[Closed] Dressage

I'd probably struggle to tell how well they're doing some of the gymnastics or diving routines too. I guess sometimes you just have to rely on the tv pundit to tell you.

Turn over and watch the gymnastics,a german guy just did an amazing routine on the bar,not that i know anything about it but it was pretty crazy!!!

Horse dancing has no place in the olympics same goes for anything involving an animal.

****in crap. even worse that the 'live cycling' tab on the red button takes you to a second feed of it!!!

2 feeds of bloody prancing ponies!

tracknicko, You can pick up anything you missed online BBC. they only briefly showed the Brownlee medal ceremony missing JB completely, but there was full coverage to rewatch on the BBC website.

BTW my dressaging sister in Australia will be thrilled with that result.

thanks man. using me laptop for work though so just tv on in background.

I feel it would be greatly enlivened by having the horses being encouraged to dance by whatever means the jockey chooses.....

[img] [/img]

A friend of mine was a champion dressage person/rider/jockey/cowboy (not sure of the right terminology).

Not a cool sport i'm afraid.

He also rides bikes so probably is on here...so...er...sorry.

They should do it on ice. spice it up a bit.

Big money needed to buy a top dressage horse - £100k. Another reason it shouldn't be in the Olympics.

Big money needed to buy a top [s]dressage horse[/s] time trial bike - £10k. Another reason it shouldn't be in the Olympics.

After all, it's just riding a bike, isn't it?

McHamish - Member
A friend of mine was a champion dressage person/rider/jockey/cowboy (not sure of the right terminology).

Partner

BBC were quoting £20k for a track bike!

Sandwich - Member
BBC were quoting £20k for a track bike!

Even better example, then!

After all, it's just riding a bike round and round in cirlces, isn't it?

😉

Entry level track bike = £200-300
Entry level [ ] dressage horse = £60,000.00
Dressage uniform = £3,000.00

So, riding a bike is easier than riding a horse then..?

So, riding a bike is easier than riding a horse then..?

Yep. Your point is?

Figure skating for horses.

One of the reasons I have heard for not letting Downhill into the Olympics is that it relies too much on equipment: Er.... **cough**dressage**cough**show jumping**cough**

Yep. Your point is.

It was a rhetorical question.

I agree that dressage is not a spectator sport for those that do not ride or love horses, but you could argue that it is historically closer to the spirit of the olympics than many of the sports in the current games.

but you could argue that it is historically closer to the spirit of the olympics than many of the sports in the current games.

How so?

dressage is not a spectator sport for those that do not ride or love horses,

Nor, for many, are many other Olympic sports. Take cycling for example. To most, it's [i]just riding bikes[/i]. They don't see the skill, tactics, devotion and passion that goes in to it.

However, one of the joys of these games has been hearing people getting interested in sports they might never have thought about watching before! Almost got bored of explaining track cycling to people in the office over recent days! Almost, but didn't!

I reckon the main reason for downhilling not being in the Olympics is because it's a shitting pile of shite.

same goes for anything involving an animal.

😯 What kind of olympics are you watching?

If the argument about it being about the rider not the horse were true, then surely they should all use the same horse?

Don't sit on the fence, Darcy. Tell us what you [i]really[/i] think!

I'm just thinking aloud on this one and don't feel particularly strongly either way...

As you said above, many sports (like downhill) rely heavily on equipment - whereas I would think that something like dressage is heavily reliant upon the relationship one has with the horse and the subtle control the rider has over it. Guess that the deeper you get into any sport the more it costs, whether it be cycling, rowing, athletics - or horseriding. Albeit that the latter tends to be factor of a few thousand times more so!

Ok O'Flashearty, I will. Do you think I normally don't then? 🙂

Bring back chariot racing with pointy sticks and sharp swords 😀

Dressage is one of the few events in the Olympics where I really can't muster any enthusiasm at all, its a bridge too far.

Entry level [ ] dressage horse = £60,000.00
Dressage uniform = £3,000.00

I don't know where your getting your figures from but they are b*****ks.

my manager has just bought a new horse for her son c4k, this is to compete at regional/national level. Not cheap, but considering what some on here pay for bikes.... and this is someone who can win competitions.

Yes if your competing at the top level, ie worlds, olympics then getting a from good bloodlines then you can spend a large fortune.

And yes the horse does matter, but a crap rider on a good horse is still going to be crap.

I think one of the ideas behind pentathlon was to delink horse and rider by having pool horses.

Not much of a fan of sports that are entirely reliant of judge interpretation. Gymnastics, diving, dressage, even competitive surfing -meh.

😆 @ Y Darc!

