[Closed] Doping in other sports

2 rugby players banned for 15 months yesterday.

That was for recreational rather than performance enhancing wasn't it?

I'll comment on rowing having done that for a long time and at a level high enough to be mixing with international (British) oarsmen though I never made the cut myself.

In all the years I was involved, I never once saw or even heard the smallest thing that would make me think that anyone was cheating. The guys who were better than me were just more talented physically even if I could hold my own technically. Bearing in mind that British rowing was top of the world for most of that time then while I'm sure that there was some doping in the sport around the world (and the odd failed test backs that up) it's never been prevalent and certainly not to the extent that you couldn't win without cheating.

For refusing to provide a sample because they knew they'd fail apparently

Sorry to drop wikipedia links on you, but there appears to be good history of doping cases in the Olymipcs, and more generally there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_sports

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Olympic_Games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_sport

Follow the money. That's where the dopers are.

Arguably there's no doping in rowing because there's no real (money) reward.

Very prevalent, theres just as many cheating gits in football or athletics. Tennis needs the same level of testing as cycling, that would through up a few interesting results.

When the police raid on the clinic in Spain (Puertes?) found the blood of about 50ish cyclist, some of those cyclist careers were finished (Ulrich etc), no Spanish cyclists were charged (Contrador and other big names) and not a single one of the names of the other 200 people from other sports were released or investigated. All this with the support of the Spanish goverment. Paul Kimmage has been pushing the theory that Nadal is a user of some sort of drugs.

I disagree nickc - your reasoning would take me straight to football....

From one of those articles up there

Over the years, different sporting bodies have evolved differently to the war against doping. Some, such as athletics and cycling, are becoming increasingly vigilant against doping in their sports. However, there has been criticism that sports such as soccer and baseball are doing nothing about the issue, and letting athletes implicated in doping away unpunished. An example of this was Operation Puerto - approximately 200 sportspersons were implicated in blood doping. Of these, approximately 50 were cyclists and 150 were other sportspersons, including several "high profile soccer and tennis players" . The cyclists were pursued over their involvement, with many of them getting bans, such as Ivan Basso and Tyler Hamilton. By contrast, not a single soccer player involved in the doping ring was named, and to this day, all remain unpunished.

[i]your reasoning would take me straight to football....[/i]

Your point being? OK UK Premier [i]may[/i] not have a huge doping problem, but I bet it goes on, and as for other leagues around the world. But in comparison to US Football, Basketball, Baseball, the Premiership is pocketmoney

Wierdly, I was led to believe golf had some issues. Performance enhancing in a different way, beta blockers and the like.

Not sure it rates as sport though!

IMHO it seems that the major doping problems are in sports where 'athletes' compete on a one-on-one basis, so athletics, cycling, tennis, swimming etc would be the sports most at risk.

With football (soccer), rugby, basketball, non-singles rowing being team sports, the enhanced performance of one individual probably wouldn't be seen against the performance of their team mates and there isn't the element of personal glory involved. Unless you can nobble the whole team there is no advantage to be gained.

There currently is no punshment in British football at least, for missing a drugs test. So the footballers on drugs miss the test.

But in no way are the tests as rigorous or as regular as in cycling so there's much more scope to go negative even if they do get tested.

nickc - got that arse about face didn't I 🙂 The dopers may be there, but the will to find them isn't...

I would like to argue.
A lot of top players have been done in Italy for drug use.
Also, they use them to help recovery following injury.
From the moment there is money involved,there is potential doping.
You want to be that little bit better, you know you cannot train any harder but the other guys are just better, one day, you ear someone talking about this stuff you can take, that would give you the little kick you need.
Then, it becomes a closed loop, you realise how good you are when you take the stuff and you end up in a catch 22.

[i]the enhanced performance of one individual probably wouldn't be seen against the performance of their team mates and there isn't the element of personal glory involved.[/i]

So, for example the repeated fast runs of a talented striker deep into opponents half to score has no element of personal glory, or the need for perhaps greater endurance?..Or no need for a defender to carry more muscle to better tackle whilst keeping fast on his feet?..

I think there's plenty to be gained from doping in team games

Golf used to have a problem with it. Beta blockers if I recall. Performance enhancing in a way that made them calmer, more relaxed and better able to make those long puts.

I think someone got done fr being properly doped in the snowboarding at the last but one winter olympics. Surely being stoned whilst snowboarding should be mandatory?!

As nickc says, plus for the individual in question they will need to be selected over other members of a squad and it makes sense to ensure that they recover from injuries as quickly as possible.

It's potentially worth it for the individual player even if the benefit for the team as a whole is not overwhelming.

i seem to remember snooker players getting caught using Beta blockers when I was a kid

A few years ago, a company based in Oxford were working on gene doping, sorry, gene therapy.
They manage to inject genes in mice successfully.
As soon as the announcement was made, they were contacted by 2 colleges in america.
They wanted the whole football, baseball and basketball teams injected and were ready to pay whatever the company wanted.
This is completely undetectable unless you perform a muscle biopsy.
I believe the company refused to "treat" them as the drugs were not yet fit for humans.
But how long will it be before the company needs money and they want to see how their gene therapy performs on humans.
They believe this "technology" was used at the winter olympics and Beijing.

