[Closed] Driven to despair by Spaniel pup.

Have you had spaniels before? They are HARD work, they just never seem to calm down.

Yep our last dog was a springer spaniel.

Totally different to this one.

My sister-in-law's spaniel is 4 and still does all of those things. I really dread going to visit her because of it.

Does he still have his nuts?

I cannot help with anything but I don't think you should be letting him off his lead again if you can't control him/ recall him effectively.

A lot of my family have cockers and they all seem mad. All the stuff you mentioned (apart from the snapping, I'd put a stop to that sharpish) seems to be fairly normal for them.
I have greyhounds though, so any dog that wants to run for more than a minute seems mad to me

He has lost his nuts.... Made no difference.

We didn't want a dog that spends his life on a lead as that's no fun for any of us.

The trainer taught us to not punish him after he has buggered off and then come back under his steam, so not sure where we go from here.

I've had 2, one was bonkers and did all the stuff yours is doing, the other a dopy fun loving cheerful chap.

Despite all the training (professional Gun dog trainer) the bonkers one went back to the farmer to hunt, and was a fabulous dog there on, the other dopy one stayed with me.

Springers are like that, think you've got your hands full.

He goes absolutely mad when he sees birds. Goes into proper hunting mode despite having no training to do so.

our cockapoo (working cocker mum / poodle dad) went through a spate of that at about the same sort of age; our trainer friend said it's almost adolescence (although as a spayed bitch / neutered male it's not hormones is it!) but at that age before they are properly out of puppy years they often have another period of regression / reasserting to find out if they can advance in the pecking order a bit.

Don't give up; like so much it could be just a phase.

He has lost his nuts.... Made no difference.

We had several cocker spaniels when I was growing up. Females.....they we're nice dogs but prone to just running off into hedgerows chasing rabbits and birds. I lost count of the amount of hours spent calling for them. Sometimes we would just have to go home and they would turn up after crossing roads. Not good.

Once, when we had mother and daughter, we were waling on the Quantocks and they just went....gone. They were out for 48hrs eventually found by a farmer and returned home. Again, not good.

Well, my bonkers one went through 2 years of training, pretty damn Gun dog at the end of it mind. Trouble was he needed to be hunting or with the pack, the farmer had 11. Left at home with his brother was clearly no fun at all and ate the sofa, curtain, carpet around the open fire, shoes, rope.. lots of rope... whilst his brother lay comatose rammed up against the aga. I gave all I could to them both but the bonkers one just wanted to hunt bless him. But mine did come from a farmer who bread them for hunting, it came as no surprise the farmer kept saying "hand the bonkers one back, look he's happy here and just becomes one of the pack, when you take him home he gets unsettled and simply wants to come back" Gah, I was gutted. Best for the dog though. We went on hunts with the farmer and his pack many times before I bought them and after, damn if the bonkers one didn't jump all over me each time we went up to the farm.

My story is no where near what you are going through, my only advice is don't give up because once they know they've won you are doomed.

Just from a different angle... (edit - ok, so a few posts appeared along the same lines while I was typing 🙂 )

I have a Kelpie, she nearly broke me at that age too. Chewing everything including furniture, climbing on all furniture including work tops, complete escape artist. She virtually trashed the house if I turned my back.

Like you we did all the training when she was younger, but she just seemed to go backwards at about 9 months.

6 years on she is an amazing dog. Once she went through her 'teenage' stage (upto about 18 months I'm afraid) all her initial training resurfaced. She is still a character, but perfect house manners. Her recall is spot on, although she still stops an arm length away, just to make her point. She is probably the best dog I've owned, so intelligent, almost reads my mind.

I have to admit that I did get another dog, to keep her company / wear her out, and that seemed to help. The second dog was younger, but much calmer. Also a Kelpie.

It's up to you, but in my experience it does get better, slowly.

Had 4 wotking sptingers over my lifetime - theyre all batshit mental unless ptoperly worked.

Get a poodle or a poodle cross, they are literally a bazillion times eadier to train and much more focused on being socially accepted.

Theyre a reason they suddenly exploded in popularity - despite being a little bit effete they are great.

He goes absolutely mad when he sees birds. Goes into proper hunting mode despite having no training to do so.

Thats my sisters springer, absolute loon when he sees a bird.

I'm not a dog person but it sounds to me like he's not getting enough stimulus / exercise.

On holiday once I watched a farmer exercising a spaniel, he had some sort of plastic slingshot thing that could throw a tennis ball an unbelievably long way, like the full length of a field. He was out with it for a long time, ran the bugger ragged, only stopped when it was walking back rather than running. I'd respectfully suggest that your "lots of walks" may be insufficient.

