Perhaps time to pull the plug at Fylingdales, and make the '5 eyes' available to '4 eyes'.
"art of the deal"
Here is your occasional reminder that the book of that name wasn’t written by Trump, and is a fictional fabrication.
That's a strange suggestion. Obviously Putin benefits from Zelensky's public humiliation, politically if nothing else, but I can't see how this represents Trump "surrendering" to him. I would be genuinely interested in the thinking behind that suggestion.
Because virtually everything that comes out of his mouth in relation to Ukraine, is a Russian talking point. It literally could have been scripted by Putin, and probably was. Trump has sided with Putin, 100%.
Trump knows he is the alpha male.
You know that "alpha male" when applied to humans is generally not a compliment? Tends to be used to describe bullying dominating misogynistic men.
Trump would very much like to believe that he is his version of an alpha male, the strong powerful man in charge. Unfortunately for him, he's the other sort; a crass bully.
The one good thing about that **** coming over for a state visit is the inevitable orchestrated ‘Janey Godley’ campaign I’ll get involved in. Cops might move on the odd sign but if everyone turns up with one…
If he comes up to Scotland for a round of golf there's a lot of grassy knolls to hide behind for that clear shot
Here is your occasional reminder that the book of that name wasn’t written by Trump, and is a fictional fabrication.
As was his persona in the apprentice.
Its like hiring a walt doesnt end well for anyone unless you sack them during the probation period.
How long before trumps handler "Elon Musk" turns off the use of Starlink by the Ukrainian army?
Here is your occasional reminder that the book of that name wasn’t written by Trump, and is a fictional fabrication.
Yeah but who wrote it isn't relevant, I would really struggle to believe that Trump could write a book on any subject, the point is that he sees himself, and wants to be seen, as someone who can broker incredible, beautiful, wonderful, deals.
It was the same during his first presidential term, he was constantly talking about "deals". And to be fair whether or not he wrote the book the tactic does get him results, it was certainly widely seen as effective in relation to Gaza. When he kept repeating to Zelensky "you have no cards" it was his applying the art of the deal strategy, whoever wrote.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZooWxITHNtE?feature=share
Because virtually everything that comes out of his mouth in relation to Ukraine, is a Russian talking point. It literally could have been scripted by Putin, and probably was. Trump has sided with Putin, 100%.
Yeah but that is just evidence that Trump has sided with Putin and apparently agrees with him on a lot of issues. I asked if there was any evidence that Trump has "surrendered" to Putin. Surrender suggests an unwillingness. As far as I can see Putin has nothing on Trump and he is by far the weaker of the two.
He would be throw around like a rag doll by Trump in WWE.
It’s almost like English isn’t your first language?
I asked if there was any evidence that Trump has "surrendered" to Putin. Surrender suggests an unwillingness.
Played is probably a better word.
I asked if there was any evidence that Trump has "surrendered" to Putin. Surrender suggests an unwillingness.
Pukka evidence of treason by a US president is a high bar to ask, especially on a mountain bike forum. I won't be at all surprised if some surfaces in the future.
As far as I can see Putin has nothing on Trump and he is by far the weaker of the two.
As far as I can see, Putin MUST have something on Trump. No I can't prove it. No I don't have evidence.
interesting article here about body language and trump being subservient to Putin
no mistaking who the alpha male here is, makes you wonder what exactly Putin has on trump?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/donald-trump-body-language-keir-starmer-us-president
An interesting opinion piece on today's White House events by a Ukrainian writer :
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/28/ukraine-us-minerals-deal
Note :
Both Trump and Vance verbally pummelled him for the cameras, for this is the art of the deal now: loaded, hectoring, callous, bloodless.
Trump has had his way. He has transformed Ukraine from a subject into an object, and after this White House humiliation some Ukrainians are convinced that the extraction of rare earth metals on Trump’s terms would turn our country into a “colony” of the US. Still, many Ukrainians would prefer to live in a US colony than in a Russian one, if that’s the choice.
I think that is probably a fair assessment and yeah depending on how you want to measure it Trump probably did very well today.
