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it is still a drug with high levels of addiction. Shouldn't be used in public places. Shouldn't be on prescription either.
Do you have the long term impact studies of vaping yet? What is the 10-20 year health consequences?
No idea, there is a possible risk. Agreed?
How am I taking things on blind faith? I’m asking for evidence of the risks, not really getting presented with anything other than, it might do, but we don’t know yet. I agree with that. There’s a risk, personally that risk is going to be better than smoking for me, so how hum. It’s all good in my case.
Well, you took it on blind faith from some article that vaping isn't attracting kids, while the study that the Committee cite in their actual report on this states that "the proportion of young people ‘experimenting’ with e-cigarettes ranged between an eighth and a quarter of young people, but that regular use by secondary school children was limited to about 1%, and those children generally engaged in smoking behaviour".
I interpret finding that 12.5% - 25% of kids are 'experimenting' must mean it's quite attractive.
I'm not going to read the Association for Young People’s Health's report and see what they mean by 'young people' and 'experimenting', and what their sampling strategy was, but feel free to go ahead and refute me.
Well, you took it on blind faith from some article that vaping isn’t attracting kids
I didn't really, am sure some will, that's a parental issue though, not really a concern when speaking of wider attitudes regarding adults. It's comepletely irrelevant to the discussion and as mentioned it's already illegal for kids to buy vapes. It's just screaming, won't someone think of the children...
I interpret finding that 12.5% – 25% of kids are ‘experimenting’ must mean it’s quite attractive.
and 1% suggests it's not that attractive.
Where does everyone stand on pongy cheese? Should be banned?
Why would we want to normalise to use of these products?
Because they help people give up smoking. Supposedly.
Fish, lets ban fish!
If it starts being widely advertised and touted as “95% less harmful than cigs”, maybe more children will want to try it?
It's kinda your job to control your kids, not mine.
It’s just screaming, won’t someone think of the children…
It's not just that though, is it? The evidence the Select Committee cites on the long-term health effects of vaping is just as flimsy - well, actually they admit there isn't any:
"There are strong uncertainties, nevertheless, especially about any long-term health effects of e-cigarettes, because the products have not yet had a history of long use. The studies needed to guarantee the safety of e-cigarettes are inevitably frustrated by the absence of a population of e-cigarette users who have never smoked conventional cigarettes before taking up vaping."
How about keeping the rules the same at the moment which says no vaping inside buildings, I can see many companies just keeping it as a policy even if the law was relaxed. I can't see many transport companies wanting to relax the rules too as the vast majority of people don't use this stuff and most people can mange a short amount of time without a hit. Like I said you want your hit inside try the gum or patches!!
What benefit is it to anyone to allow it inside?
Where does everyone stand on pongy cheese?
QC area at the cheese factory.
Is this relevant ?
Bloody mps lobbying when they ought to be doing proper constituency stuff thats the wrongness.
What about those plug in air freshener things?
They need banning!
In fact; **** it.... lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
What benefit is it to anyone to allow it inside?
tbh, I'm not particularly fussed either way, pretty much no-one ever notices me vaping and if they do on the odd occasion I'll stop, so I don't particularly care all that much. You do over egg the issues ridiculously though (mind you I do agree on the strawberry super clouds 😆 ).
Biggest benefit however would be to completely isolate smokers and encourage even more of a shift to vaping.
I think indoor air fresheners should be banned. Not because of the smell but because inhaling chemicals is not likely to be healthy.
well, actually they admit there isn’t any
So what action should be taken on this complete lack of evidence? 😆
In fact; **** it…. lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
We could just ban inconsiderate ****s.
In fact; **** it…. lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
How do you propose I walk????
So what action should be taken on this complete lack of evidence?
Not make statements like e-cigarettes are 95% less harmful than tobacco, for a start.
Are you familiar with the null hypothesis, type 1 and type 2 errors, and which is more dangerous?
Because they help people give up smoking. Supposedly
Methadone helps heroin addicts.
