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ts not vaping that causes the problems.
Its idiots. (As always, with everything)
But you are only going to notice the idiots aren't you and laws are there to protect us from those idiots.
But you are only going to notice the idiots aren’t you and laws are there to protect us from those idiots
Which is why it’s foolish to mock and talk down to a whole wide ranging group based on the actions of a few of them ?
I’m not disagreeing with the current laws/regulations, they are all fine with me.
It’s fine for you to have your addiction but no need to share it with the rest of us.
I feel much the same about crowds of pissed up arseholes ruining town and city centres for everyone else.
I don't see too many people getting their aspirational underwear in a twist about that.
Its called desperately clinging on to something to mock, to make you feel superior.
In shock news person physically and mentally mentally addicted to substance cannot see any issue with said substance and feels people might be picking on them when they have the piss taken...
seriously the government should not be promoting addiction in any form
I feel much the same about crowds of pissed up arseholes ruining town and city centres for everyone else.
I don’t see too many people getting their aspirational underwear in a twist about that.
You obviously have not been looking very hard as there is always someone banging on about pissheads being a pain in the rectum. Mind you 20% of adults smoke and around 60% drink so there is an easier target. Times change, what was once normal is now unacceptable in many areas
Which is why it’s foolish to mock and talk down to a whole wide ranging group based on the actions of a few of them ?
Yep, which is why I haven't done that.
5 years ago I smoked 20 bensons a day. Now I dont.
This has made my life infinitely better in lots of ways. I’d imagine it’s made other people’s life infinitely better too.
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Chill the **** out! For everyone’s sake! Not least, your own
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Somebody keeps slipping to nicotine free in there......
Anyway as the thread started people were per$uading MP'$ to allow it indoors and on public transport. That is what people really don't want.
In shock news person physically and mentally mentally addicted to substance cannot see any issue with said substance and feels people might be picking on them when they have the piss taken…
Youve clearly not read much of what I’ve posted have you 🙄
Shock news, someone who is desperate to feel superior about something, didn’t bother reading the thread properly and just jumped in and had a pop.
Where did I say I cannot see any issue with it ?
I find it laughable that people consider e-cigs a wonderful thing. For sure it’s better than cigs but Nicotine is harmful to your body.
The op was regarding if MPs should be changing the rules to basically boost the profits of “big tobacco” and hook in another generation.
Times have changed and the majority of the public no longer smoke. As such people expect public spaces to reflect this
i don’t know any smokers or vapers who would actively recommend it to their kids. Would you go out and tell young people to take it up?
There is no properly verified scientific research to confirm that vaping is, in no way, damaging to health or is a successful long-term means to stop smoking. Having said that, even the disgusting chemical strawberry aroma is preferable to cigarette smoke.
Full disclosure - I worked for Imperial Tobacco for 20 years and enjoyed a good living on the back of that. In their library they had a book with the catching title 'smoking is good for you'; published in the US
It pisses me off that vapers wilfully ignore 'no smoking or e-cigarette' signs on the apparent basis that they believe vaping is harmless. Don't forget that it took decades to scientifically prove that smoking was damaging to health.
Vaping still involves holding something, putting it in your mouth and sucking it; it's a substitution for something else.
As for MPs pontificating - wtf do they know (about anything)? They have a public platform and use it; usually long on rhetoric but short on facts - vaping is another example.
Let's not stop the facts - or absence of proven scientific facts - stop anyone from spouting bollocks.
Anyway as the thread started people were per$uading MP’$ to allow it indoors and on public transport. That is what people really don’t want.
Good reminder. Do even the aggravated sounding vaperists on this thread support the change to let everyone vape away indoors and on public transport?
For sure it’s better than cigs but Nicotine is harmful to your body.
Don't smoke, never have but is this actually accurate? Highly addictive sure but I was under the impression that it's the other stuff in cigarettes and the like that are actually harmful.
The harm caused only by nicotine is debateable - if it exists, it is certainly dwarfed by the massive harms caused by cigarettes and their ingredients. There is evidence that it raises blood pressure, may cause accelerated hardening of the arteries, but none of this is conclusive.
The main issue for me is the lack of regulation in the manufacture and ingredients of e-cigarettes and vaping fluids.
This is a review of various studies, and worth a close read for anyone interested in the issue.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743514003739#bb0380
Again, the upshot is that nothing can be as bad as cigarettes, but if cigarettes didn't exist, we might be looking at this relatively safer thing with a more critical eye.