Oh for gods sake - Elon is not handling trump.
NOBODY IS HANDLING ANYTHING HERE. EVERYONE IS JUST OUT FOR THEMSELVES.
There is no Machiavellian plan - if only as that would signify some kind of cohesive idea as to how all this is going to pan out.
No, what we have here is pure anarchy. We literally have adults with the emotional range of children in charge of everything. This is not hyperbole this is actually what somehow we have let happen. There is a hackneyed phrase, never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level then beat you with experience...well this is what is happening.
We are basically a few months away from the Caligula making his horse a consul stage. Except the stakes are just that little bit higher.
Trumps? No he will continue to grift for his own personal gain for as long as he’s president
i suspect that is really not what was meant. there is a (totally invalid IMO) suggestion that zelensky is keeping the war going to remain in power.
like tj i think starmer played as good a hand as he could have. there is a valid point that europe has relied on the US for a very long time and obama's defence secretary was saying as much 8 years ago. however if there is a chance to positively sway the man you ought to try. macron and starmer have tried. i doubt with any great effect given this afternoon's events. that was a takedown by trump and vance, agreed ahead of time. it's extortion. a shakedown.
i think there's a good chance this will lead to us developing closer ties to europe once more, over defence and security initially and later more. there's a meeting on sunday with meloni and macron i think?
As far as I can see, Putin MUST have something on Trump. No I can't prove it. No I don't have evidence.
Have a look at the above opinion piece by Andrey Kurkov, shafting Zelensky makes perfect sense to Trump. It has nothing to do with surrendering to Putin and everything to do with serving US interests whilst conveniently filling his and his mates boots.
And he will be hailed for securing a beautiful deal for America whilst his adoring fans will claim that he was robbed if doesn't get the Nobel Peace Prize for bringing "peace" to Ukraine/Europe
not sure that anyone came out of this well, once again the biggest winner here seems to be Putin
Ukraine needs continued American support but without security guarantees of troops on the ground putin will just invade again in a few years like he did after the last peace deal
as the article above points out
Trump hopes to hand over toEuropeand Britain responsibility for Ukraine’s security in the event of a cessation of hostilities, and responsibility for further military assistance. Given this, it is by no means clear what advantage such an agreement on rare earth metals would give Ukraine.
whatever Putin has on trump to make him so subservient, i don't know, but if trump really wanted to end the war, he could do so tomorrow by deploying American troops in Ukraine
i suspect that is really not what was meant. there is a (totally invalid IMO) suggestion that zelensky is keeping the war going to remain in power.
I'd not heard this until a Trump apologist used it on 5Live earlier - the presenters were struggling to contain their annoyance
even Jenrick piling in
https://bsky.app/profile/edwinhayward.com/post/3ljbecndbdc2z
It has nothing to do with surrendering to Putin
the humiliation of zelensky is essential for Putin, trump has been doing it for a while, (&echoing Kremlin's talking points exactly when he called himma dictator and demanded elections)having failed militarily Putin wants election he can subvert in Ukraine
Last Leg should be good tonight....
but if trump really wanted to end the war, he could do so tomorrow by deploying American troops in Ukraine
That'd just be another Vietnam but possibly involving nuclear weapons.
It would literally be a war that no-one could win other than by total annihilation.
Since the days of the Cold War, there's been an understanding that no matter what else goes on, no matter who is on what side in any other regional spat, Russia and the USA cannot go to war.
Not without nuking the entire planet anyway.
interesting article here about body language and trump being subservient to Putin
That body language (no expert here but guessing) of Starmer trying to "groom the alpha male" and using touch to clam the alpha male down to avoid being "eaten alive". Starmer is basically being submissive by offering the touch.
In related news spineless ****s and FTSE100 listed GSK backing out of DEI messaging https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/28/uk-based-british-pharma-gsk-pauses-diversity-work-citing-trump-orders
GSK brands - Aquafresh, Beechams, Corsodyl, Night Nurse, Lamisil, various Nicotine things, Panodol, Sensodyne, Zovirax
from the article
In the press conference with Starmer, a reporter asked the US president if British troops were attacked by Russian forces while in Ukraine, Starmer could count on the US’s support. Trump replied that the British were incredible fighters and could take care of themselves, relenting in a generalised way that he would “always stand with the British”, accompanied by a little spontaneous hand-hold, coming from underneath, that took Starmer by surprise.
