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Molgrips posted that a while ago
@seaso thanks for the Gettysberg link. Intersting that on his 60 Minutes interview the one topic he was focused on was the press reporting. He said social media was very important as it allowed him to counteract that directly. Plenty of discussion on cbsnews.com although not yet the entire interview.
@kimbers it's hard to give the bottom 20% a big share of tax cuts as they pay so little already. Tax cuts will always have a bias towards those who earn the most. Also Americans who voted for Trump weren't asking for tax cuts they where asking for jobs and opportunity. America has a very different attitude towards welfare, they don't want it they want work and better paid work
He said social media was very important as it allowed him to counteract that directly
indeed the guy who thinks sandy hook massacre was a liberal conspiracy and the families of the dead the children are faking it had a phone call from the [s]Grand Wizard[/s] President Elect
http://www.infowars.com/donald-trump-thanks-infowarriors-for-the-win/
Except Jamba it was the over $50kers who voted for Trump not the unders. Allegedly
@kimbers it's hard to give the bottom 20% a big share of tax cuts as they pay so little already. Tax cuts will always have a bias towards those who earn the most
The libdems managed with their increase of the tax free threshold to £10k. So clearly it's possible.
Old is that really true though, if you are on a £60k the tax threshold increase helps you more in terms of pounds pence than someone on £20k.
@igm many high earners vote GOP, traditionally strong ground for them. Where Trump won it was the white working class (ie sub $50k) and the fact that Hispanics and Black voters did not turn out for Hillary as they had for Obama.
Molgrips posted that a while ago
I'm calling that a win.
he claims to be a maths graduate working in finance 😯Old is that really true though, if you are on a £60k the tax threshold increase helps you more in terms of pounds pence than someone on £20k.
Top trolling
Do some maths will you and get back to us 😆
Ok I earn 20 k you earn 60k the tax rate is 50% - i am keeping it easy for you- with no threshold
20k = 10 k tax
60k = 30k tax
Increase threshold to 10k
20k = 5k- ie 50 % of 10k- 25% overall tax rate
60k = 25k K or 50% of 50K-
Therefore is 25k of 60 K more or less than 25% of 20 k?
What is the savings gain for the wealthy ones over the poorer ones?
Please show your workings just for the giggle.
You really do have no area of expertise and nothing you cannot get wrong.
You are the walking embodiment of Poes law
jambalaya - Member
@seaso thanks for the Gettysberg link. Intersting that on his 60 Minutes interview the one topic he was focused on was the press reporting. He said social media was very important as it allowed him to counteract that directly. Plenty of discussion on cbsnews.com although not yet the entire interview.
Aye I seen the interview late last night it was on youtube for a while, seems to be gone now.
tbh it was a fairly weak friendly get to know trump interview, as you'd expect for a first interview. Not really telling us much or too probing..
@junkyard.
But tax doesn't work like your example. There's always banding.
£20,000 paying 20% tax with no allowance pays £4000
Give a £10000 allowance and his tax bill drops to £2000 or 10%.
£60000 typically without an allowance pays £8000 on £40000. Then say 40% on £20000 another £8000 so 26.66% of income. Give the higher earner a £10000 allowance and his tax drops by £2000 and is now 23.33% of income.
In % terms of tax payed the lower earner's tax position is massively more improved.
Thanks taxi, I couldn't be bothered to reply.
Campaigners don't like to talk about percentage benefit as that doesn't suit their agenda.
Junkyard - given that tax rates are progressive, he will have a point in absolute terms and possibly relative terms.
Jamba - I am aware of the tendency of th Grand Old Party or even the Bull Moose Party to attract higher earners. My pint was that Trumps voters are still overall those who will benefit from tax breaks
The libdems managed with their increase of the tax free threshold to £10k. So clearly it's possible.
Old is that really true though, if you are on a £60k the tax threshold increase helps you more in terms of pounds pence than someone on £20k.
This isn't how it worked under the coalition. Each raising of the threshold was paired to a lowering of the higher rate tax bands, so that the better paid did not benefit in the way you suggest.
Although, since the country decided to destroy the LibDems, the new government was free to change all that, so that they could announce policies that sounded like they helped the worse paid, but helped far more the higher paid. See also all the mortgage games they played.
