[Closed] Doorstep God Botherers.

Really? My daughter when she was 30 seconds old was guilty of sin? Because your holy book says that she was born into a collective Original Sin for which she must atone.

Utterly despicable.

A baby has no understanding of right or wrong, she is below the age of accountability as far as the bible is concerned.

Being "born into sin" is talking about human nature, our natural desire to be selfish. Good people fight against this and are therefore less selfish in comparison. But there is only so far our efforts can go, God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

 

Nononononononononono. Go read your holy book pal. Born. Into. Sin.

I'm satisfied just to get people thinking about things they might not normally give much thought about.

I'm not going to allow my kids heads to be filled with this garbage. Children should be encouraged to think for themselves, enquire, ask questions, have fun and learn. They dont need this hocus pocus telling them that from day one they are guilty sinners who will be punished.

Cool we now have moved from a thread on doorstepping to actual door stepping which is great. Though I am not sure what will be more scary PhilAmon, here or a strangers door.

Can you answer me a question though.

Why does god want us to praise him ?

I know, its all very post modern isn't it ?? We need to make up some yoof lingo for online proselytizing, cos I doubt they could spell that.

On the subject of shunning, there was a Salvation Army family in my street, awfully nice, daughter my age at school. We were friendly with them, I went to running club with them, got lifts to the Sally Army hall for Gymnastics classes etc.

Then they went on holiday and couldn't find anybody to look after their cat, so they had it put down.

We shunned them.

God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

You don't need god to do this. There are plenty of people doing the right thing who aren't religous.

Why are we to accept we are in the wrong? Wrong about what exactly?

God wants to take away that nature so that there isn't the battle to do right, its in your nature to do right. But first we have to accept that we are in the wrong.

Didn't God put that nature in us in the first place? Why are we in the wrong for being as God made us?

Then they went on holiday and couldn't find anybody to look after their cat, so they had it put down.

We had a couple of older lady JW's come round recently, and they were quite forceful in convincing me that I was wrong! I played it as a bit of a game and had a very polite chat with them on the doorstep. I would have invited them in, but I was only wearing a dressing gown and pants.

They gave me a flyer detailing how 'evil' the rise of paganism in my local area was (commuter belt Hampshire of all places!), and to watch out for being misled by psychics dealing in 'Astronomy' Sadly i didnt think to keep the flyer as it was brilliant 🙂

The genuinely sad thing is that they clearly had been brainwashed throughout their lifes to the point where they had refused education and didn't understand a lot of basic concepts (to someone of my age) - e.g. when it came down to it they really didnt know or understand what the absolute basics of evolution were, or the difference between astronomy and astrology, or the fact that Pagans arent actually evil, and the comedy of a missionary spreading the word of an 'evil religion'...so they got very flummoxed when I didnt stick to the script 🙂

But I did get them onto string theory and singularitys, just to see how long they would continue arguing. I won because they made the first excuse that they had to go!

We're all sinners, including me

Talking to people on the street. Sometimes we have meetings outside too.

How does that work out for you? Do you get a lot of interest?

what is right to one is a step to far to another.

So what you're saying is, you're homophobic?

A baby has no understanding of right or wrong, she is below the age of accountability as far as the bible is concerned.

Could you point out where in the Bible it covers ages of accountability? I've not come across that one.

Nononononononononono. Go read your holy book pal. Born. Into. Sin.

Your right, there is no verse in the bible that mentions accountability directly, but the principle is there, the bible says we will give account for our sins. Can i put it to you that if a child was too young to understand what they were doing, how could they give account?

also have a look at Matthew 19:14

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Then they went on holiday and couldn't find anybody to look after their cat, so they had it put down

I dont really get what your trying to say.

Was the cat old ? Did they get a new cat ? Everytime they wanted to go away did they get a new cat put down.

Im not sure what your saying should they have just left it to fend for itself ? I dunno, Im not a cat owner could it look after itself ?

How long was the holiday ? Was it like a really big one ? Did they go on holiday more often ?

Surely the problem was they brought a cat they could nt look after ? If they went out and repeated they're mistake and brought a new one that would be reckless.

Also why didnt you look after it.

i either tell em that i am in direct contact with god and he's decided that they're sinners, or that i used to be the son of god but now the medication helps me understand that my dad although an architect, did not design the world, just a few sea life centres and a shopping centre in aldershot.

