Forum menu
@Baron (Tunisian bowl btw)
[img] 
[/img]
Here's Obama's executive ordershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders_13489_and_above
I can see some there that will be near impossible to repeal.
I'm amazed that both the Brexit vote and the election of Trump happened despite all the vote rigging and election fraud inherent in the system.
ahwiles - Member
(or are they? can a referendum have more than 2 options? - are they binary by definition?)
The referendum for Scottish devolution in '97 had two questions: Devolution yes/no, tax raising powers yes/no. That was effectively a question with 3 answers: No devolution/devolution without tax raising powers/devolution with tax raising powers.
She will say ANYTHING for votes and money.
Okay, but surely Trump even more so!
He has flip-flopped around on issues to gain the votes he needs in the places he needs them. He has made promises that he knows full well he has very little intention of implementing (which of course is part of his plan: "Those weak-willed liberal elites won't let me commit war crimes. Traitors. Enemies of the people!").
Edit: great minds, mike.
Well, if Boris Johnson said it it [i]must [/i]be true.
complicated and nuanced
Nearly everything is complicated and nuanced when you micro analyse it.
Take a hammer hitting a thumb. There are likely to be numerous imperfections on the surface of the hammer. An infinite number of possible angles and skin/bone/nail interactions. But the salient point is that the hammer hits the thumb and knowing the equation for every part of the blinding pain that is likely to follow is not really helpful. It still hurts, a lot.
A sociopath has preyed on the worst parts of a national psyche. He has lied, slandered convenient enemies and tried to trash his opponent's reputation. Nothing new there. The new angle is the 'anti-politics' and 'post-truth' phenomenon. Now if you are caught lying, the best response is to double-down, say something offensive in return and claim it is all part of a conspiracy by the liberal elite.
Make no mistake, this is the start of the slide - I am very fearful for the future and, more importantly, the future that the next generation will have.
As with Brexit, a majority of a populace who voted have given in to their baser motives, turned inwards and sought a better future for themselves whilst enjoying the prospect of a worse future for those they hate.
The likes of President Assad will be uncorking the champagne as we speak. Is Trump going to pull Putin up on his actions in Syria, for example? I think not.
Welcome to the new age of extremism.
I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit.
Never going to happen because resource allocation isn't even around the globe.
I think we'll look back and realise the period from post Berlin Wall up till 2001 were the most free things ever got. Since then has been a steady ratcheting up of protecting national interests and re-entrenchment.
I have posted before I think our defense spending should be more like 3% than 2%
BAe and Cobham, amongst others, are going large...
@jambayla....please post journalist (or other examples) from reputable non-UK sources in praise of the Brexit vote.
I quite like this from Angela Merkel in offering her congratulations:
"Germany and America are bound together by values - democracy, freedom, respecting the rule of law, people's dignity regardless of their origin, the colour of their skin, religion, gender, sexual orientation or political views,"
"On the basis of these values, I am offering to work closely with the future President of the United States Donald Trump".
Time to remind someone else of their election pledge:
[img] 
[/img]
Bye then!
slowoldman - ironic that Merkel should say all that, including sexual orientation, when flatly refusing to even entertain the idea of equal marriage...
Rachel
[I]What @mickey says. The US had to be dragged into WW2 in Europe by Churchill, there is a very real sense in the US that the rest of the world expects them to be the military police (3.6% gdp spend on defence) and then spends the whole time whinning about their involvement. I strongly suspect if/when the US scales back it's intervention those complaining now will be shouting even more loudly about human rights abuses etc. I have posted before I think our defense spending should be more like 3% than 2%[/I]
It's not as simple as that, one reason the USA spends so much on 'defence' is the cost of its Veterans Programmes (healthcare, college etc), also their weapons programmes are manufacturer driven since the only countries nearer them technology-wise are their allies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex
Worth a read.
Also Churchill only wanted them on our side so we defeat Germany, he understood the manufacturing capacity available.
one reason the USA spends so much on 'defence' is the cost of its Veterans Programmes
Amateurs, they should just sell a few poppies.
All this doom mongering and dread tiding. Has anyone read any U.S forums today? makes for a much more interesting experience than here which is little more than an echo chamber.