DH lost a lot of my respect when they chose to wear teh pyjamas of gnaaaar radnezz and banned skin suits. If the sport is timed, and is about winning, surely those taking part should try and win, not just look good. It would be like Phelps hopping in the pool in a fine pair of boardshorts, or Chris Hoy rocking some Endura Singletracks and an Urge EnduroMatic for the track.

I don't know where your getting your figures from but they are b*****ks.

From a dressage website.

Sports like Dressage often get a lot of criticism when the Olympics are on, because many people see them as bieng 'elitist' and only for the rich. But what I'm enjoying about the Olympics, is that we have people from all walks of life representing our nation, and that, to me, is fantastic. we have gold medallists from wealthy backgrounds, and council estates. United in competing for their country.

Dressage has as much right to be in the olympics as boxing or any other sport. Diversity is good.

Oh crappity crap. Now I agree with mikeconnor.

😉

I don't know where your getting your figures from but they are b*****ks.

From a dressage website

Ooops

I agree that dressage is not a spectator sport for those that do not ride or love horses, but you could argue that it is historically closer to the spirit of the olympics than many of the sports in the current games.

Hmm - I pointed out in the OP that I've ridden horses. Something I've enjoyed, and would do more of if I had the time and money - would really like to do some jumping. I wasn't even arguing it shouldn't be in the Olympics, simply that it's boring. Also happy to agree that some of the cycling events are boring to a non cyclist.

Though I'm interested in why it's closer to the original spirit of the Olympics than the cycling.

Not much of a fan of sports that are entirely reliant of judge interpretation. Gymnastics, diving, dressage, even competitive surfing

Ultimately, this is what it boils down to for me.

From a dressage website.

All i can say is that the website is b*****ks then.....

[url= http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/classifieds/category/horses ]British Dressage Classifieds..[/url]

Despite the amount of individual events though, I hear remarkably few complaints about the judging. In each thing I've watched (only a fraction of the total I'm sure), mostly gymnastics and diving, the people who looked like the top three in each event (and according to the expert pundit on tv) won it. The judges seem incorruptible to me. Yes, there will be the odd screw up, but there are appeals processes in place. How else should these sports be scored?

I mean, whaddya want? A limpics without gymnastics? Unthinkable Shirley.

My wife does a lot of riding and I have started to do a bit.

It is incredibly hard to do but to the man in the street it just isn't clear what they are doing. Still most people don't understand why Hoy was following a motor bike round the track this afternoon

It has a place in the eventing but I'm not sure as an individual sport... still Wendy ball got in

Though I'm interested in why it's closer to the original spirit of the Olympics than the cycling.

Perhaps that horses preceded bikes, and that dressage might be a demonstration of really mastering horsemanship. But, as I said, I don't feel too strongly - more a point for discussion.

(And, like you, have also ridden from time to time. My wife competes in dressage to a reasonable standard, and I know that there is far more to it than meets the eye - as any sport.)

I saw a bit of the dressage, I was really rooting for the horse, enjoying it even. Until I realised they weren't actually trying to do the moonwalk. Surely a horse that could do all that prancing stuff and then moonwalk out of the arena would be worth watching?

All i can say is that the website is b*****ks then.....

That may, or may not be the case, but those horses are still pretty damn expensive, not to mention the stable fees, looking after etc. You can get into track (or pretty much any type of) cycling for a few hundred pounds.

Edit: By the way, I love horses (I have even ridden them), but dressage is not a good use of a good horse IMO.

Despite the amount of individual events though, I hear remarkably few complaints about the judging. In each thing I've watched (only a fraction of the total I'm sure), mostly gymnastics and diving, the people who looked like the top three in each event (and according to the expert pundit on tv) won it. The judges seem incorruptible to me. Yes, there will be the odd screw up, but there are appeals processes in place. How else should these sports be scored?

I mean, whaddya want? A limpics without gymnastics? Unthinkable Shirley.

It's nothing to do with the corruptibility of it - I just like my athletes to be judged by definitive measurable stuff like time, distance, weight, goals etc. Interpretation sports do nothing for me. And yes, on my telly gymnastics isn't part of the Olympics.

You know when STW gets itself into a froth when someone tweets something inflammatory and piss-taking about bikes and those of us that ride them? Yeah? Well, that's what some of you sound like when talking about dressage. Imagine trying to explain the ****ery with which UCI/IOC interferes to restrict bikes & design and competitors per country etc etc etc yawn bore to non-cyclists?

Edit: By the way, I love horses (I have even ridden them), but dressage is not a good use of a good horse IMO.

I am not going to disagree, I happen to work for a company with a LOT of horse riders, i can understand cross-country, eventing, pentathlon, tetrathlon, but dressage as a stand alone?

