We were planning the same trip with kids from Edinburgh, but as suggested above I found Edi - Basel flights for the wife and kids for £52 all in, so it was a bit of a no brainer. I'll leave a couple of days early and scoop them up in Basel before a final 3.5 hours across Switzerland to the lakes. It will actually save us cash as they can easy spend £50 in a single service station stop!
I'm planning to go through Belgium/Lux/Germany to avoid the peage tolls.
I generally drive to France alone and pick up the wife, kids, kids friends etc at various Ryanair destination airports in France. It generally works out about the same in money terms as you spend far less when on the road and save the ferry passenger costs.
Also you get the car to yourself, can control the tunes at any volume you like, stop when you want and pull the bike out out and go for a cheeky ride.
I'm doing it the first weekend in August. I prefer to get the 6:30am ferry and pootle down to Mulhouse and stay overnight there, but i couldn't get in the Dover Premiere Inn this time so it's a 12:00 ferry. Push on the next day through Basel and St Gothard tunnel. But I'm heading to Lake Maggorie.
For the return I stop at Reims, about a 2.5hr drive to the port from there.
its not about the time, in a rhd car it’s about the stopping, waking up your passenger to pay and the kids waking up because the cars stopped and the window is open or if solo, clambering across the car to pay. It’s a ball ache. Get a tag.
I've done long journeys through France with and without the tag. I reckon it's a very minor benefit at most. I can see the point if you're travelling solo but the OP will be with his family.
I’ve done long journeys through France with and without the tag. I reckon it’s a very minor benefit at most.
It's hardly a disadvantage though is it? I've had one of the machines eat my card too, which left me trying to explain this to the man on the crackly intercom, with French which is certainly far from perfect. That was in a LHD hire car too, wouldn't fancy repeating that in a RHD car.
having said that, I’ve made up an hour on the BiL between Borg St Moritz and Leon just by not needing to stop at the tolls when it was busy…
That's some mangling of the language there! 😆 Bourg-Saint-Maurice and Lyon?
We've done the trip to Salo in Garda each year for about 4 years with the kids Lake Annecy for a few years before that. As mentioned DVD screens and DVD supply is useful. As are tablets, phones, Spotify etc. Recommend European breakdown cover also. We had to use it last year for the first time. We stop over in Novatel outskirts of Dijon over night on the way there and back. Account for delays on the approach to Mt Blanc tunnel (worse on weekend) and tolls coming off the motor way on the road approaching the lake especially if its a Friday afternoon / evening. Can also be busy around Milan, Bergamo and towards Brescia. Cool bag with drinks and a big snack bag in the front is recommended.
We tried going through Switzerland one year but the motorways aren't as good and the St Gotthard tunnel wasn't the best, long delays. Watch when going past Geneva on the way home. We've ended up going into Switzerland following the satnav, haven't paid the tax and spent the journey trying to avoid being stopped by the Swiss police. A bit like the Great Escape. Plenty of places (services and parking areas) to stop on French motorways. Not such good motorway services and stopping points in Italy. Luckily the kids don't get car sick so not had deal with this. Kids don't sleep, factor in stops regularly for stretch legs and kids to run around. We're doing it again in august this year so not been put off. Great scenery travelling through the Alps. Don't forget the Hivis vest breathalyser, spare bulbs etc. required for European travel.
Erm, yes, but you got what I meant Njee! only slightly embarrassing...
Bookmarked
there might be puking, especially if the kids aren’t used to sleeping in the car and then eating breakfast.
Also some big sealable food bags for puking in. Get ones that are suitable for holding soup.
Also have a wide necked empty drinks bottle ( Oasis or some such ) for emergency motorway pee incidents.
……and more baby wipes. You can never have too many baby wipes.
Perchy - remind me never to get a lift in your car 🙂
We did the same journey to Garda a few years back. In the days before my car had aircon.
I rigged up a video player in the back and we drove the 1st day until I wanted to stop. We stopped at Combeaufontaine and got a room. It was lovely.
When we used to drive to Spain and the Alps the nippers always loved driving through the night. As Mrs BigJohn was OK with that too, we shared the driving/napping and it worked brilliantly. Cooler and no traffic.
The only issue we had was that in France the signs to Basel say Bale. Before satnav that confused us mightily.
Why are people taking about tolls in France and the Mount Blanc tunnel?
Avoid French tolls and the rip off tunnel by going via Belgium-Luxemburg - Stuttgart - Garmisch... Ignore buying the Austrian Vignette and tootle along the road to Reschen, roll through Vinschgau and pick up the Autostrada at Meran. Then just an hour or two to Rovere to and Riva. That'll cost you about 8€ in tolls.
