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Four of my daughter's school friends had a sleepover last night, 14 year olds, all of their parents I used to consider fairly intelligent folks, certainly not idiots. Mind changed now.
One of them has lost 2 grandparents to covid.
Whit chance ye got, utter ****wittery.
Yep, if folk are doing stuff like that it doesn’t matter how good test and trace is!
Absolutely.
Ironically, the mother of the one who lost both grandparents it turns out is an antivaxxer. Imagine that.
Met an unhappy U19 female champion downhiller at pumptrack Friday. She was heading out with her face tripping her. She'd just been told her year is to isolate.
the mother of the one who lost both grandparents
See, I know that's not true because nobody actually knows anyone that actually died of covid. I read it on Facebook.
Some people aren't going to be convinced until people are dropping like ******* flies.
perhaps the thread name should be called 'tightening of Scottish lockdown'. I feel like there hasn't been a huge amount of clarity on travelling for exercise - BBC seemed to say only leave council for essential purposes but exercise was listed as essential but now can't seem to see that anywhere.
perhaps the thread name should be called ‘tightening of Scottish lockdown’. I feel like there hasn’t been a huge amount of clarity on travelling for exercise – BBC seemed to say only leave council for essential purposes but exercise was listed as essential but now can’t seem to see that anywhere.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53166816
People living under level three rules should not travel outside their own local authority area for anything other than "essential" reasons.
This can include work, education, outdoor exercise, healthcare or caring responsibilities, and essential shopping.
As folks know, I'm a recent returnee to Scotland - had to do a wee check on what size Stirling local authority was in terms of where I can still ride/paddle/walk the dog etc - it looks flipping massive, is that correct?
So for us Stirling residents, even if we were confined to local authority, we're really very lucky. If they do tighten that travel clause its going to be a right pisser for a lot of folks in other LAs
This can include work, education, outdoor exercise, healthcare or caring responsibilities, and essential shopping.
Going by that i can guilt free travel to bike - happy days
Yeah that's right @big_scot_nanny. People usually think that Stirling is just the town itself but its a big area. I feel like most people think crianlarich is the highlands but it's really not
Travel locally (within around 5 miles of your local authority area) to reach a place to take exercise outdoors
https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/
Balls. It did seem too good to be true.
Travel locally (within around 5 miles of your local authority area) to reach a place to take exercise outdoors
ah ffs 🙁
Sorry everyone, pretty sure this is my fault. Earlier in the year i arrange 3 months (parental) leave and it coincided almost exactly with lockdown 1. Now I've dared to take a week of this month......
Pulls out ruler to see if Comrie Croft is within guidelines?
Bollocks to that, as said elewhere, while the bloody bookies are still open, I'll be travelling half an hour out to the Galloways to exercise, never anyone there.
Pulls out ruler to see if Comrie Croft is within guidelines?
😆 was doing the same thing!
That's the FM again warning that we might all end up in a National Level 4 due to funding constraints by the UK Treasury. Enjoy the next 3 days...
Aye, certainly sounds like it.
Everyone around me booking staycations around the country, even brewery tours! Maybe it is a morale thing!
Bojo will have to include Scotland in the furlough scheme extension otherwise SNP will have indy ref 2 tied up with the new ammo
grantyboy
Free Member
Bojo will have to include Scotland in the furlough scheme extension otherwise SNP will have indy ref 2 tied up with the new ammo
It is included at the minute, the question is whether it'll be available at a later date. Which is probably going to be a no, at the minute. Cause basically what they are asking the UK to do is extend furlough for the next 2/3 months for all of the uk, as there won't be a situation where furlough is available in Scotland but not elsewhere, as that would be equally unfair. It's a UK wide policy.
The UK gov aren't will to commit to beyond the beginning of December at the moment. (though if I was to guess, it'll probably be extended into Jan and possibly further.)
travel locally (within around 5 miles of your local authority area) to reach a place to take exercise outdoors
restrictive to many, but probably good that it's now in black and white for reference.