However,

He has snapped at the wife

This would give me serious cause for concern.

The trainer taught us to not punish him after he has buggered off and then come back under his steam, so not sure where we go from here.

Back to the trainer, I'd have thought?

If it was better behaved when being trained and has regressed its might be worth looking at any bad habits the rest of you might have gotten into. Training teaches dogs what to do when it hears a command but its your authority that makes the dog actually pay attention. Little bad habits like feeding scraps off the table, allowing the dog up in the furniture etc all undermine that authority. If your in a household with young kids and a dog then they'll likely be less consistent with all that.

My friend had quite an old dog who obedience dropped off a cliff and it was simply because his young kids started inviting the dog up onto to the sofa - whenever the kids were about the dog didn't respond to commands from anyone because they'd changed the hierarchy.

Another consistency aspect is having formalised routines and actions all the time - telling the dog to sit or wait or calling them to you before you do anything - a pat of the head or feeding whatever and not just trying to give commands when they're doing something they shouldn't.

Also as a family you might need to train yourselves a bit to give commands in the same way and have the same routines for day to day situations.

He has snapped at the wife

It depends a bit on what 'snapped at' was. Spaniels seem to have a trait of grabbing and tugging for attention - normally your sleeve, although they're obviously doing it with their sharp toothy mouths its actually pretty gentle. But that would tend to be in pretty calm situations where they're being ignored (usually these days by someone who's starring at a screen) as opposed to any confrontational situation.

Spaniels need mental stimulation as much as physical. If you just go in a field and launch something all day it'll just fetch it and run all day getting fitter and fitter to a point. Same with walking all day. You can't go for a walk with a spaniel chatting to your mate and ignoring the dog, you need to be constantly sending the dog off and getting it to search, come back, talking to it etc. Once you've got the dog trained and you're the key thing in its life then it'll trot along beside you fine perhaps but it's not guaranteed.

Get along to a trainer and perhaps get some one to one time rather than in a group. Ours was a bit mad in groups at that age. She's still a bit mad now to be fair and she's 11.

I had a spaniel as I was out in the woods all day and she spent time with me either outside in the woods or curled up in her cage in the truck happy in here little den. I'm lucky I didn't have to leave her at home. I don't think spaniels are the best at being left, especially cockers as they like interaction.

I'm no dog trainer and ours isn't perfect I wish I'd taken my own advice in some of the above early on! We chucked a thrower for her to "tire her out" when she was a pup but I'm sure that just wound her up more.

Very rewarding little dogs when you sort out it's issues though I'm sure. Get some help.

Chasing birds
Not doing his recall
Going so far away from us when off the lead we can't see him
Digging holes
Stealing food off table
Jumping on sofa and doing wall of death around the front room
He has snapped at the wife
Burning the grass with his wee
Chewing his beds and toys to bit
Stealing the boys teddy's off the beds.

My cocker is over 14 years old. He may have slowed down a bit but he still does most of the above. He did start to calm down a bit at around 7 years old but only a bit...

We had a springer.
It ate the kitchen & jumped off a quarry face to It's doom. (probably chasing a bird)

😯

Needs moar pics..

Say "hello" beautiful..

[img] [/img]

As I sob into my left arm.

We're on our 3rd and 4th working cockers .....

Chasing birds - [i]completely natural - what did you expect?[/i]
Not doing his recall - [i]you've stopped training[/i]
Going so far away from us when off the lead we can't see him - [i]see recall above[/i]
Digging holes - [i]naughty[/i]
Stealing food off table - [i]training[/i]
Jumping on sofa and doing wall of death around the front room - [i]excited[/i]
He has snapped at the wife - [i]bad[/i]
Burning the grass with his wee - [i]thought only bitches did this[/i]
Chewing his beds and toys to bit - [i]he's young[/i]
Stealing the boys teddy's off the beds - [i]100% normal [/i]

Sounds like you need to keep training him.... I can guarantee that a working cocker will take a lot longer than 5 or 6 months to train. Keep at it.
Do not use force, just a very laod 'NO' when you catch him doing anything wrong.

He'll get the idea ifhe's a proper working dog but if there's some show dog in there then I can't help - small head = small brain.

Jas (right, mum) and Inca (left 6 month daughter) on Monday:
[IMG] [/IMG]

My mum had a springer about 20 years ago - it's was absolutely bonkers and did everything yours is doing.

In the end they gave it to a gamekeeper who could keep it busy all day.

