I had to take my mum to Perth Royal on Fri, so drive to her house to collect her , near St Andrews. Saw a fair few campervans and Motorhomes on the road, not exactly sure where they were going ?
You forgot the fact he was driving as well.
also pollok park to Milngavie is 8 miles as the crow flies or 10 miles by road
lol! Here's Poirot!
Saw a fair few campervans and Motorhomes on the road, not exactly sure where they were going ?
I know a few folk that their camper is their only vehicle (unsurprising as their not cheap!) Would also be a decent idea if they're visiting family, they have a toilet and washing facilities to use during the visit.
No doubt there will be some who are just fannies, mind.
Yeah campers I could understand but at least a dozen full bore motor homes, just seemed odd.
Yeah, once I am allowed to go fetch my campervan from Englandshire it'll be my only vehicle.
Having my own cooking/washing facilities is a big bonus for me as I am out of work so would like to spend this time going all round the country seeing the place and going mountain biking etc.
No money for normal accommodation and means I won't need to mingle with the mingers and catch their ming.
BoardinBob
Drove past Pollok Park early afternoon and you would’ve thought The Beatles had reformed and were playing an impromptu concert judging by the amount of folk streaming into the park.
Maybe that's the herd Boris was talking about? And perhaps they think if they're in a herd then they have that famous "herd immunity".
BTW anyone know the current R number for the Stupidity Contagion?
BTW anyone know the current R number for the Stupidity Contagion?
26 staff tested positive in one ward for C19 in my local hospital, this can be attributed to many factors, stupidity is not one of them.
People on here have lost family members, to refer to this virus as a stupidity contagion is really a bit dickish.
On the subject of driving camper van/motor homes about.
I suspect I’m about to find out not driving mine will have an associated cost.
@ imnotverygood @aberdeenlune People who live in the highlands and other remote/rural areas have no choice in what hospital they attend for anything other than basic day to day treatments. People choose whether to go on a daytrip/bike trip/ hillwalking.
Nobeerinthefridge
People on here have lost family members, to refer to this virus as a stupidity contagion is really a bit dickish.
Sorry you got that interpretation from my attempted humour.
I was referring to the people pouring into the park when the virus is still rampant. If that's not stupid, what is?
@nzcol - there was a flurry of tweets last weekend suggesting that the Highlands were about to be overrun by campervan and motor homes. I don't know where they ended up. Certainly none in evidence around here.
There are, undoubtedly, a few "visitors" around. Could be many are just making day trips, though some of the second/holiday homes are seeing the occasional use. I've also seen a handful of backpackers and bike tourers passing through the area. Probably all against the rules but at such low levels it might not matter.
Probably all against the rules but at such low levels it might not matter.
Agree it probably doesn't matter but the problem being that others see it and it influences their view of what is the norm, what is acceptable, and the risk then is that attitudes and behaviour change more widely.
I only have to look at local activity in our street, teenagers now out most evenings with their carrier bags of booze away to the forest for a meetup - starts with a few, now loads as it becomes normalised. Hard to convince my own 17yr old that he cannae go out with his mates...
Yeah campers I could understand but at least a dozen full bore motor homes, just seemed odd.
Possibly just giving it a run. Mine hasn't moved for months so it's definitely a temptation to give it a brief spin.
I did wonder that as I have a m/h too and while i checked it 5 weeks ago I was planning on riding over to get it tomorrow night (its 4 miles away ...) as I need to do some work inside it. Would mean a bit of a run as well. Like everyone else i've fitted the narrative to fit what I want to do !
The M/Hs I saw were on M90 heading N and S. One i passed was loaded, bikes on back etc. and one was towing a trailer car. So who knows.
It's interesting, theres a guy on the Pentlands forum getting a pasting for posting a snap of Allermuir at dawn this AM from his tent. While camping is not permitted his reason is that 'Everyone else is doing much worse stuff', which basically sums it up. Frankly i don;t give a monkeys if he stayed up there, I wouldn't post a pic of a sneaky overnighter but the narrative will always fit what you want it to.
Complaining about teenagers meeting up or people traveling more than 5 miles is now very much a case of shouting at the moon.
The focus for government advice should now switch to things that are more achievable long term like maintaining distancing, avoiding busy places, hand washing, cough etiquette etc, etc rather than issuing guidelines which are so ridiculously restrictive that people are bound to ignore them.
the narrative will always fit what you want it to.
And this is essentially what it boils down to. I'll be honest, if I had a motorhome with a toilet too right I'd be off seeing folk (reasonably close).
