So what's kind of EV?
a rival for Tesla or more like Sinclair?
Tesla invested huge amounts in keeping production in their home market despite cheaper manufacturing bases being available.
Not like that.
Heavy made of plastic and expensive with average performance? A triumph of form over function.
Will you have to stop every 100 miles and empty the fluff out of a filter?
🙂
Heavy made of plastic and expensive with average performance?
Its almost like nobody can remember what vacuum cleaners were like before Dyson came along. If Dysons today are 'average' then they can at least be credited with having raised the average up by a fair chunk
It'll suck.
Bravo Sir!
Bruce +1
Heavy, over priced and over engineered.
Why do they feel they are at the forefront of engineering technology?
Dyson is a guy who has decades of experience bringing electrically-powered devices to a consumer market, most of which last longer and perform better than the competition. He's made billions.
There's a good chance that it will be an excellent vehicle.
Dyson also has its R&D centre in the UK, even though they manufacture in Asia now. They are good at patent protection, too, so I could see some unique features being included which set them apart from the competition.
Here's hoping.
Spot on. Before dyson all vacuum cleaners were rubbish, although they were also cheaper 🙂 Not sure how much influence dyson had but hand dryers are also way better now. You can actually find ones that dry hands now. They've moved things on, even if you don't use their products some of the products you do use are likely to be better because of them. Let's hope they can do the same for electric cars. They've have good motor and battery experience. They also have some decent autonomation with their robot stuffIf Dysons today are 'average' then they can at least be credited with having raised the average up by a fair chunk
I hope it will compete with tesla and either force them to push on in their space or become cheaper due to the competition.
maccruiskeen - Member
Its almost like nobody can remember what vacuum cleaners were like before Dyson came along. If Dysons today are 'average' then they can at least be credited with having raised the average up by a fair chunk
The original Dyson vacuums were marketed superbly. So well in fact, people still reproduce the notion that vacuum technology before the bagless Dyson was useless.
Vas which at the time were the super vacuum were about £150 in the mid 80s, that was a lot of cash.
They were called hoovers and they worked fine.Its almost like nobody can remember what vacuum cleaners were like before Dyson came along.
If it’s priced like the vacuums it will cost double a Tesla !
On a more seriois note I inagine he’s aiming mainstream in terms of price and spc. The problem with cars is the cost of getting the product to market is billions with all the safety tests etc.
So well in fact, people still reproduce the notion that vacuum technology before the bagless Dyson was useless.
Hoovers etc pretty much were rubbish, great suction for about 10 seconds until the bags were all blocked with dust.
Will they look like they've been assembled using whatever coloured panels were available in the scrapyard? Purple door, yellow bonnet, blue bumpers and a grey roof.
I'm not sure what planet shitvac you lot grew up on but I recall our old hoovers being excellent. Only rivaled now by Henrys certainly not Dysons which are vacuums for people with cleaners.
They were called hoovers and they worked fine.
Do you ask for a cheese and ham breville for a snack?
I inagine he’s aiming mainstream in terms of price and spc
Or maybe not...
[i]Sir James also said that his firm's car would look "radical and different", but will not be aimed at the mass market.[/i]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41399497
M(iel)eh...
I recall our old hoovers being excellent.
I suspect that you didn't actually do the hoovering. The non-replaceable bags blocked after a couple of minutes, and the ones with disposable bags cost a fortume to run (the disposable razor marketing model) The rotating brushes also jammed on lego bricks and burned out the belts regularly.
Probably highly desirable but generally shit
I’d be quite interested if Dyson also built some power stations or charging facilities to power his planned vehicles...
But I doubt he will.
Post Brexit it's going to be like this isn't it.
British Rotary Racing Series.
Everyone going round in these:
[img] 
?itok=eGDuE6SJ[/img]
Man who makes electric motors thinks he can make whole cars.
Trust me, the electric motor is the EASY bit to design and make. To make a decent passenger car is extremely difficult. People like VW spend more on door seals and infotainment systems than they do on the oily bits that make the car move! (and they've had 30 or 40 years of experience making their cars a little bit better every year)
Dyson is going to discover that it's very, very, very hard to make a profit on a car. I'm sure this will be a few (low volume) high end "super" EV's if they do get to production, which will have precisely ZERO impact on the rest of the passenger car market!
Heavy, over priced and over engineered.Why do they feel they are at the forefront of engineering technology?