Using e-cigarettes certainly seemed to cause, in some patients, similar kind of short-term effects in the airway as smoking conventional fags - and of particular interest to me was the study which suggested that, in patients genetically susceptible to lung cancer, exposure to vapour caused similar patterns of gene expression in the cells which line the airway. Could this lead to the kind of cell changes which we don't want? We don't know yet.
Again, all small scale, inconclusive studies, but a massive warning light in the debate about allowing these products to be marketed more widely and used more freely in society. Anything which increases the chance of people who would never smoke a cigarette becoming addicted to nicotine cannot be a good thing.
If there are negative effects, they might not emerge for 20 years.
I'm happy for people to swap their Bensons for e-cigs - nothing is as bad as cigarettes. But taking the extra step and removing nicotine from your life altogether is the ideal choice, and hopefully we'll have enough information for it be an informed choice sooner rather than later.
Whether nicotine is bad for you long term or not it is still better to not have to be dependant on a drug. Needing to get a drug to just get you back to normal and beating withdrawal is not great.
Making it more appealing and therefore more people dependant is not the best thing to do is it.
Have you ever considered the totally mad, leftfield idea that maybe people do it not because they feel a tragic slave to their addiction, but because they actually enjoy it?
5 years ago I smoked 20 bensons a day. Now I dont.
This has made my life infinitely better in lots of ways. I’d imagine it’s made other people’s life infinitely better too.
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Havent read all the thread so maybe you have justification for your post but to me this just sounds like pure me, me, me me. Why would I care about your health? Why should I think oh great he's stopped smoking as I breath in your rank vape stuff? I dont care I about your better life I just want to live mine without myself or my family having to breath in your vape.
The idea that relaxing rules for public spaces would help people switch from smoking to vaping seems laughable to me. Smokers will just smoke elsewhere as will vapers.
Maybe the same me, me, me accusation could be levelled at someone who thinks that just because they don’t personally like something then it should be banned?
Maybe, but I never said it should be, if you want to do it I couldnt care less I just think the current rules regarding vaping shouldnt be relaxed.
it's interesting that our law makers want to relax regulation of e-cigs when other want to strengthen regs
http://cdph.ca.gov/programs/tobacco/Documents/Media/State%20Health-e-cig%20report.pd f">a community health threat
The facts outlined in this report indicate a high need to educate the public regarding safety concerns associated with e-cigarettes. These devices pose a poisoning hazard, particularly for children, but also for adults who may confuse e-liquid bottles with other products. The nicotine in e-cigarettes has lasting health implications to the brain development of teens and young adults, and there are indications that chemicals in e-liquids may pose a respiratory hazard to users and to those exposed to the aerosol emitted from these devices. Furthermore, there are worker safety and biohazard concerns regarding the conditions under which e-liquids are mixed and how materials are disposed. Increasingly, there are reports from schools and law enforcement agencies about the use of these e-cigarettes for other illicit substances.
The adverse health effects of e-cigarettes and their by-products make it clear that these products should be strictly regulated. Restrictions on marketing to youth and access by youth, protections to prevent poisonings—particularly among children—and education of the public on the dangers of e-cigarettes are important measures to take to address this growing public health threat.
I don't see any need to relax the rules on vaping, although it really doesn't bother me. Smokers and vapers have adapted to the current restrictions without any major issues.
Regarding the health issues, although there may be some unknowns at the moment, does anyone really think it's going to be anyway comparable to tobacco? Surely it can't really be any different from going in a sauna? Lots of water vapour with lots of stuff in it? (Including other peoples sweat."
Does anyone on here actually believe inhaling 2nd hand vape, on the street or in a beer garden, could offer any kind of significant health risk? Seriously? Have you ever put anything in the boot of a car when the engine is running? Have you ever stood on a platform when a diesel engine is pulling away? Ever welded, soldered, or brazed anything? There's a few divers on here, think of the concentrations of crap you get when breathing compressed air at 4 times atmospheric, no matter how well you think it has been filtered. The high PP's of the crap that comes of the inside of your steel cylinder will be way more harmful than some flavoured water.
Your diesel Audis are a much bigger problem that a bit of vape.
Isn't this whole thing just a debate at this point? I can't see any way that the rules will change. I don't think anyone is going to expect to be vaping away in the office or on the train? I know I'm certainly not.