Is that confirmed or just urban myth? It wouldn't amaze me if true but equally it's just the kind of crap that gets passed mouth to mouth as true.

I was talkingt o teh head of anti-doping at British Cycling yesterday, he was explaining how the In-Competition and Out-Competition tests were done and how stringent everything was, the requirements for the athletes and BC themselves etc etc.

Anyway, Jamie Staff (ex BMX and track champ, now an advisor to the Olympic track squad) went to see a large well-known football club about anti-doping, they apparently asked for "advice". When they heard what was done, they said no way, it's an infringement of civil liberties etc etc. Footballers get told in advance when they'll be tested (on squad training days) and there's no out-of-competition (ie off season) testing at all. Esaiest thing in the world to avoid although I seem to remember a well-known footballer getting caught climbing out of a window in an attempt to avoid a drug test once...

Golf, Formula 1 and snooker have all had rumours of beta blocker and caffeine use.

There currently is no punshment in British football at least, for missing a drugs test.

So why is doping such a big thing in cycling? Is it a self governing thing? 'cycling' takes it seriously so the media go OTT when someone gets caught but other sports play it down and so the media don't bother too much either?

Hang on... Caffeine is a banned substance? Seriously?

I would be soooo screwed then. I can't get by without a cup of tea in my hand from about 8am onwards...

I wonder if any darts players have ever been done for doping

Hang on... Caffeine is a banned substance? Seriously?

I think it's been unbanned actually but it certainly has been banned in the past over a certain amount (though that equated to A LOT of coffee)

you'd be amazed what's on the list, and somewhat surprised, I think, at how many pro cyclists are asthmatic - unusual that broncho and vaso dilators are banned, unless you have a friendly doctor prepared to say you actually need that inhaler, etc.

Don't forget that many substances are banned unless you have a medical condition that would justify taking the banned medication.
For example, to complete what barnsleymitch was saying, many cyclists have asthma, some of them, if you read their medical notes, would not be able to walk upstairs, therefore, they are allowed to use inhalers.
If a rider does not produce enough testosterone (lack of testicles) you can get testosterone injections to bring you back to a normal level.
Saddle sore is normally a good excuse for corticoids.
Also, remember the list of banned substances contains the masking products, for every performance enhancing substance, there is at least one masking product.
It all depends who your doctor is...

To quote Jimmy Carr: 'steroid use leads to sudden rages and atrophy of the genitals - God damn my shrunken testicles'!

where there are people who could gain personally from improved performance there will be doping - in every sport, in every country, since sport began, and it will never go away

Team sports like rugby and football use all sorts to aid recovery. Ever noticed how quick they are to come back from injury. Some of it is very "grey" in anti doping terms.

100% with iDave and srrc

Some of the posts above are a bit dismissive about other sport's drug testing requirements, particularly regarding football. Rio Ferdinand was banned a few years ago for missing a test. As far as I can recall his his ban was lengthy and he missed a major international tournament because of it.

While I don't doubt that there is some doping in team sports such as footy and rugby I'd venture that it's less than in predominantly individual sports such as athletics and cycling by virtue of the fact that they're team sports. Success in these sports is based more on skill and technique than pure physiological ability.

stem cells are being used to speed up repair of broken bones in MotoGP

Since when has bicycle road racing been an "individual sport", by the way?

Rio Ferdinand was banned a few years ago for missing a test. As far as I can recall his his ban was lengthy and he missed a major international tournament because of it.

In Motorsport is is fairly uncommon, not the substances themselves, but the testing thereof. In 10 years of being involved I know only one person tested first hand.

Only time I can every really think of someone actually getting caught was Thomas Enge, who was stripped of his 2002 Formula 3000 title for testing positive of marijuana.

Used to be rife in triathlon.

BigDummy, good point, Cav could never win on his own without a good team supporting him. I believe though that the benefits gained through doping are less obvious in sports like football and rugby (say 'traditional' team games) than road racing, or a sport such as athletics, as pure physical ability is less of the overall package required to succeed at the top of the sport.

The only athlete competing at a high level in ANY sport who is clean, IMO, is Usain Bolt. His performances are great, yet not unbelievable.
Oh, hang on...nah, scrub that. They're all on the pop.

If they tested Golfers like they do Cyclists then the PGA world rankings would look completely different.

There was a great artical on it about 3 or 4 years ago but still I dont think they wake them at 6am on the morning of the final round to take blood samples.

Federer and Nadal were recently interviewed separately and when asked about drug testing they both replied it would be an invasion of their privacy.

Oh really!!!!!!!!