Are you an engineer working in his area of manufacturing? I understand that the motors designed by Dyson, or at least his engineers, are properly cutting edge, and he’s employing a huge number of people in Malmesbury, and has just opened a new design university: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/04/james-dyson-addresses-engineering-skills-gap-with-university-launch
The Dyson Institute of Technology – which will be based at Dyson’s campus in Wiltshire – will take its first 25 students in September next year. As part of the course, students will not pay any fees, be handed a salary and work alongside Dyson engineers on upcoming products.
What that article doesn’t say is that 850+ students applied for th 25 places on the course, and 33 were actually accepted, they will receive a starting salary of £15,500/year, rising each year, and they’ll leave higher education dept-free.
Dyson must be doing something right, if he can afford to set up a facility like this, and it can only benefit the future of design development in the UK.
People like VW spend more on door seals and infotainment systems than they do on the oily bits that make the car move! (and they've had 30 or 40 years of experience making their cars a little bit better every year)
Since when has [i]any[/i] car manufacturer spent any money on infotainment systems? They’re all bought in from Sony, Alpine, or any one of a number of outside companies. Including Naim, if you’re Bentley.
And I’ll bet that the money Mazda have put into their new compression/ignition petrol engine and the new monocoque body to put it in exceeds by some margin what’s spent on door seals, which again are OEM items supplied by third-party manufacturers.
Just stick to motors and batteries and get Lotus to design the car. You know it makes sense
I’d take a guess at the guy who has built a very large and successful engineering company has put a little thought into this but I can only see it being a cock waving exercise of what he can do rather than a proper production car, Possibly so he can hold a few patents.
Well the Dude who started PayPal went onto the make EVs that make the efforts of the major car markers look shit, admittedly they cost a fortune - but Tesla 3 seems to hit the sweet spot between price, range and performance that cars like the Zoe and Leaf can’t touch.
I’m not a big fan of James Dyson, he’s got the sort of ego the leads him to think, nay KNOW that whatever is good for him and his business and personal wealth is automatically good for everyone.
It might be great, it might be shit - it’ll certainly be heavily marketed as being the best thing ever to happen to EVs, but really he’s riding Tesla’s coattails, but someone needs to offer competition to make the market work.
Irrelevant if you like Dyson cleaners or not, you have to hand it to him for doing so well from vacuum cleaners that he can even think about building a car. To be honest, it is a massive jump, and I would think it is more likely that they end up developing an electric drivetrain that they then sell to car companies. A bit like how so many cars have Peugeot diesel engines.
In the same way, I really wonder if Apple will release an electric car. More likely all the software and electronics, licensed to manufacturers.
Anyway good on him for being so successful.
There’s speculation that Apple are working on a car too..
Tesla showed you can make an impact, if not a profit in the car industry from scratch.
I welcome it tbh. The more these things become objects of desire the better the market will become. Honda, Toyota &co can put the hard graft in to make normal cars; Elon and James can stimulate demand.
Dyson are recruiting so thats a good thing But, they don't have a great rep in terms of employee satisfaction.
Based on the research that MrsDT's did anyway.
CountZero
Since when has any car manufacturer spent any money on infotainment systems?
I guess you've not been into an OEM in the last 15 years then??
In the last month in particular it seems the number of companies announcing an electric car - either with a tiny teaser image of a headlight or some swoopy lines on a black background, or at most a concept prototype that won't look anything like the real thing (if the real thing ever comes, of course) - has been enormous. EVERYBODY is doing it. I'd be surprised if Dyson weren't, really. Although I won't be holding my breath for anything much to really come of it. Half of these announcements I would guess will result in a little run of very niche cars for enthusiasts then will quietly be forgotten about.
And I speak as someone with an EV sat on the drive who is very keen on the whole idea.
Will Sinclair C5 ever be updated ..?
Dyson helicopters from home to work, will that be leccy powered too?
I've seen pictures of their E-Bike
I'm oouut
There’s speculation that Apple are working on a car too..
I think that was named project Titan and has been shelved in favour of just working on the ‘smart’ aspects of autonomous vehicles rather than a whole car.
Now dyson motors, Lotus chassis and Apple smarts would make an interesting collaboration.
Tesla showed you can make an impact, if not a profit in the car industry from scratch.
Tesla is now a more valuable company than BMW
For most automakers, building a new model involves looking back on years of experience developing engines, tweaking chassis and perfecting drivetrains -- but what does it cost to develop an entirely new range of cars from scratch?That’s a question we’ve all wondered for some time. According to Nissan/Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn, the answer is a lot.
$5.6 billion.
Dyson intends to spend £2 billion. On his first car. Without a bank of automotive experience to call on.
I admire his ambition.