Still open to interpretation. Starting / finishing a 200km Audax 5 miles into the neighbouring LA area still allows the Co-Op / garage shop etc 60 miles beyond that to be visited / infected. Very difficult to write water tight rules without a full lockdown.
Equally difficult to expect 'common sense' from punters who don't want to curtail their preferred activity. Munro Bagging from the central belt is now automatically 'oot the gemme' as even Ben Lomond is 20 odd miles from the Glasgow area. You can bet the hills will be as busy as ever.
Scotland, Wales and NI can only be included in the new/current furlough scheme if they go into the same lockdown in parallel with England, even thought that might not be the best time to do so given the disparity in infection rates.
To be honest, it's probably as good a time as any to go into some form of lockdown, instead of waiting til it's too late as that only succeeds in putting the brakes on a little.
Aside from the political / science arguments for / against alignment with England, if UK wide furlough timescale and availability is dominated by English infection rates and the other three countries aren't massively different, would it be financially prudent for all three devolved administrations to fully align and tap into the same benefits?
Aside from the political / science arguments for / against alignment with England, if UK wide furlough timescale and availability is dominated by English infection rates and the other three countries aren’t massively different, would it be financially prudent for all three devolved administrations to fully align and tap into the same benefits?
We'll find out tomorrow 🙂
Nobeerinthefridge
Free Member
To be honest, it’s probably as good a time as any to go into some form of lockdown, instead of waiting til it’s too late as that only succeeds in putting the brakes on a little.
yip, we're dragging it out longer than we need to be, whole uk should have had a 2 week lockdown 2 months ago. Then continual 2 weeks shutting as soon as there's a hint of a rise. until this vaccine appears.
scotroutes
Full Member
Scotland, Wales and NI can only be included in the new/current furlough scheme if they go into the same lockdown in parallel with England
that's not true btw. furlough is extended uk wide till december.
that’s not true btw. furlough is extended uk wide till december.
If businesses in Scotland, Wales and NI are open through November (and, say December) so are not using the Furlough... but then a circuit breaker of a few weeks is needed in those nations in January (when, let's suppose, it's not needed in England because we were shut down for six weeks before Xmas)... when businesses are closed then... will there be furlough available for those workers? Or do they need to be shut at the same time as businesses in England to make use of the Furlough scheme due to be closed? Time to recognise the ramifications of this UK government also being the English government (and acting primarily in English interests)... and how that makes people view the union outside England. Of course, inside England, we saw that Furlough wasn't available in the North of England, but is now available when the South is drawn into tougher measures... and we won't be forgetting that either.
Aye I get that, furlough is still available to businesses in Scotland till december though, and will be available when uk gov extends it, inevitably in december till january.
The Scottish gov should lockdown anyhow, this dragging it out is doing no-one any favours.
If Scotland can choose when it goes into "lockdown", it should also be able to make use of the Furlough scheme when it does so.
But it's a uk wide policy so it won't work that way. If scotland gets furlough at a later date, it'll apply across the uk. Which is why the uk gov will refuse to commit to it.
i'm not arguing right or wrong, we should be independent and dealing with this our own way anyhow. I'm just saying how I think it'll go.
scotroutes
Full Member
Scotland, Wales and NI can only be included in the new/current furlough scheme if they go into the same lockdown in parallel with Englandthat’s not true btw. furlough is extended uk wide till december.
as long as Scotland, Wales and NI go into the same lockdown in parallel with England.
No, if we don't lockdown, furlough is still available to companies in scotland throughout november.
No, if we don’t lockdown, furlough is still available to companies in scotland throughout november.
But not in December or January (etc) if the Scottish/Welsh/NI 'science' is best served by a lockdown out of sync with England?
I live in Perth & Kinross. I take the recent guidelines to mean that I could ride at Pitmedden, as this straddles the PKC boundary, ride in the Lomond Hills, ski tour at Drumochter (PKC/Highland), or piste ski at Glenshee (PKC/Aberdeenshire).