It was not dominant but nor was it what you’d call reassuring.
Only 47 months to go.
I've never, in all the years I've frequented this forum seen anyone spout as much utter bollocks as chewkw has over the last page. Frankly I don't care if I'm banned. You're an absolute moron and genuinely just need to shut the **** up.
That'd just be another Vietnam but possibly involving nuclear weapons.
the point is that without a security guarantee from America / NATO Ukraine will never be safe
just ask Sweden or Finland
and Putin has had his bluff called repeatedly on nukes
but if trump really wanted to end the war, he could do so tomorrow by deploying American troops in Ukraine
Do you really believe that? Because Afghanistan and Iraq went so well for them?
Off the top of my head the only country which I can think of that the United States has attacked, invaded, and successfully defeated, permanently, is Grenada. I'm open to other suggestions though.
IMO there is no country on earth that could militarily defeat Russia. It is geographically massive, it has a huge population, and defence of the motherland ranks very high in the psyche of the Russian people.
what on earth makes you think i said America should invade Russia?
All this talk of a highly unusual second term official state visit of Trump to the UK this year needs to be cancelled after that bait and switch drama today.
Albeit the offer of the state visit should never have been on the table in the first place.
Charlie has unfortunately had another bad turn of health and cannot do offical duties for the forseeable...
You know how everyone says Ad Hominem attacks are no way to debate stuff like this? I’m over that. JD Vance is the biggest ****er I’ve ever seen in politics.
what on earth makes you think i said America should invade Russia?
Because that is the only certain way that the United States could end the war in the Ukraine, by defeating Russia militarily.
Otherwise are you seriously suggesting that Russian troops wouldn't engage with US forces? Have you any basis for such an assumption?
I have little doubt that it would simply lead to a war which neither side could possibly win.
Deploying American troops in Ukraine is not an option for Trump, and it certainly wouldn't end the war tomorrow as you suggested.
Is actually forgotten what a complete **** Chewkw is.
All this talk of a highly unusual second term official state visit of Trump to the UK this year needs to be cancelled after that bait and switch dramatoday.
While we're at it can we have the bust of Churchill back?
IMO there is no country on earth that could militarily defeat Russia. It is geographically massive, it has a huge population, and defence of the motherland ranks very high in the psyche of the Russian people.
this is also a bit confused
not least because no one was talking about invading Russia
but its population is not massive, for its size it is very unpopulated, at 140million its only twice the population of uk and its lost 100k troops and seen 20x? that injured
it has been fighting for 3 years to capture a country with 1/5th of its population who were armed with weapons several generations behind its own, and despite thinking it could capture kyiv in 3 days ....yer after 3 years they had to get it had to get 10,000 troops from north Korea
You know how everyone says Ad Hominem attacks are no way to debate stuff like this? I’m over that. JD Vance is the biggest ****er I’ve ever seen in politics.
J D Vance is actually Jimmy Carr wearing a beard. He takes off when he does comedy.
Last Leg should be good tonight....
When even Giles Brandreth takes the piss with a Ukrainian jumper....
Starmer is basically being submissive by offering the touch.
it's how you deal with a truculent toddler. don't confront directly, steer them.
IMO there is no country on earth that could militarily defeat Russia. It is geographically massive, it has a huge population, and defence of the motherland ranks very high in the psyche of the Russian people.
*cough* the Afghans would like a word *cough*
but its population is not massive, for its size it is very unpopulated, at 140million its only twice the population of uk and its lost 100k troops and seen 20x? that injured
and it's GDP is smaller than italy's
All this talk of a highly unusual second term official state visit of Trump to the UK this year needs to be cancelled after that bait and switch drama today.
Give it to Zelensky instead, watch the Orange Buffoon explode....
