UPDATE: Reviews section refreshed, redesigned, searchable: Go take a look
The National Guard are the US equivalent of our reserve forces.
Not really. Although, mostly, part time their command structure and purpose is rather more complicated.
They are state militias which can be mobilised either by the federal government (for either overseas or use inside the state) or by the state government for use inside the state.
For the internal duties they have a range of functions way beyond which the UK reserves would be used for eg the regulars would be called out first for national disasters and not a chance for civil unrest unless things go really, really wrong.
Their record is also rather imperfect to say the least when it comes to respecting civil rights. Generally well for the integration riots but not so well during several other riots or indeed Kent State.
Currently the law appears to be against them deploying which is a bit awkward considering they should only follow lawful orders.
I find the allegations that he's a dictator/fascist/the new Hitler to be ridiculous
yeah its not like he made up a complete lie that the previous election was stolen and got his cultlike followers to storm the capitol building or anything
My comment was with regards to the suggestion made on this thread that if Trump put an "Enabling Act" before Congress he might succeed in having it approved.
Okay so lets ignore those examples of him ignoring the constitution and being supported by the republicans because... well why exactly?
As for him. He is a drug addled narcissist with zero attention span but those around him are rather more capable and able to point him in the right direction. Although it does have the problem that they often have opposing aims with project 2025 and the maga lot only overlapping in their hatred of liberals.
Double post.
I have to say that for a thread in which the general consensus appears to be that Donald Trump is a complete and hopeless idiot who is bound to fail in absolutely everything, there is a remarkable belief that he is achieving his alleged goal of turning into the United States into a one man dictatorship.
I must confess, I'm torn over whether Trump is truly an idiot. He does idiotic things and as Gump said... but considering the position he holds, he is either a lucky idiot or there is something else too. Could be either or both to be honest.
What I think is certain is that he's surrounded himself with people that are either more competent (in the background and not in the spotlight) or simply 100% loyal to him and his ideology. He doesn't want another Pence.
The deliberate wording of the new visa restrictions to evade court challenges etc. shows that there are competent people in his administration this time. They might even believe in what he is doing.
That's the worry for this second term. What he attempts to do is more likely to succeed, whether it's a good policy or disastrous one.
So, 700 marines are now going in on top of the National Guard? And he wants to arrest the Governor of California?
That doesn’t sound remotely dictatory at all, does it?
Sounds like a very poor excuse for which I have absolutely zero sympathy...I was just following orders....., reminds me of something.....I just can't put my finger on what........ 🤔
I'm sorry, but that is out of order. The National Guard are the US equivalent of our reserve forces. Like to see you talk to some of them like that.
Given what I’ve seen posted online of the NG and how they have excessively dealt with unarmed civilians then I’m not fussed in the slightest if you consider my statement out of order, I’d love to have the opportunity to express my views as to the orders they are following face to face but as that’ll never happen then I’ll talk inconsequential shit on here, just like everyone else is doing.
He is a drug addled narcissist with zero attention span but those around him are rather more capable and able to point him in the right direction.
So why are they making such a mess of things?
I had no idea that he is drug addled btw.
Edit : ^^ The Biden administration missed it trick
Trump is a a psychopath. He has very disordered thinking. I suspect also some co0gnative decline.
Currently the law appears to be against them deploying which is a bit awkward considering they should only follow lawful orders.
If it only "appears" to be against them, then the first person receiving Presidential orders has a decision to make that's outside their (non-lawyer) experience.
If you go back to Trump v1.0 then you'll see examples of generals refusing to act even before President Trump's orders, e.g. General Mark Milley who said,
“No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure." https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/
The difficulty is that democracies revolve around the rule of law. Elections? What the law says. Presidential terms? What the law says. Send in the National Guard (NG)? What the law says.
By invoking uncertain emergency powers and taking law firms apart that have previously opposed him, it becomes very difficult to understand what the law says and it takes time to get a Court decision, so someone in the NG has a decision to make.
Once that order has cascaded down to the squad on the street that is getting rocks thrown at it, the law is even less clear and of course they'll do their job in what appear to be clear circumstances.
The best course of action would have been for the people to remove the need for riot control, stop rioting and remove the oxygen of publicity and "We told you so".
But hotheads will be hotheads. Add in a few national flags, some burning property and the President was right all along
The best course of action would have been for the people to remove the need for riot control, stop rioting and remove the oxygen of publicity and "We told you so".
And form an orderly queue to El Salvador.
Aah the good old method of giving in to repression to prevent further repression. That's bound to work. 🤣
The best course of action would have been for the people to remove the need for riot control, stop rioting and remove the oxygen of publicity and "We told you so".
And form an orderly queue to El Salvador.
And what do you think will happen with an emboldened government?
And what do you think will happen with an emboldened government?
Well, in the past mass protest helped black people get the vote and end the Vietnam war. But yes, maybe this time it's best for Hispanics to just tug their forelocks and trust in the mercy of the white man.
