simon_g: I've trotted that same argument out in defence of our Queen. It's actually quite handy to have a separate ceremonial Head of State to handle opening hospitals and the like, leaving the PM free to get on with their job.
Not sure I'd want it to be Trump though 😯
CNN poll has Trump ahead - a post comvention bounce perhaos but I am not sure we"'ll see the same from Hillary
[url= http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll/index.html ]linky[/url]
Is it too late to vote in Bernie Sanders? I thought the superdelegates could vote for whoever they like?
Doesnt really matter who wins, those in power, large companies/banks etc, those who control the media and all those non elected civil servants or whatever theyre called over there have THE REAL POWER.
Michael Moore discussion on why Trump will win - genuinely interesting on the mathematics of the rust belt states etc.
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
^ That popped up in my twitter feed yesterday courtesy of Stephen Kinsella (economics lecturer @ Limerick Uni)
A few months ago i would have laughed at the absurd possibility of trump being president but these days i'm quite resigned to the fact that he's going to win the election.
And this after the democrats put such titanic effort into selecting their candidate with the worse chance of beating Trump. All the while shouting unelectable! unelectable! Genius.
Ninfan - that was an interesting read.
Soma yes me too, 9 minths ago I thought Trump was a side show who'd soon be brushed aside.
Northwind, the democratic voters didn't think Bernie had anchance. Hillary won easily.
"Trump Lie: Of all my travels in this country, nothing has affected me more deeply than the time I have spent with the mothers and fathers who have lost their children to violence spilling across our border.
Fact: Washington Post Fact Checker: “Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans.” [Washington Post, 7/8/15]"
Some of those 20 odd lies are pretty tenuous...
Someone like Paul Mcenna (but not him) wrote an article on Trump that made me realise he had a cunning strategy to win that could work.
He tells lies and immediately gets debunked. But the very debunking spreads the message behind the lie. You're effectively getting the opposition to campaign for you.
It's a bit like the 350 million. Debunked in May. Remainers just kept spreading it. People knew it was exaggerated, but they repeated it over and over spreading the Leave campaign's message that EU membership has a cost for them.
True that oob. I think another factor is that for a certain group of voters, forcing the establishment to challenge these lies just emphasises the idea that he is some kind of anti-establishment hero that "tells it like it is" (i.e. without all those inconvenient facts and figures that no one can be bothered reading).
Again I think there are parallels with Brexit here where somehow Boris Johnson managed to cultivate an anti-establishment image, despite the fact that he couldn't be more establishment if he tried.
Someone like Paul Mcenna (but not him) wrote an article on Trump that made me realise he had a cunning strategy to win that could work.
I am more and more convinced,that during their campaigns,both Trumpet and Boris had some crafty subliminal messages running on all the big screens behind them.
Worth a read on the insight into the campaigns, the funds and the structures
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-24/is-donald-trum p's-celebrity-enough-to-win-the-us-election/7655816
Excitement, drama, showbiz, plagiarism — the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.But now, there is an even bigger intrigue: just how could Republican nominee Donald Trump win the election in November?
Australian journalist Jonathan Swan, who works for the authoritative US political media outfit called The Hill, is part of a small, specialist group of US reporters that follow the massive amounts of money that flow into political campaigns and said a lot of it — in fact, a big chunk of it — has to do with money.
'We've never seen an experiment like this'
Swan said Mr Trump may be a billionaire, but his campaign is not all that wealthy.
Worth a read on the insight into the campaigns, the funds and the structures
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-24/is-donald-trum p's-celebrity-enough-to-win-the-us-election/7655816
Really interesting, thank's for sharing that.
People voted Leave as the EU is dysfunctional. There was no positive case you could make for it. Arguing about £350m was stupid as the line "but its [b]only[/b] £150m a week or £10bn pa" just played into Leave's hands. Boris never tried to appear anti-establishment, people certainly voted "against" Cameron / IMF / OECD establishment but not for Boris or any other individual.
"Lie" is not a place Hilary is gong to go, in fact its Trump who is going to go after her on this ground. She has a long track record of saying one thing then doing another plus she's been found to have lied repeatedly about Benghazi / personal email server. She is very very unpopular.