Sweden was doing well as a partner nation (without NATO membership) right up until Vlad went over the boarder and the center-right started getting traction over the center/center-left bloc here. At that point people started thinking seriously about NATO membership and, despite being held up by some members because of our stance on things like, say, Kurdistan not necessarily being a terrorist state, we eventually got membership. That may or may not have been the right choice. If we had stayed neutral, maybe it could have been us acting as peacekeepers in Ukraine.
Anyway, NATO != USA, it is much, much more than one country. We (Sweden) manufacture our own aircraft (so do not rely on F35 or the US), our own weapons (Saab/Bofors) and even export them to the US (See the CalleG recoilless rifle) and have a strong standing military reserve force. We have good partnerships with our Nordic neighbours and the EU to back us. If shit hits the fan and Russia comes west, we'll fight, fight hard, and likely die, but we know that Finland, Denmark and Norway will be backing us as we do so, irrespective of what the Orange Shitgibbon says or does.
Otherwise are you seriously suggesting that Russian troops wouldn't engage with US forces? Have you any basis for such an assumption?
based on the fact that every red line Putin has drawn from patriots, to atacms, to f16s Putin has backed down on, yes
and the only actual conflict between US & Russian troops in recent times was over in minutes and saw up to 100 russians killed with 0 US losses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
like tj i think starmer played as good a hand as he could have
Nowco3mes the real test. Will the European leaders stand together, support ukraine and collectively tell trump to go eff himself? Can Starmer resist being split off from the rest with an offer of no tarriffs?
Both are difficult to do but imo essential
I’m over that. JD Vance is the biggest ****er I’ve ever seen in politics.
Alex Brooker just kicked off tonight’s Last Leg by saying about JD Vance “what a little w___er! An absolute shitbag!!”,
but its population is not massive,
It has the 9th largest population in the world, I don't call that average.
it has been fighting for 3 years to capture a country with 1/5th of its population who were armed with weapons several generations behind its own, and despite thinking it could capture kyiv in 3 days ...
I think you might made the same mistake as Adolf Hitler made and not fully understood the Russian psyche which places defending the motherland on a completely different level to attacking your neighbour.
Hitler saw how badly the mighty Red Army preformed against tiny Finland during the Russo-Finnish War and undoubtedly thought "well Operation Barbarossa is going to be a piece of piss I can see".
It was the single greatest mistake Hitler ever made as Fuhrer. Four years later Winston Churchill announced to the world that the guts of the German army have been torn out by Russian valour and generalship.
Edit : Anyway your suggestion might be interesting but luckily I am fairly sure that Trump isn't such a complete lunatic who believes that he could end the war in Ukraine tomorrow if he simply sends US troops.
Nowco3mes the real test. Will the European leaders stand together, support ukraine and collectively tell trump to go eff himself? Can Starmer resist being split off from the rest with an offer of no tarriffs?
The meeting this weekend needs to end with a clear message that we support Zelensky/Ukraine and other countries are either with us or against us.
Disgraceful scenes. No one likes a bully, let alone two of them ganging up, who also happen to be clueless ego driven gaslighters. Good that it happened before the deal was signed. Just contemplating how much less I can buy from American companies over the next 4 years...
I think you might made the same mistake as Adolf Hitler made and not fully understood the Russian psyche which places defending the motherland on a completely different level to attacking your neighbour.
FFS, no one is talking about invading the motherland, we are talking about helping Ukraine remove them from occupied territory. As the Finns did, as the Afghans did.
defending the motherland on a completely different level to attacking your neighbour
Only you have suggested the USA invades Russia, no one else has. No one is suggesting the USA should ever have troops in Russia. It could (and often does) have troops and other military personal in other countries as part of shared defense, as do we and others.
FFS, no one is talking about invading the motherland, we are talking about helping Ukraine remove them from occupied territory. As the Finns did, as the Afghans did.
FFS read the thread properly 💡
The Idea that the war would end "tomorrow" if Trump just sent American troops to Ukraine is absurd.
Tbh I have no idea why it is even being discussed.