I'm sure that simple fact won't lower the saddles on any elevated equines though 😉
Have you ever considered the totally mad, leftfield idea that maybe people do it not because they feel a tragic slave to their addiction, but because they actually enjoy it?
Of of course people enjoy it, it’s a stimulant! The fact that some people go through withdrawal when they stop smoking says something about the addictive nature.
As for nicotine being harmful the bulk of the work seems to be based around the full portfolio of mess that is in cigs. I do remember being told when an elderly relative lost the use of their legs that artery hardening could be brought on by nicotine. Some studies may suggest this but the data is still limited.
i would imagine that many of the people on here are old enough to remember smoking on planes, trains etc. Hell during freshers week cigarette companies came to my uni to give out 20packs and lighters. If you walked around different bars you could easily pick up a cartons worth. They kept doing this until around 2000 which seems crazy looking back.
sure e-cigs are better than cigs. The bulk of my family still smoke and if it could help them cut down I would recommend it. However, I do not believe that it should be promoted to a new generation.
I don't smoke or vape but I don't mind a bit of passive vape-smoke either. That said I wouldn't want to be a on a bus with limited ventilation and people puffing away. Probably be dangerous anyway, the driver wouldn't be able to see out after a few minutes :p
As for availability on the NHS, I guess if nicotine patches/gum already is then it's not really any different - presumably would be time-limited and part of a monitored weening-off-permanently programme.
Nicotine is present in potatoes and tomatoes.... by itself it's not a particularly nasty substance in small amounts, pretty comparable to caffein.
Cigarette smoke however contains other chemicals and 2 of them in particular make the some more addictive and several others more harmful than vapour. (I don't remember the names right now)
Second hand vapour contains almost no nicotine... despite a lot of people conducting tests specifically to proove otherwise because it condenses very quickly. In one test they published that they found aluminium oxides.. it was all they could find... but then questions were asked as to where the aluminium came from as it wasn't present in the device or liquid... and it turned out someone had used a spray deodorant BEFORE leaving home for the test.
It does however still contain the flavourings but loo at that in the context of walking down a street, walking past burning rubbish in a park etc. There is really no difference in carcinogens between burning any other leaves and tobacco leaves...
I'm allergic to something in many perfumes... like skin rash and blisters from contact and streaming and stinging eyes and headache from vapour but I'm not suggesting banning their use in public spaces... luckily the ingredient seems to be something old fashioned (Chanel 5 contains it)
Why do people vape (or smoke) outside stations?
Alan Carr summed this up in his give up smoking book way before vaping was invented. Restrictions just end up with people smoking/vaping more... i.e. before you get into an uncontrolled situation where you might not... and then as soon as you get out.
Why is it appropriate for some people?
Different people have different tolerances for different addictions.
I personally never found alcohol difficult to stop... despite at times being a heavy drinker (a bottle of spirits most days) I could just stop... smoking however was completely different. It would be hypocritical of me to suggest alcoholism or other addictions that are/were easy for me to quit are easy for everyone.
I also tried the champix type stuff... this sent me loopy very quickly. Let's just say my neighbour was a nurse and her son had bad reactions... but the way it screwed with my head I didn't realise how it was messing.
Those that still smoke will mainly have tried everything else... and it hasn't worked.
Obviously most wish they had never started but we are where we are.
Restricting vaping products (or similar) is a mixed bag. Quite honestly I wouldn't want to see people taking it up but its also not a great idea to make it harder to get than the "real things".
despite at times being a heavy drinker (a bottle of spirits most days)
Thats not heavy drinking thats hard core alcoholism
At vapes don't leave ****ing filthy butts all over the street. I've got 3 smokers in the road my house backs onto and the fagbutts all over the paths are just skank.
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've noticed vape smoke.
Thats not heavy drinking thats hard core alcoholism
But it wasn't alcoholism.... because I could stop any time with no problem.
I wasn't waking up craving a drink etc. I'd just be out with friends of a night.
I was frequently working in dry countries and I'd just stop... get bad and go out on the piss with my mates a few weeks/months later.
My point really is different addictions hit different people very differently. Most of the people still smoking are in the group that find it much harder or they would have given up.
Lots of people get over opiates and still can't stop smoking whereas others quit smoking really easily..
Excluding last week when I was on holiday and had wine with a meal I can go a month or longer and not touch a drop... but put me where i can't get nicotine and I'm immediately on edge and going stir crazy... and it prevents me working.
