, couldn't those people be kept safe through other measures initially and focus on getting 'essential' workers safe first. It is a hard situation to manage but I now feel the government have lost their way by not having a long term strategy that is visabily being delivered, a few bumps along the way is to be expected. The game has changed now, with a vaccination available every death is preventable, people dying currently could have been saved, the government really have to get this right now or have more needless deaths. Today's announcements weren't near strong enough to take us in that direction. I work with some young people and they really couldn't care less about the effect of their actions. I can't imagine their parents are proud.
Ski centres closed, golf still an allowed exemption
The same people that didn't give a toss in March will carry on not giving a toss.
It's death by ignorance.
Ski centres closed, golf still an allowed exemption
Not that I play golf but I can see the difference. For a lot golf is just a glorified walk. It's under the same family group or 2 from 2 rules as any other walk. And due the rather decadent use of land social distancing is probably easier on a golf course than anywhere else. I'm assuming you should only play at the course closest to you and that should be local......
Skiing - attracts those from out of area. crowds around lifts, risks to essential services attending to the inevitable broken limbs. I think it's fair it's different.
I agree. Sad to witness the lack of moral compass with people. Even sadder is the sheer number of these people. Selfishness is on a whole new level now. Staying in your house and going out only for essential reasons is pretty clear advice.
What do you do with people who flaunt it? Remove their furlough pay if that is what they are on, if they believe Covid is conspiracy get them up to the Covid ward to remove the dead bodies, no PPE required as it is not real eh? Whole situation is getting worse I feel.
Yup so the addition is local as possible, cheers.
@convert, yup, 2 ball limits, most towns have golf courses, doesn't make much sense to close them.
Even sadder is the sheer number of these people. Selfishness is on a whole new level now. Staying in your house and going out only for essential reasons is pretty clear advice.
What do you do with people who flaunt it?
TBH I don't know what you can do, there isn't a set type of person in these groups.
It's a big mix of rule benders, rule breakers, non-believers and a whole heap of self righteous ‘I know what’s best’ bods .
The only sense I see in closing golf courses is that it would give lots of other folk an optional place to walk so that they weren't crowding into honeypot areas and/or driving further than they need to. Golf itself seems to be pretty safe.
You can still walk around most courses with plenty of room to spare, or certainly on the links courses down here at least.
As an activity I don't see a justification for closing courses just so folk can run their dogs around them without exercising common sense. Plus you would get the inevitable dickheads tearing up the greens and such.
I see everyone is still blaming each other on here, when it's just a complete and utter failure of government(s).
Governments to blame for sure for a lack of a cohesive approach, but those that have been flouting the guidance are very much part of the problem too - no?
Very visible here sadly.
Well what do you propose? The only logical step is to go full martial law but nobody is going to be the one that blinks first.
@sillyoldman - same where i am. Few seem to care now...one of my neighbours has flouted all th eguidelines all the way through, people coming and going. One cafe near us which is on a green was like glastonbury over Christmas, no social distancing, people paying in cash, staff handling it and not washing their hands (apparently, as one of neighbours tells me!). Groups of people all over.
I dont know how to make people do as they're asked? It's not difficult is it, but people seem t think it's the government being awkward, yet in my village half a dozen or so have died from it, but this doesnt seem to compute!
It'll be tier 76 in 2028!
I am genuinely confused now. Does this mean that people can travel within their local authority area or not.
You can travel for local outdoor sport or exercise such as meeting another person, walking, cycling, golf or running that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area), as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households.
The last I was aware 'local area' was being defined as local authority.
Likewise, 'minimise travel' suggests that it is ok to travel but don't overdo it. For example, would it be reasonable to travel further afield, albeit still within my local authority, once a week or fortnight?
To be clear, I'm not looking for loopholes and intend to abide by the regulations despite my personal opinion of them. However, as a single self employed person living alone and working from home, if it is acceptable to travel to ride on my own then I will.
Travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a socially distanced way.
That's from the ScotGov website today.
would it be reasonable to travel further afield, albeit still within my local authority, once a week or fortnight?
So, that would be a no. Unless that was the only place you could find that met the criteria and you weren't passing others on the way.
Well what do you propose? The only logical step is to go full martial law but nobody is going to be the one that blinks first.
Why were the likes of Australians and New Zealanders able to accept the lockdown restrictions they had, yet the British (and others) cant? Can you imagine the toy throwing here if anyone arriving by a plane was properly processed at the airport and taken directly to a hotel room where they had to stay there for 2 weeks?
How come those countries can accept that but we cant? Why were any incidents of rule breaking actually properly dealt with there with proper fines and active monitoring?