As I mentioned before, if you want one as a stop smoking and quitting nicotine aid, as I did, you can get ones that give off little vape and bother no one. The fancy pants smoke machines point to the whole scene going in a completely different direction with people having no desire to give up nicotine and therefore be one step away from smoking again. No need to change anything, except they will because they'll make money.
And lets not forget which towering examples of ethical business run the show
MP's pushing these type of 'initiatives' should be the real worry! Get the populous wound up about allsorts of other stuff other than the democratic process that they are grandly arsing up!
...... Reading through the last few pages and elsewhere, seems to me they are managing the mess pretty well?
Someone somewhere is thinking of money.
I think the whole thing is a ploy to make it socially acceptable, get as many people as they can to take it up, then regulate and tax the shit out of it .
What is the 10-20 year health consequences?
I gave up smoking when I got my first ecig on the 4th October 2008. So will have been 10 years in about 6 weeks
Never been fitter or healthier.
Just passed a full medical and fitness test with flying colours, my results were that of a fit 30 year old, and I am 45. . I ride 200+ miles a week.
As a smoker I struggled to exercise at all, and weighed 4 stone more than I do now
I will check in again another 10 years though, just to be thorough.
👍
They are repulsive vile things and people who use them look like they are playing a shit piccolo. At least smoking was cool.
Here in Germany I work as an event chippy and one of my clients is a very large tobacco company. It's not BAT, so the other one.
I could the stands for them.
They are present at all German political events. Behind the screens of the auditorium there is a large area given over to all the lobby groups or companies with a vested interest in the economy.
Audi, BMW, McDonald's, the arms industry, the gambling lobby, etc....
Each of these companies or lobby groups are throwing money at the party to be there regardless of whether it's a CDU/CSU, SPD, the Greens, FDP or even - in the earlier days of the party - the AFD.
The tabacco company used to have out free packets of cigarettes. Now that's uncool so they havehand their version of e-commerce that burns real tabacco.
Tabacco advertising isn't banned in Germany. Germany is the largest manufacturer of legal cigarettes in the EU.
Believe what you want about the health benefits of e-cigs, but don't think that government came to the conclusions on their own accord.....
I gave up smoking when I got my first ecig on the 4th October 2008. So will have been 10 years in about 6 weeks
Whereas I gave up smoking 15 years ago and it made no difference. I weigh more now than I did when I smoked and I am less fit (mainly because I am older). If only I had started vaping I could have been so much fitter...
Whereas I gave up smoking 15 years ago and it made no difference. I weigh more now than I did when I smoked and I am less fit (mainly because I am older). If only I had started vaping I could have been so much fitter…
aoddly enough, I’m older too.
But it was smoking 40 B&H a day that was preventing me from exercising and getting healthy. As a result I was fat unfit and unhappy.
Vaping allowed me to remove that barrier and get fit and healthy. Happy days! No negative health implications either. 10 years so far and nothing whatsoever.
And I have a full medical annually that checks everything (for other reasons)
Someone asked for the 10 - 20 year health implications, and that is my experience (of the 10 year at least)
I’m not going to change anything about that situation, because it changed my life and that is pretty awesome.
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at.
Crack on whiners 👍
You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time 😫
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at. Crack one whiners . You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time
Just asking that you don't do it in all the places you are not allowed to at the moment, not exactly having a meltdown there are we?
That and a concern about the regulation and level of advertising going on.
Just asking that you don’t do it in all the places you are not allowed to at the moment
I don’t. So that’s fine.
...not exactly having a meltdown there are we?
No, quite right. All perfectly measured and reasonable comments 👍
They are repulsive vile things and people who use them look like they are playing a shit piccolo
Keep your vape to yourself!I wouldn’t trust those fekers as far as I could throw them, I don’t want your stinking douche stick filling my nose it’s pong...
its a social marker saying ‘i’m an addict’if anything it should be administered and controlled like methadone use for heroin addicts.