It's nothing to do with the corruptibility of it - I just like my athletes to be judged by definitive measurable stuff like time, distance, weight, goals etc. Interpretation sports do nothing for me. And yes, on my telly gymnastics isn't part of the Olympics.

🙂

Free your mind and the rest will follow.

Nah - there are so many hours in the day to watch the telly box. I know what I like and I like what I see.

Interpretation sports do nothing for me.

I know very, very little about gymnastics, but would recommend you try this as a taster;
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19171008 ]Cassina to Kovacs to Kolman[/url]

Astounding.

You're not a Yorkshireman are you convert? That sounds very Yorkshire to me. 😛

Surely we're all missing the point here? Jodphurs...

Hmmm, I just had a look at that O'Flashearty. Sorry, all a bit interpretative and abstract to me. 🙄

(that triple combination...my oh my oh my).

I know very, very little about gymnastics, but would recommend you try this as a taster;
Cassina to Kovacs to Kolman

Astounding.

Ah, you are making the classic mistake of confusing performance and competition. I can appreciate an amazing physical performance - a bit like going to a circus. What I don't like is competition based around scoring this sort of performance judging one against another through interpretation.

I know very, very little about gymnastics, but would recommend you try this as a taster;
Cassina to Kovacs to Kolman
Astounding.

Not bad at all !

And he looks like Napolean Dynamite too, so comedy value as well 🙂

Dressage, surely the only Limpic sport with apparatus you can eat ?

Just like cycling has its different styles so does equestrianism. You could compare Dressage to Trials in biking. Not everyone can do it and it requires huge amounts of practice. To look smooth requires huge amount of skill and hours of practice.

The best dressage horse in the world Totalis isn't there as his rider is sick. Totalis is valued at over £10 million!

To coin a phrase horses for courses 😀

Perhaps that horses preceded bikes, and that dressage might be a demonstration of really mastering horsemanship.

Ah - but a lot of the sports we do now didn't exist in ancient Greece. I agree with the point, but not really sure of the relevance of whether a sport is close to the original spirit of the Olympics on that basis. Cycling certainly fits in quite well with the current Olympic spirit - or at least what most people think it should be (in reality it's all about money 👿 )

Still think dressage is boring, and it would be hard to explain why I should find it interesting (in the way I could explain the interest in a lot of cycling events), given the way they're all going round doing the same thing with no obvious objective measure of success.

You could compare Dressage to Trials in biking. Not everyone can do it and it requires huge amounts of practice. To look smooth requires huge amount of skill and hours of practice.

You could, but to the average layman only one is instantly impressive. Oh, and on that basis why isn't trials biking in the Olympics?

To look good at ballroom dancing also takes huge amounts of skill and hours of practice, and I think I'd probably actually rather watch that than dressage.

I agree with convert here too.
Too much subjectivity and art involved in dressage and not enough raw athletic talent.
I'm sure there are lots of skills involved in dressage but they don't produce objective measurable outcomes.
Just because you can compete in something doesn't mean it needs to be part of the Olympics.
What's next? Painting, debating, eating?

objective measurable outcomes

Well, thank Jeebus that we have games that look beyond that particular phrase. Would you take boxing out too?

Oh and while you're perfectly entitled to your point of view...

What's next? Painting, debating, eating?

...there's no need to be ridiculous. 🙂

newsnight raising some very good points about olympic elitism now

eg kabadi, Sepak takraw played by millions globally, require no multithousand pound horses or bikes, ignored by ioc

Sometimes sport is there for the competitors rather than a fickle audience of Johnny come latelys who watch/complain about it once every 4 years. Life would be dull if we all liked the same things, hell we would all be forced to watch football if the wants of the majority prevailed.

Can't say I understand dressage but can appreciate the skill involved. My sport of Judo doesn't always come cross well on telly either to the non initiated but I still love it. Watched the crowds pouring into Greenwich this morning for the start and the atmosphere was fantastic this afternoon according to my wife who is working there. Popular it certainly was.

Radio 5 live did make me laugh suggesting equestrianism could be argued to be the most democratic sport because it is the only Sport where men and women compete in the same event and you can still compete at 71 years of age.

Haven't got a clue about dressage. Gold medal for making a horse walk sideways? Go figure. I think they should replace it with bike-polo (as featured on the midweek videos a few weeks ago).

Too much subjectivity and art involved in dressage and not enough raw athletic talent.
I'm sure there are lots of skills involved in dressage but they don't produce objective measurable outcomes.

As for the cost (which I'm sure has been done before) - other half's latest horse is an ex-racer that came free (to a good home!) from the trainer, but a good allrounder can be had at £2k easily. Clothing can be on a par with cycling clothing costs. DIY livery can be had for £10-£35 a week, feed/hay/bedding/etc about £20 a week, a good old-school leather saddle can be had for £250, bridles start at £25. Competition entry starts at £10 for local riding club stuff, affiliated starts at £15.