Still bonkers, but tired.

Double the madness with a second spaniel? 😆

Tempted to say don't treat your dog like you do your bikes.....i.e. they seem like the best thing ever, but then you quickly loose interest due to some minor niggle......okay, I accept that's a bit harsh :?.

Some of the things you mention are causes for concern no doubt, but don't try and find other little issues to justify your decision (rather like you do with your bikes, cars etc). For example, the following reasons you list are not good reasons to get rid of a dog:

Burning the grass with his wee
Chewing his beds and toys to bit
Stealing the boys teddy's off the beds.

Did none of your previous dogs do this? Really? Pretty normal behaviour for a young dog. They grow out of chewing (or at least learn to chew the right things).

I seem to remember stw's previous serial bike swapper and fellow ridiculous decision maker (hora), who you seem to have a lot in common with, had a similar problem with his dog once it no longer fitted into his lifestyle. Sorry to be so harsh, but it's only the dogs I feel sorry for in these situations.

Think back to the previous dogs you had - most of the issues you list are just part of a phase that the dog will move on from, but more or less training may be required. If you do give him away, please make every effort to give him the best chance of finding a home where he will be happier, and the new owners will give him the time, patience and training he needs.

I seem to remember stw's previous serial bike swapper and fellow ridiculous decision maker (hora), who you seem to have a lot in common with, had a similar problem with his dog once it no longer fitted into his lifestyle. Sorry to be so harsh, but it's only the dogs I feel sorry for in these situations.

This is a bit harsh, the OP is asking for advice at the point of despair.

Yes, it is harsh, but the OP is coming up with some pretty stupid reasons (see my post above) to help justify his decision to ditch it. Seems like he is a bit bored with looking after the dog. Renton has shown a huge lack of patience in the past, if I'm offering any advice it's not too make the same mistake with his dog. I hope this helps him put that into perspective. This isn't a car or bike frame we are talking about. Dog ownership is a responsibility, it doesn't end when it's not fun anymore.

It depends a bit on what 'snapped at' was. Spaniels seem to have a trait of grabbing and tugging for attention - normally your sleeve, although they're obviously doing it with their sharp toothy mouths its actually pretty gentle. But that would tend to be in pretty calm situations where they're being ignored (usually these days by someone who's starring at a screen) as opposed to any confrontational situation.

I can verify that. They can be quite mouthy.

Dogs - but especially Springers aren't furniture for your house. Treat them with the understanding that they have exactly the same emotional range and need for stimulation as you, a human.

Yes, it is harsh, but the OP is coming up with some pretty stupid reasons (see my post above) to help justify his decision to ditch it. Seems like he is a bit bored with looking after the dog. Renton has shown a huge lack of patience in the past, if I'm offering any advice it's not too make the same mistake with his dog. I hope this helps him put that into perspective. This isn't a car or bike frame we are talking about. Dog ownership is a responsibility, it doesn't end when it's not fun anymore.

Renton is asking for advice / reassurance. Maybe just be a bit kinder in the tone you use?

treats treats and more treats!

mine was a right PITA but just use a (mini/training) treat for every good behaviour, or even don't feed him in one go but use his meal as treats ie instead of one meal he gets it as 20 rewards for good behaviour

mines still far from perfect but much more manageable, the best command i ever taught him was "look" with a reward only when he makes eye contact- means he can't use selective blindness/deafness to avoid commands

it is a huge challenge to train a spaniel and you need patience but it is possible and you will slowly get there. Never 'punish' the dog especially for running away when he returns, it will only make it worse, always treat when he returns even after an age. Find something treat/ball/toy that it obssesses over and use that

get some toys like an antler/kong/toy you can fill with treats etc that will take his attention away from chewing other things

i sat for a couple hours teaching him not to chew each item in the lounge, always give him something better as a reward

got any friends who are dog people? let them take him off you for a break once in a while, even better if they can enforce the rules too

angeldust - Member

I seem to remember stw's previous serial bike swapper and fellow ridiculous decision maker (hora), who you seem to have a lot in common with, had a similar problem with his dog once it no longer fitted into his lifestyle.

Not fair.
The dog became troublesome around his very young child.
He did the right thing.

And he's not here to defend himself.

1. He's at his teenage years. Another 6months to a year and he will be calmer.

2. He's old enough to castrate. That should calm him a bit. If you have no interest in breeding him, i'd get that done.

3. Check your not giving him too much protein in his food. It makes some dogs a bit over active. He will be fully grown now so can go onto adult food. Some of the high quality foods especially puppy ones for growth have alot of protein.