To bring the EU / US elections together the trade deal with Mexico (NAFTA) is very unpopular. Under Trump I would expect major changes in it, perhaps it's just torn up. The view in much of the US is trade deals just export jobs. No deal is seen to be a better option.
Mike you need a short url for that.
IMO Trump will raise enough money. Whether its more or less than Clinton I don't know.
This is the article I was talking about:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/126589300371/clown-genius
jambalaya - Member
People voted Leave as the EU is dysfunctional. There was no positive case you could make for it.
You haven't been paying attention.
People voted Leave as the EU is dysfunctional. There was no positive case you could make for it. Arguing about £350m was stupid
My point was the technique employed, not the issue itself.
When Remainers were still screaming from the rooftop that £350 mill overstated the payments (two months after the number was debunked) what they were actually doing was publicizing the Leave message that there's a significant cost. Making part of the Leave case for them.
Exactly as Scott Adams says, I had no idea exactly what EU membership costs before, and I still don't. I've *never* heard a 'Leaver' say what it is. But thanks to Remainers I know it's a little bit South of £350 mill due to whatever discount we get. The Leavers told a lie, which tricked the Remainers into giving a vast amount of free publicity to the idea behind the lie.
Whether it was a good/meaningful argument or not is irrelevant to the point. If the Leave campaign had stated the exact correct number it wouldn't have made the news at all. Exaggerating the number made it front page news for weeks and motivated the Remain campaign to spread a Leave message far and wide.
If you don't like that example I'm sure you can think of another you prefer.
outofbreath - I think we agree. I just read the Dilbert article. One place I think Adams (and many others) are making a grave mistake is the same Remain argument that "smart people" automatically vote Remain / Clinton. Firstly its not true and secondly it galvanises support for the other side who say FU. Also the net figure for EU is £10bn pa as I posted above, thats current figure and it moves about as contributions are calculated based on relative strengths of the economies (we are predicted to outperform EU substantially post Brexit). So its £10bn and rising
Trump won the nomination as he was the best candidate in what was a weak field. Sadly he's the best candidate Trump vs Clinton. In fact he's the perfect candidate to put up against the ultra-establishment Clinton "brand"
One place I think Adams (and many others) are making a grave mistake is the same Remain argument that "smart people" automatically vote Remain / Clinton.
I didn't really get that message from the Adam's article, but yeah, I'd agree that would be a big mistake. Sounds like Clinton won't be making the same mistakes the Remain campaign made, they're got serious campaigning machinery.
On the brexit parallel a few things contributed.
Shouting very loudly and blaming the eu
Dissatisfaction with the government
The government could not admit that if they wanted to the could have fixed most of the things people are complaining about but chose not to.
On the link just cut and paste it.
On Trump the link does go some way to suggest the difference in the campaigns, how the voters will react to Democrats door knocking and advertising etc will be telling Trump has none of the infrastructure and a fraction of the cash. The infrastructure he will be borrowing don't trust or like him. The senators are distancing themselves. Clinton already has a massive presence in the swing states so that will benefit her greatly.
I would expect to see a lot of trumps most shocking outbursts being played to the key demographics over the next few months. Just a reminder of what he really stands for.
OOB - I'm glad that other people realised that
me pre-referendum:
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and for those who doubt the effect:
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I prefer to think that great minds think alike. 😀
And fools seldom differ
Reckon Hillary's campaign is about to implode though, so the previously laughable Brexit/Trump catastrophe is about to happen, just need pestilence and, errr....the other one and we're in for the big one.
Well plagarism seems very much in fashion
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could almost be lifted from some of the Brexit posters
- Everything is crap, are you scared of change, your scared aren't you scared. We are not scared
and for some light relief
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Trump [url= https://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/07/27/1627250/trump-calls-for-russia-to-cyber-invade-the-united-states-to-find-clintons-missing-emails#comments ]calling for Russia[/url] to hack/release Clinton emails....?
Holy shit, this's guy's nucking futs.
"Trump calling for Russia to hack/release Clinton emails....?
Holy shit, this's guy's nucking futs."
Maybe, or maybe he's just said something extreme to trick you into spreading the message of Clinton's E-Mails on social media...
Oh right because you've not heard about them?
It's a dangerous game. He's a dangerous man.
"He's a dangerous man."
Then don't help him control the agenda.
Sheesh. That told me what I can write didn't it...