Why were the likes of Australians and New Zealanders able to accept the lockdown restrictions they had, yet the British (and others) cant? Can you imagine the toy throwing here if anyone arriving by a plane was properly processed at the airport and taken directly to a hotel room where they had to stay there for 2 weeks?
How come those countries can accept that but we cant? Why were any incidents of rule breaking actually properly dealt with there with proper fines and active monitoring?
That's a question I'd love to see an answer to. I don't know, maybe they just have higher trust in their governments. Maybe their governments took affirmative action when it was needed rather than dicking about for a year with little to show for it. Maybe the deniers were dealt with properly and misinformation was thoroughly discredited. Maybe they're generally not a bunch of entitled pricks. All speculation I'm afraid and many possible answers.
squirrelking
Free Member
Well what do you propose? The only logical step is to go full martial law but nobody is going to be the one that blinks first.
The approach was proper uk wide lockdowns in september. But nut, ye got the shite tier system, easing, lets have christmas, lets no have christmas etc etc.
Utter shambles.
Aye some people flout the rules, more so since their messaging is so shit, but ultimately we are where we are due to governmental incompetence.
Their considered approach has cost more harm than good when the correct approach was to nip it in the bud as soon as things started rising in september. Which is political incompetence.
Things would have been controlled a lot better if they just acted properly when they should have.
And it's no like that's an opinion with the benefit of hindsight. It was obvious in september.
Sooo... what did Margaret Ferrier do which meritted being arrested that Dominic Cummings didn't?
Westminster needing to try and make the SNP's Covid response look bad?
Sooo… what did Margaret Ferrier do which meritted being arrested that Dominic Cummings didn’t?
Westminster needing to try and make the SNP’s Covid response look bad?
I would say the exact opposite.
Met police did not charge her, Police Scotland did. I'd say this is the SNP showing that even one of their own is not above the law marking them out from the Tory scum in Westminster who should have demanded Cummings fell on his sword. She was told to do the same but didn't so she's going to get a rinsing. Fair play.
What she did was much worse than what cummings did.
convert
Full Member
I’d say this is the SNP showing that even one of their own is not above the law
The snp don't run the polis.
The snp don’t run the polis.
🙂
I can't tell if this is irony or not!
What she did was much worse than what cummings did.
And she doesn't even wear glasses.
deleted - muddled up my lawbreakers
What she did was much worse than what cummings did.
Correct ,she was beyond stupid and the publicity just gave even more people an excuse not to give a toss.
This should not let Cummings off the hook,but where is he now the wee gobshite?
See also: Prince Charles.
Never mind September there was plenty that could have been done in the beginning. We're an island nation FFS yet we allowed it to take a hold and then come back worse than ever.
At this stage martial law really is the only way this is going away IMO. People have proven they can't be trusted so it's time to bring out the stick. Sick of seeing folk greeting about their civil liberties, **** them, if they played by the rules in the first place we wouldn't be here today.
Can't disagree with any of that SK.
See also: Prince Charles.
Oh aye, super spreaders..by Royal Appointment
I'd agree SK.
Why we didn't close down borders, I will never know.
Why we didn’t close down borders, I will never know.
I know.
It's got something to do with political unions.
BoardinBob
Full MemberWhy were the likes of Australians and New Zealanders able to accept the lockdown restrictions they had, yet the British (and others) cant?
I think they'd have probably acted equally badly if they'd had a government constantly undermining the lockdowns. Same with vaccines, amid a climate of suspicion and concern we're told "trust us, this is the right thing to do" and then they change everything and say "yeah but trust us, this new thing is the right thing to do". You'd actually think that that have a Department Of Covid Troublemaking.
squirrelking
At this stage martial law
😆 right ye are adolf.
Oops my bad, I had maybe misunderstood who was doing the arresting and charging, plus was too lazy to compare what they had both done, thought both had travelled knowing or suspecting they had Covid.
thought both had travelled knowing or suspecting they had Covid.
that is correct. Cummings also went to the local hospital to infect them as well. He should also be charged.
The scottish government was also hamstrung by a lack of powers - no borrowing power means that they can only furlough people with westminsters say so. I am sure Sturgeon wanted to do miore sept / oct but couldn't for practical reasons
tjagain
Full Member
The scottish government was also hamstrung by a lack of powers – no borrowing power means that they can only furlough people with westminsters say so. I am sure Sturgeon wanted to do miore sept / oct but couldn’t for practical reasons
true, but furlough has been available since oct 1, and since we've had a pointless tier system and even within that reducing to tier 3 at completely the wrong time, and lets celebrate christmas nonsense..
She's doing better, but being a bit better isn't really good enough.
Now we know why Nicola was in such a hurry.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1346170270982283273
Scotland is closed. **** OFF!