Plus, y'all musta forgot, Ted Cruz was considered the favorite to be the Republican candidate. Literally a religious nut job. A flat earth creationist. A man who's father is a self proclaimed "Dominionist" who is on record as saying his son was a "Christian king" who was anointed to preside over an "end-time transfer of wealth" from wicked people to the righteous. He also brought pastor Kevin Swanson on campaign with him and attended rallies where Swanson discussed the possibility of rounding up and executing homosexuals.
Given how un likeable Hillary is, I'd say the world has actually dodged a bullet.
[img] 
[/img]
Has anyone read any U.S forums today?
I don't know any....
We knew it was coming... 🙂
[img] 
[/img]
We knew it was coming...
Now that does make you think.
What is going to happen to the lawsuits against him, Trump University and the other 74 ongoing legal actions?
Jamba you are truly pitiful, Clinton is corrupt??? how can you say that with zero truth apart from your own vague notions about the Clinton foundation.
I was going to post about the Trump quote being false, and then I remembered we are in a post-fact society so it doesn't matter anymore.
Not actually true though epicyclo:
> http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/
/p>
And that's an issue. Spreading lies about Trump may have seemed like karma, but it gave credence to the idea that people were conspiring against him and cast doubt on the stories that were actually true*
*as far as we know
Jamba you are truly pitiful, Clinton is corrupt??? how can you say that with zero truth apart from your own vague notions about the Clinton foundation.
If she wasn't corrupt, she would've won. She didn't win, therefore she's corrupt.
Obvs.
Please don't post made up facts and quotes. Be better than that.
Obvs.
Thanks for translating I don't seem able to speak Jambalese
also... she's not Trump, and therefore corrupt.
http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-russia-putin-idUSR4N1D800D?c?
I wonder what deal they've cooked up across that private network link over the past few weeks?
I'm going to guess; Trump neuters NATO, and turns a blind eye to Putin's expansionism?
Not sure anyone has said this yet, but
Congratulations Donald - you pulled off the big one
😉
Interesting quote on radio this morning from a US journalist "The establishment didn't take him seriously and took every he said at face value. The people that voted for him took him seriously and largely ignored what he said"
suburbanreuben - Member
I have posted before I think our defense spending should be more like 3% than 2%
BAe and Cobham, amongst others, are going large...
Yup - if there's one thing that helps push defence shares up......
Bit conflicted - not happy Trump has won, but as a shareholder and employee........
A
+1 Well Done Donald
Now reopen the Clinton [s]whitewash[/s] investigation and lock her up.
Interesting quote on radio this morning from a US journalist "The establishment didn't take him seriously and took every he said at face value. The people that voted for him took him seriously and largely ignored what he said"
True, IMHO.
Clinton would have been far better IMHO but I suspect Trump's Presidency will be as benign and impotent as Obama's.
These guys don't have the freedom to act we all imagine.
Not sure anyone has said this yet, butCongratulations Donald - you pulled off the big one
Don't know... it's put paid to the next four series of 'The Apprentice'
Supposedly its being replaced by 'He's a Mexican, get him out of here'
Lock U
Her S
UP A
Clinton would have been far better IMHO but I suspect Trump's Presidency will be as benign and impotent as Obama's.
I'm not sure that's true as he has control of the house of representatives and the senate. Unlike Obama
"The only reason I'm afraid of going to New York is the very real risk that I might meet Donald Trump" - Boris Johnson.
"@clod I agree with your sentiments on Clinton. We all felt Trump couldn't win a year ago but the fact is Clinton is so corrupt and dishonest she was no match for him."
You may well agree with me, but I really don't think you actually understand my 'sentiments'.
When it comes to corruption, Trump is many, many leagues ahead of Hilary, who is a saint by comparison. But that's not what it's about; Hilary wasn't offering the 'change' that so many US citizens clearly crave (without actually knowing what sort of 'change they really want). Trump is like Farage on steroids; make loads of empty and unfulfillable promises, appeal to people's base fears and paranoia, and make them believe you symbolise that sense of defiance and opposition they'd so like to be themselves. A bit like a drunk thinking they can take on the world.
But Trump isn't interested in what those who voted for him want (bar a very tiny minority of very wealthy elitists just like himself); he's interested in only one thing: Donald Trump.
