10 to 2 and a death grip on the wheel makes it hard to change gears, or do anything else whilst cornering, shirley ?
I tend to drive a bit like I have a bus steering wheel, but that's because I have a disability to my hand and can't hold the wheel properly in my right hand anyway, it's more of a claw grip.
I suspect I would be in trouble if I had to resit !!
P.S I should add before anyone gets all sanctimonious, I have a totally clean licence and have never made an insurance claim, in spite of gimp hand, it all works just fine. Honest. Can't carry a kettle of water but can ride a motorbike and drive a car.
10 to 2 and shuffling doesn't mean a death grip. It does mean not getting crossed up, having one hand or the other free at regualar intervals and being able to apply maximum leverage all the time. I do realise it's less of an issue on a power steered car but still an efficient, safe technique. Power steering has brought us "quick" higher geared steering racks so there's less reason than ever to twirl.
Difficult to do one handed.
Fair point if you have one hand 🙂
I was taught (2007-08) that either was an acceptable method as long as you didn't cruise for any great distance with the clutch down.
Fair enough - they've clearly gained a bit of sense on this issue. I learnt before they brought in the suggestion not to move down the gears (before most of those complaining were born), but I understand at one point it was the only approved method.
The UK driving test has got measurably more difficult
In what way exactly apart from the separate theory and hazard perception tests?
Passed 1st time, 4 months after my 17th birthday.
I rock.
What's wrong with feeding the wheel?
Might bite your hand off?
I passed ~11 years ago now; not long after the test was increased in length and the theory came in, I don't think I could pass it again tomorrow (is it even longer now?), I don't drive much like I did on test now, I have too many "Bad habbits" if I'm honest but I do use my mirrors, check blind spots and use my bastard indicators which many people seem to be pathalogically averse to...
Is motorway driving "Easier"? - Arguably once you're comfortable driving at any sort of speed, I can see why it's daunting for New drivers, I know the motorway scares the shit out of my Missus (Currently Learning to drive)...
If your learning to pass a driving test the only opinions that you should really listen to are the examiner and your instructor, don't trust the thought or opinions offered by friends, family or STWers who most likely have some pretty bad habbits and a bit of a "Know it all" attitude to driving
-----------------------------------------------------
Personnally I say abolish driving tests and everyone should drive a car like they would ride a bike:
-Jump Reds
-Mount the pavement at random
-Bang on the roof of anyones car who gets a bit too close
-Race strangers.
-Disconnect your brakes and clutch and stay stuck in one, slightly too high, gear, whilest wearing hippster girls jeans and getting in everyones way (But looking "Bang on trend")...
-Drive home drunk along the pavement late at night with a plastic bag full of tennants attached to one side of the steering wheel...
-Do massive Wheelies/Skid/Endos whenever possible.
-Only ever drive anywhere when wearing suitable (expensive) clothing and a hydration pack, even if your just poping down the shops.
All of the above as applicable...
My brother passed first time after three lessons about 2 weeks after his birthday.
Still - he had practiced loads beforehand by creeping out in the night and driving our dad's car all the time. Well he did until he crashed it into a lap post 🙂
The people that took multiple attempts aren't speaking up i suspect...
Took me three. Nerves were my biggest enemy.
First test, I simply wasn't ready. The instructor was retiring and wanted rid of all his students.
Second, now with a different instructor, drove ok but failed due to being in the wrong lane (turning right off a dual carriageway, there was a small 'right turn' waiting area and I just didn't register what it was) - anything viewed as potentially dangerous is an automatic fail.
Third time, I did something silly right at the start (stalled or something, can't remember), thought "well, that's another one buggered," relaxed totally cos I was going through the motions rather than "being tested," and passed.
My aforementioned friend does the 10 to 2 and a death grip, and trust me it doesn't work, hence excursions onto the wrong side of the road, and rather jerky driving while he waits for a safe bit of road to change down. I've given up saying anything, I could have walked or got the bus, but I do reserve the right to flinch from time to time.
Just don't bother with a test. Or tax/insurance - all you'll get is a 9 month ban if you get caught.
😆
BTW,
I'd say that motorway driving is in no way easier than driving on a dual carriageway.
