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I’m just watching the Vietnam War documentary and the parallels between Trump and Nixon and their treatment of protests (the type they don’t like) is scarily similar.
Here’s hoping they don’t end the same way, but it already seems to have that certain momentum and inevitability about it
This kind of thing is ten a penny for the tinpot dictators of 3rd world countries in the 60s and 70s.
The thing is that Trump isn't a dictator, he has the same powers as previous US presidents and will be gone in 3.5 years time.
But what he has done though is to expose to the entire world the shortcomings of the United States democratic model.
And the long-term damage to the United States will probably be fairly significant imo as it undermines the US's perceived global moral authority and other nations, especially allies, adjust to the new reality that the US presidency can go rogue at anytime, something which previously many thought impossible.
@binners the National Guard opening fire on the Kent State University campus ?
That’s exactly what I was thinking of Ernesto. They’ve already used rubber bullets. How long until they switch to live rounds?
Seeing as the troops are under direct control from the federal government (Trump) and I think that a few dead Latino protestors would suit his agenda just fine and a lot of his MAGA base would absolutely love that
The Kent State shootings were the beginning of the end for Tricky Dicky though.
Indeed. American is a very different country now though.
I really hope I’m wrong, and I’m certainly not one for conspiracy theories, but I suspect there’s a very cynical and sinister agenda at work here.
January 6th should be a good indication of the kind of person we’re dealing with here when it comes to using civil unrest for his own ends
This kind of thing is ten a penny for the tinpot dictators of 3rd world countries in the 60s and 70s.
The thing is that Trump isn't a dictator, he has the same powers as previous US presidents and will be gone in 3.5 years time
Trump is rather more powerful than most US presidents.
From the Guardian "Since the second world war, only two other presidents have assumed office with overall control of both houses as well as a supreme court “super majority” of two-thirds or more."
Trump still has the same powers as previous US presidents, eg, Joe Biden
The Guardian headline is misleading, he might be in a stronger position with Republican control of both Houses and the Supreme Court, but he doesn't have any more powers than Joe Biden.
But the bottom line is that he is not a dictator. If Trump appears to be one then that is a very poor reflection on the United States democratic model.
Something which the world needs to wake up to. Other US presidents could in the future behaviour in the same way, unless widespread and fundamental changes occur.
Escalating rapidly over there, highways being overrun by protestors etc.
Of course Trump knew sending the NG in would do exactly that, escalate.
Going to be a bloody long 4 years, I've no idea what the US will look like by the end of his term.
But the bottom line is that he is not a dictator
Isn’t he? When you rule by one ‘Executive Order’ after another with no apparent democratic oversight, then it certainly looks like one.
Whether it technically is or isn’t at the moment presently looks like semantics
Just like when Boris Johnson prorogued Parliament over here, to avoid democratic oversight, they look like a banana republic
So much for this famous constitution they’re always banging on about. Doesn’t look worth the paper it’s written on when faced with someone like Trump
From the Guardian, just now….
As protests over immigration enforcement operations continue in Los Angeles, Donald Trump did not rule out sending active-duty marines to California, confirming his secretary of defense’s earlier suggestion.
Asked what the bar is to send marines, Trump said the bar is “what I think it is”.
The bar is what I think it is. If we see danger to our country and to our citizens, and we’ll be very, very strong in terms of law and order
That certainly sounds more than a bit dictatorshippy to me
Going to be a bloody long 4 years, I've no idea what the US will look like by the end of his term.
I think this is the thing,he’s getting going much quicker this time, we only saw how far he would go last time with the insurrection attempt in the closing moments last time round.
The more you dig into what ICE are doing and the pardons for rich fraudsters 🙁
If it walks like a dictator, talks like a dictator and acts like a dictator, semantics/some antics stating otherwise is just that.
I've posted a few times that he needed an emergency to be created to enable him to cancel the mid terms. I kind of had my tongue in my cheek, but I really wasn't sure if I believed it then.
I think binners suspicion that this is being manipulated may well be right. Both the LA mayor and California governor are appealing to people not to play into Trumps hands, it's becoming a them and us already.
Australian news reporter deliberately shot with rubber bullet by LAPD
https://www.reddit.com/r/next****inglevel/s/yoR446wOWI
'National Emergency' = anything Trump doesn't like.