[i]or that i used to be the son of god but now the medication helps me understand that my dad although an architect, did not design the world, just a few sea life centres and a shopping centre in aldershot. [/i]

Brilliant 😆

Could you point out where in the Bible it covers ages of accountability?

It's in the small print, after the bit that goes: "Your soul may be at risk if you do not keep up prayers. The temperature of Hell may go up as well as down. Your statutory rights are not effective."

See, we've had a couple of threads lately on religion, we all bend over backwards not offend, have been some good chats. Problem is, when I come face to face (as it were) with an actual Christian, I just can't believe they actually believe this nonsense.

Christian teaching is very specific. Original sin isnt a status that is earned through misdemeaners, it is INHERITED from Adam, so my daughter, according to your holy book is born that way. What a disgusting concept.

Thought OS was catholic but wiki suggests there's a few new testament religions go in for it in varying forms. Sin of adam, hmm I thought everything was all Eves fault. Pretty nasty anyway.

[i]also have a look at Matthew 19:14[/i]

I've heard his match up with Austin 3:16 at next years SummerSlam is going to be Biblical 🙂
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(I dont actually watch wrestling, any similarity to a real event is an unfortunate coincidence)

(although i know that Steve Austin was called 3:16)

(I dont know why i know that - late night sky TV when i was meant to be doing GCSE revision)

(and Macho Man Randy Savage is dead, i think)

(I did use to watch wrestling wth him in when i was about 10)

We would have looked after the cat if we had known, that was the worst of it !

My mother didn't tell me for ages why we were weren't allowed to be friends any more, and when she did I was quite upset.

Obviously I'm not saying all Salvation Army people are cat-killers, just that family, but it did demonstrate some rather extreme hypocrisy.

And yes I did grow up in a weird place - we had another family who everyone avoided, they were Dutch (or maybe Saffer can't wuite remember) anyway they had made their house into a bit of a survivalists retreat, fences and dogs etc. Their son had a glass eye where he blew himself up trying to make fireworks with some gunpowder they had lying about the place.

Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks, that's where it's at.

Christian teaching is very specific. Original sin isnt a status that is earned through misdemeaners, it is INHERITED from Adam

Seriously, you're as bad as them. Just because he's gay, that doesn't mean it's all AdamW's fault... 😉

[i]Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks, that's where it's at. [/i]

Big Daddy looking for his needle in Giant Haystacks?

eugh

[i]Seriously, you're as bad as them. Just because he's gay, that doesn't mean it's all AdamW's fault.[/i]

[b]Everything[/b] is Adam Werritys fault 🙂

We are born with a sinful nature, you don't have to teach a child to do wrong, but that's as far as I would go with the 'original sin' concept. the Sin itself is ours. If I went to Tesco and stole a Twix I couldn't blame Adam, I'd have to take responsibility for my own actions. I have been accused of judging others by saying we are all sinners, but can anyone here honestly say they have gone their whole life without ever sinning? without stealing, lying, envying? as Jesus said "let he who has no sin cast the first stone" he said that because people were judging others without looking inside themselves. We have to accept that we have all sinned.

1 John 1:8 says "if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves"

On the subject of shunning, there was a Salvation Army family in my street,

Cats aside, the Sally Army are a pro-life, anti-euthanasia bunch who think that if you're gay you should be celibate. I'd shun them too.

PhilAmon > still waiting on a reply here, did you miss my earlier post?

Holy rollers doorstepping me get the same as any other person doorstepping me. the very act of doorstepping is rude and as such they have lost any protection from rudeness in return - same as politicians or anyone else who knocks on my door uninvited without good cause.

Religion is only tolerable when it is between consenting adults in private.

Obviously I'm not saying all Salvation Army people are cat-killers, just that family, but it did demonstrate some rather extreme hypocrisy.

PhilAmon it's not [i]just[/i] that you're judging us as sinners, it's that the big man (not you, honest) has judged us and we're all going to burn in hell for eternity for it. That kind of thing puts me on edge.

Seriously, you're as bad as them. Just because he's gay, that doesn't mean it's all AdamW's fault.

Everything is Adam Werritys fault

😯 Erm, before I get inundated, [b]this[/b] AdamW's surname is WAINWRIGHT. And NOT WERRITY!