Unless OFC your idea of "motorway driving" is to enter the motorway at a steady 40mph like Moses on the banks of the Red Sea, carve immediately across the first lane regardless of traffic conditions in order to take your rightful place in the middle lane, then sit there at 69.5mph looking three feet in front of you until it's time to come off again. Then, sure, motorway driving is a piece of piss compared to those pesky complicated dual carriageways where you might have to do something occasionally.
In what way exactly apart from the separate theory and hazard perception tests?
Well I think those add a fair bit to start with. As I understand it you used to just get a few random questions from the examiner during the test, like "What does that sign mean?"
These days you have 50 multiple choice questions to answer in under and hour and you need to get 43 right, then you have 14 hazard perception clips to watch.
Then they still ask you questions during the test, including the Show Me/Tell Me stuff before the test like [i]"Show me how you would check that the power assisted steering is working before starting a journey."[/i] (who actually checks this on a regular basis?)
Plus you have to do reverse parking, which by the sounds of it some STWers won't have had to do (introduced 1991).
And the "independent driving" bit, which [url= http://www.****/news/article-1283667/New-driving-test-ask-learners-memorise-route-10-minute-trip-instruction-examiner.html?ITO=1708 ]the Daily Mail says is hard[/url], so it must be true 😉
My aforementioned friend does the 10 to 2 and a death grip, and trust me it doesn't work
So your friend is a rubbish driver. I'd have a guess that your friend would be just as rubbish if crossing hands.
Sorry I took 3 goes...
Drove faster on lessons and was told off for doing so by instuctor, got marked down on tests for going slow/not making proper progress! (I thought I'd get in trouble if I even approached the speed limit), I don't think the examiners appreciated the nerves aspect of it, apparently I "lacked confidence" not an issue anymore, perhaps to my own detriment...
Also got marked down for not using mirrors enough, but again I think this was because I didn't make a big song and dance out of turning my head, my instructor had a useful game to get you into using the mirrors where he would randomly ask you to tell him what was behind without looking... did the job...
Well I think those add a fair bit to start with.
Well yes, but people seem to manage to pass those bits, then fail the main test - and use the excuse that the test has got harder.
Then they still ask you questions during the test, including the Show Me/Tell Me stuff before the test
So how many people here have failed due to that bit, rather than the bits which us dinosaurs also had to do?
I thought I'd done reverse parking, but clearly not - my memory's obviously going. Yes a difficult skill, but again it doesn't sound like what people are failing on. I'd also argue that it's not the sort of thing you'd accuse somebody of being a bad driver for if they weren't very good at it ("blonde" maybe 😉 )
[url= http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_187179.htm ]Here's an official sample theory test if any of the dinosaurs fancy a go. Should only take you ten minutes or so. (Needs Flash)[/url]
aracer: it would be interesting to compare the pass rates for different years, but I can't find anything definitive online.
So instead I'll [i]reductio ad absurdum[/i] and say it is definitely harder now than it was prior to 1935 when the compulsory test was introduced. 😉
Apparently it's now got parallel parking in it, which it didn't before, ergo it's harder.
What is "crossing hands" btw ? I don't really understand - I learnt to drive in NZ and that term wasn't used. I don't see how you could literally "cross hands" ?
I am driving tonite so I shall test out a few things. Stay off the M90 folks !!
Here's an official sample theory test if any of the dinosaurs fancy a go. Should only take you ten minutes or so. (Needs Flash)
Just rattled through this, got 49/50. I got #30 (warning triangle distance) wrong. It was a guess, no idea.
What is "crossing hands" btw ? I don't really understand - I learnt to drive in NZ and that term wasn't used. I don't see how you could literally "cross hands" ?
Turning the wheel, eg, to the left by letting go with your left hand and turning with your right, then reaching over the right with your left to grab the wheel further round and carry on turning.
Just rattled through this, got 49/50. I got #30 (warning triangle distance) wrong. It was a guess, no idea.
same here. Also got the one about hazards lights wrong. 😳
I've done similar tests before. The gotchas for people who've been driving a while are things like the warning triangle question, caravan questions, and newer terminology like 'toucan crossings'.
Arguably, these aren't showstopper questions; eg, I know what a toucan crossing is and what to do with one, but the only time I've ever come across the name is in driving test questions. Similarly, I don't really need to know about how to tow a caravan given that I don't have a caravan; if I ever needed to, I'd go and read up about it first.
