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I don’t see any need to relax the rules on vaping, although it really doesn’t bother me. Smokers and vapers have adapted to the current restrictions without any major issues.
I really agree with this post - let the current smokers and vapers get on with what they are doing right now. Let's not relax regulations and certainly let's not start allowing advertising vape products - I really do not see one single positive in doing that.
This is a complicated subject.
I drink a lot of alcohol, not a lot of spirits but lots of beer and wine.
I drink way to excess when I’m home but as I work offshore and onboard dry ships, for 4 to 6 mths of the year, I just stop once I’m there. According to some, from the quantity I can typically drink, I should not just stop as it will make me ill. It doesn’t. I just stop. This is normally around 4 weeks but frequently it’s 7 or 8 weeks.
I definitely feel better for not drinking for a few weeks. However, I don’t crave alcohol when I’m working but the first thing I do when I get to the airport on the way home is to have a beer.
Some people would say this makes me alcohol dependent and hence an alcoholic. Others say if you don’t “need” a drink everyday then you are not an alcoholic.
Personally, I enjoy a drink but know it’s not good for you and will probably reduce my intake when I’m at home in the future.
I’m quite typical of people in my industry and I know plenty who drink a lot more than I do when home and then never touch drop for weeks at a time.
Addiction is a complicated thing.
Sounds to me like you're like me with alcohol.. though I barely drink now as my lifestyle changed but I wasn't ever drinking aftershave offshore. I also have known a few people that do the same with smoking but different people.
I've been a heavy drinker numerous times but largely from social aspects and presently have a nearly 9yr old and I was drinking 8+ pints most nights before he came along.
One of the things about rotation though is you feel it's time to catch up.... your beer at the airport becomes more of a defining thing... and most of the people you socialise with tend to also be on rotation...
I switched that though... now when I'm flying home I start checking for uplift availability etc.
I don’t see any need to relax the rules on vaping, although it really doesn’t bother me. Smokers and vapers have adapted to the current restrictions without any major issues.
I really agree with this post – let the current smokers and vapers get on with what they are doing right now. Let’s not relax regulations and certainly let’s not start allowing advertising vape products – I really do not see one single positive in doing that.
Same here except I dont like the vape fumes, mind you I have the same problem in some peoples houses with those plug in air fresheners...make me gag.
5 years ago I smoked 20 bensons a day. Now I dont.
This has made my life infinitely better in lots of ways. I’d imagine it’s made other people’s life infinitely better too.
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
So you've gone from smelly, unhealthy and selfish to slightly less smelly, unhealthy and selfish? Wow! Still at least you've the 2018 award for the most inappropriate use of the word "infinitely" to look forward to.
We were sat at a table in an outdoor bar at the Fringe last week. Couple of "vapers" sat down next to us with that disgusting stuff blowing in our faces. Asked them politely to stop or move. Total refusal. Selfish sods.
Apologies if that all sounds like a rant but I have asthma which doctors say is most likely the result of lots of smokers smoking when near me when I was young so maybe you can understand why I have little sympathy for any of them.
Lets ban air fresheners! 😆 While we are at it, i don't like your family, lets ban your family! 😆
Let’s not relax regulations and certainly let’s not start allowing advertising vape products – I really do not see one single positive in doing that.
the garage nearest to me has an advertising board, 2 flags and a massive display of them. Branded to look cool and appeal to younger people. The advertising has already started and it's going to keep going, they now have a nice blank space in front of the ciggs to put the adverts on
I wouldn’t fancy being the ad agency tasked with the brief of making vaping look ‘cool’
i wish you lot would make your minds up. One minute we look like nob-heads (fellating C3PO etc etc), the next it ‘looks cool’
Well, it’s either one or the other?
Which?
Lets ban air fresheners!
While we are at it, i don’t like your family, lets ban your family!
Comprehension is not a strength of yours is it!! Life must be tough for you all I can offer is my sympathy.