Aah the good old method of giving in to repression to prevent further repression. That's bound to work. 🤣
Rioting isn't proving too successful at showing why the NG shouldn't be sent in. The flags and burning cars are fulfilling the prophecy of MAGA
How about making a peaceful protest at the ballot box back in November and putting an e-tick in the box; nobody can pretend that they didn't know what was likely to happen
If they were coming for your work mates, and you knew they would get no real legal process or appeal, would you just shrug and sit back thinking you’d “done your bit” by voting for someone else?
And what do you think will happen with an emboldened government?
Well, in the past mass protest helped black people get the vote and end the Vietnam war. But yes, maybe this time it's best for Hispanics to just tug their forelocks and trust in the mercy of the white man.
Nobody's suggesting tugging forelocks. How about changing opinions?
For MAGA to get a grip then certain stereotypes must already exist, why prove them to be correct?
If they were coming for your work mates, and you knew they would get no real legal process or appeal, would you just shrug and sit back thinking you’d “done your bit” by voting for someone else?
Two hundred thousand votes in a few swing states, that's all
Currently the law appears to be against them deploying which is a bit awkward considering they should only follow lawful orders.
If it only "appears" to be against them, then the first person receiving Presidential orders has a decision to make that's outside their (non-lawyer) experience.
.. not forgetting that some of the top-level JAG Corps decision-makers (interpret military law) were fired early on to ensure they didn't pose any "roadblocks to orders that are given by a commander in chief."
How about changing opinions?
Yes, there must be MTB websites in LA that folk could post on to express their displeasure.
For MAGA to get a grip then certain stereotypes must already exist, why prove them to be correct?
Do you think MAGA supporters arrive at their opinions after careful consideration of the available facts? Maybe the opinions that are being changed are those of people who wake up and think "hang on, I voted for a job down at the car factory, but I didn't vote for the army on the streets".
Rioting isn't proving too successful at showing why the NG shouldn't be sent in.
Isn't it precisely the National Guard who are now fueling the rioting?
Where is the evidence that state law enforcement couldn't deal with the situation?
It seems to me that the continuing rioting is doing the complete opposite of what you are suggesting, ie, it is proving precisely why the National Guard should not have been sent in, they have now got to send in the marines!
When was the last time any country had to send in the marines to deal with rioting?
As this is a cycling forum, I thought that this cycling photo would be appropriate….👍
For MAGA to get a grip then certain stereotypes must already exist
Wow.
That's one of the most revealing (and worrying) statements I've seen on here.
a cycling forum, I thought that this cycling photo would be appropriate….👍
It looks single-speed and off road so presumably not fixed?
Isn't it precisely the National Guard who are now fueling the rioting?Rioting isn't proving too successful at showing why the NG shouldn't be sent in.
It takes two to tango, chicken and egg and other such statements
Where is the evidence that state law enforcement couldn't deal with the situation?
Why does there need to be any evidence? NG is on the streets and media optics will prove the decision to be correct. SM (with one recent exception) is pulling for the government
But to hear the White House tell it, this show of force is not just the right thing to do but also a political winner. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/09/politics/military-trump-los-angeles-analysis
It seems to me that the continuing rioting is doing the complete opposite of what you are suggesting, ie, it is proving precisely why the National Guard should not have been sent in, they have now got to send in the marines!When was the last time any country had to send in the marines to deal with rioting?
It's about the government being perceived to be right in everything to date; the facts don't matter. It's being framed as necessary because of lawlessness, the fault of Gavin Newsom for resisting a Federal imperative and the development of "Sanctuary Cities".
“The president is forcibly overriding the authority of the governor and mayor and using the military as a political weapon. This unprecedented move threatens to turn a tense situation into a national crisis.” “Since our nation’s founding, the American people have been perfectly clear: we do not want the military conducting law enforcement on US soil” Senator Jack Reed (Dem)
*The emphasis on some text is not my doing, but seems to randomly happen on publishing*
It's about the government being perceived to be right in everything to date; the facts don't matter.
So it doesn’t matter what anyone does, SM will make out Trump is right.
Experience shows that if protesters organised a crochet circle (or, closer to home, a discussion group at a Quaker Meeting House) the authorities would find a pretext to crack heads. And shoot people. Or maybe the Australian journo who was shot should have stayed at home and written a cookery article?
"the American people have been perfectly clear: we do not want the military conducting law enforcement on US soil”
How does this quote you posted back up your claim that it's a political winner?
"the American people have been perfectly clear: we do not want the military conducting law enforcement on US soil”
How does this quote you posted back up your claim that it's a political winner?
Isn't it precisely the National Guard who are now fueling the rioting?
Where is the evidence that state law enforcement couldn't deal with the situation?
Precisely, it's as if Trump's overreaction was designed to escalate the situation. Who is responsible for the continuing protests will depend which news feeds you follow.