But I have been considered by some Christians to be the servant of the devil so I guess you could be half-right. 😀

Which half? 🙂

We are born with a sinful nature

I'm not.

If I went to Tesco and stole a Twix I couldn't blame Adam, I'd have to take responsibility for my own actions.

Grr! 👿 Go-on, it's pick on me day, isn't it?! 😀

I have been accused of judging others by saying we are all sinners, but can anyone here honestly say they have gone their whole life without ever sinning?

Depends what you mean on sinning. If you mean 'did someone wrong' then of course. If you mean 'did something god didn't like' then of course not, silly.

as Jesus said "let he who has no sin cast the first stone" he said that because people were judging others without looking inside themselves.

If you mean the latter definition (against god) then please pass me that pebble. After all, since I'm being blamed for everything around here I may as well get hung for a sheep than a lamb!

We have to accept that we have all sinned.

I don't.

personally i've never sinned. ever, in my whole life.

because i'm not religious and i don't believe in sinning.

i believe in doing nice things or not so nice things, the concept of a sin is not something i believe in... especially as an emotion (envy) is classed as a sin, if it were me i'd re-write the list of 'sins' to include only acts that can be forced onto an un-concenting lifeform, emotions are part of the normal human experience, people without emotions tend to end up doing some very nasty things i've noticed.

i've done some not so nice things in my past... breaking the hearts of many a lady for example... would god prefer i stayed in a relationship that isnt going anywhere? however i also spend most of my time when i'm not sleeping trying to nice things for other people 🙂

you can't judge me as a sinner, i'm too friendly also... i'm not a libra as i dont believe in astrology.

lol its not personal Adam :p if I exchanged 'sinned' with 'done wrong' would you accept it then? because its the same thing.

if I exchanged 'sinned' with 'done wrong' would you accept it then?

But its not the same thing is it? its very different.

lol its not personal Adam :p if I exchanged 'sinned' with 'done wrong' would you accept it then? because its the same thing.

"done wrong" yep, but I am under the illusion that "sinning" is "doing something against god" (of whatever flavour you have).

Quick wikipediaing:

[i]In religion, sin (also called peccancy) is the violation or deviation of an [b]eternal divine law or standard[/b]. The term sin may also refer to the state of having committed such a violation. Christians believe the moral code of conduct is decreed by God (cf Epistle to the Romans chapter 7: 'the law code itself is God's good and common sense' (verse 8 The Message (Bible)).[/i]

Now confused. I'm gay and I *do* know that Christians get knickers firmly entwisted about that and consider rumpy-pumpy to be sinning. I don't. I'm not doing wrong. Or if I am I'll need a quick trip to A&E. 😀

"let he who has no sin cast the first stone" hmm
"let he who has not done wrong cast the first stone" better
"let he who has never been a naughty boy cast the first stone" bit pythonesque

I dont need your holy ghost to tell me I'm doing wrong, I have a built in human sense of decency. We only made it out of Africa (oops sorry I forgot, we can't possibly be descendents of apes can we) because we as a species co-operate and look out for each other.

I dont need you and your judgemental Dictator-In-The-Sky to tell me how to live. What kind of god makes a bunch of people in his image but leaves them full of sin so that he can test and punish them? What is this, some kind of cosmic North Korea?

Christians get knickers firmly entwisted about that and consider rumpy-pumpy to be sinning.

Either way you're in trouble, sorry mate.

*religious ceremonys only, none of your civil partnership rubbish.

i rather like the god types round the door if i've got the time. i do wonder tho if they've got a list of where to go. the last lot, brethren i think, i had a grand doctrinal disagreement with. so much so that they've never been back and i got myself a bible so that i could proper get into it with them some more. on the whole, despite some wacky belief systems i find them a whole lot more tolerant than a lot of the comments above.

i find them a whole lot more tolerant than a lot of the comments above.

Somehow I doubt that. And sometimes tolerance is over-rated. On judgement day I'm going to be on the side of the gays.

Mcboo, if this was a conversation on your doorstep, which as already stated I don't really do, then this is probably the point that we would agree to dissagree and part ways (in a friendly manner I'd hope) You obviously don't like many of the things I believe; all I can say is that I don't have a problem with God wanting an account of the wrong I do, been as I believe He blessed me with the life I have and He has made a way for me to be forgiven, which cost Him dearly.