4. There is a thing called DAP diffuser which if you plug in the house should calm him. Last about a month.

5. Some of this is training and time etc so stick with it.

6. Is he a normal cocker spaniel or a working cocker? They are different. The working cockers are the ultimate gun dog but generally dont make good pets unless people are always outside in all weathers. I see lots of them that have or will bite their owners, be dissobedient and steal food. Cocker spaniels are much more easy going in general.

stick a stair gate on so he can't go upstairs, then at least one problem is sorted.

My dog guy tells me over and over again that i have to be the most interesting thing happening on a walk, if not the dog will find something else to amuse itself, most likely rabbits, birds, deer.... So talking, playing, rewarding and repeat

I seem to remember stw's previous serial bike swapper and fellow ridiculous decision maker (hora), who you seem to have a lot in common with, had a similar problem with his dog once it no longer fitted into his lifestyle.

That really isnt fair on Hora... no wonder he doesnt come on here much any more.!

Yes, it is harsh, but the OP is coming up with some pretty stupid reasons (see my post above) to help justify his decision to ditch it. Seems like he is a bit bored with looking after the dog. Renton has shown a huge lack of patience in the past, if I'm offering any advice it's not too make the same mistake with his dog. I hope this helps him put that into perspective. This isn't a car or bike frame we are talking about. Dog ownership is a responsibility, it doesn't end when it's not fun anymore.

Some of the things you mention are causes for concern no doubt, but don't try and find other little issues to justify your decision (rather like you do with your bikes, cars etc)

To be fair you are coming across as a bit of a douche.

Of course dogs arent like bikes and cars.

However when you are sat comforting your wife because she is crying due to the dog just doing the above list all day every day, you know you have a problem.

He snapped at my wife when he was having one of bouts of jumping on the sofa and getting told "Down" she went to point at him and give the command and he must of thought she was playing and snapped a little and caught her nose.

He gets lots of treat and praise when he comes back to you on a walk, even if he has taken 20 mins to do so, feels weird praising him for being naughty but you cant tell them off or else they will never return.

Both his parent are working dogs, met them both and they were both beautiful and well trained.

He also has lots of toys, not just chewy ones but things he has to move around to get treats out of to stimulate him.

He it totally different to our previous springer who was a bit mental but nothing compared to this barm pot !!

Feel for you. Full on working dogs can be a real handful. I would go as far as to say not really suitable for keeping as pets at times.

he must of thought she was playing and snapped a little and caught her nose.

when you say "snap" it implies (to me at least) a deliberate (not playful) action. So was it just really a misjudgement?

Both his parent are working dogs, met them both and they were both beautiful and well trained.

And it will have taken a huge amount of effort to get them that way. Working Cockers are mental

Renton, how are you calling him back?

Sort this and you'll be half way there. I feel it's the single most important training for cockers.

My dog guy tells me over and over again that i have to be the most interesting thing happening on a walk, if not the dog will find something else to amuse itself, most likely rabbits, birds, deer.... So talking, playing, rewarding and repeat

The breeder we got our dog from also warned us of this with working cockers - they're used to working and if you don't keep them busy they'll go self employed. And you might not like the jobs they find for themselves.

To be fair you are coming across as a bit of a douche.

Says the guy that is using the fact that a puppy is weeing on his lawn and chewing things as justification for getting rid :roll:. Express that publicly, and frankly you should be prepared for some criticism.

Insults aside, it doesn't sound like you are the sort of person that has the patience or skills to train or accommodate this dog. Easier just to buy a new one? I hate seeing dogs being abandoned, but if that is the best thing to do, please at least put a little more effort into making sure he gets a good home. Then think really carefully before getting another one. Don't just think about your family, but about the dogs welfare and happiness too. Then we might avoid a repeat of this thread in 6 months.

You've certainly got a mad one! The breed is reknowned for never running off, so that seems odd. Chasing birds yes, especially Pheasants but he should stay close.

Unfortunately Springers have been poorly bred and there are a lot more issues these days. My in laws had them for years but had to do the worst to their most recent due to the fact it would randomly attack other dogs and had other issues too. I'm not suggesting you do the same, rather I would embark on a 3 month training session keeping him in a crate at home and on a lead on walks and work from there. Do not allow the family to distract your training.

I think a firm tap to the top of the head when saying no, firmly reinforces the command, if necessary, however only when its sensible. A dog won't understand your anger if he's just returned from running off, as you are shouting at him for coming back.