It takes two to tango, chicken and egg and other such statements
Who was tangoing in Tiananmen Square or Sharpeville?
Or Minneapolis?
Isn't it precisely the National Guard who are now fueling the rioting?
yes. ~done deliberately to further Trumps agenda. He want violence to impose emergency powers
He want violence to impose emergency powers
I am not sure those sort of emergency powers are of much use to him, would they help him to get his economic legislation through Congress?
Unless you believe that he is actually trying to overthrow the US Constitution and establish himself as a dictator, I certainly don't.
As I've said previously if creating instability is a deliberate ploy then the most plausible explanation I have heard is that it is to put pressure on Republican Senators to rally behind him, many are currently acting in an undisciplined way and Trump's majority in Congress is slim.
I think both the NG and Marine use is almost an extension of his political naievety and his narcisscism.
We've seen with tariffs that he has a really limited idea of how he can influence other countries and negotiate, essentially using a blunt object to force other governments to negotiate with him. This strikes me as more of the same. He deploys troops in a way that threatens people that he sees as enemies, making him look like a hardman to his supporters, but highlighting his lack of willingness and ability to negotiate or compromise with the people that are impacted and protesting.
Trump is just the 20-something kid in the pub that is just looking for an excuse to get in someone's face.
I am not sure those sort of emergency powers are of much use to him, would they help him to get his economic legislation through Congress?
Isn't that the point? To claim that there is an emergency, giving him the power to bypass Congress? He already pulled that trick vis a vis tariffs, so maybe this is the next step, to concentrate power in his small orange paws?
Isn't that the point? To claim that there is an emergency, giving him the power to bypass Congress?
Does the POTUS declaring an insurrection really strip Congress of all its powers including budgetary powers?
I would be very surprised if it did.
Does the POTUS declaring an insurrection really strip Congress of all its powers including budgetary powers?
Not all, but maybe some, along with the ego trip?
Trump is just throwing his weight around to show "who's boss". I bet he wouldn't do this in a Republican state. Perhaps California should leave the union.
Unless you believe that he is actually trying to overthrow the US Constitution and establish himself as a dictator, I certainly don't.
That of course is his aim. To suspend the rule of law and set up a dictatorship at least "president for life" for him
e is almost an extension of his political naievety and his narcisscism.
I think at its most basic level, on his second run at president, trump is avoiding all thing things he didn't like about his first presidency - in particular that of being overruled by the grown ups in the room, other branches of government and even meeting resistance from his own party in those branches.
Even with control of both houses and the supreme court - and with sycophants in the key positions in all those branches - he's still too thin skinned to be want to take actions that require their support
Trumps sudden epiphany with tarrifs is discovering that it's something that a president can do unilaterally- all be it in a specific set of circumstances - a national emergency. But presidents are also able to declare a state of emergency unilaterally as well. So he's framing very specific 'emergencies' that fit around the unilateral powers that an emergency unlocks has declared 'Trade Deficits' to be a national emergency becuase that provides access to a specifuc unilateral power order - he's throwing tariff proposals (and retractions) with gay abandon becuase it allows him to fill his time with 'presidential things' without the having to deal with the distasteful business of having to seek and be granted approval.
That of course is his aim. To suspend the rule of law and set up a dictatorship at least "president for life" for him
Do you genuinely believe that? If so what do you think his chances of success are?
It would be quite an achievement to abolish elections and establish himself as dictator on the back of rioting in Los Angeles. Who knew American democracy was that fragile?
Considering how far he has gone down that road I am sure its the aim. Ignoring the constitution, packing the courts with corrupt supporters, cowing legal firms and the press. Of course its his aim. Will he achieve it? Quite possibly
You do realise he is already running roughshod over the constitution? and yes - american democracy is that fragile. Not that its actually a democracy anyway
It would be quite an achievement to abolish elections and establish himself as dictator on the back of rioting in Los Angeles. Who knew American democracy was that fragile?
All democracy is incredibly fragile. Especially when enough people stand back in the hope that it just doesn't come to that.
I don't think anyone has said he will declare himself effective dictator on the back of these protests in LA. What we have said is that this is another step along the path that could lead to that happening, because he has undermined the legal and constitutional checks that were intended to stop him overreaching his powers.
And no, ICE are not going in as heavy handed in Republican states which also rely heavily on migrant labour.
Trump knows California (world's 4th largest economy) will stand up to him, and if he can successfully bully California no other state will dare to.
I am not sure those sort of emergency powers are of much use to him
The US constitution has [surprisingly] precisely nothing to say about what 'emergency powers' are, and therefore what the their limits are. It relies on the "Good Chap" theory that the President will act in the best interests of the people and the Republic, not in his/her own interests. If offered to him, Trump would clearly happily accept a third term, and I think if he thought he could achieve that, would do as much as he could to bring it about, if nothing else, to ensure that he increases his personal wealth still further - which appears to be his main motivation for this administration.