Sadly Glencoe ski area is 6 or 7 miles from the PKC boundary. It is a very tough and committing 6 or 7 miles too.
There are far worse local authorities to be stuck in.
The science isn't best served with a lockdown outwith england, if scotland locked down now, we'd get infection levels down quicker. The science says get the infection levels as low as you can as quick as you can and keep them there.
Plus the scottish tier system isn't based on pure science, it's based on science mixed with political and financial decisions.
If scotland needs to lockdown later, it means the decisions that are taken now were always going to be wrong anyhow.
At the very least sturgeon, today, should have called for business's that can use furlough and limit activity over the next month to do so voluntarily in the worst affected regions.
Aye, we'd be best served to lockdown for November, get on with it.
Scotland is doing significantly better in controlling the virus with reductions in infections across all regions as the government acted much earlier and with much less bowing to business interests. If we're forced into a Scottish lockdown because furlough isn't available outside the dates England is locked down that is simply a political move from BoJo & his merry numpties to make it look like they haven't screwed up so badly. We have the same rights to call our own lockdown as does England due to our devolved health system. As a doctor in the Scottish NHS I'm incredibly glad to have our guys in charge who actually made some hard but correct decisions in September.
Spot on speedstar.
Bawjaws intimating furlough funds would be available for a future lockdown, but obviously oot Nicola right to be sceptical.
speedstar
Full Member
Scotland is doing significantly better in controlling the virus with reductions in infections across all regions as the government acted much earlier and with much less bowing to business interests.
Agreed, but you can't deny infections would reduce even quicker with a lockdown now. Numbers are looking good as if we might have turned, but it's not guaranteed. Neither is UK support further down the line.
The feeling is currently in the medical community we might manage without a full lockdown but economics and medicine rarely gel
Agreed, but you can’t deny infections would reduce even quicker with a lockdown now.
I agree.
However Scot.Govt. is saying that a proper lockdown will harm or kill more people through postponed medical appointments and treatments, through poor mental health and through long term poverty impacts (etc).
This therefore has to be balanced against reducing CV spread to not overburden NHS or get out of control.
I would reckon that Boris's intimation re furlough funding will be gone like sna aff a dyke if Scotland or anyone other than Westminster tries to extend furlough when England (or the home counties) isn't in lockdown.
That makes a Scottish lockdown in November a massive decision. I am glad that it's not up to me.
matt_outandabout
Full MemberI agree.
However Scot.Govt. is saying that a proper lockdown will harm or kill more people through postponed medical appointments and treatments, through poor mental health and through long term poverty impacts (etc).
This therefore has to be balanced against reducing CV spread to not overburden NHS or get out of control.
For me this is all just an argument about political control.
For me this is all just an argument about political control.
I can understand the thinking but surely locking down now mainly to take advantage of the furlough scheme would be deeply unpopular? Also, probably better politically for the SNP to wait. If we don't need to lockdown later they claim credit, if we do and Westminster denies support then that could be the final nail in the coffin of the union.
Aye, that would be politics.
Moot point anyhow, furlough extended till march.
For me this is all just an argument about political control.
Having spent 12 hours in Forth Valley Royal this week, and speaking to nurses and doctors, there's most definitely a growing issue of backlog in testing, diagnosis and treatment. As a family, we've been waiting since March for a test.
I was speaking about the specific issue of the recent furlough arguments.
ah, as you were then. 😉
I'm just going to come out and say this because I'm sure others must feel it too, but AAAAAAARGH! I would have bitten off the hand of anyone who offered me a year off at 80% pay, instead my wife got let go by some unscrupulous bastards who refused to put her on furlough even when our MSP got involved and gave them a clear path to do so, and my company can't/won't put me on furlough despite looking for volunteers as I've been saddled with the world's worst project which no-one else in the office will touch with a very long shitty barge pole, and ironically which will probably reach completion just after furlough ends and with no other projects on the horizon, so I'll probably get laid off anyway.