There ARE always ways to change tax rules to help the worse paid, rather than the higher paid, but it requires a political will to do so. Neither our government, or the next USA government, have that will, even if they have the rhetoric.
Both the Cameron, and now the May, governments have been brilliant at taking the language and promises of what used to be centrist (or perhaps even left) policies, and hiding a redistribution upwards in the details of actual policies. Genius really. Mate that to some tough sounding anti-immigrant solgans and policies, and rule for a generation … unless people decide to scrutinise and challenge … but 2016 might have seen that way of thinking off for a while…
Anyway, the details of the LibDem policy, and the way it was implemented before we booted them out of government, did make sure that it wasn't higher earners that benefited, which is why more people than ever started paying higher rate tax, even if they hadn't had a pay rise. Don't worry though comfy off people… the Tories are fixing that for you… the government is squarely on your side now.
On a lighter note
https://www.theguardian.com/global/shortcuts/2016/nov/14/how-joe-biden-became-the-us-meme-in-chief
and they both have the same amount of extra money so his point about who saved most was still not true and your post proved the same as me with a less simplistic scenarioIn % terms of tax payed the lower earner's tax position is massively more improved.
they both saved the same amount and he claimed
this is manifestly false as they save the same amount and percentages , arguably, show who saved the most, which is still not the higher earner.Old is that really true though, if you are on a £60k the tax threshold increase helps you more in terms of pounds pence than someone on £20k.
Hence you did notCampaigners don't like to talk about percentage benefit as that doesn't suit their agenda
As i said the living embodiment of Poes Law- you did not you mentioned pounds and pence silly not percentages which dont actually support your point re who saves most.
I really cannot tell what is trolling and what is what you mean. Top marks
On reflection I figure no one can do that without effort.
Nicely explained there by Kelvin.
big_n_daft those are definietly amusing but slightly less so the third time posted on this thread 😉
Don't worry though comfy off people… the Tories are fixing that for you… the government is squarely on your side now.
Interesting post kelvin. The Tories would have very far to go to put the tax take back to where it was in 2006. What with personal tax changes under PAYE and the new stamp duty bands (introduced by Osbourne). As I posted before I think you'll even less top paying jobs going paye. All the tech guys are already finding other ways.
Farage trying very hard to get himself a job in the government.
Maybe he should try to be elected first?
Farage is an MEP for the South East, elected till 2019. He is trying to get a job with the US administration it seems not the UK Government. I am really hoping he can be the US's envoy to the EU, in reality he'll probably just have advisor status but all the same that's as funny as hell.
There's been alot of chat on these political threads accusing Labour of anti-semitism. I wonder how those accusers and defenders of Trump feel about Stephen Bannon? I await the hypocrisy... 🙄
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Its OK the breitbart white supremacist guy Trump has put on staff has said any deals with the UK- May has to go through Farage, what could possibly go wrong.
funny, sad and true....
MEP is nothing to do with relationship with USA, he should concentrate on serving the people from the south East in the EU parliament. That is what he has been elected for.
He is not doing so well when trying to become an mp.
Not wading through all the crap above, but has anyone mentioned Steve Bannon yet?
yep, think we did the creationist in charge of education
Bump...
There's been alot of chat on these political threads accusing Labour of anti-semitism. I wonder how those accusers and defenders of Trump feel about Stephen Bannon? I await the hypocrisy...
Jose Rodriguez is an interesting one as well. Shows Trump is all cuddly and inclusive after all. 😉
Nigel [i]"Big fan of Game of Throne's Petyr Baelish" [/i]Farage.
He'll be trying to open his own brothel next, only then will the transformation be complete.
If that who Farage is then I think we know who Trump is playing
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I reckon we're onto something here 🙂
Although, with that hair he's definitely one of Cersei and Jaime's offspring
bannon is as racist as pence is ignorant....
There's been alot of chat on these political threads accusing Labour of anti-semitism. I wonder how those accusers and defenders of Trump feel about Stephen Bannon? I await the hypocrisy...