It's very tricky and you need to be patient. If you let him out of the crate and he starts misbehaving put him back in. He'll eventually work it out. Good luck.

I hate seeing dogs being abandoned

Abandoned? Shirley he'll sell it for a profit? 😉

Another thing from me, might have already been said..

Don't go training by trying to wear the dog out, as in keep throwing stuff, long runs or walks or letting them loose for too long. All you'll do is think you are wearing them out, when in fact you will be training them like an athlete.
They come pre-programmed to seek/find/fetch/grab/return/dribble then repeat 30 times. Hone these skills and training techniques during the early months, they'll be active, engaged and (partially) mentally satisfied.

I'd suggest if he's running off that you head somewhere remote like a moorland landscape, or farmers field (permission Obvz) where you can see him bounce and keep a decent line of sight on him, then direct the call or instruction that way because the dog will be too busy in the undergrowth to hear you if you are calling in the opposite direction..

No chance of a pic ?

It sounds like you have your hands full. As has been mentioned above, you need to keep training him, dogs don't learn something and remember it for ever, they need constant reinforcement.

I don't think anyone has suggested it so far, but have you tried using a long line to work on the recall? A 30ft long line so that you can give him some freedom, but keep him within sight, then recall him. Make sure he chooses to come back to you though, don't just yank him to you when you want him back.

Other things to try are preventing him going into the kids bedrooms so he doesn't have the opportunity to steal their toys. Giving him a Kong as has been suggested is worth trying.

Are there any doggy daycare places near you? My friend used to run one and it was very popular with people that wanted to tire their dogs out while they went to work.

Ultimately you have a working dog with the energy to work all day. If you don't provide an outlet for that energy the dog will be crazy as it will be too worked up to focus. Get back in contact with your trainer and ask for some one to one sessions.

Abandoned? Shirley he'll sell it for a profit?

Wait. You mean this is all just a stealth ad?

Well played, OP. Well played.

I remember our now 5 year old Cocker (mum a show, dad a worker) displaying much of the same behaviours but he 'calmed' down a lot. It felt like we weren't winning with him for a long time but suddenly things improved almost overnight. Some stuff that seemed to help:

- playing games to stimulate the dog mentally. Hide a few pieces of cheese and use the 'find it' command.

- recall to his name has always been a little hit or miss, recall to one of the ACME whistles is much, much better. Treats never worked as rewards but a ball or Frisbee did.

- during training having him run off lead but with a trailing line, we used an old climbing rope. If he ignored an instruction we could stand on the trailing line.

- having a few red lines (e.g. paying interest in sheep) which if he crossed we would be very firm in our response.

- teaching him to run at heal when commanded has been pretty effective and is useful in many situations. Again, a ball or Frisbee helps to keep his attention.

Thanks

Chris

[img][url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1624/26631618631_f1bcee2494_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1624/26631618631_f1bcee2494_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Gzm1ot ]DSC_0105[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/141130356@N05/ ]CHRIS NAYLOR[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Abandoned? Shirley he'll sell it for a profit?

I had to use a bit of willpower not to mention that, should have known someone else would come along and say it anyway :lol:.
And, don't call me Shirley :-).

Ah yes thats the other one, he does not want to heel any more despite using the same commands as we did when training him.

Its almost as though he has had a bump on the head and forgot absolutely everything we taught him at training.

BTW the same trainer trained our previous Springer and he was brilliant.

Abandoned? Shirley he'll sell it for a profit?

Wait. You mean this is all just a stealth ad?

Well played, OP. Well played.

Sorry lads Im just not finding this funny at all.

great picture Chris!
a small water pistol is useful for discouraging chewing. keep it concealed so he thinks whatever he's chewing is having a pop back, then stuff a toy in his mouth. this really worked with mine like flicking a switch.
if you need to discipline ( for instance the snapping thing ), arms around all four legs and pull so he goes on his back, 'vulcan death grip' around throat ( just light pressure but let him know you're there ), and then maintain eye contact and bellow down his nose.
i used to regularly hide from my dog on a walk, so she kept awareness of where i was all the time.
burning grass = keep him off the grass?
i had some success with a citrus collar. i'd suggest a remote controlled one. it puts a puff of citrus up in front of their nose that just stops them dead from whatever it is they're doing. get him used to wearing it over a period of a week maybe ( just like their first collar ) before you start using it.
good luck. don't just ditch him. at least post here to see if anyone will take him on.