She’s doing better, but being a bit better isn’t really good enough.
LOL - I said this in a PM with TJ
Her personal ratings are high but I don't think that "being only slightly more competent than Boris" is a laudable achievement.
seosamh77
#
40 % of the infection rate is a lot better?
Well done Martin 🙂
I think we should take back his golf course in Aberdeenshire or plough it up,it's running at a loss anyway.
seosamh77
#
40 % of the infection rate is a lot better?
Not when prevalence should be next to nothing. You're comparing the wrong things. I'll leave you to work out that percentage.
Burundi has a population of 11.53 million and has only had 2 covid deaths.
Thailand, at 69 million people has had 65 deaths.
We're actually worse than the yanks, with all their "handicaps"
Here you go TJ. Note that Scottish deaths haven't been updated this year.
Based on the Cases (which have been updated) I think you can see where it's going
We’re actually worse than the yanks, with all their “handicaps”
Yup - our UK wide deaths per million population is about 20% worse than the yanks - which is not a happy stat. Not sure if it's a like for like stat mind (we have a slightly older population and I don't know if there is a different definition of a covid death).
I agree its not great. Two issues really led to the situation we are in. Not locking down early enough or hard enough allowed covid to become endemic and allowing it into care homes caused a lot of deaths. The first was not really in Sturgeons control as without borrowing powers she was hamstrung and the second was poor advice given ( although it should have been obvious it was poor advice)
the key thing for me about Sturgeon thru all this is her attitude. Clear explanations as to what and why - and an acknowledgement that mistakes have been made and that she is accountable for them. thats a huge differnce with Johnson and co
I would rate her performance as a lot better than Johnson but a worse than Ardern
Yup – our UK wide deaths per million population is about 20% worse than the yanks – which is not a happy stat. Not sure if it’s a like for like stat mind.
They are a month behind us. dunno how things compare if you take our figures from a month earlier than theirs.
Scotland now has 40% of the infections of England. dunno if that is reflected in overall deaths
Lots of crossed posts. Scotroutes graphs read to me that Scotland is doing rather better than other similar countries
Scotland now has 40% of the infections of England. dunno if that is reflected in overall deaths
It would appear that you chances of surviving Covid in Scotland are worse than in England. That could be due to poorer care, the demographics of who has been infected or the poorer overall health of folk in Scotland. Of course, it could also be because the rules regarding the inclusion of Covid-19 on Death Certificates in Scotland are more far-reaching than those in England. (Hint)
Golf courses in England to close.
what did Margaret Ferrier do which meritted being arrested that Dominic Cummings didn’t
went on public transport knowing she was positive.
😆 right ye are adolf.
Away tae...
What do you propose then? Go on, how are you going to get all the ****wits to play nice?
I'm not proposing anything other than giving police the power and manning to apply meaningful enforcement. I don't remember anyone calling the Spanish or French fascists after they did it. As I said, people have proven time and time again they can't be trusted to do it right so what other option is there?
Martial law may be going a bit far. Making it law rather than guidance and asking the police to jump hard on folk not go softly softly should be enough.
To be fair English lockdown is tougher than Scottish.....
England:-
Meeting others
You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
We can meet one other and meet in back gardens
And....Specifying only once a day for exercise
And....If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay local in the village, town, or part of the city where you live. You may leave your local area for a legally permitted reason, such as for work.
.....Which is linguistically tighter than the Scottish version
Making it law rather than guidance and asking the police to jump hard on folk not go softly softly should be enough
It is law as has been since last year if you were in tier 4.
Of course, it could also be because the rules regarding the inclusion of Covid-19 on Death Certificates in Scotland are more far-reaching than those in England
Very far reaching I thought, when they first came out anyway.
Asking for martial law? That's mental - totally reactionary.
UK policing is based on a consent model, that would be a massive and irreversible change to society - with some massive side effects which would probably be worse for health outcomes (at a minimum) than COVID.
You know, the wacky thing about this is - out of all the folk I know, family friends, colleagues, acquaintances etc - only two people have had it. So, while, in a broader picture I intellectually understand all the restrictions, at a gut level is seems really remote to me. Fair enough I'm younger than most of you guys, but 39 is a long way from 19.
Also, I do think folk are getting themselves in a bit of a froth about the perceived malfeasance/failures of others that are probably lacking in context and also not that well based in the transmission of the virus particles. Generally, it seems that it doesn't transmit very well outside, so while we have a reaction to seeing crowds of folk queuing at a ski slope, probably noone caught it there. A crowded church or pub, aye. We've had an anti "other folk" narrative drummed into us that the sight of groups of folk just gets our backs up - possibly unwarrantedly.