Whatever.
Ive read articles from many sources that the Brexit vote was essentially folk lashing out at the political elite, caused by all of the lies, corruption etc. over the recent years. This could easily apply to the US election too. The first few paras of this article pre-Brexit sums it up quite well
"That told me what I can write didn't it..."
I apologise for putting it that way. Of course you're free to spread Trump's propaganda, but I'm free to call you out on it.
What's the propoganda? Hilary had some emails on a private server? We all know the story by now. How many US users does this UK-based liberally-slanted MTB forum have? How many of them are going to read that post and say "OMFG I am so voting for Trump now!"
I'd wager none.
However, I do think that his comment shows great recklessness, a total lack of understanding of the danger of possibilities of encouraging and perhaps condoning such access of US networks. I think it makes him look like more of a tool, so my matter of consideration ("narrative" if you will) is that, on another level/facet he's an ignorant foo' and that the Hilary email thing is not the issue at hand.
And I won't be told what I can write by you, thanks, so save your keystrokes.
How many US users does this UK-based liberally-slanted MTB forum have? How many of them are going to read that post and say "OMFG I am so voting for Trump now!"I'd wager none.
Well this "liberally-slanted MTB forum" did used to have 3 or 4 US users, I have no idea of their voting intentions though. They don't seem to post much now though, I guess they might have been put off by the constant anti-American ridicule and hostility by the sanctimonious liberally-slanted who find such bigotry acceptable.
Yeah, even that chap's stopped shilling his book here 'n all 😉 *
Apart from the grumbling above** I am usually as welcoming as possible, even to Americans and people who come from outside of Cornwall.
So are you agreeing with me [I don't quite know.] that it's not a place where talking about Trump's outpourings is a problem? It is a shame if STW isn't diverse - but how to change it?
*Seriously,. it was lovely when Charlie was around, but he really came across badly over that.
**I [b]hate [/b]being told what I can say. I am "Just a guy, you know" on the internets, that is all. It's worth only as much as you want it to be worth, but it's still my freedom to type it 🙂
"liberally-slanted MTB forum"
Is it Jamba and Ninfan keeping us from being horizontal?
I don't get the America bashing, I have some truly brilliant American friends who are closer than my family. They have different views to me on many things.
I guess they might have been put off by the constant anti-American ridicule and hostility by the sanctimonious liberally-slanted who find such bigotry acceptable.
This is me - I know I am guilty of this both here but also in the real world. I'm not proud because if it was aimed at a particular race, faith, gender or sexuality I'd be having words with myself.
The problem is that whilst I try not to generalise in most things I do, I do struggle with not doing it with Americans. I've just met so many narrow minded, introspective Americans who are comically naive both about the rest of the world geographically as well as culturally I can't help myself. Not just the inbred hicks either - we had a couple people come over to us from Harvard who may well have been very smart but by god were they ignorant about everything non US centric. It made the undoubtedly intelligent thoughts they were here to share with us have zero credibility. It also didn't help that one sounded exactly like big bird, but that's going off on a tangent. The truism about Palin believing Africa was a country just gets confirmed by so many Americans I meet. And then they hang on to their silly gun control laws and Trump manages to become a candidate and they look a lost cause.
Whenever I meet an American who appears to break the mould they turn out to be Canadian!
I internally try to justify my generalising negative thoughts by reminding myself that they are a rich and powerful country and should have the education to know better.
Seems old donald is quit happy to do over his supporters as well.
[url= https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/26/the-creator-of-the-viral-pro-trump-act-usa-freedom-kids-now-plans-to-sue-the-campaign/?postshare=2561469542879678&tid=ss_tw ]The creator of the viral pro-Trump act ‘USA Freedom Kids’ now plans to sue the campaign[/url]
So it does appear to be happening. This time it's not just a Drumpf statement, but as I mentioned before, I suspect he's not helping with the invitation to actually do it.
In the simplest way, leave a monkey in the room with a hand grenade and it's a case of when not if the pin comes out. Go Donald
Trump is still going to win. Along with Brexit it's just one of the signs of the apocalypse.
I would love to dismiss your assertion Bongo. Unfortunately I think you're right.
The end of world will be ushered in, as all us baldies have long suspected, by a succession of ludicrous haircuts....
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