Our cocker spaniel is hard work for us and hardworking at times. She needs stimulation that comes with training in our field or on moorland walks. Though wilful and down right naughty at times what she does is all related to hunting and retrieving, its often quite amusing. She may purloin your socks of slippers with some stealth but will always bring them to hand when asked. Sticking at the training really helps especially on walks, an application of super treats has an amazing effect on response to the whistle. Using her for beating or finding downed birds on shoot days everything becomes clear. On a walk she can be indifferent to the return whistle at times but on a shoot day never, it's like she really clicks with what's happening and what needs to be done. She becomes very obedient and attentive and takes direction to hand signs or whistle. I suppose those day provide the full stimulation that she needs due to the years of breeding. Stick at it with the training, it is hard but you must be consistent as should everyone else in the family. Good luck.

We have have a working cocker who's now now 3.5 and has been/is bastard hard work. He's intelligent, stubborn and can stay on the go all day.

He's never responded to punishment and the kids caused alot of problems by undermining his training, resulting in him thinking he was top dog.

He and the kids are a bit older now and things have begun to settle a touch, but not before surgery for me from an infected bite.

He's no docile black lab and never will be, but we understand him better now. Really, he just wants to be working, and you can see that when we're busy in the garden - he's always involved in what's going on and poking about,ears up and a grin on his face.

We had

Stair gates, at the foot of the stairs, into the kitchen. Used to control his access etc
A plant sprayer - with a firm 'No' as it was used, after a few sprays just Saying 'No' was often enough and if not then picking up the spary was enough to moderate his behaviour. Not actually sprayed him with it for at least 6 months I think but occasionally we pick it up if he'd playing up.
Consistency - always respond the same way tot he same behaviour. We've struggled with this but if you 'reward' a behvaiou (feeding at the table or whatever) the dog will just repeat it endlessly in the hope of getting the same result. It's the 'one armed bandit' approach - if you know you'll get a jackpot if you pull the lever a 1000 times you'll just keep pulling the lever.

My advice is to stick with it, use 'mind games' not just physical ones and expect a couple of months more of gradually changign behaviour until you're happy.

[edit] we have a Viszla which are known 'nutters' but persevering with training has been rewarded with a dog that mostly does what he's told has never chewed the furniture and is a lovely companion.

It must be frustrating to have a dog so different to your last one but I think you need to consider changing your behaviour in order to alter how the dog is - don't assume it will respond the same as the last one you had.

Finally - I can understand how stressful this is, like having a child who you can do nothing with but feel an emotional commitment to.

I have no real experience here, other than once having a new Goldie puppy at the same time as an older Goldie.

Have you thought of taking him back for regular walkies and play dates with his parents? If they are well behaved, they may teach him a thing or two.

We wont get rid of him, thats just the frustration talking.

He really is a little bugger, we hide from him on walks, sometimes he comes back other times he just buggers off even further.

We had my sister in laws dog staying with us for a week and he was whistle trained, our dog started to respond to it too and so we bought one but now hes not interested despite lots of fuss and rewards.

Our 8 month old Cocker spaniel pup is driving us all insane.

We took him to training classes and he was really good, however he has regressed so badly it's making walking him a chore rather than being fun.

Chasing birds
Not doing his recall
Going so far away from us when off the lead we can't see him

Stealing food off table

Jumping on sofa and doing wall of death around the front room

He has snapped at the wife

Burning the grass with his wee

Chewing his beds and toys to bit

It's getting to the point where its not enjoyable to have him around any more.

He gets lots of walks and attention bit still he is a pain.

We have even talked about taking him to a rescue centre and giving him away. We would never do this with any of our previous dogs.

Someone tell me it gets better !!!

Please stick with it, I have always said, its not the training of the dog that is difficult, its the training of the owners that is hard. 😉

http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/

Try looking here for a local training course. I took one of mine years ago. He was an odd character and did everything at hos own speed but loved the structured training. Flushing, retrieving dummies etc. It is what they are bred for.

He worked very rarely but as soon as he saw a dummy he switched on after that initial course. To the point that at the village fete they had a display one year.

Afterwards they had a fetch the dummy race. Many dogs had a go, held at the collar whilst the dummy was thrown and then released.

Then 5 yo, scrotey cursing #1 wanted to enter assuming awkward dog would win easily. Tried to dissuade him but he was having non of it. So off he want for his turn. Awkward dog sat next to him. "dont let go till i tell you' said the bloke. Long story short, as this most likely is not helping but awkward dog sat at 5yo side whilst the dummy was thrown and did not move a muscle till 5yo gave him the word. He then ambled out, picked up the dummy, ambled back and did a perfect retrieve in the slowest time plus about 30 seconds.