Bending the rules around what allows you the use of certain powers is, again, a long established method of tinpot dictators. Declaring a state of emergency was almost a rite of passage for the sub-saharan and south american juntas.
At present, he is not a dictator, but he aspires to be. How could someone with his warped personality not?
But the bottom line is that he is not a dictator.
If a version of the 1933 Enabling Act was tabled in the US today, it would probably be passed in both houses of Congress. Dictatorships do not begin at the moment absolute power is handed to them, they begin when people fail to see them arriving at the station.
Trump, or more likely, people like Miller, understand that if they cannot influence the result of the midterms, or the way they are carried out, then they will effectively be a lame duck administration. This kind of big public order confrontation, manufactured or otherwise, is simply part of the long-established process to interrupt the normal checks and balances of US democracy and judicial authority.
Trump has long admired Putin, and Republican politicians seem determined to give him his own Duma and oligarchy.
I'm not a historian, but is there a set of powers or properties that define a dictatorship. To the untrained eye, cult of personality, detaining and deporting* people they don't like, control over the media, lack of or suppressed opposition, etc.
I think in comparison to true dictators of the modern era (Stalin, Hitler, Pinochet, etc.) we are some way off, but I'm quite uncomfortable with direction of travel.
*thankfully we haven't gone for mock trials and executions or just straight to mass disappearances....yet.
The trouble is that there are always people trying to downplay the danger all the way up to the point that things are irreversible. The speed at which Trump is moving is concerning, he is not making the mistakes he made last time. That's the whole point of Project 2025. The checks and balances against authoritarian rule seem awfully fragile right now.
*thankfully we haven't gone for mock trials and executions or just straight to mass disappearances....yet.
Unless you have some tattoos and a foreign name. Rendition to a foreign jail without due process isn't far off that. I notice we may even get a mock trial of one of the men who has finally been returned from Venezuela, as they have found some 'trumped up' charges of people trafficking to stick on him.
I'm not a historian, but is there a set of powers or properties that define a dictatorship.
Prof Timothy Snyder is your man. He's had a thing or two to say on the subject and is currently planning a move to the University of Toronto
Have we done the Aussie reporter shot with a rubber bullet by polic/national guard?
The video shows the gun man taking aim before shooting her.
If it walks like a dictator, talks like a dictator and acts like a dictator, semantics/some antics stating otherwise is just that.
So since he neither walks nor talks like a dictator, ie, he hasn't outlawed elections and will be gone from office in 3.5 years time, we can all agree that he isn't one?
Pointing out that he is in a strong position because he has the backing of the two elected Houses simply emphasises the fact that he isn't a dictator.
All dictators have to start somewhere and he is clearly doing dictatory stuff compared to any previous president. Look at dictatorships around the world, they weren't always so...
If a version of the 1933 Enabling Act was tabled in the US today, it would probably be passed in both houses of Congress.
A couple of weeks ago Trump's "big, beautiful bill" was passed with a vote of 215 votes to 214. Changes to the American constitution require a two-thirds majority in Congress.
If Trump's big beautiful bill only managed to secure a majority of 1 it sounds implausible to suggest that he could secure a two-thirds majority to abolish elections. The arithmetic doesn't add up.
If it walks like a dictator, talks like a dictator and acts like a dictator, semantics/some antics stating otherwise is just that.
So since he neither walks nor talks like a dictator, ie, he hasn't outlawed elections and will be gone from office in 3.5 years time, we can all agree that he isn't one?
Pointing out that he is in a strong position because he has the backing of the two elected Houses simply emphasises the fact that he isn't a dictator.
Mid-terms will be called off next due to 'national emergency' of his own making, I bet. So whilst not 'technicaly'
a dictator in the dictionary sense 'yet'... if it quacks like a duck...
Have we done the Aussie reporter shot with a rubber bullet by polic/national guard?
The video shows the gun man taking aim before shooting her.
Yes a few posts up...
A british photograper has also been shot: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cvg7vxx888kt?post=asset%3Aff57770f-949b-4b5a-a46f-bbada0d6a396#post
Changes to the American constitution require a two-thirds majority in Congress.