Another well known fact is that tennis player re-inject their own blood (extracted out of season) after a difficult match.
Exactly the same as cyclists: spend some time at altitude and fill your blood with oxygen. Extract it and keep it in the fridge.
Then, when you feel exhausted, put the blood back in your body.

I know for a fact that there is doping in rowing. I went to uni with a former british record holding rower and can confirm that they weren't clean.

i had a friend in semi pro cycling living in france who told me that some boys on the team would have to get bigger shoes half way through the season from all the growth hormone they was on!!

As a Bath resident and Bath rugby supporter we've just been through the grinder losing 5 players this year due to drug allegations (albeit 'recreational' drugs).

One of the interesting aspects of the recent court case was potential confusion between drug taking and anti-doping regulations (e.g. players thinking they didnt have to take certain tests as they weren't specfied by WADA).

Nice try glupton 😉

We talked about this at length during one of our long expedition races. Notwithstanding the fact there is no money at all in adventure racing we hit upon the theory that narcolepsy drugs would be useful to help us keep going 24hrs a day without sleeping. We're not officially bound by WADA rules and I have never heard of any testing whatsoever but we'd definitely all test very positive for beer. And coffee.
I'd be surprised to hear that any top level athlete in a sport that pays proper money doesn't test the limits af assistance.

[url= http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2008/05/victor-conte-la.html ]Linky for Dwain Chambers[/url]

Have a look at the above link, I still believe that Christing Ohuruogu missed tests because of what is stated in the report above

Clubber - he is one of the reasons I no longer row.

I can't really take someone who's clearly a troll seriously can I?

Rowers don't really hold records except for on the rowing machines so that even sounds wrong. And you've never mentioned that you rowed in any of the previous rowing threads on here.

my understanding is that doping comes from 2 directions

performance, make you go faster etc
injury recovery, get you back competing asap which may lead to performance doping to get back to the level etc

I would suggest that without a sport having a proper testing regime in and out of competition with a enforced whereabouts system cannot be declared as "clean". Golf, football, rugby, tennis etc are deluding themselves/ deliberately not tackling the issue

I would also suggest that testing should be introduced/ targetted for teenagers competing at a decent level as sports such as football/tennis where kids develop quickly and the "pushy parent" is about.

I to read the Dwain Cambers statement and the statements in the public domian of the investigation into an athlete and came to the same conclusion. Winning with dopers/ athletes who miss testing destroys a sport from the inside, no amount of Gold medals are worth it. It's a shame that the athlete can afford to pay for lawyers more than the governing body

Graham Noyce would regularly ride pi55ed in 70's and early 80's not sure if that counts as doping.

No money in rowing?

Tell that to Cracknell, Pinsent, Redgrave.

Not saying they ever used but if you were an up and coming rower the rewards are there if you get gold at the Olympics.

While playing amateur rugby league the ephedrine and T5's have been flying around like sweets in some dressing rooms.

I also have a friend at a pro club that is given 7 unbranded supplement's to take each week, every now and again they just get the 1 blue pill and would you know it the drug testers turn up a week later...

Amphetamines and brandy! Well, it worked for Tom Simpson - oh, come to think of it, it didnt really, did it?

Not saying they ever used but if you were an up and coming rower the rewards are there if you get gold at the Olympics.

Who?

Maybe I should say multiple gold.
You need a good marketing manager too ;0)

Clubber - there are records there for set distances in the various events. Never mentioned that I rowed because I became very disillusioned with the sport. 6:30ish for the 2km on the concept 2 at my last attempt, best of around 6:15 a few years back.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8191861.stm ]Footballer Dies[/url]

Tragic loss for his family and team mates but I have compare this too cycling a few years back when a number of young riders died as a result of EPO abuse.

Clubber - there are records there for set distances in the various events

no there aren't. 2k is the only distance that any records (at least ones that anyone cares about) are held for since that's the international standard and other times on rivers are so affected by conditions, stream and so on. But obviously you'd know that if you weren't just trolling. It's easy to throw accusations when hiding behind a troll.

Maybe I should say multiple gold.

Andy Holmes?

Anyway, the point is that rowing is far from being a route to riches - 3 people have made it by marketing themselves outside rowing (though I wouldn't be sure they're all tremendously wealthy - probably not even as well off as a low end premiership footballer).

I work in motorsport - MotoGP - and the riders are subjected to random drug testing on an infrequent basis. I seem to remember that our riders, none of whom won a race, were tested twice during the season on average, immediately after a race.

It can be a bit boring sitting with a rider after a race in places like Mugello and Qatar (before it was a night race) watching then consume litres of water as they try desparately to fill the bottle!

To be honest, there wouldn't be much point in performance enhancing drugs in MotoGP, as it's not an endurance sport and the required level of fitness is fairly easy to achieve.

Whether banned substances are used for injury recovery in MotoGP, I don't really know. All I do know is that having had three very injury prone riders, none of them were given any suspicious substances to aid their recovery.

I've also never heard of stem cells being used to aid recovery of broken bones in MotoGP.