Oi, PhilAmon: what's this sinning thing then?

Am I allowed to do rumpy-pumpy or not! 🙂

I've got to let MrAdamW know whether its off the menu! 😀

Not read all this but the Victorians went to a lot of effort to convert Africa to Christianity. Now they have come to convert us!
Pay back is a bitch.

PhilAmon > are you deliberately ignoring me?

What are your views on homosexuality?

Fair enough Philip

[i]Seriously, you're as bad as them. Just because he's gay, that doesn't mean it's all AdamW's fault.[/i]

Everything is Adam Werritys fault

Erm, before I get inundated, this AdamW's surname is WAINWRIGHT. And NOT WERRITY!

Heh. Sorry , couldn't resist a cheap joke about Mr Fox's best friend 🙂

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edited for massive copy /paste phone posting error!

Adam, as said above, my approach to you would be the same as anyone else, the bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong too, but I wouldn't speak to an unmarried male/female couple about that specific sin, because being a Christian isn't about cutting out certain behavior, its about confessing you're a sinner and being forgiven, born again, with a new nature, and the help of God in your life to live differently.

Sorry guys bare with me, there is only one of me and many of you! plus I've got work to do!

Phil - I'm really not getting all this being born again with a better nature business. I believe in God, and was born and raised as a Catholic, but I do struggle with the sin thing. My oldest son, who I love to bits and am immensely proud of, is gay. Now I'm sorry, but I (personally) dont see that as a sin, despite what the bloke in the daft hat says. What happened to live and let live, and generally treating one another in a smashing way? Just a thought, like.

And if you do cheat on your wife, or steal, or beat your kids - live with it.

There isnt any way of offloading it, so take personal responsibility for your actions. We're all individuals remember.

Adam, as said above, my approach to you would be the same as anyone else, the bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong too, but I wouldn't speak to an unmarried male/female couple about that specific sin, because being a Christian isn't about cutting out certain behavior, its about confessing you're a sinner and being forgiven, born again, with a new nature, and the help of God in your life to live differently.

So being gay is wrong? Adam must confess, apologise to god and become straight?

You wonder why people hate religion?

the bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong too, but I wouldn't speak to an unmarried male/female couple about that specific sin,

But you would speak to a male/male couple about it, or a female/female one?

Sex outside of marriage isn't wrong

Sex (outside of marriage) is really good

Although it can also be a bit wrong - depends on what you have been drinking and what sort of mood you are in 🙂

We're all individuals

I'm not

I like sex a lot more than I used to like going to church.

I could comment on that mcboo, but as a catholic, I'm already on extremely thin ice 😉

Friend of mine gets rudely awakened before 12 noon on a Sunday, some time ago now, by a couple of Jehovah's Witness who open the conversation with,
'Do you know how the world was created'
He basically gave them Stephen Hawkins ' A brief history of time' ad verbatim and then asked them if they had any questions (which they hadn't) and he then went back to dealing with a stinking hangover.........
I don't think they've called since, do you go on a beyond help list?

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa

wombat - Member

We're all individuals

I'm not

[img] [/img]

careful mitch, its dangerous to have sex on thin ice, your bottom might get stuck like harry's tongue in dumb and dumber, or the ice might break and, well i dont know if you've ever seen an episode of 999-lifesavers but it doesnt look fun 😯

Mmmm creaky...

like your old man hips 😛

Uh-oh. Better get a chastity belt or something. Or a mask of CallMeDave; that'll stop things stone dead. 😀

But seriously, I wish religious people would stop judging me. They wonder why I get annoyed when they're basically telling me (in [i]such[/i] a nice way note, Elf) that I am evil and will burn forever for loving someone. And they are knocking on *my* door! In my book that makes them very nasty people indeed, regardless of whether they have faux 'good intentions'.

Surely there is absolutely nothing wrong with two people of the same sex who love each other? Wasn't the whole point of that Jesus chap about love and not hate? I bet if he turned up he would live in some form of lesbian commune or something and not in a nice middle-class family. 😀

This isn't a polite disagreement - people have had to lose their lives over stuff like this, just so people like me can be treated as a human being, and usually the ones who want to hurt me are religious.