Google suggests Calais to Riva avoiding all tolls is 13h40m as opposed to 12h9m with tolls via France. Km wise there is nothing in it.
If you get onto the Autobahn at night there'll be little traffic and you can easily make up time whilst seeing how fast your car goes.
The drive through Austria /Tirol is very picturesque.
This avoids the French tolls and the Swiss Vignette and a lot of Italian autostrada.... €€€€
Perchy – remind me never to get a lift in your car
That’s just me. The kids are even worse. 😉
Buy a comprehensive French road atlas. If the roads are bad you can plan an alternative route.
Around 2008 we stayed in the Ardeche and returned to my in laws house in Burgundy on the first Saturday in August. We drove along smaller roads, where we had frequent views of the Autoroute. The traffic jams were 10s of miles long.
As stated be wary of travelling on Saturdays in August. Over the years we have found that if you take smaller roads it's a longer but far more pleasant trip. You could plan a few stops on the way
We've done Yorkshire to Ancona the last couple of summers with 3 kids and no probs at all (except running out of diesel on the run into Calais). As a guide, we normally leave Friday afternoon after school, through the tunnel around 11pm, and I can get to Reims before stopping at about 2.30am Sat. We've a camper so just bed down in the motorway services. The next day is a full day driving, but we can then do the rest of France, straight through Switzerland and Italy, into Ancona late Saturday night ready for our ferry to Greece Sunday lunchtime.
First tip, use your tesco vouchers for the tunnel.
Toll Tags. We use a APRR tag, it's the same as the sanef tag you can order over here, but it works out cheaper and they deliver to UK, Google translate the website. It costs €3 per month that you use it over the actual toll cost, and they bill your credit card so you won't actually need to pay your tolls until September. We wouldn't do France without one now, It's just so easy. Straight through at 30, no queuing, no looking for euros, no getting out/leaning over/waking the wife. It's a no-brainer.
Use Via Michelin to work out your toll costs, but remember it'll include the £40 for your Swiss vignette which you'll only need once. Buy that at the border, but have the 50 francs for it, their exchange rate at the border is criminal.
Italy comes as a shock after how easy and quiet the French and Swiss systems are. The Milan ring road is the worst, the drivers to improve the further away from there that you get, but they love their horns, tailgating and undertaking. Flashing your lights means get out of my way, they don't flash to let people pull out.
Lots of dvds and treats for the kids. Plenty of snacks, lots of rest stops (most services have big picnic areas and playgrounds).
I wouldn't stop in Basel, it's very industrial (at least the bit near the motorway). We stopped in Strasbourg on the way back last year and it was nice, there's a massive park down by the river with a footbridge across into Germany. The kids loved walking to Germany before breakfast.
Most of all, enjoy yourself, and stop before you get tired
If you have time a wander around le parc de l'orangerie in Strasbourg would kill an hour or so. BUT it's a bit of a diversion into the city from the nearest motorway type roads if memory serves me right.
In terms of journey length with that age of child we have done 400+ mile each way journies in both the last two years with ours. Yours is longer and if I were doing it I might be tempted to split over two days of that was an option.
First time they didn't have any electronics and played "death wish airlines" for a large chunk of the day and sang songs.
Last year we had dvd players in the car which kept them quiet when they weren't fighting over which film to watch. 🙄
Imst Austria to Carlisle in a day. About 1100mls, Google it! 2 X kids, me and a mate and my Mercedes Vito camper. Set off at 10am. Got off the ferry at about 11pm and decided to blast home. Got back about 5am.
Wouldnt recommend it tbh. Next year it's just me and my daughter so we will stop a couple of hours into France and sleep over. Same on way back.
Multiple trips down through France on the toll roads. At a conservative estimate I've racked up 25,000 miles on those roads.
In all that time I've never once encountered road works, traffic jams or road rage on those toll roads.
For that reason alone, it's worth the money
Michelin planner says 150E tolls each way to Pietra Ligure which is a bit of a git. I'm not missing any tricks here am I? Will be going via Dijon both ways
I'd agree with SANEF being pointless - just make sure you have a CC that doesn't charge transaction fees abroad, and use that. I've never queued for more than a minute, and they aren't so common that it really hits your average speed anyway.
Don't have aircon in the van, it's not as big a problem as I expected to be honest - do have all round screens though if I have to leave it in the sun.
DVD players are win. Many also take USB sticks, you can get a lot of movies on 128Gb
150€ sounds way more likely - it was 50 ish to the Vendee last year, and I avoided tolls for the last stretch.