....and breathe. Sorry, I can only see the positives of furlough, I'm sure it can be scary/boring/depressing after a while...
we’ve been waiting since March for a test
Why? I called up at 0830 for a test, got one for 1030, had the negative result for 1530 next day.
Someone at my gym has tested postive when I've been in training. It's a small gym that does personal training sessions. Everyone has their own dedicated equipment that's santised before and after sessions. No physical contact. Everyone spaced out more than 2 metres. I've been told by the gym that I haven't come into what track and trace define as close contact but I've been in last Tuesday and last night when the person was training. Apparently I don't need to isolate.
Get a test just now or wait for any symptoms?
I'd get a test and isolate till the result myself, track and trace is a crap check box exercise, that's been proven to be useless given current numbers.
I don't think you'd get a test in that situation Bob, although if you tell them you have symptoms, then you would get one, and then you'd know? pretty sure there'll be a fair bit of that going on, folk wanting a test rather than isolating for 2 weeks....
Nobeerinthefridge
Free Member
I don’t think you’d get a test in that situation Bob, although if you tell them you have symptoms, then you would get one, and then you’d know? pretty sure there’ll be a fair bit of that going on, folk wanting a test rather than isolating for 2 weeks….
tbh, I know going for a test with no symptoms isn't the current advice. But given how the virus can spread in a room, the whole 2 metre indoor thing is mental, particular if spending time in a room. aye it might limit things mildly, but it's no guarantee, and if the game is to break chains of transmission. everyone in that room plus potentially their contacts and maybe even going to another level oif contacts should be all isolating and testing.
For me that's why there's a fundamental failure of the test and tracing here.
Pretty much allowing asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people walk around with impunity.
If that was done during the summer, I think we'd be in an entirely different position right now. (Back in march/April, they can be excused for getting caught on the hop, but from the summer when it was very low, questions need asked)
Delayed symptomatic only testing, really only seems to be useful for identifying symptomatic people. Doesn't seem to be having any effect on breaking the chains of transmission, which is kinda the point of a testing system. Or at least should be...
That would be my logic for bullshitting a test if I felt I needed one. Cause if you are asymptomatic (and I'm not saying you are BB), I'd want to know if I'd was spreading the disease.
Local mtb group on Facebook organising a ride at Innerleithen on Saturday . We’re in glasgow health board . I’m pretty set on just riding old killpatrick’s and Cathkin for a bit and a couple of other local spots but I don’t know if people are going to stick to the 5 mile rule . I’m desperate for a trip to the golfie .
Local mtb group on Facebook organising a ride at Innerleithen on Saturday .
Hmm.
I'm open minded about the moving between health boards for remote solo exercise, but organising a group ride?
Yeah, my local club is still posting rides starting and finishing much futher afield than 5 miles outside our healthboard.
Disappointing as I thought (it's that sort of club) they were all quite reasonable, mild mannered types who I thought would see the benefit of abiding by the rules even if they personally didn't agree with them. Basically, if folk like that aren't following guidelines then it feels like nobody will!
I've abandoned my Trossachs plans for the weekend, hope I don't see a Strava feed full of other people having jollies...
Local mtb group on Facebook organising a ride at Innerleithen on Saturday . We’re in glasgow health board
Aye there's a lot of that going on,it's very much "Rules are for plebs,suck it up losers" #FFS.it'snoworsethantheflu
Nothing short of a curfew is going to stop some folk pissing about .
The game's a bogey and the baw's on the slates 🙁
I raised an eyebrow earlier when an ex work colleague who I think of as pretty decent posted up on Insta and FB with his 347 mile motorbike day out yesterday from Glasgow area to the lakes and back...