I always feel a bit sorry for people I see vaping,it just looks a desperate chore.
It may not be as severe as what smoking tobacco does to you but there will be somethingat some point in the future we will find something in the vapour that is killing people.
..perhaps make them do it on derelict brownfield sites well away from the rest of us.
Like fellating robocock.
As I said. Crack on whiners. 😫
Just to say that ain't a meltdown, that is called taking the piss....
Its called desperately clinging on to something to mock, to make you feel superior.
Some people always need something or someone to look down on, to make them feel better about themselves maybe ?
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at.
You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time.
Nothing to do with feeling 'superior', the question is, WHY do you feel that non smokers/vapers within a five meter radius (or more), have to put up with your clouds of poison/sickly smelling vapour?
Any activity of an individual that has direct implications for other people that do not want to take part or be involved in said 'activity' that share the space (be it public or otherwise) should have restrictions in place that ensure it is their responsibility to insure they do not impinge or inconvenience other people.
Sitting in a pub garden or cafe enjoying a pint or a coffee on a sunny day only to have someone sit nearby and start blowing out plumes of vapour is anti social. Basically you choose to smoke/vape, we do not choose to share it with you and why you think if we don't like it we are the ones that should move away says so much about you!
The sadness is needing to poison yourself with the fags or buying into the unproven hype and marketing of vaping lining the pockets of the baccy companies that have no interest in your wellbeing in the slightest.
Neal, what's your opinion on smokes since you quit? Do you still have the occasional one or does the smell turn your stomach (and everywhere in between)?
Interested to know as since you vape I assume you're still addicted to nicotine? If that's so I'm interested to know how you'd deal with cravings if you couldn't get hold of a vape thing? Would you just crack on or would a cheeky Marlboro Light be required until you could get another E-Cig?
Genuinely not a loaded question, I'm just interested as an ex-smoker. It was always the cravings that got me but using the E-Cig weened me off the habit and once I'd broken that (One in the morning, one on the way to work, one at dinner time, etc replaced with a quick toot if I got a craving) I found it easy to just stop all of it. I imagine if I'd just replaced tabs with the electric version I'd still have smoked the occasional real one so been vulnerable to taking it up again. I liked smoking you see, or at least the one every now and then that really hit the spot. I'm long enough stopped now though to never want to go back.
the question is, WHY do you feel that non smokers/vapers within a five meter radius (or more), have to put up with your clouds of poison/sickly smelling vapour?
I don’t.
Do you have any other questions ?
..why you think if we don’t like it we are the ones that should move away says so much about you!
Making claims about me based on things I haven’t said says so much about YOU 👍
The sadness is needing to poison yourself with the fags or buying into the unproven hype and marketing of vaping lining the pockets of the baccy companies
10 years smoke free and fit as a fiddle isn’t “unproven hyper marketing” its just a fact
And nothing I buy to make my juice or vape it has lined the pockets of any tobacco companies. I’m sure that would be possible if I looked into it and tried, but currently I don’t
Menthol crystals from a herbalist online, Glycerine from Boots, distilled water, Nicotine juice from a specialist manufacturer in Chesterfield. Hardware from a Manufactuter in Greece that started out making custom vapes for himself 11 years ago and grew.
No “big tobacco” involvement at all
Neal, what’s your opinion on smokes since you quit? Do you still have the occasional one or does the smell turn your stomach (and everywhere in between)?
Interested to know as since you vape I assume you’re still addicted to nicotine? If that’s so I’m interested to know how you’d deal with cravings if you couldn’t get hold of a vape thing? Would you just crack on or would a cheeky Marlboro Light be required until you could get another E-Cig?
The smell doesn’t tun my stomach (if it’s fresh it’s quite nice still actually)
but I had my last cigarette while opening the parcel that was my first ecig in Oct 2008.
I do still have nicotine in my juice, but I make my own can fine tune it, and it’s about as weak now as a 2-3 per day smoker. So no massive issues if I forget it. Just habit and mild annoyance, same as if I forgot my phone I suppose.