Give it to Zelensky instead, watch the Orange Buffoon explode....
well ive started a petition
need 5 email address to get it going
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/720027/sponsors/new?token=XWTPEBUBTuButCZFQmYR
Signed.
Give it to Zelensky instead, watch the Orange Buffoon explode....
Well ive started a petition
Well done, but you wait until binners hears that you have started a petition criticizing Starmer's diplomatic choices.
Expect to be told why offering an unprecedented second state visit to Donald Trump is absolutely the right thing to do and that if you don't support it you are a miserable joyless placard waving 6th former, or something.
Signed
That meeting was one of the most unattractive spectacles I have ever had the misfortune to witness. Trump and Vance are like primary school bullies. It's just a pity Trump managed to get out of " detention" for his previous offences.
It's going to be really difficult for European leaders now to unite and strongly support Zelensky and Ukraine without antagonising the narcissist in the Whitehouse any more than we have to because any tariff dispute with America is likely to hurt us more than him.
Signed the petition too
I wonder if there will be the same opposition to Trump's next state visit as there was last time ;
David Lammy, the Labour MP for Tottenham, warned that African Americans were afraid of the presidency, saying Trump was supported by the Ku Klux Klan and had white supremacists in his inner circle.
Although perhaps some people feel that second time round Trump isn't quite as bad now as he was the first time?
I’m in on that petition
Signed
Although I didn't see the wording until after I had signed it!
Nowco3mes the real test. Will the European leaders stand together, support ukraine and collectively tell trump to go eff himself? Can Starmer resist being split off from the rest with an offer of no tarriffs?
Both are difficult to do but imo essential
i don't think standing with europe and supporting ukraine require telling trump to go **** himself. my feeling is that europe continuing to support ukraine and thereby feeding money in to the US' defence contractors to some extent will be just fine. it's a win/win for the US short term. longer term i think europe (including UK) will look to sourcing our own weapons platforms and will diverge from the US defence infrastructure in the same way the french have. increased trade and cooperation with the EU. not the way any of us would have wanted it, but every silver lining has a cloud. (-:
The one good thing about that **** coming over for a state visit is the inevitable orchestrated ‘Janey Godley’ campaign I’ll get involved in. Cops might move on the odd sign but if everyone turns up with one…
I don't expect him to visit Britain or Western Europe any time soon as he won't be safe anywhere outside the American Embassies.
The good news is that we can afford eggs over here.
Petition signed.
It's going to be really difficult for European leaders now to unite and strongly support Zelensky and Ukraine without antagonising the narcissist in the Whitehouse any more than we have to because any tariff dispute with America is likely to hurt us more than him.
Its a clear choice. No fence sitting. Its either kowtow to trump or support Ukraine. My fear is Starmer allows himself / the uk to be split offfrom the rest of Europe. My hope is we get a clear united European position ( apart from Hungary).
I agree tja . It's a clear choice we support Ukraine and make that very clear to Trump as quietly and calmly as possible
Copied from a Twitter link
The reporter who asked Zelensky if he owned a suit, Brian Glenn, is from the pro-Trump network Real America’s Voice and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. He got one of the rare Oval Office interviewer spots after the White House blocked the Associated Press
There is no choice between the USA and Ukraine here. Trump has said it is for Europe to defend itself, so when/if European leaders gather today and announce their support for Ukraine it will be taken by much of the media as a win for Trump rather than a rebuttal. Or course what it really is will be apparent to us all… another strategic win for Putin. The West just keeps handing them to him, delivered by right wing populist movements in so many countries, not least our own.
Trumos media pals may play it as a win but it is not. Its another damaging step in US isolation and loss of power.
Trump has said it is for Europe to defend itself, so when/if European leaders gather today and announce their support for Ukraine it will be taken by much of the media as a win for Trump rather than a rebuttal.
Yep, it'll allow Trump to stand there and say "I told the Europeans to up their game and they have, look at me being all strong".
On the other hand, there's no easy way out for anybody that doesn't give Trump that narrative.
Petition signed.