If anyone in the Trump organisation is found guilty of promoting anti-semitism they will be kicked out. No doubt in my mind. As someone who has had nasty divorce I wouldn't assign a shred of credibility to anything Bannon ex-wife said. I have not seen any real evidence. Trump's head of fund raising is a guy I sat next to for 3 years when working in NY, he is very much Jewish. As an aside from what I know/read a big majority of Jewish people voted for Clinton. Trump made some high profile statements like moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem and it's believed he will back away from Obama's critism of West Bank settlements (Obama has had the worst relationship with Israel of any President for decades)
and it's believed he will back away from Obama's critism of West Bank settlements (Obama has had the worst relationship with Israel of any President for decades)
ah so back to pandering to Israel again...
Haha here we go....let's blame angry little wifey...priceless. 😀
If anyone in the Trump organisation is found guilty of promoting anti-semitism they will be kicked out. No doubt in my mind.
cast iron jambafact #183
lets see what bannons website has to say about jews
or the type of people his website is home to
Wow, lefties jumping up and down accusing people of 'ist' and 'ism'
Keep going, after all, it's not like that hasn't worked out well for you so far in recent campaigns, is it?
Wow ninfan getting excited and loving the racists...
"If anyone in the Trump organisation is found guilty of promoting anti-semitism they will be kicked out."
Really?
"No doubt in my mind."
Ah.
"As someone who has had nasty divorce I wouldn't assign a shred of credibility to anything Bannon ex-wife said."
Erm...
"I have not seen any real evidence."
I didn't know you were a lawyer on the divorce case?
"Trump made some high profile statements like moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem"
I think the Chinese might have something to say about that:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.698833
Keep going, after all, it's not like that hasn't worked out well for you so far in recent campaigns, is it?
yes racism should be ignored at all costs if its politically expedient 🙄
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cast iron jambafact
I said "no doubt in my mind" so I yes, cast iron I know what is in my mind.
Expect some responce from Trump's team and lots of pro-Israel action over the next 4 years. From what I know/read Jews voted for Clinton as they are lifelong Democrats, many however did not trust her as she says whatever she thinks people want to hear.
Mike. No one in the US administration is pandering to Israel they are just doing the right thing supporting the country. Don't forget Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon tried to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
"cast iron I know what is in my mind."
Wasn't it 'Cast Lead'?
"Don't forget Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon tried to wipe Israel off the face of the earth."
It's an interesting interpretation of facts...
Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem would be a massively provocative step, it's not what the area needs. Bit like building housing estates in occupied lands...
I'm going to leave what has been done a 1000 times before here but the middle east doesn't need favourites it needs a strong and impartial way forward.
@clod did Brannon spray that ? Did an anti-Trump supporter spray that ? Like I said earlier re another photo Portland is very strongly Democrat. Swastikkas and accusations of being Nazis is abuse thrown at Trump. It's hard to know whomsorayed it.
You really should watch those videos posted earlier, opponents of Trump have got it totally wrong with the racist/Nazi stuff and have helped Trump win by failing to engage in the actual issues. There are lessons for UK and Europe too.
Swastikkas and accusations of being Nazis is abuse thrown at Trump. It's hard to know whomsorayed it.
yeah of course 🙄
warning, sweary ...
You really should watch those videos posted earlier, opponents of Trump have got it totally wrong with the racist/Nazi stuff and have helped Trump win by failing to engage in the actual issues. There are lessons for UK and Europe too.
Well shut down the Mail/Express, prosecute the hate spreaders, bring up those spreading lies about immigration on fraud/misrepresentation and libel charges and start putting out the factual message rather than the one based on lies and hate.
It's an interesting interpretation of facts...
It would be total denial to have any other interpretation. As many Jews where forced to leave Morocco, Tunisia etc as Arabs where forced to leave during the formation of Israel (roughly 800,000 each). Today there are zero Jewish refugees but 5 million Palestinians ?
I think the Trump administration will prove much more supportive of Israel than Obama/Democrats have been (and even they signed a $38bn military support agreement this summer). The anti-Semitism accusation will be dealt with that way.
Clod this is my point exactly, a Trump opponent calling him a Nazi - that's as clear as day the correct interpretation of that graffiti.
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Today there are zero Jewish refugees but 5 million Palestinians ?