He was THE most willfull and disobedient Spaniel I have ever had. But he was born for a purpose and though he often did it at this own speed he was never happier than when doing it.

Seriously, give the dog a chance. let him do what a hundred generation of the forbears have bred to do.

we had an English cocker and now have a Welsh springer. All the behaviours you are describing are perfectly normal for a dog of that age. You clearly have a high drive dog so you need to channel that so that he doesn't make your life miserable. Lots of good advice above. I'd recommend clicker/treat training for indoors and scent training in an outdoors. For recall, hide and seek worked a well for us. It channels the natural hunting instinct into a useful reward based game. Our Welshie is prone to running off, the only thing that has worked has been me stopping calling her constantly so that she has to come looking for me (which she does eventually).
Cockers can be very stubborn, and need gentle but firm and very consistent handling.

He really is a little bugger, we hide from him on walks, sometimes he comes back other times he just buggers off even further.

Can pet gundogs be successful?

by admin on November 6, 2011

People often want to know if a ‘pet’ gundog can be a good ‘working’ gundog. The answer is absolutely – yes.
Most working gundogs are pet gundogs

The vast majority of successful working gundogs in the UK today, are first and foremost pets.

Most gundog owners do not work their dogs on a daily basis, even in the shooting season. Most gundogs live indoors as companions and spend their evenings snoozing on the hearth rug.

Some aspects of gundog training may be easier if a dog is kennelled but it is by no means essential to kennel your dog in order to succeed in training him.

There are two principle factors which will affect the ability of your pet dog to learn gundog skills and to perform in the field

Genes
Training

Genes

Your dog’s parentage, the genetic information he has inherited, are important. Whether or not he is a pet, a gundog with working parents is likely to be easier to train, and more successful than gundogs with show parentage.

However there is no reason why many show gundogs cannot achieve a reasonable standard provided they are willing to follow scent outdoors, and like to carry things in their mouths. If your dog has these characteristics you can make a start with gundog training.
Training

The way you train your dog is all important. The crucial fact to remember with a companion dog that lives indoors, is that training is not something that you do simply in special timeslots called ‘training sessions’ . It is happening all the time.

Every time your dog responds in any way to anything you (or your partner, or your children) do or say, he is being trained. For better or for worse. And this is why it may be easier to train a kennelled dog who is not influenced by the natural flow of family life and the disruptive influences of friends and children.

You can however, like many others do, succeed despite the influence of family life. It just takes a little effort and some planning. Don’t be afraid to make a start. Your dog will only benefit from the training.

You might also like to read ‘is my dog a gundog?‘

Thanks mate appreciate that.

Here he is .....

OP what is happening sounds very familiar. It is tough and is does get better. My now 3 year old springer was a nightmare at 8 months to teh point we vowed to never get a puppy ever again.

My advice is get a good trainer to help you, don't be dragged into using physical and "dominance" type training methods - you are risking making things worse in later life. They are wrong and unnecessary.

I would suggest walking on a long line and practice recall in loads of situations. Pippa Mattinsons total recall is a good book to help train recall. You can practice recall on a short lead as well, the dog does not need to be far away from you.

Try to avoid getting frustrated, that's more easily said than done I know, but i've made mistakes in training due to frustration.

Here's teh honest bit: My springer started being reactive to other dogs at 18 months, we thought she had an aggression problem and it was stressing us out. We tried to fix it ourselves using online info and a training book but in reality probably made things worse. Earlier this year we got teh assistance of a really good local trainer. And he showed us what were doing wrong, and is helping her on the way, and showed us that she is not agressive but just scared of other dogs because she doesn't feel protected by us - and i can pinpoint the exact moment this happened. I feel awful, that I didn't fix this properly when it happened. I am learning a lot every day. She's not my first dog - had 3 rescues before (2 of which I still have.) Anyway moral of the story - get help now, things will get better.

(PS - pinning a dog on it's back and staring at it will do nothing but make it scared of you and less likely to do what you want. bloody stupid idea.)

But Spaniels are ace and rewarding. eventually!

pics time:

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/313/18985733510_dc7833a996_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/313/18985733510_dc7833a996_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/uVGR7W ]Nell returned from the undergrowth with a new hat.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/evilgoat/ ]Evil Goat[/url], on Flickr

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It's a puppy, but IF it is ever to do beating, you shouldn't be giving it any toys to chew.

We have this little scamp

[img] [/img]

Mum is a working Cocker (quite chilled) Dad is a bat shit mental Toy Poodle.