Funnily enough have just ordered a Sanef card - https://www.saneftolling.co.uk/
Worth it or not? Not sure but CC will be tucked away and having a thing on the windscreen that does it all for me seems worth the setup + annual maintenance. Website is worth a look as they have a map section giving you fuel and toll costs (and Calais - Genoa turns out to cost more in tolls than fuel if fuel is E1.3/l)
We drove out and back to the last EWS in Austria using the toll roads in Northern France. The price of fuel has gone up quite a bit since last Autumns trip. Supermarket cost €1.41/ litre toll roads €1.66/ litre, Germany was €1.45 and Austria €1.27 all for diesel.
We have the card, makes a lot of sense if you are driving through the night or when everyone else is asleep.
Remember to add in the costs of some of the Alps tunnels if you are using them and also get the return ticket if applicable
I’ve never queued for more than a minute
You've been lucky then, I've hit some stonking queues over the years, and driven past some others as I had the Sanef beeper
Update to the OP - I've just got an email from Sanef saying if I recommend someone both of us get E5 off the bill. I'm not recommending anything to anyone but if you want a Sanef thing at E5 off I can forward the link to you
You’ve been lucky then, I’ve hit some stonking queues over the years, and driven past some others as I had the Sanef beeper
It was probably me you were queueing behind, my S Max packed up at a booth a few years back 😀
I wouldn't mind that BBSB if it works for anyone. Dunno if it works with the Eurotunnel discount but worth a try
PM'ed you the link but then didn't see why it had to be private - so here's the email from Sanef
<span style="font-size: small;">Recommend a friend to Sanef Tolling and you will each receive €5 off your fees.*
We hope that you are completely satisfied with your toll tag service provided by Sanef Tolling and are enjoying the convenience of queue free travel on the European motorways. If you recommend a friend to our service, you will each receive €5 off your fees. To claim your discount, please forward this email or send the link below to your friends and ask them to use it when signing up.
* The discount can only be applied against application fees and monthly active service fees and not against tolls, annual fees or other charges. Any discounts not applied will be carried over to the next invoice.
https://www.saneftolling.co.uk/subscription?ref=RF-20180710-5EDF3A1B
</span>
UPDATE
Made it. Ended up setting off on the Friday afternoon and Mrs-g couldn't get the day off work, got to Calais around 6:30, then drove to Karlsruhe via Belgium and Luxembourg and stopped over night. Saturday the Sat Nav said to avoid going through Switzerland and to go via Austria instead so we did. It took longer than expected and was vertigo inducing in places but was fine.
The return journey we started on a Friday lunchtimes, drove from Garda to Strasbourg via Switzerland, spent some time in Strasbourg Saturday before driving to Lille, again through Lux and Belgium, then Sunday an easy drive to Calais then home.
We didn't get any SANEF passes and didn't have to queue more than 4 cars for any tolls, didn't really see any traffic aside from a 20 minute stop in Switzerland which was due to traffic lights holding us before a tunnel, don't think I saw a speed camera on the whole journey either. Round trip was 1800 miles.
Lessons learned, I will not be doing it like this again. Driving for 8 - 10 hours one day is fine, but having to get back in the car the following day to drive another few hundred Ks is no fun at all. Next time I will plan the trip to be 5-6 hour stints, separated by a night or two in a town/beach/theme park. Also, will buy a car better suited to European motorway driving than my old 1.2 litre Renault Clio
Also, will buy a car better suited to European motorway driving than my old 1.2 litre Renault Clio
LOL what made you think that was a good idea ?
We've just returned from a week near Orvieto in Italy. 4 days to get there, stopping in Reims, Lucerne and Parma. the 5 days back, stopping in Turin, Morzine and Laon (northern France). We've always driven to holidays in europe, and my top tip is....don't rush. I know that's just not possible for some, but if you can, shorten the journeys. Stay somewhere out of the ordinary. Choose interesting routes.
All that said...get a motorway Tag, and iPads for each child and a Kingston MobileLite wifi thingy. And Italian drivers, Jesus, they certainly concentrate the mind. And yes, we did drive over that bridge in Genoa.
Strasbourg is lovely, but quite big. Try Colmar.
Edit: next time.
Strasbourg is lovely, but quite big. Try Colmar.
You know when someone reads the OP and replies... yeah that.
I can't believe you did it in a 1.2 litre Clio, that sounds horrific. I'd have hired something else to put the miles on!
I'm doing Talamone, Tuscany in 2 days shortly... At least I won't have to go over 'that bridge', but we do have a SANEF tag and a modern large automatic RWD German estate car.
You know when someone reads the OP and replies… yeah that.
A positive contribution, nonetheless.
+1 for Colmar for lunch.
I’m gobsmacked you did that in a Clio - fair play!
(before the car police turn up, I know it’s possible and a clip will drive around the earth many times but it’s soooo much more comfortable in something like a Mondeo for exaple!)