Hell I wonder why, I guess most people here would happily move to Palestine just can't see why they don't like it...
the bit to remember is both sides are not helping and both should be sat in the corner for quite a while
"It would be total denial to have any other interpretation."
Oh it would, would it? Right.
"Today there are zero Jewish refugees but 5 million Palestinians ?"
All that tells you is that a state for those Jewish refugees was created, but no provision made for the Palestinians (millions of whom still live in other countries, many of whom cannot return to their homeland). And Palestinians are still being forced from their homes by settlers, backed by the IDF, in a manner which has been deemed illegal by the UN, yet continues to happen. Obama at least tried to halt this process, and was met with vehement hate from those supporting the apartheid. That South Africa, a nation once crippled by apartheid, has stated it refuses to accept the state of Israel until a return to pre-1967 borders, speaks volumes.
"Clod this is my point exactly, a Trump opponent calling him a Nazi - that's as clear as day the correct interpretation of that graffiti."
Wow.
Anyone else?
Maybe it's a racist trump supporter with Nazi tendencies? Occams razor and all that. I know it's a shocking idea but I'm just putting it out there.....although going by standard trump logic it's the windows fault.
Wonder if any of you Americans think Berni Saunders would have done better than Clinton? since the dems seam to have backed the wrong horse.
"Clod this is my point exactly, a Trump opponent calling him a Nazi - that's as clear as day the correct interpretation of that graffiti."
some men have crystal balls others just have hairy ones....
mikewsmithWell shut down the Mail/Express, prosecute the hate spreaders, bring up those spreading lies about immigration on fraud/misrepresentation and libel charges and start putting out the factual message rather than the one based on lies and hate.
LOL. How may times - NO. Let people say what they want and judge them on what they say. Arresting people who disagree with your opinion....interesting.
The point being to bring them up on the things they say, have them stand in court and defend the lies, let them bring the facts and stand up and try and prove them.
It is currently a crime to incite, that is what some are trying to do.
The point being to bring them up on the things they say, have them stand in court and defend the lies, let them bring the facts and stand up and try and prove them.
It is currently a crime to incite, that is what some are trying to do.
And just think about the propaganda victory they gain when they are found not guilty
See Nick Griffin for a perfect example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6135060.stm
mikewsmith
It is currently a crime to incite, that is what some are trying to do.
If I'm standing outside a synagogue with an angry mob, and I'm screaming to the mob how it's our responsibility to exterminate the Jews, in the name of our god - that is incitement.
If I write an article criticizing Israel, that's not.
wicki - Member
Wonder if any of you Americans think Berni Saunders would have done better than Clinton? since the dems seam to have backed the wrong horse.
tbh, I'm not sure if he would have won leading the ticket, socialism is a dirty word in america.
They made an arse of it by not going for a clinton/sanders ticket though, that would have been a shoe-in, I reckon.
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It's ramping up...
Clod this is my point exactly, a Trump opponent calling him a Nazi - that's as clear as day the correct interpretation of that graffiti.
I think both things are going on. Trump has undoubtedly been called a nazi and had swastikas drawn on him in protest.
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However some Trump supporters seem to be positively embracing the swastika:
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[img] https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/13/20/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web06/grid-cell-24888-1479085628-9.jpg [/img][img] https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/13/20/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web06/grid-cell-24888-1479085630-14.jp g" target="_blank">
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/13/20/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web06/grid-cell-24888-1479085628-9.jpg [/img][img] https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-11/13/20/enhanced/buzzfeed-prod-web06/grid-cell-24888-1479085630-14.jp g"/> [/img]
As well as general xenophobia:
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http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/racist-incidents-after-trumps-victory
"See Nick Griffin for a perfect example"
Is that the same Nick Griffin who has actually been convicted of inciting racial hatred, is a known Holocaust denier, was best chums with a number of neo-Nazis, then expelled from his own party and now declared bankrupt (financially, not just morally)?
Not really sure what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to suggest Nick Griffin [i]isn't[/i] a vile, racist xenophobic ****?
I think what he's saying was that because he wasn't found guilty in 2006, Nick Griffin went on to bigger and better things and is now a mainstream politician with a wide support base, challenging the other three parties. Oh wait. No. Everyone knew Griffin was a nasty little racist and getting away with it a couple of times changed nothing.