Mefty - value versus profit. Discuss
Will Sinclair C5 ever be updated ..
I'd prefer a Hase trike
[img] 
[/img]
[s]Or[/s] and a Tesla 100D 😉
Tesla is now a more valuable company than BMW
Are you sure about that?
BMW is worth about €48bn
Tesla is worth about $4.7bn despite being given an €8bn grant from the US Gov and has never made a penny in profit.
Tesla sold 84k cars last year, which is remarkable.
BMW sold 2.5m cars.
Tesla might be the future, but in the global car stakes they’re tiny at the moment. Mercedes own 10% of them, Toyota about the same.
Ultimately I think they’ll be the artictect of their own destruction, even with the 3 coming out and making them more mainstream, as soon as the VW, Toyota and Fords of the world turn their massive R&D machines towards EVs they’re in deep, deep trouble.
Dyson intends to spend £2 billion. On his first car. Without a bank of automotive experience to call on
They've got a bit of experience there 😉 Over the past year or so they've employed Aston Martin's product development director & head of purchasing + Tesla's head of communications, so it's been obvious for a while really that a car was on it's way.
Mainstream manufacturers will be trying to do what Tesla didn't try - make a cheap EV.
Tesla market cap based on NASDAQ close USD 57.62 billion, BMW market cap USD 55.72, so just higher. Whether that valuation makes sense is another matter.
value versus profit
Both useful to know, but focus on cash generation.
Tesla invested huge amounts in keeping production in their home market despite cheaper manufacturing bases being available.
What a load of tosh. I'd be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us. He batteries come from all over the place but provided by Panasonic and the rest come from multiple car parts bins. The quality of tesla cars isn't great.
As soon as the big boys get into EVs tesla will be swallowed up.
The big boys are being quiet until they've offloaded all the IC stuff then they'll be teling us how much better electric is.
Upstarts have nothing to lose so theres an opportunity whilst the existing players are still in the old tech.
Dyson is just setting his stall out, chances are he has little to offer.
I think there is a market shake up due though, anyone fancy a Sony hatchback?
Peaks in the car market are March/April and August/September.
I imagine 2018 is going to be an interesting year.
wobbliscott - Member
Tesla invested huge amounts in keeping production in their home market despite cheaper manufacturing bases being available.
What a load of tosh. I'd be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us. He batteries come from all over the place but provided by Panasonic and the rest come from multiple car parts bins. The quality of tesla cars isn't great.
Proof?
Had an interview with them to work on factory design, based in San Fran, Battery factory in Reno
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Factory#Facilities
The Tesla Gigafactory 1 is an operational lithium-ion battery factory under construction, primarily for Tesla Inc., at the Tahoe Reno Industrial Center (TRIC) in Storey County (near the Community of Clark, Nevada, US).[3][4][5]The factory started limited production of Powerwalls and Powerpacks in the first quarter of 2016[6][2] using battery cells produced elsewhere, and began mass production of cells in January 2017.[7] Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval estimated that Nevada would enjoy $100 billion in economic benefit over two decades from the construction and operation of this factory.[8] The grand opening event was held on July 29, 2016.[9]
Tesla began to refer to the SolarCity Gigafactory at Buffalo, New York, in February 2017, as Gigafactory 2. The Europe Gigafactory will be named either Gigafactory 3, 4, or 5 and the location will be announced in 2017.[10][11] Gigafactory 1, in Nevada, is aligned on true north, which was done so that the equipment can be mapped by GPS and solar panels on the roof can be accurately aligned. Also the factory has been designed to be entirely energy self-reliant. Tesla intends to power the structure through a combination of on site solar, wind and geo-thermal sources.[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1
https://www.tesla.com/blog/panasonic-and-tesla-sign-agreement-gigafactory
Very US based at the moment
They make the cars in the US - that is production in the US, components may not all come from the US but the Value add assembly does.
Doesn't sound like the best place to work as it's still very start up mentaility for it's size.
Long term their plans were to roll out production to different markets based on the desings/plans/experience of the US factory model. They are planning huge expansion in the US at this point too.
Reminds me must get back in touch with them to see whats going on for 2018 visas.
IIRC When Tesla started up, Musk never intended to get seriously into the business of making cars. The (early) technology was open source I believe and he was hoping that the other manufacturers would take over.
It would certainly make a lot more sense to have one single interface and charging system for all elecric cars than competing standards...
As I was saying at the FPSA meeting on charging of and flexibility from EVs on Monday, Beanum.
Much of the existing charging infrastructure is probably going to prove to be a white elephant.