She is coming up to 4 months old and is (touch wood) ok. Clicker training plus hiding treats and things under cups helps stimulate her. I did read somewhere that 10 mins mental stimulation is better than 30 mins physical activity.

That Springer ^ Looks properly mental but that's ace. I love springers but I have enough chaos with 2 boys in the house 😆

Sorry lads Im just not finding this funny at all.

Is that because of the serious subject matter, or due to the reminder of how much of

a douche

Angeldust... if you have come to just drag up old stuff just piss off.

I took him out at dinner with his treats and apart from running across the whole field chasing a Red Kite he was good !! 🙄

It's a puppy, but IF it is ever to do beating, you shouldn't be giving it any toys to chew.

Why?

Because it can become hard mouthed, as it encourages biting down on things. The dog should be able to carry a bird without creating any marks on it. The only things it should be given to chew is food/nylabones or a kong toy with food inside. Squeaky toys are a big no no. It should also not be encouraged to do the death shake or play tug of war. Let's not get off topic here though as the OP is miles away from gundog training, but these are the foundations that are instilled from an early age. 😉

There is some good advice here, find a good trainer, a good one will go above and beyond to help you. 😉

Renton. I strongly suggest getting a long training lead. 20m of webbing. Your dog is learning that chasing wildlife is more fun than you. You don't want that to be a permanent behaviour. A training lead will stop him being able to do that and you can work together.

Angeldust... if you have come to just drag up old stuff just pi@@ off.

😉 People are not just going to forget that behaviour mate, no matter how much you might like them to. Note that I resisted bringing it up in the first place (I was responding to those that did).

I took him out at dinner with his treats and apart from running across the whole field chasing a Red Kite he was good !!

If you lived anywhere near me I'd invite you to come out with me and my Bedlington, and I'd give you a few tips on how we sorted recall with a very stubborn dog.

So what behavior are you referring to then ? The supposed selling of a bike for more than I paid or was it something else?

Yes that. What else would it be?

Because it can become hard mouthed, as it encourages biting down on things

Renton what whistle are you using to call him back?

Hi - lots of good advice here.

Not that this is especially helpful but we've had 4 springers, and probably 3 of the 4, we've gone through similar feelings of "will it get better?" in their early years. And in each case, we've suddenly realised it's got better and the dogs are a complete joy ... so hang in there, fingers crossed the same happens for you.

Now an angel (ish!)

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Says the guy that is using the fact that a puppy is weeing on his lawn and chewing things as justification for getting rid :roll:. Express that publicly, and frankly you should be prepared for some criticism.

Insults aside, it doesn't sound like you are the sort of person that has the patience or skills to train or accommodate this dog. Easier just to buy a new one? I hate seeing dogs being abandoned, but if that is the best thing to do, please at least put a little more effort into making sure he gets a good home. Then think really carefully before getting another one. Don't just think about your family, but about the dogs welfare and happiness too. Then we might avoid a repeat of this thread in 6 months.

^This.

Mate, I'm feeling a lot more sorry for the cocker than I am for you at this stage.

Poor form by the breeders too, they should have vetted the new owners more effectively, especially as it's a working dog. A more thorough vetting would have flagged that the new owners are completely ill-equipped to own working dogs.

Very sad situation. There are specialist working-dog re-homing centres in both England and Scotland, I suggest you get him to one asap before you do him permanent damage.

Renton, if you are no longer wanting to keep the dog contact your local Police Dog Section. They are often willing to take Spaniel dogs as Sniffers. At 8 months that sounds like a good age.

No as I said we do want to keep him.

What I said earlier was out of frustration.

He is a lovely dog. .... Just mental.

Our working cocker does all the things you mentioned. He was brilliant up to around 10 months old, trained to the whistle etc. Then he decided he liked chasing birds more than being with us.
At one point we got that fed up (running off 3-4 fields away, ran across a road, no recall once he's in the bird chasing mode) he just had walks on the lead, the problem then is he won't get enough exercise which causes other issues.
As someone said (I skim read through most the posts), get a long training lead and start from scratch again. I still won't trust ours 100% but it's getting better, It's about making you and your playing with him more interesting than what's been bred into him, ours loves his ball and that is the only thing that will overpower his natural instinct to chase birds.
Cockers are amazing dogs but need a lot of attention and work. When we go away on hols in our camper and he's with us 24/7 running on the beach and fields every day he's like a different dog.
Keep at it, the rest of the things like ripping stuff up and going on the settee are the easy bits. We don't let ours on the settee anymore, it took him a week or so to get used to it but he's fine now.