Just rattled through this, got 49/50. I got #30 (warning triangle distance) wrong. It was a guess, no idea.
Same, 9 minutes in.
OP,
If you failed for mulitple minors* then your driving isn't anywhere near good enough to be driving on the road unsupervised. Your attitude suggests you don't understand this. Whilst some aspects of people's driving generally improves (the "you only start learning once you've passed" argument), as you have observed a lot of bad habits develop too - if you've already got them then how low will they go.
To fail on "minors alone" means you need to have made 16 faults, spread across multiple areas.
Did you have an instructor? Did he seem surprised by the number of minors you got (i.e. was your driving in the test worse than normal).
But yes, you need to be aware that what IanMunro says is actually true: "Yes, the test drive is far simpler than normal driving." Nobody will be sitting beside you to provide advice/intervention if you get it all wrong. No directions (yes I know you need to do 10 mins without that - but you are basically following a short local trip, on roads you probably know well). The parking spaces are much smaller in real life. People are much less tolerant when you don't have a big L on the roof. You'll usually be driving somewhere with a time in mind, or people in the car chatting, or something other than driving to focus on... ...if you can't get it right in the 40 minutes you have dedicated and spent a lot of money on being 100% focussed on driving for then you ain't going to manage when doing it for real.
* I think you will find the examiner doesn't refer to them as minor at all. He refers to them as "driving faults". Minor dilutes the significance of them.
Arguably, these aren't showstopper questions
Agreed. There are other even more obscure one in the theory test which you really have to wonder about. The one that always stuck in my mind was "What should you do before entering a tunnel?" where the correct answer was "Retune the radio" 😯
I know the name of toucan crossings though, but only from looking at cycle maps 😀 ("two-can" cross).
47/50 in ~10 minutes - embarrassingly one of my incorrects was not knowing what a toucan crossing is, though as Cougar says I'd know one if I saw one, and what it's called is irrelevant (I was guessing which was which - though probably should have known given I've been looking at the guidance for installation of ped. crossings recently!) I also guessed incorrectly the hazard warning triangle. I also suggested you should stop immediately when flashed by a policeman, which I'd argue is ambiguous.
That test is clearly flawed though as it mentions "road tax"!
"two-can" cross
If you think that's bad, what about the puffin crossing? It's a Pedestrian User Friendly INtelligent crossing apparently. Ouch.
That test is clearly flawed though as it mentions "road tax"!
Yeah, I spotted that too and meant to mention it. Oops.
I also suggested you should stop immediately when flashed by a policeman, which I'd argue is ambiguous.
I rejected that on the grounds that 'stop immediately' translates as 'leap on the middle pedal and stop in the middle of the road. TBH though it's not the greatest question; it could be any of them depending on the surrounding road conditions.
That test is clearly flawed though as it mentions "road tax"!
Perhaps we should lobby for a questions to be added along the lines of:
What is the correct name for 'road tax'?
Why do only some vehicles have to pay Vehicle Excise Duty?
Who pays for the roads?
Why are bicycles just as entitled to use the roads as BMWs?
Anyone fancy starting an e-petition? 😉
Did my driving test 2 years ago. Failed twice in Rhyl on roundabouts. 3rd time went out of my way to Bala. There's no roundabouts (or traffic). passed with 3 minors!
This will sound a harsh - it's meant to. You failed your test because you aren't yet safe to be allowed to drive by yourself on public roads. Observation and car control are the basic skills needed to drive safely and you dont ahve them yet. Come on - how difficult is it to stop a car rolling back on a hill?
As for he pull-push method of steering - it is by far the safest method of steering. Just think how you'd steer away from some plonker who stepped out in front of you at a junction if you had your hands all crossed up.
Contrary to popular belief, the way you are taught to drive IS the best way to drive. All of this "you only learn to drive after you pass your test" stuff is absolute bollocks. You only learn to drive badly after you pass your test.
I am glad you failed your test.
Rant over.
I'd say that motorway driving is in no way easier than driving on a dual carriageway.
Depends on the motorway, driving on the M180 is dead simple, dead boring too.
I failed first time.... leaving the test centre. I had to do the rest of the test knowing i'd failed and things rather fell apart.
The best (worst) I've noted in crossed hands is when people grab the wheel on the inside (palm facing out) as they cross. Holding the wheel on the inside you can only move it about a quarter turn each way. With your hand on the outside of the wheel you can get a half turn each way starting from either 10 or 2. Try it.