Personally, I believe Griffin would have gained more support had he actually been convicted in 2006, as this may well have 'proved' that the British justice system is as 'corrupt' as many on the far-right claim. Would possibly have made him a martyr. Certainly, his political stock fell away following a temporary surge following his acquittal, and other figures came to prominence ('Tommy Robinson' and Paul Golding to name but two). Yes, he become more 'mainstream' and 'enjoyed' some political 'success', but lost his place as Britain's Leading Fascist.
Yes, he become more 'mainstream' and 'enjoyed' some political 'success', but lost his place as Britain's Leading Fascist.
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nah i think he was just ousted by someone saying the same shit with a public school background and a fine collection of blazers
As someone who has had nasty divorce I wouldn't assign a shred of credibility to anything Bannon ex-wife said
Golden, utterly golden.
See Nick Griffin for a perfect example
Seriously, you're both trolls aren't you? At least DTF is funny when he does it.
" i think he was just ousted by someone saying the same shit with a public school background and a fine collection of blazers"
Oh, the irony! Someone from a privileged elitist background, claiming to represent the interests of the 'common man', ousting a very common little man. 😆
"Seriously, you're both trolls aren't you?"
Ninfan, I believe, takes the position of '[s]Devil's[/s] ****'s Advocate' on such issues, to provoke a reaction. A common tactic by those without a sound, reasoned and informed view on an issue. An attention seeker without much of any real substance to impart.
Jambalaya, on the other hand, does seem to genuinely believe the stuff he posts. 😯
although going by standard trump logic it's the windows fault.
Rubbish, it's obvious whose at fault here - the paint is clearly black
I think what he's saying was that because he wasn't found guilty in 2006, Nick Griffin went on to bigger and better things and is now a mainstream politician with a wide support base, challenging the other three parties. Oh wait. No. Everyone knew Griffin was a nasty little racist and getting away with it a couple of times changed nothing.
I'm saying that trying to silence him and prosecuting him blew up in the establishments faces and made him stronger
Putting him on question time did the opposite
Sunlight, as always, being the best disinfectant
Or maybe I'm just not tied to any particular dogma.without a sound, reasoned and informed view on an issue.
"Putting him on question time did the oppositeSunlight, as always, being the best disinfectant"
Farage got grossly disproportionate airtime leading up to Brexit, and look what happened.
Nothing survives in a vacuum. Ideologies need the oxygen of publicity.
"Or maybe I'm just not tied to any particular dogma."
You can believe that if you want. Others won't.
Or maybe I'm just not tied to any particular dogma.
Or maybe when comparing your quotes from various threads, you just come across as a bit of a gun loving racist....
Or maybe when comparing your quotes from various threads, you just come across as a bit of a gun loving racist....
LIke the man said:
😆Wow, lefties jumping up and down accusing people of 'ist' and 'ism'Keep going, after all, it's not like that hasn't worked out well for you so far in recent campaigns, is it?
You've done nothing to allay such suspicions, though.
Or maybe I'm just not tied to any particular dogma.
Your posts certainly sound like you are. If you can't see it, then perhaps you need to step back a bit.
and we've just had the first lady refered to as 'an ape'....
yay for democracy....
🙁
You've done nothing to allay such suspicions, though.
Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah
tpbikerand we've just had the first lady refered to as 'an ape'....
yay for democracy....
Because there was no racism when Obama was running for President. And his time in office was a blissful utopia that was in no way marred by racial violence and civil unrest. Nope. Trump started this.
Wow, lefties jumping up and down accusing people of 'ist' and 'ism'
Keep going, after all, it's not like that hasn't worked out well for you so far in recent campaigns, is it?
I struggle to see how quoting that answers anything to do with not being racist? Which you have yet to deny....
You must be loving all these far right marches and stuff yeah? I bet they even carry guns whilst ranting swoon#
Because there was no racism when Obama was running for President. And his time in office was a blissful utopia that was in no way marred by racial violence and civil unrest.
Err...Trump....He's the president!? There are morons in all walks of life, some of those morons are racist, sexist, homophobic or more than likely a combination of all three. But I always find it beneficial to ensure that one of said morons sharing such values isn't the bloke in charge...