In an autotest mini special I'll say definitely, yes. In a rally car in a forest most probably yes. Against the BTCC driver on a circuit, no. Against the police drivers of my day the answer was, yes.
Again it's irrelevant, my point is that too many police officers drive beyond their ability on public roads and their accident rate confirms my assertion. Too many think they are heros with special powers racing around saving the world when in fact most of their racing around is futile and the world would be a safer place if they slowed down.
Bollox edukator. evidence?
there are a very few police pursuit / advanced / level 3 drivers and thier accident rate is good.
Anyone who knows them and knows how they ride and drive knows how good they are.
Someone who did a bit of amateur motorsport a long time ago is simply not in the same class.
do you actually know anything about advanced driving / pursuit driving?
You don't seem to have grasped it yet do you TJ. I only contribute to threads where I have enough experience to make a useful contribution. Today that's been this thread, one about bivvying in France where I've lived and bivvied since 1987, one about cover versions (contributing a cover version), one about anecdotic experience of Googling friends (contributing an anecdote) and I think that's it.
On previous occcasions you've accused me of knowing nothing about legal systems despite the fact court work was a part of my job in both the UK and France. You've been among those that have contested my knowledge of atmospheric pollution when I ran Welsh Water's project in the 80s and my name was the first on the first paper published (when I was rallying ironically enough, and yes I did appreciate the irony at the time).
If you too stuck to posting on threads on subjects in which you have some depth of knowledge rather than taking sides from a position of ignorance then STW would be a better place, TJ. Like the sterotypical copper, Nonsense, you unwisely make the assumption your adversary is thick and poorly informed.
Yeah, and bivy only has one v.
And now you've lost it and started getting insulting, TJ. "Bollox" is calling me a liar. You're out of your depth and throwing your weight around, typical. You just have to get involved in every debate and when can't produce a reasoned argument you start your bullying. Good night, TJ, sleep well.
Believe me there are lots of police drivers trying to get into the MSA hall of fame but don't have the ability. I'm already there, amateur or not.
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Can somebody save me some time and let me know whether there's anything worth reading in this TF/edu argument?
There isn't.
Ok educator
On the UK legal sytem I proved you wrong - and you were clearly out of your depth.
On this one you are spouting with little knowledges and again clearly out of your depth
1) when did you train police advanced drivers?
2) what is your experience of police advanced driving
3) what is you evidence for your assertion that advanced drivers crash a lot?
The fact that you could compete with cops in a minor form of amateur motorsport many years ago does not mean you know anything about police advanced driving training now - the very fact you claim a stunt driver trains them is laughable.
Re police driving standards. Some interesting comments and I'm inclined to agree with some of what Edukator says. Collision stats in many forces are unacceptably high. A reflection in less time and effort spent training standard response drivers mostly. Comes back to attitude again mostly, whatever the shout it's always better to arrive a few seconds later than not at all.
The liver run is in many ways a classic example. Can't remember which section it is but front seat passenger loses it at one point (on the M25?) and waves his fist out of the window at a lorry driver who held them up. Unprofessional and unacceptable.
Again TJ what does the driver you cite as a great example say 7 minutes and 40 seconds into your video?
As you're so keen on evidence, we'll call it exhibit A.
Again TJ what does the driver you cite as a great example say 7 minutes and 40 seconds into your video?
I'll save you the bother he says [i]"if a pedestrian had come out between the traffic I don't know that I could have avoided them"[/i].
Both cars have lights and sirens going and they are on a genuine emergency delivering a liver for transplant.
It's a balance of risks. Would you honestly rather they took their time, stuck to the Highway Code and let someone die, just on the off chance that the world's doziest pedestrian steps in front of them?
It's all relative... He's weighing up the very small chance that someone steps out, against the far more certain consequences of what will happen if they don't make the drop.
The question is, who in this thread is qualified to say exactly what risks are acceptable and what aren't... Folk are holding up these accident stats as if they're meaningful, but what they lack is any indication of the alternatives. Do you think if the police slowed down at all times there'd be no consequences?
And there lies one of the problems facing the emergency services - more often than not you simply don't know which calls are a matter of life and death.Any casual observer can see why, too many drive too fast on missions that simply aren't life or death.
I responded to 10 calls today and I can honestly say that not one was immediately life threatening. BUT.....to give two examples - was the fitting baby simply too hot or was it due to meningitis? Was the 90 year old gasping for breath suffering from a chest infection or about to go into cardiac arrest? Same with the Police. How are they to know that an ongoing fight will not involve knives and end with a fatal stabbing.
There is no way of knowing until you get there but the potential consequences of a delay are huge. Can you imagine the headlines if an ambulance took 10 minutes to drive 6 miles and a child died?
I drive fairly quickly but I can honestly say, in my judgement, I never take a risk, not even a calculated one (and yes, I am very aware of the dangers inherent in high speed driving) as the penalties if found guilty of causing an accident are likely to be much higher when you have authority to exceed the speed limit and other traffic regulations. Very few have the 'gung-ho' attitude you appear to be alluding to and the stress levels involved are high.
The fact that you could compete with cops in a minor form of amateur motorsport many years ago does not mean you know anything about police advanced driving training now - the very fact you claim a stunt driver trains them is laughable.
I can see police driver training from work. spend all day doing handbrake turns , u turns , slides round cones etc..some would claim this is stunt driving...i like to think they are just learning how to handle a car at its limits...better to learn to control a slide on a airfield than on a road i would of thought.
Oh and in 15 yrs of very amateur motorsport any fellow competitors that have been police drivers have been average at best.
I only contribute to threads where I have enough experience to make a useful contribution.
Presumably you differentiate between 'contribute' and 'troll' then?
I passed on my 3rd attempt. The first time i had too many minors and the scond time i pulled out on a duel carriageway in front of a lorry but it's not as bad as it sounds! They say hesitation is the biggest cause of crashes and i just didn't hesitate. He was a good 200 yards away so i floored it but the examiner said that he had to break which was a load of balls!
oh and if you need insurance for a modified then check these out, they actually think about the risk instead of just thinking of a number and sticking 000's behind it. http://www.acorninsure.co.uk/car-insurance/modified-car-insurance/