Well, it’s either one or the other?
Not sure why you think that has to be the case, I think sliders and socks is beyond stupid, others dont.
I wouldn’t fancy being the ad agency tasked with the brief of making vaping look ‘cool’
i wish you lot would make your minds up. One minute we look like nob-heads (fellating C3PO etc etc), the next it ‘looks cool’
They need to make the concept look cool, like drinking alcopops back in the day. I assume you have seen some of the branding and advertising, whats your professional onions on that?
So you’ve gone from smelly, unhealthy and selfish to slightly less smelly, unhealthy and selfish? Wow! Still at least you’ve the 2018 award for the most inappropriate use of the word “infinitely” to look forward to.
We were sat at a table in an outdoor bar at the Fringe last week. Couple of “vapers” sat down next to us with that disgusting stuff blowing in our faces. Asked them politely to stop or move. Total refusal. Selfish sods.
Apologies if that all sounds like a rant but I have asthma which doctors say is most likely the result of lots of smokers smoking when near me when I was young so maybe you can understand why I have little sympathy for any of them.
In reverse order ...
If they had vaping bad then it's pretty likely you wouldn't have developed the asthma ....
It's really hardly more disgusting than man perfumes/deodorants and less harmful than many deodorants!
The unspoken rule I follow ... if someone is there first then that's completely different.
I was sat outside in the smoking area of the airport (Palma) the other day... specifically designated smoking... and had some germans sit next to me then ask me to stop.... there were lots and lots of seats...
Had I gone into the smoking area and instead I'd sat next to them I'd have looked for someone already smoking or vaping... even though this was a designated smoking area.
From my perspective I understand your distaste but in reality its some perfumed vapour.. I hesitate to mention but one of the really disgusting odours I find is Red Bull... the smell really turns my stomach.... possibly only rivalled by Jaegermaester... and I've left places before because of this but I'm not axing for them to be banned (even with possible health risks)
Dunno about cool, but isn't "pluming"a thing? (As in some ecigs/formulae make more vape.) Spec with the cyberpunk crowd, with their little chimneys? Whatever, it looks a bit daft and frankly as a very ex smoker I prefer the smell of tobacco, but jesus ****ing christ, we're talking less lung cancer here, fewer orphaned kids. And people object to the occasional waft of air freshener? Why won't you think of the children!
(Hitting the right tone for this discussion?)
From my perspective I understand your distaste but in reality its some perfumed vapour.. I hesitate to mention but one of the really disgusting odours I find is Red Bull… the smell really turns my stomach…. possibly only rivalled by Jaegermaester… and I’ve left places before because of this but I’m not axing for them to be banned (even with possible health risks)
and if they were vaporising this and spraying it around I'd be concerned. Which places did you have to leave because of the smell?
Comprehension is not a strength of yours is it!! Life must be tough for you all I can offer is my sympathy.
No need to get your knickers in a twist about me. I'm doing fine laughing at the silliness of all this! 😆
I’ve left places before because of this but I’m not axing for them to be banned
Not sure anyone is here, just saying rules dont need to be relaxed.
I’m doing fine laughing at the silliness of all this!
I expect that happens a lot with you, cute!
I would keep regulations on Smoking in public places as they are right now.
However, I have nothing against the lifting of certain rules that do seem bit silly to me. Limiting a vape tank to 2ml has no effect what so ever - it just causes people to fill up more often!
Same here except I dont like the vape fumes.
I don't like the fumes either but I find their allowed use just about on the tolerable scale. Sitting in a train carriage with people vaping in it during my commute certainly wouldn't be tolerable.
I expect that happens a lot with you, cute!
The world is full of silly people that get upset at all manner of trivialities.
Stevextc, just noticed your comments about Baku on the other thread. Without any knowledge about you and just putting it out there, my brother used to drink like you talk about going dry when on rigs etc and he died in Baku due to the drinking. Glad to here your ways have changed.
The world is full of silly people.