How close though - 5 miles, 10 miles, 20 miles, 50 miles ? It's a total shambles of politicking. Even my own family have p1ssed me off, last weekend they all decided to drive between 30 and 40 miles and meet in one of their gardens. I declined as I knew i needed to take my mum to the hospital last week so needed to be as clean as i possibly could be, she's very vulnerable. And they should know better, 3 of them work in the NHS FFS dealing with this every day !
Do what you think is right for you and you only, both ways.
And they should know better, 3 of them work in the NHS FFS dealing with this every day !
I think the message there is not that we need to tighten up more as individuals or a society but that we've reached the point where enough people have had enough of tight restrictions that they are no longer of much use. Pick your battles and all that.
lol! Here’s Poirot!
TBF I had looked into how close it was to my house before
The focus for government advice should now switch to things that are more achievable long term like maintaining distancing, avoiding busy places, hand washing, cough etiquette etc, etc rather than issuing guidelines which are so ridiculously restrictive that people are bound to ignore them.
What if that's not safe? What if the safe optioon is staying in your locality, not venturing into other health boards, not galvanting about in your car? It doesn't matter if they're restrictive, they've told you to do this for a reason. It's not just Nicola putting her finger in the wind and saying "aye, maybe we'll keep everyone local for a bit and see what happens".
Even my own family have p1ssed me off, last weekend they all decided to drive between 30 and 40 miles and meet in one of their gardens
FM said she was planning on visiting her mum, given Bute house is 75 miles from her mums home, I'd say your family is fine.
What if that’s not safe?
Whether it's safe or not is really a secondary issue now. The real issue is what is achievable.
It's clear that people are getting close to the point (and many are past it already) where they think that staying within 5 miles of home is not a realistic expectation.
There's only so much that you can ask individuals to do for the good of society/other individuals and it seems obvious to me that we're pretty close to that limit now. For the most part this is not selfishness or callousness but just human nature.
Sure, you can continue to push the 5 mile limit or such like but there isn't much point if great swathes of society ignore it and if they are ignoring it it would be much better to focus the message/resources on things that are achievable.
I agree Spin.
We need to identify high risk activity and focus of ways on containing and managing those activities, transport, workplaces, peoples homes, basically anything indoors or in a confined space.
We never knew much about this illness at first, so it was 100% correct to lockdown, but there's mounting evidence that outdoor activities are not high risk, so we learn and manage.
Think I'll head back to Mugdock tonight 😆
^^^^ I guess if you get there and it's busy you could drive over to Carron Valley... 🙂
^^^^ I guess if you get there and it’s busy you could drive over to Carron Valley…
Aberfoyle probably
Carron Valley? that's worse than that gravelling wilbury stuff you do up the windfarm. 🙂
t’s interesting, theres a guy on the Pentlands forum getting a pasting for posting a snap of Allermuir at dawn this AM from his tent. While camping is not permitted his reason is that ‘Everyone else is doing much worse stuff’, which basically sums it up. Frankly i don;t give a monkeys if he stayed up there, I wouldn’t post a pic of a sneaky overnighter but the narrative will always fit what you want it to.
I'm on that forum as well and did see that. I can't see any harm in actually doing a wild camp up there at the moment, however I also would most definitely would not be posting a picture of it.
3 of them work in the NHS FFS dealing with this every day
Oddly enough the NHS folks I know seem to be the least likely to be following lockdown. They're mostly doctors though, and some of them tend to feel the rules are for the little people...
Oddly enough the NHS folks I know seem to be the least likely to be following lockdown.
We've had same conversation here!
We've our own family who are nurses - they're out all over the place and allowing thier kids to congregate. Friends who are GP and Consultant - teenage party in thier garden, another Dentist and Radiographer - BBQ for friends in the Peak...
Forty or fifty people out on the Cobbler and Ben Narnain today. People are choosing to ignore over restrictive guidelines.
Lol, maybe choose a picture of the Cobbler path on a sunny weekend, or even the car park at the bottom? Will be heaving probably
Called it!
It’s clear that people are getting close to the point (and many are past it already) where they think that staying within 5 miles of home is not a realistic expectation.
Well there's only one more weekend to wait before the rules are reviewed again... if 70% of people are complying with the request it will still be beneficial, and the calculated risk will include an estimate of how many selfish ****s there are.
There’s only so much that you can ask individuals to do for the good of society/other individuals and it seems obvious to me that we’re pretty close to that limit now. For the most part this is not selfishness or callousness but just human nature.
The data is looking encouraging just now. The problem is people start to think its over and argue for "release" when actually sticking to our guns for a bit longer might help us become "New Zealand". Theres an interesting problem if you get new cases say North of Perth to be 0 for 2 weeks - could you open those areas but only for people who are in them? In one extreme you might even end up opening up all of Scotland but not the border! I can see situations where that might make sense (especially in R in scotland is low, incidence is v low but England has a second wave) but can you imagine the politics in that...