Essentially tho - the vape smoke has been inside someone, so it's full of their germs etc.. breathing all of that crap in when it's already been inside someone is kind of gross in my eyes.
I have no problem with people smoking or vaping in general & think the current regulations about smoking/vaping in public places is fine & needs no tightening or loosening.
I dont care I about your better life I just want to live mine without myself or my family having to breath in your vape.
the vape smoke has been inside someone, so it’s full of their germs etc..
Any chance you could stop breathing within 50metres of my vicinity please? 😆
Essentially tho – the vape smoke has been inside someone, so it’s full of their germs etc.. breathing all of that crap in when it’s already been inside someone is kind of gross in my eyes.
Agreed, it's almost like their breath has become visible. I wouldn't want to be breathing in the air someone else has had in their lungs previously. Oh wait....that doesn't work does it!!!!
People don't really think through what they type much. Prince John....I'm seeing the Prince Regent from Black Adder! Nice chap but farking stoopid!
But it wasn’t alcoholism…. because I could stop any time with no problem.
This is a complicated subject.
I drink a lot of alcohol, not a lot of spirits but lots of beer and wine.
I drink way to excess when I'm home but as I work offshore and onboard dry ships, for 4 to 6 mths of the year, I just stop once I'm there. According to some, from the quantity I can typically drink, I should not just stop as it will make me ill. It doesn't. I just stop. This is normally around 4 weeks but frequently it's 7 or 8 weeks.
I definitely feel better for not drinking for a few weeks. However, I don't crave alcohol when I'm working but the first thing I do when I get to the airport on the way home is to have a beer.
Some people would say this makes me alcohol dependent and hence an alcoholic. Others say if you don't "need" a drink everyday then you are not an alcoholic.
Personally, I enjoy a drink but know it's not good for you and will probably reduce my intake when I'm at home in the future.
I'm quite typical of people in my industry and I know plenty who drink a lot more than I do when home and then never touch drop for weeks at a time.
Addiction is a complicated thing.
There are some proper wee snowflakes on here... 🙂
People don’t really think through what they type much
My thinking was more the massive cloud of vapour when someone exhales vaping, compared to the amount of breath you see on a cold day
There are some proper wee snowflakes on here…
I know, make one joke about vaping or asking them to be considerate and they are off on one like the American gun nuts.
My thinking was more the massive cloud of vapour when someone exhales vaping, compared to the amount of breath you see on a cold day
🙂 Still not got it have you! You really think that the boundary of air from someone's lungs on a cold day is the visible breath? Bless xxx
clue - think about a ripe fart. One of those ones that emanates as a tiny little pocket of gas but the person the other side of the room falls over. Then think how much more air is in a full lung full of expelled breath. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not travelling.
Still not got it have you! You really think that the boundary of air from someone’s lungs on a cold day is the visible breath? Bless xxx
That's highly patronising - well done. Your mummy must be proud of her little vaping child.
Your mummy must be proud of her little vaping child.
Never vaped in my life. Or smoked for that matter. My childish mind just finds incomprehension amusing sometimes. Lots of reasons to be anti smoking (and some anti vaping) but yours was not one of them.
I wonder if any studies have been made to see if the transfer of airborne germs is increased in vapor which would probably make a very nice carrier.
I dont care I about your better life I just want to live mine without myself or my family having to breath in your vape.
the vape smoke has been inside someone, so it’s full of their germs etc..
Any chance you could stop breathing within 50metres of
I like the way you have combined posts from two people for effect.
Why would there be any more germs in vapour than in your breath?
Perhaps you need to get one of these? It’s a really really scary world out there. Pretty much everything is trying to kill you! Especially bastard vapers like me!
I like the way you have combined posts from two people for effect.
Yes, you are correct, not like I needed to, they were ridiculous enough on their own! 😆
Why would there be any more? Because there's a lot more moisture to cling to? It would also probably give a nicer conditions for longer survival on any hard surfaces. I think it's a reasonable question when the topic is use in public areas. Perhaps hospital waiting rooms etc. Thank you for the sarcastic picture though.
I’d stay in that oxygen tent if I were you
So
I dont care I about your better life I just want to live mine without myself or my family having to breath in your vape.
Is ridiculous
Yes, you are correct, not like I needed to, they were ridiculous enough on their own!
I'll remember this next time TJ has a rant about not wanting to be approached by other peoples friendly dogs for example. I really cant see how people not liking vape fumes in public spaces is that hard to understand.
You ok Hun? XX