With the release of a Dyson, I can see the EV market picking up well 😆
Well if we must...
A car with different attachments for different surfaces?
Fingers crossed it comes off but it's going to take some clever engineering to get the weight down with people's expectations of what "quality" looks like these days. 1/2 a tonne of "soft touch plastic" in a shell that's 50% bigger than it was 30 years ago is not where we should be.
I'm not sure I really like it for various reasons but I hope the Dyson takes some inspiration from the [url=www.riversimple.com]Riversimple Rasa[/url] as it's got a lot of great things about it.
+1 on the "get Lotus to design it" front 😀
There’s speculation that Apple are working on a car too..
I think Uncle Steve probably was.
I'm not so sure that TC's Apple are. I think they've cowarded out and are now, as said above, telling themselves they are a 'software and electronics company'.
🙁
The apple car, perfect except you have the wrong kind of roads etc. Or made entirely with good old imperial parts 🙂
If dyson can make a decent battery & drive train then it's a very useful platform for others to work with.
With the release of a Dyson, I can see the EV market picking up well
What if the market dosen't pick up? Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust 😕
Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust
<chuckle>
Although, a C5 with today's battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn't it?
Maybe just a bit bigger and with a roof to stay dry. I'd rather have something like that than a Tesla.
😆Will the Dyson cars just sit around gathering dust
[img] 
[/img]
It will be ....
a car
So not really solving the problems of modern urban transport but adding to them.
Although, a C5 with today's battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn't it?Maybe just a bit bigger and with a roof to stay dry.
What, like this?
[img] 
[/img]
It could have maybe a 60 mile range, do maybe 30mph or there could be a 50mph version, and it could maybe be made by Renault and be called a Twizy? And maybe make it available since 2012?
Although, a C5 with today's battery & motor tech could be quite an awesome thing couldn't it?
Aye,it would be nice to see more development in electric assisted HPVs,like the Burrows Windcheetah or [url= 
]something like this[/url]
It could have maybe a 60 mile range, do maybe 30mph or there could be a 50mph version, and it could maybe be made by Renault and be called a Twizy? And maybe make it available since 2012?
Do you speak like that in real life?
Anyway, yeah, I was completely unaware of the Twizy! Probably because I stopped buying 'Car' Magazine when Steve Cropley stopped editing it. I've never seen one on the road, I think.
Performance doesn't really seem as good as I would have expected, let's see what Dyson can come up with.
whitestone - MemberIt will be ....
a car
So not really solving the problems of modern urban transport but adding to them.
This
+1 on the "get Lotus to design it" front
Said Tesla a few years ago maybe?
Anyway, yeah, I was completely unaware of the Twizy! Probably because I stopped buying 'Car' Magazine when Steve Cropley stopped editing it. I've never seen one on the road, I think.
Actually I didn't see one in a car mag, I saw one on the road in London, noticed it had a Renault badge and had to google it. Seen a few since. They look proper good and seem to cost about as much as a motorbike or not a whole lot more than a top-end e-bike. If I was forced into a car commute I'd be seriously interested.
I like the twizy, but then I like small engined (EV or Petrol) 2 seater city cars.
There must be someone out there that’s chipped one already..
Off to Google I go..
Boom!
(It’ll never make production)
[img] 
[/img]
The Twizy Renault Sport F1’s 97bhp power output is nearly six times bigger than the regular EV’s, thanks to the bolting on of the KERS system from Renault-powered F1 cars, including Sebastian Vettel’s Red Bull. It’s been adapted for the ever-so-subtly different Twizy, of course, but its performance gains are tremendous.
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG_jwOlkWikhbwqSF3LwTobe3N6JSkB7pVtnMNajYr8ZO03iSZrw [/img]
Early release shots,from Dyson (Taiwan) Inc.
What a load of tosh. I'd be surprised if any part of a tesla is manufactured in the us.
The new Model 3 is 50% from the US and Canada, 25% from Mexico and the rest from elsewhere. This allows it to be sold without import taxes in NAFTA countries, so they have to release the information.
Will it have a Ludicrous button ??
A large proportion of the original Tesla roadster was made in the uk, so maybe production is possible in the uk?
T1000 - because it was a Lotus with batteries and an electric motor?
Didn’t it burn on Top Gear? I may have imagined that.
It got burned on TopGear but not in the way you meant I think.
No not Top Gear then
Tesla says 40% of its Roadsters may catch fire
https://m.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/07/tesla_roadster_recall/
This concerning. Special putting fire out instructions.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/firstresponders