Sure, you can continue to push the 5 mile limit or such like but there isn’t much point if great swathes of society ignore it and if they are ignoring it it would be much better to focus the message/resources on things that are achievable.
But that really is the SG philosophy anyway, if you read the whole framework the phases are about doing exactly that, in such a way that you might have some hope of being able to see what causes the problem if R starts to rise too much and stamp out that specific issue rather than a "**** it" approach and now nobody is sure whether R in the NW and SW of England is high because of parties, beach BBQs, returning to work, reopening schools, holidays etc. The difference is you are expecting 99% compliance and they presumably are not (or they would have extended the legislation and removed ambiguous words like "broadly 5 miles").
Sounds as though Lewis Buchanan's video from last week has caused some noise
Was a bit naive to post it up in the first place, however quite understandable for current generation where that is normal modus operandi. I’m obviously an old fart...
I guess his sponsors don't do that out of the kindness of their hearts. Pretty sure his content has been much reduced and there's only so many "which colour frame do you prefer?" Insta posts you can do before everybody's fed up. If I lived in Innerleithen I'd be finding it pretty hard not to go up the Golfie just now, it's hard enough being 30 minutes up the road. My desire to ride locally is being sorely tested now.
Just considering a week on Harris or Islay. Bets on holiday accommodation being open with the ability to travel for the first week in August?
No chance.
Self catering cottage and the likes, potentially I'd say, hotel not so much.
Ferries? Who knows.
Self-catering might be a possibility come the middle of August I guess. That's when the schools go back so I'm expecting there will have to be significant changes all round. Prior to that, I'd say no chance. Folk on the islands are, understandably, nervous about opening up transport links. My wife hasn't been able to see her mother in Lewis since all of this first started. We're hoping that some dispensation might become available in July/August for compassionate visits.
Theres an interesting problem if you get new cases say North of Perth to be 0 for 2 weeks – could you open those areas but only for people who are in them? In one extreme you might even end up opening up all of Scotland but not the border!
This is already happening. There have been no new cases in Dumfries & Galloway and the Borders for weeks now but we stay in Lockdown because there are still a lot of cases elsewhere. Similar with the border. I could drive for 10 miles to cross the border (as I do every time I need to go to a supermarket) and then continue on for two and a half hours to ride at Kielder while adhering to guidance, but can't drive 10 miles to ride remaining in Scotland.
estimate of how many selfish * there are.
You've rather missed my point which was that this isn't people being selfish *s it's people being people.
Well there’s only one more weekend to wait before the rules are reviewed again
True, but even if they do move to phase 2 which isn't a given, it doesn't look significantly better in terms of travel. The 5 mile thing is dropped but it still says within local area only whatever that might mean.
see tbh, we're getting there eh? 2 days in a row no deaths, looking like we'll be death free in a few weeks? (crazy sentence to type, but we are where we are....)
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The 5 mile thing is dropped but it still says within local area only whatever that might mean.
5 miles is local TBF. This will just be abused even more than what already has been. it is far too ambiguous, people drove 10 miles when the guidance was 5 and they horded to luss at the weekend. The majority of the general public are idiots and need specific rules (even then they break them)
The majority of the general public are idiots
I totally disagree with this and think it is one of the most unpleasant, worrying and harmful secondary effects of this situation.
This will just be abused even more than what already has been....need specific rules (even then they break them)
You need to ask why so many people would not follow the recommendations. It's a complicated issue and it's too simplistic to say they're selfish or inconsiderate as many are quick to. I don't think my sister in-law was being selfish or inconsiderate when she drove 20 miles to see her elderly parents and yes, they sat in the garden 2m+ apart. I don't think my parents were being selfish or inconsiderate when they drove 15 miles to sit in an empty car park at a bird reserve and watch birds for half an hour. We've been pretty good on the whole with the lockdown thing as the numbers bear out but people need to get back to some sort of normality whilst still trying to keep the number of new cases down. The way to do that will not be strict rules about travel but all the other stuff about hygiene and social distancing, we're in this for the long haul and that's the stuff which is sustainable long term. There's plenty of wriggle room for the SG to do stuff that is safer than what England has done but still allow people some of the freedom they crave. In fact it's vital they do that if they wish to keep the public on side and have their general consent.
What these discussions remind me of is those who warned from early on that going into lockdown would be easy but coming out of it would be far far harder. I assumed at the time they meant doing it without a second spike but we're also seeing a lot of people who are very resistant to lifting measures.
My apologies if that doesn't really relate to the points you made, it turned into a bit of a ramble.
The majority of the general public are idiots and need specific rules
That's a hysterical and completely unjustifiable statement to be making.