Obviously
Does it really come down to much more than tobacco money pulling the strings in the background? The battle may be lost for them cigarette wise, but the war of rinsing people for money regardless of any moral cost is far from over. It's a bright new future of addiction! It reminds me of Yes Prime Minister.
Rinsing people for money? Jesus! What planet do you live on?
My ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
My ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
Most of the tenner is tax and yet tobacco companies make money so your point might not be valid.
Stevextc, just noticed your comments about Baku on the other thread. Without any knowledge about you and just putting it out there, my brother used to drink like you talk about going dry when on rigs etc and he died in Baku due to the drinking. Glad to here your ways have changed.
Thanks... I don't see me ever going back to that amount of drinking unless I'm ready to die.
Sorry to hear about your brother though. There is a lot of pressure in certain industries be it drinking or snorting coke.... and the pressure is both tangible and implied.
A lot of it came down to boredom.... on rotation... most of your mates are working and the people you know that aren't are drinking along with camps etc. where the pastime is making alcohol. I know quite a few of my ex-colleagues who have passed away prematurely and I suspect drink has been a big factor for many.
I don't think this was that different in the old day's of DH with Warner and Peaty and Co....
However specific to Baku I was invited out with some Russians for a meal... I got pressure from my big manager to go and had no intention of drinking as much as the Russians were going to drink... so I just told him I was on antibiotics... but mostly now I just don't have the lifestyle I had.
My manager was ill for 2 days....
Reducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest. 😂
😆
Reducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest.
Which has exactly nothing to do with what the poster was talking about.
I suppose it cost me more if I could vape in the office and on public transport - I may get up to over a tenner a week - my present weekly sausage roll budget.
So maybe it is a ploy by evil parasitic corporate lobbyists after all?
The bastards!!
We were sat at a table in an outdoor bar at the Fringe last week. Couple of “vapers” sat down next to us with that disgusting stuff blowing in our faces. Asked them politely to stop or move. Total refusal. Selfish sods.
No more selfish than expecting them to move.
My ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
Think of it the other way around though, about 82% of cigaret price is tax (according to some TMA bumf on google)
£5 a week is £4 of product and £1 of VAT (or maybe £3 of product and some corporation tax, business rates etc, I've no idea what the tobaco companies included in their 82%).
Anyway the point is, the vaping companies would REALLY like their products to be viewed as an aid to quitting smoking to avoid their £3/week product becoming a £15/week product, or a £10/day product if it were taxed in line with other "expensive things we wish you'd use a bit less of" by the government like petrol and beer.
Reducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest
Which has exactly nothing to do with what the poster was talking about.
Imo it has everything to do with the op. There is a gap in revenue due to cig sales/taxes dropping, so mps are looking for another cash crop. Encourage vaping get more people hooked then jack the tax. The next stage is to propose an over the counter drug that will not be supplied by nhs to combat this addiction...follow the money...
the current rules are fine for the most part and do not need to be relaxed.
There is a gap in revenue due to cig sales/taxes dropping, so mps are looking for another cash crop.
Goes against all strategic health advice. This is one where the industry has outpaced the regulations.and they are playing catch up. The long term impact of tobacco will be haunting the tax payer for years to come
Does it really come down to much more than tobacco money pulling the strings in the background?
Probably not but then does it REALLY matter for those who are still smoking anyway?
mikewsmith: Goes against all strategic health advice.
Not really, I mean it would be good to ban fast food and stuff ... a bit demolition man and salt.
Or they can try and reduce people's dependence on tobacco or the harm it does.
The long term impact of tobacco will be haunting the tax payer for years to come
Not to mention their widows, widowers, children etc. but a far healthier alternative is possible, even quite easy if people .. the last of a dying breed as it were do want to swap for vaping without creating a whole black market of smuggled or home made tobacco.
Some people are taking this discussion a bit off piste with tit for tat about whether it smells bad or not.