Would honestly never even cross my mind to have a cigarette.
I don’t smoke 👍
10 years smoke free and fit as a fiddle isn’t “unproven hyper marketing” its just a fact
And nothing I buy to make my juice or vape it has lined the pockets of any tobacco companies. I’m sure that would be possible if I looked into it and tried, but currently I don’t
Menthol crystals from a herbalist online, Glucerine from Boots, Nicotine juice from a specialist manufacturer in Chesterfield. Hardware from a Manufactuter in Greece that started out making custom vapes for himself 11 years ago and grew.
No “big tobacco” involvement at all
Your a rarity then, the links I posted above tell you how much the big tobacco companies are in this game. Also a rarity in not thinking it's acceptable to do it right next to people or in places where it's not allowed - see Manchester Tram platforms....
The crowds of people outside train stations or offices tell a very different story, the money being made by big tobacco tells another one.
The DIY option also reminds us as to how unregulated the whole industry is, chances are most people don't know what is in their vape, and others can put what they like in them.
the links I posted above tell you how much the big tobacco companies are in this game.
To be honest, the links you posted show that 80% of the market is nothing to do with the Tobacco Companies.
And as someone who is very familiar with the brands that are available (10 years experience) I have never heard of any of the brands that ARE owned by the tobacco companies.
The list of Independants though, I am familiar with most of them.
Tobacco companies are a TINY player in the market.
The DIY option also reminds us as to how unregulated the whole industry is,
Not really, a DIY option is always available if you do some research and find out how to do it. (Whatever it is)
There are loads of regulations that have been applied to the industry over time. I used to be able to buy 5000ml tubs of 75% nicotine solution. Now I can buy a max size of 10ml and max strength of 18%
due to it being well regulated
and that’s just as a “civilian” actual manufacturers have had massive regulation changes in the last few years. I know a few of them quite well, and they are constantly changing.
To call it an “unregulated industry” is greatly misinformed I’m afraid.
Thanks for that Neal. I see, you've reduced the nicotine to a point where you can control it. Similar to what I did I suppose as the E-Cigs I used were pretty naff and didn't give much of a hit. Made packing them in surprisingly easy in the end. I never really enjoyed the electric version so had no desire to keep up with them.
the E-Cigs I used were pretty naff and didn’t give much of a hit. Made packing them in surprisingly easy in the end.
Sounds like you hit the sweet spot though. Good enough to help you quit smoking, but not good enough to make you want to carry on.
At the level of Nicotine I take every day, I am almost certain that my Caffiene intake would be more of a concern, if I was looking at quitting something.
The fact I make my own juice and know exactly what goes into it does help. But any juice bought from an actual business (not a market stall!) will have strict controls as to what goes into it.
But on a business level, the base ingredients are sooooo cheap, that switching them for something else would be more expensive anyway.
I think they are a revelation.
What does bug me though are those that put out huge plumes of vapour, that is antisocial but that's to do with the type of liquid used, most are a combination of PG and VG, forget which is which but one causes much more visible vapor if the ratio is out of whack.
Also some devices are much more high power.
I have a fairly standard vape but I can adjust the power on it to produce loads of vapour but it's pointless, I have it an a low /medium setting and if I take small drags rather than lungs full there's hardly any visible vapor compared to some and it disperses in tenths of a second as opposed to the idiots who pump out Cumulonimbus clouds.
the idiots who pump out Cumulonimbus clouds.
This is the issue.
Its not vaping that causes the problems.
Its idiots. (As always, with everything)
I sometimes ramp up the power and take a big hit (it’s nice) but only when I’m out and about somewhere or on my own etc.
Walking through town, I would take smaller hits and not on high power. Hardly any vapour and doesn’t last at all.
Funny how we always roll our eyes at the idiots who moan about “Cyclists” in general, because some go through red lights ir whatever.
But it’s somehow ok to do exactly the same to any other group as long as you aren’t part of it. 👍