Although you cant see me phil, I'm waving my fist at the screen now. Well, I'm waving something at the screen.

I like sex a lot more than I used to like going to church.

Frankie Boyle-esque joke fighting not to escape...

I bet if he turned up he would live in some form of lesbian commune

Ah, the old 'gay best friend' trick eh?

I've seen too many crap american comedy shows to not spot that one 🙂

Friend of mine gets rudely awakened

Last ones that came here dragged me out of bed at sparrowfart on Sunday. Opened the door bleary-eyed to be met by three besatchelled JWs.

"Good morning sir," they opened, "tell me, what do you think is the cause of the problems in the world today?"

"Lack of sleep on a Sunday morning." *click*

Given that I was half-asleep, I was quite proud of that one.

Ah, the old 'gay best friend' trick eh?

Dagnabit, caught again! 😀

Wasn't the whole point of that Jesus chap about love and not hate?

We should all love one another (within clearly defined parameters).

Don't you fall foul of the Commandments there, Adam, for coveting thy neighbour's ass? (-:

Hasn't happened to me yet, but I doubt I'd want to bother. I'd probably just say "There is no god and when you're dead, you're dead". And shut the door.

Don't you fall foul of the Commandments there, Adam, for coveting thy neighbour's ass? (-:

Depends on how cute it is. Current infatuations include Ryan Reynolds as he's as fit as a very fit thing in Green Lantern and Ben Browder 😛 Someone like Bernard Manning, (if he were alive I hasten to add) would not be flavour of the month.

Don't you fall foul of the Commandments there, Adam, for coveting thy neighbour's ass? (-:

does his neighbour have a particularly fine looking donkey?

No but he has bum cheeks of tungsten and NO piles. At all.

Children should be encouraged to think for themselves, enquire, ask questions, have fun and learn. They dont need this hocus pocus telling them that from day one they are guilty sinners who will be punished.

When I was young my parents sent me to what they thought was a Church of England after school club. It was actually run by an evangelist church, and my dad was furious when he found out. I used to cry myself to sleep when I was very young, terrified that I was going to hell because I loved my family more than I loved their god and Jesus.

I eventually came to the conclusion when I was about nine or ten that according to the Bible their god was pretty unpleasant and it all seemed a bit far-fetched. Got told off by a few teachers for saying that I didn't believe in god, and refusing to pray in assembly.

Still, if they ever come to the door, I'm polite in sending them on their way. Politeness costs nowt - they're not going to change their mind, and they're not going to change mine.

Surely there is absolutely nothing wrong with two people of the same sex who love each other? Wasn't the whole point of that Jesus chap about love and not hate? I bet if he turned up he would live in some form of lesbian commune or something and not in a nice middle-class family.

[img] [/img]

"Still, if they ever come to the door, I'm polite in sending them on their way. Politeness costs nowt - they're not going to change their mind, and they're not going to change mine."
i wouldnt be too sure about that, im an ex jw, and i changed my mind after my best friend from school (not a jw) told me what he really thought of the cult i had been brainwashed by.
it was a real eye opener for me, i had no idea most people felt like that about jws.

Have we frightened off our evangelist?

Quote: PhilAmon - Member

[i]"Sorry guys bare with me"[/i]

Interesting......

My standard response is to open the door with a smile "Sorry, I don't transact any business on the doorstep" and close the door.

I do not get visits from JW's - the local head honcho lives at the bottom of the Close, I have asked him to ensure we don't get visited - and we don't anymore.

Can we hurry up with the rumpy pumpy question, I'm pretty certain gf is going to want some hot bedroom action this weekend, and I need to know where I stand.

Never had the god squad come round to my house, but I've got some questions to ask now. 😀

I [i]think[/i] you might be ok, Emsz, depending on denomination:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality

Let us know if you're struck by lightning or something.

Knock knock

Me: I'm on your list

Them: Look of surprise...'oh I'm sorry to have bothered you, our mistake'

Me: Byebye now 🙂

I don't like being rude, so when they realise I've asked to be put on their 'do not pester' list, they apologise to me and leave pronto 🙂 Except the last guy, who said they just like to double check that you haven't been enlightened in the meantime, but I was polite to him anyway as he works at the sorting office delivery counter and recognises me so I don't need to show ID to collect parcels 🙂