I thought it was meant to be about whether it is irresponsible of the government to recommend that vaping should be more aggressively marketed and encouraged given the current lack of long-term health data?
No one is disagreeing that it’s significantly less harmful than smoking, and unlike passive smoking, there are probably no health issues for “passive vapers”. Nevertheless, I think the government should be more cautious until there are more data.
Me and my mates all used to smoke. Now none of us does. We’ve all packed in using e-cigs. So my own anecdotal evidence is that it’s a massive aid to packing in smoking. We’d all tried and failed repeatedly before
And to those of you complaining about people smoking or vaping in pub beer gardens, I’d just like to remind you that we earned that right, man!
You weren’t sat in that beer garden in January when it was -6! You weren’t huddled on that picnic bench in horizontal sleet in March! You were inside, dry and warm enjoying your smoke free pint!
So to quote Morrisey....
You just haven’t earned it yet, baby!
😛
I thought it was meant to be about whether it is irresponsible of the government to recommend that vaping should be more aggressively marketed
The answer to that should always be no. A government should never encourage people to get addicted to something. Whether it is moving from one addictive thing to another doesn't make it better.
I don’t think they’re talking about handing them out in schools. They’re talking about promoting it to smokers, through the NHS, as a means to pack in, thus saving squillions of pounds in treating the damage done further down the line.
Makes perfect sense to me. We could set up support groups in pub beer gardens
I don’t think they’re talking about handing them out in schools. They’re talking about promoting it to smokers, through the NHS, as a means to pack in, thus saving squillions of pounds in treating the damage done further down the line.
And letting people use them in more places.... Seems like you like to suggest something worse then tell us it's not that bad.
Happy to promote them to smokers, nice brown packet, simple lettering, no need for flags, billboards and commercial operations all over the place. If it's a medical device then go with that.
Have you somehow missed the principles at the heart of an advanced capitalist society? 😉
if it’s legal, and so far not proved to be damaging, you can market it how you like, within the regulations.
If we start going down the road you’re advocating then before long the drug gangs in Laaaahndan will be killing each other in the street to control the Haribo supply.
A few of us have pointed out repeatedly that just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t mean the government has some moral duty to do something to stop it
A few of us have pointed out repeatedly that just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t mean the government has some moral duty to do something to stop it
The government regulates many drugs and addictive substances. For control and for financial gain, It's nothing new and uncommon. It also has restrictions on advertising on things like alcohol and gambling.
You have your nicotine addiction already, want to give that gift to more people?
Have you somehow missed the principles at the heart of an advanced capitalist society?
An advanced capitalist society regulates and protects people
No one is saying that Vaping should be banned, but i believe it should not be promoted with messages like “it’s 95% safer than smoking” because that’s not been proven, and can’t be proven without a heck of a lot more data.
The article that I read did not suggest that the government propose to promote it “only to smokers, via the NHS”. If that’s the case then fine, but I’m not sure that is their intent.
It’s not the Wild West! The EU put strict regulation on e-cigs a few years back, meaning that the shop I get my liquids from had to skip half their stock as the health warnings weren’t prominent enough
Its the main reason I voted for Brexit 😛
Strikes me that there's a big difference between "using e-cigarettes to stop smoking" and "switching from fags to e-cigarettes"
According to the department of health, e-cigarettes contribute to 20000 "quits" every year, which is great. But there's almost 3 million vapers. So it's barely even a connection, statistically. I've no doubt that swapping 1 smoker for 1 vaper is likely to be a net health benefit but we're swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers at this point.
And besides, smoking rates have been crashing for years- vaping can't be the lead factor in that, it pre-dates it.
So basically, should stopping people from smoking be an important part of the argument here? Seems like it should just be "is vaping OK or not" since the number of users is measured in millions and the number of stopped smokers is measured in thousands.
Got a link to those stats Northwind? Because ‘swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers’ sounds more than a little bit dubious, to say the least.