Granted it's not the cheapest of pastimes but it's far from deserving of the elitist, rich-people-only tag that it gets lumbered with. Yes, you can spend far, far more if you want but it's not mandatory.

The difference between riding and cycling comes in that you [i]need[/i] lessons with horseriding if you want to have any chance of doing it safely and correctly. Get a jump wrong even at the lowest levels and you can be looking at serious injury, not to mention causing the horse pain by not riding it correctly.

As for Olympic dressage looking easy - that's the point... 😉 I've been riding a few years now, and I couldn't even begin to ride even one side of those horses - they're performance athletes in their own right.

dd - there were olympic medals given out for real random stuff, Pierre de Coubertin was a mentalist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_competitions_at_the_Olympic_Games

😆

Fair comment. I'd forgotten about some of the crazier times.

"Though I'm interested in why it's closer to the original spirit of the Olympics than the cycling."

Most sports originated from the practice of warfare, fencing, archery, wrestling, javelin and running to name but a few. To make the practice more interesting competitions are created to find the "best" warrior. Dressage is the refined practice of fine stepping your horse as you thunder towards your enemy with sword or lance raised as you don't want to miss on a packed battlefield. Also half stepping your horse as you approach a series of obstacles on the battlefield to time your jump. If you end up stationary on the field and unable to proceed forwards, you'll probably appreciate that horses don't do reverse very well. So the sidestep is an essential move, for those who play first person shooter computer games, the circle strafe move? So in answer to dressage being in the original spirit of the olympics, its more suited than you realise, more so than cycling. But that isn't to say its boring to watch, but knowing its background is certainly enlightening.

It's like what Crufts would be like if dogs were massive...well about the same size as a horse.

Dressage is the refined practice of fine stepping your horse as you thunder towards your enemy with sword or lance raised as you don't want to miss on a packed battlefield.

So do it whilst riding at full speed carrying a lance. That would certainly make it more interesting.

I don't have a horse or enemies.

Bloody elitist sports.

Exactly! Bring back the most favoured sport of one of our most identified monarchs Henry VIII, the Joust! I watched some of this at Leeds Armoury last year, it was amazing.

Any [i]sport[/i] that is judged, therefore subject to someones opinion, is dodgy in my book.

Faster Higher Stronger? Isn't that what it's all about.

Gymnasts, however, on the whole the routines are given a difficulty, and then there's quite a technical and accurate points marking system. So may be they can get away with it.

So do it whilst riding at full speed carrying a lance. That would certainly make it more interesting.

😆

I agree!

Exactly! Bring back the most favoured sport of one of our most identified monarchs Henry VIII, the Joust! I watched some of this at Leeds Armoury last year, it was amazing

There is actually a World Jousting Championship, which is a bit 'dolly' but there is also a full-contact championship which some of my friends take part in.
It's bloody scary and dangerous, and the cost of the armour alone will make your eyes water!

No bloody wonder riders have a scathing opinion of cyclists when this is the general attitude maintained here. It's an incredibly demanding discipline and until you've tried it properly you're not really in a position to criticise its inclusion in the Olympics or not. (And having ridden a horse does NOT count).

Me likeee, but then I have ridden 3day eventing (cross country)

Don't think it should be in as a separate event though, only part of the combined 3day eventing (show jumping,cross country,dressage) and obviously on the same horse.

Good to see folk in Joddies though.

Shame it's seen as an elitist sport when the vast majority of folk that ride are just like you and me, happy amateurs.

Don't think it should be in as a separate event though, only part of the combined 3day eventing (show jumping,cross country,dressage) and obviously on the same horse.

Do you mean same horse for the athlete on three events OR same horse for all?

They idea as someone put earlier of all on the same horse is daft.

I like the equestrian events, cross country and jumping mainly, often pop over to Bramham to watch it when its on.

Agree with all the comments stating that sports that require judges to mark them are not really sports in the Olympic sense. Yes they are excellent performances but not really true sports. Given that dressage is totally based on marking it shouldn't be classified as an olympic sport. Just got back from Canada and they were going mad for trampolining as their girl just won the gold medal. Struck me as a pretty silly sport. Could understand it if they marked it on who jumped the highest or did the most summersaults but the marking was bizarre. Ditto gymnastics. Half the girls doing the vault landed on their backsides but still managed to gain high marks. Entertaining it was but sport? Now don't get me started on the winter Olympics - they really do contain some non sports 'moguls' 'half-pipe' enough to make me go back and watch football and rugby again.