Passed about a year ago... 4 minors, 2 each from 2 errors... Can't remember what one was all about, the other was a nervous misjudgement of a corner, and well deserved but never likely to have been a fail.
So, what faults were you given? The gears thing sounds like a minor for control (I was given much the same on my bike test, because quote, "Nobody's perfect") but the hill start could be consider a major loss of control I guess. TBH for the standard maneuvres you can just practice and practice til you can do it with your eyes closed.
From speaking to testers, one of the main reasons that the fail rate is so high is that so many people go to test before they should. OTOH I ended up being ready to test, and having to wait 6 weeks for a booking, so ended up more prepared than I planned. Anyone could fail on the day but there's a fair number of people who go to test who have basically no chance of passing.
Bought my examiner a bottle of vodka the night before my test 🙂
Ordered him not to drink it till the next night.
Passed first time.
"Show me how you would check that the power assisted steering is working before starting a journey."
Errrm, how do you check it then?
Obviously, they hadn't invented that when I took my test - and passed first time of course 😀
You check it by holding the steering wheel and starting the car. If you can move the steering wheel easily with the engine running then the power steering is working. Simple really.
When I finally did pass I only got 1 minor (bit annoying really, I went round a corner in 3rd muttered to myself 'should of done that in 2nd', examiner grinned said 'oh' and gave me a minor for it).
Bit of a pr!ck!!!
Personnally I say abolish driving tests and everyone should drive a car like they would ride a bike:-Jump Reds
-Mount the pavement at random
-Bang on the roof of anyones car who gets a bit too close
-Race strangers.
-Disconnect your brakes and clutch and stay stuck in one, slightly too high, gear, whilest wearing hippster girls jeans and getting in everyones way (But looking "Bang on trend")...
-Drive home drunk along the pavement late at night with a plastic bag full of tennants attached to one side of the steering wheel...
-Do massive Wheelies/Skid/Endos whenever possible.
-Only ever drive anywhere when wearing suitable (expensive) clothing and a hydration pack, even if your just poping down the shops.All of the above as applicable...
😆 😆 I like that Lol..
This will sound a harsh - it's meant to. You failed your test because you aren't yet safe to be allowed to drive by yourself on public roads. Observation and car control are the basic skills needed to drive safely and you dont ahve them yet. Come on - how difficult is it to stop a car rolling back on a hill?As for he pull-push method of steering - it is by far the safest method of steering. Just think how you'd steer away from some plonker who stepped out in front of you at a junction if you had your hands all crossed up.
Contrary to popular belief, the way you are taught to drive IS the best way to drive. All of this "you only learn to drive after you pass your test" stuff is absolute bollocks. You only learn to drive badly after you pass your test.
I am glad you failed your test.
Rant over.
Sounds like you might have your head slightly up your ass there...
I always look before turning or changing lanes, i may not have cocked my head 45 degrees and take my eyes off the road to make it obvious, but i think thats a bit picky. To say I'm unsafe isn't very fair, I can drive really well, maybe not just to the way you need to drive in the test. No one I know drives the same way you were taught in the test.. most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex. Obv you would fail if you did this in a test. Not saying its safe but its how people drive..
Get off your high horse... 🙄
I failed my first test for speeding (33mph through a 30mph zone DOH!), second for hesitation puling out on to Leeds ring road during rush hour, passed third time.
I certainly drive with great awareness in built up areas, pretty much anywhere with housing or paths, but on motorways I go too fast
I had an aunt who failed multiple times. One failure she said: "I knew the examiner hated me. Every time I changed gear he deliberately threw himself forward in his seat."
& OP: I'm afraid to say that every time you post, you show everyone here exactly why you failed.
& OP: I'm afraid to say that every time you post, you show everyone here exactly why you failed.
You weren't in the car so I don't know what you're saying... 🙄
Another "driving god" you are i suspect 🙄
I passed on my second go, the nerves have a massive effect on your performance so it's not really a true reflection of your ability.
I'm an advanced police pursuit trained driver now. If you think your driving test was hard try being assessed three times a day whilst giving a running commentary driving at 100mph plus chasing a police driving instructor who occasionally slams on the brakes and starts reversing towards you at high speed.