I'm far from a constitutional scholar, but I'm not convinced that messing with the timing of elections and counting of votes 'in a time of emergency' <nudge nudge> requires a constitutional amendment. I believe these things fall to the states, and ultimately, Congress.
The 22nd Amendment says that no-one should be elected president more than twice, so there's that, but ultimately, the Republican majority in Congress removes many of the traditional checks and balances on power abuse by the executive. They are the ones who determine whether he can keep any 'emergency' powers he takes. I'm assuming he'll declare an emergency at some point soon, and will Republicans in Congress try to amend the existing Presidential Emergencies Act to offer him more powers with fewer restrictions? You may be right in that the majority is too slim to get him everything he wants.
It's very much uncharted territory, and we can expect many of the traditional norms of government and legal checks and boundaries to be severely tested in the coming months.
Also, Putin has the support of 110% of his electorate, so he's clearly not a dictator either.
/s
Pointing out that he is in a strong position because he has the backing of the two elected Houses simply emphasises the fact that he isn't a dictator.
The fact that he is deliberately avoiding the constitutional checks and balances that the two elected Houses can use by declaring fake emergencies and abusing his Executive powers makes me think he is well on his way to being a dictator.
He talks of the will of the people that gives him his presidential powers, but the US system does not work that way. He wants total power/control for himself and is disguising it behind a democratic facade in the way Putin and Erdoğan etc have done.
At least with the pace he is pushing ahead, we'll know for sure sooner than we feared.
Also, Putin has the support of 110% of his electorate, so he's clearly not a dictator either.
What on earth has executive power in Russia got to do with the United States constitution?
The US constitution is quite clear, any changes to it require a two-thirds majority in Congress. Right now that hasn't happened and Trump is not a dictator. Don't confuse behaving like some sort of dictator with actually being a dictator.
In fact Trump's shenanigans in California are more of a reflection of his weakness in Congress than of his perceived strength. His big beautiful bill is seriously struggling in Congress and it is reasonable to assume that he might be deliberately trying to create a law and order crisis to rally support behind his Administration.
Going by the example of the Nixon era which binners earlier highlighted that is likely to backfire.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5337997-republicans-thune-trump-bill/
Senate Majority Leader John Thune (R-S.D.) is looking for a reset and to build momentum on President Trump’s big, beautiful bill after it struggled through a tough week on Capitol Hill.
Trump’s July 4 deadline for signing the bill is slipping away as GOP senators battle each other over spending cuts and other issues in the House-passed bill.
The US constitution is quite clear, any changes to it require a two-thirds majority in Congress. Right now that hasn't happened and Trump is not a dictator. Don't confuse behaving like some sort of dictator with actually being a dictator.
Oh, sweet summer child.
I happened to catch a good documentary about the rust of Hitler a week or so back.
It covered a lot of topics of course but one fact stood out. Hitler tried to gain power initially by going outside of the law and it didn't work. He ended up in jail.
He learnt from that and although he got up to some very shady manipulation of law (not to mention intimidation and thuggish violence from his enablers) he largely gained power, at his second attempt, by working *within* the existing laws and institutions.
Personally I don't think Trump is a dictator in the classical sense just yet. I also think he is too old to be the real beneficiary of being so, should he attain that "distinction".
Vance and others are waiting in the wings though and he's paving the way.
Hitler gained complete power openly, not in the shadows and Trump certainly has the same instincts and mindset.
If only some other posters had suggested similar....
Well if anyone has suggested that Trump's "shenanigans in California are more of a reflection of his weakness in Congress than of his perceived strength" then I haven't seen it.
How about showing me where else the connection has been made between the struggle of the big beautiful bill in Congress and Trump upping the ante in California? Instead of relying on smartarse retorts and ad hominem attacks 💡
Trump is just doing what he usually does. Saying things that sound like the kinds of things said by the character he wants to be. "Sending in the guards" just sounds like the sort of thing a strongman dictator might say about riots. Probably little further thought applied. Much like he came out with "sending in active duty marines". Probably sounds like a cool thing for a strongman dictator to say.
As far as I can tell he'll simply keep doing this until his presidency ends. Outcomes for the little people aren't particularly important to him.