Trumps actions are isolating the US from the rest of "the West". He can have America first if he wants it. Europe needs to come together for it's own security if it cannot rely on fickle American support going forward - a hard lesson learned.
The wording after this weekends meeting needs to be absolutely clear. Maybe something like this
Just watched a little more of the ‘meeting’ this morning.
obviously was just a complete setup including the press.
Complete bullying BS.
Trump sees this whole thing as a business deal and his chance to get a part of history (because he failed last time to do anything)
because he failed last time to do anything
On the international stage at least Trump did manage to get the Abraham Accords signed. Personally I'm not a fan but many consider that it serves United States interests in the Middle East, certainly Joe Biden was a fan and tried (and failed) to include Saudi Arabia.
Trump supporters also saw pulling the United States out of Afghanistan as a win.
I've considered that disgraceful spectacle for a while now.
The seating is set out the same for the visits of President Macron and PM Starmer and the cameras stay on President Trump and guest the same, until it begins to get heated around 35 mins in, so I don't believe that it's a tag-team set-up
President Zelensky can be blunt, we've heard it before, but there's absolutely no empathy shown either by Trump or VP Vance because he objected to Trump's wish for a ceasefire.
Zelensky wants a lasting peace and it's surely understandable for someone speaking in a second language and who must be battered and exhausted after more than three years of invasion to be a little blunt.
I did wonder if there was some notion of breaking Zelensky both personally and publicly for the people of Ukraine to force a change of President to someone who would acquiesce to the US, but I saw anger rather than a plan. Trump reverted to his beliefs of "$350bn" and "you’re not acting at all thankful" (Zelensky has been thankful on many occasions before and the last time that Trump gave Ukraine anything was in his first presidency), etc.
This post from the aptly-named winston sums it up for me
There is no Machiavellian plan - if only as that would signify some kind of cohesive idea as to how all this is going to pan out.
It's notable that Marco Rubio, the US Secretary of State, just sat without a word for either side
From Reuters
DENMARK'S FOREIGN MINISTER LARS LOKKE RASMUSSEN ON FACEBOOK
"It's a punch in the gut for Ukraine. ... There must be room for robust conversations - even between friends. But when it happens in front of rolling cameras like that, there is only one winner. And he sits in the Kremlin."JOHANN WADEPHUL, DEPUTY OF CONSERVATIVE PARTY-GROUP IN GERMAN PARLIAMENT, THE PARTY OF INCOMING CHANCELLOR FRIEDRICH MERZ, ON X
"The scenes from the White House are shocking. How can you stab the president of an invaded country in the back like this? Free Europe will not betray Ukraine!" https://www.reuters.com/world/world-reacts-zelenskiy-trump-oval-office-clash-2025-02-28/
Rubio has commented. He’s doubled down on the Trump/Vance line. Claiming a man repeatedly saying thank you hasn’t said thank you. Repeat your lines… make your own truths. The Putin approach is in full effect in the White House.
EDIT: and on Rubio…
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/rubio-zelensky-apology-trump-cnntv/index.html
Only 47 months to go.
Yep more than enough time to make sure that everything/everyone is in place (or not in place) to ensure that the election isn’t stolen this time round 🙁
The masks are off and we are seeing how Trump and JD operate.
Unfortunately, all Europe can offer at this point is warm words. If Trump cuts off US support (and Musk turns off Starlink) Putin will be in Kiev long before Europe are able to fill the gap.
Of course, China could offer to guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for a chunk if its minerals. What should we do then?
more like 24 months, If the Republicans carry on like they have been - slashing benefits like Medicaid (that many of their supporters rely on) they're going to be killed in the mid-terms, and if the Dems regain control of the House or the Senate or even both, that's the Trump presidency chopped of at the knees.
Kimbers' petition is now in for moderation, so can't be signed any more for a while until its released again, apparently.
In the meantime, with respect to this idea
Just contemplating how much less I can buy from American companies over the next 4 years...
I was in GoOutdoors the other day, idly browsing, and saw a MSR Whisperlite stove. Always fancied one of those. Then I spotted Made in USA on the bo, so it went straight back on the shelf. Bollocks to 'em.