….and breathe. Sorry, I can only see the positives of furlough, I’m sure it can be scary/boring/depressing after a while…
Agreed. I was initially glad I was considered useful enough to not get furloughed in the spring, but having to go to work whilst colleagues got most of their pay (average overtime +80%) and weeks off work in the lovely weather soon changed my mind. I'm unlikely to get it this time either but at least those who do will have to put up with crap weather and darkness.
Nobeerinthefridge
Free MemberWhy? I called up at 0830 for a test, got one for 1030, had the negative result for 1530 next day.
Similar here, I literally thought "I wonder what the waiting time is for tests" and in the nearest centre, the answer was "you can have one in 3 minutes" I don't think I really met the criteria but I was the named visitor for my mum in hospital so, I got it done, the centre was quiet and the results came through quick. It was all really good.
So far as I can see the travel restrictions are now by local authority area not healthboard area.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/
Yep, that changed last weekend Gordy.
^^^^ yet many continue to rip it and blag about it online.. it’s true what they say about common sense.... it isnae very common.. 🤔
13FM isn't travelling during exercise exempt? Tho I thought groups rides had stopped...
at least those who do will have to put up with crap weather and darkness.
Jeez, bitter!
13FM isn’t travelling during exercise exempt? Tho I thought groups rides had stopped…
It was, until mid-weekish when they introduced a limit on how far outside your own local authority you could drive to start your exercise (5 miles).
So my pals in Aberfoyle either rode there and back from Linlithgow, or ignored the guidance.
yet many continue to rip it and blag about it online
And they'll continue to, what ye gonna do, chin them? no, and they'd tell you to **** off anyway. Avoid social media if it's pissing you off so much.
I had mates that went to Inners a fair few times in April and May, that's up to them, I didn't and still wouldn't but people are different, no point getting in a tiz about it, quite frankly it's way down my list at the moment.
no point getting in a tiz about it, quite frankly it’s way down my list at the moment.
But it's a thing that has the potential to affect everyone. Take the example of my friends car sharing up to Dunkeld in a group of four to spend a day breathing heavily next to each other, almost certainly less than 2m from each other because they're human beings so social creatures. If one of them has Covid then they'll all have Covid, and then they're part of the statistics that leads to the FM telling us all to not travel for even longer.
The sooner people start doing what they're told the sooner they won't need to be told what to do.
^^^^ absolutely agree on that nobeer. I have simply stopped following these people on Insta and Strava etc as it is entirely up to them what they do and if I don't see it I wont even think about it ! Surprising nonetheless when some are high profile, whether bike industry, kit ambassadors etc, buy hey ho, it's all down to individual choice
I appreciate that is stupidity MB, I'm merely making the point that unless you're gonna say something to them, and actually expect them to listen, you're shouting at the moon in here.
To be fair to the mates I mentioned going to Inners and Ae, none of them car shared, that's just mental, spending nearly 2 hours in a car together. Possibly added to the 'amount of cars at inners' posts too, as most of them would've been single occupancy.
munrobiker
Free MemberThe sooner people start doing what they’re told the sooner they won’t need to be told what to do.
And the sooner the government gets its act together in breaking chains of transmission the sooner people can stop their finger wagging.
Hopefully what ever they are doing in liverpool is successful.
Two things we need to break chains of transmission.
! Proactive testing of the vast majority of the population on a regular basis. Followed up by contact tracing.
2 Keep away from other people.
Number one will take a while (if we ever get it in place) number two we can do now.
None of this is easy.
A new low
Some innerleithen locals called the cops about the uplift today and they turned up 😂
wonder why they can't make it law not to travel out of or to tier 3 areas. Seeing plenty of people on IG going to the valley from Glasgow.
Why is that a low Bob?
wonder why they can’t make it law not to travel out of or to tier 3 areas.
Isn't that now being looked at?
Not surprising that Innerleithen locals might be getting pissed off, there's virtually been no Covid cases in the Tweed Valley in the last couple of weeks.
Yet despite travel from the central belt being against the rules, the roads today have been full of cars coming in from the direction of the central belt.