Trump has just said, without a hint of irony ‘these people are insurrectionists and should be in prison’
Insurrectionists eh? Not like this lot, who according to Trump most definitely shouldn’t be in prison…
Trump has big "little dick" syndrome and he's flaunting it through the use of his stormtroopers on the streets, anyone who runs about in a national guard uniform and takes instruction from this president deserves to be outed in public, I'd tar and feathered them by the side of the road for all to see
I think that is unfair. All of the National Guard people I know signed up because they wanted to help their state in their spare time, often after leaving full time military service. The oath they swear is to the country and the constitution and, if they started during Biden, to follow the orders given to them if legal.
Their might be a minority that relishes breaking heads, but the vast majority (I believe) would hate being ordered to act against what are, quite possibly, their neighbours. In this case, they either refuse the order (and get a criminal record) or resign.
It is, once again, the fault of the shitgibbon.
Trump wants to create violence in order to justify postponing elections. this is all entirely predictable and predicted
The US constitution is quite clear,
It is also quite clear about which arm of the government is in charge of tariffs.
Its also quite clear about birthright citizenship.
In case you havent noticed both have run into a certain amount of difficulty recently. The tariffs being a good example where the republicans have redefined what a day means to prevent them being challenged in congress aka the body in charge of them according to the constitution.
Now if the republicans do find some backbone then he would be in trouble but thats unlikely.
This sort of the situation is always tricky beyond overreacting and not reacting and history gives examples of where it fades away. However it also gives examples where you are reading it and going "my god how the **** did you not see that coming!"
I think that is unfair. All of the National Guard people I know signed up because they wanted to help their state in their spare time, often after leaving full time military service. The oath they swear is to the country and the constitution and, if they started during Biden, to follow the orders given to them if legal.
Their might be a minority that relishes breaking heads, but the vast majority (I believe) would hate being ordered to act against what are, quite possibly, their neighbours. In this case, they either refuse the order (and get a criminal record) or resign.
It is, once again, the fault of the shitgibbon.
Sounds like a very poor excuse for which I have absolutely zero sympathy...I was just following orders....., reminds me of something.....I just can't put my finger on what........ 🤔
Sounds like a very poor excuse for which I have absolutely zero sympathy...I was just following orders....., reminds me of something.....I just can't put my finger on what........ 🤔
I'm sorry, but that is out of order. The National Guard are the US equivalent of our reserve forces. Like to see you talk to some of them like that.
A US professor was on the radio this morning pointed and out that the Trump junta is not implementing the same migrant policies in the red states. He argued there is just as many migrants working in the vast farms of Ohio, Alabama etc.
Trump has done OK so far, I'd give him a 6/10.
I find the allegations that he's a dictator/fascist/the new Hitler to be ridiculous. I can only presume that the people who say this are the types that still believe he called neo nazis and white supremacists "very fine people", that he advised people to inject themselves with bleach and still believe the Russia collusion hoax from his first term.
The US constitution is quite clear,
It is also quite clear about which arm of the government is in charge of tariffs.
Its also quite clear about birthright citizenship.
My comment was with regards to the suggestion made on this thread that if Trump put an "Enabling Act" before Congress he might succeed in having it approved.
Currently Trump is seriously struggling to get his flagship policy the Big Beautiful Bill through Congress. It was passed by the House of Representatives by just one vote, now it is struggling through the Senate and it looks highly possible that it won't get the numbers needed by the 4th of July in which case it will fail. Trump hasn't yet abolished Congress.
If Trump cannot get sufficient numbers in Congress for his Big Beautiful Bill then I suspect that he would fail to get the two-thirds majority required for an Enabling Act which would abolish elections and declare him dictator for life.
Of course you are free to believe that unlike Adolf Hitler Trump won't bother with such niceties and won't be seeking the approval of the national legislature.
Donald Trump..... even worse than Adolf Hitler!
Trump wants to create violence in order to justify postponing elections. this is all entirely predictable and predicted
Nah, if this is a cunning plan to sow instability it is to rally Republican support behind him in Congress.
Besides, even with emergency powers I don't think the POTUS has the power to postpone any election, certainly no power to postpone presidential elections.
And what would be the point of "postponing" elections?
I have to say that for a thread in which the general consensus appears to be that Donald Trump is a complete and hopeless idiot who is bound to fail in absolutely everything, there is a remarkable belief that he is achieving his alleged goal of turning into the United States into a one man dictatorship.