Far too many people in the USA are very, very ignorant and poorly educated. Keeping people so ignorant is a very effective way of getting them to agree with things they don't understand. Brexit proved this.
Trump will be opposed at every turn, including by his own party. He's nowhere near actually running the show, he knows this, and the people that actually are, know this too. He'll be given a certain amount of leeway, but nothing more. But that won't bother him; he'll have been POTUSA, and his ego will live on throughout history.
But the possible side effect of this will be that he's made the USA a laughing stock already, and will significantly damage it's global standing. Which is a good thing. Unless you're a US citizen (or the inhabitants of whatever nation/s will be the inevitable victim of his own bout of sabre-rattling).
These guys don't have the freedom to act we all imagine.
While I agree with this sentiment, the feeling is that he can cause enough trouble with the 'minor' changes he can make and a few Prince Phillip style buffoon moments.
He also has over promised and raised expectations. This will likely lead to much frustration.
[s]Thankfully 'merica is not an armed country with a history of violence.[/s]
It was the independents that cost Clinton this, or at least that's where the undecideds strayed towards.
Trump's total votes are hardly any different from the last three election totals for the republicans.
However, the independent vote varied between 1% to 1.6% over the previous three. This time round it's jumped to 4.8%. That's a huge change.
I'm not sure that's true as he has control of the house of representatives and the senate. Unlike Obama
I think you'll find the house of representatives and the senate have control of him!
Hopefully this is a wake up call to the rest of the world politicians.
Incoming elections in France and I would hope that we won't follow UK and US lead in voting stupidity.
The UK have not voted stupidity.
[img] 
[/img]
You never know, he may surprise us
wrecker - Member
The UK have not voted stupidity.
You missed off in your opinion, however almost half the UK population think you are wrong.
It's OK, there are still 10 weeks or so before he takes office. Plenty time for a massive stroke or heart failure or some other 'natural cause' to take him out.
Here's hoping anyway.
You missed off in your opinion, however almost half the UK population think you are wrong.
Over half agree, and I didn't see you pulling up chris2lou for not stating "in his/her opinion" as most haven't when referring to brexit.
I hate Trump, but I won't be sad if he can accelerate the demise of the EU as an administrative organisation.
Most brits don't grasp how important the yanks take freedom of speech, and neither did Clinton when she supported the 'safe space' SJW ass hats.
" however almost half the UK population think you are wrong."
Given that only about what, a quarter of all UK citizens actually voted for Brexit, I'd say it's likely a lot more than half the population think the Brexiters were stupid...
And a hell of a lot more people globally would agree.
Except 52% of those who didn't vote would have voted out. That or really couldn't care less.
"Except 52% of those who didn't vote would have voted out."
No;
""That or really couldn't care less."
More like it.
Doesn't matter. We're leaving. Unlucky.
It was the independents that cost Clinton this, or at least that's where the undecideds strayed towards.
Agreed. IMO this is because of the appalling nature of Clinton as a candidate. Had the Libertarian voters moved to Clinton she would have won Florida for example.
@cchris yup hopefully they have been ignoring voters legitimate concerns. Did you see the tweet from the senior PS guy (forgot his name sorry) ? Excuse my translation
"This is a wake up call to the left. We must change our direction (abandon our pet projects) or Le Penn will be Presdient"
Interesting comment from Merkel who has admitted her refugee policy has been a mistake and is in the process of passing a law to ensure EU citizens cannot claim unemployment benefits until they have been working in Germany for 5 years.
Given that only about what, a quarter of all UK citizens actually voted for Brexit
Are you counting babies and children ? Referendum was the largest democratic excersize ever held in the UK
I hate Trump, but I won't be sad if he can accelerate the demise of the EU as an administrative organisation.
This. Did you aee Farage is angling to be the US representative to the EU in Brussels 🙂
Doesn't matter. We're leaving. Unlucky.
🙂 🙂 🙂 It's like the speech you get before a big sports match, give it your all, don't put yourself in a situation where you are full of regret afterwards. Remain just did not do enough to win. We should stay and reform (as its cr@p) isn't a winning tagline.
Nearly everything is complicated and nuanced when you micro analyse it.Take a hammer hitting a thumb. There are likely to be numerous imperfections on the surface of the hammer. An infinite number of possible angles and skin/bone/nail interactions. But the salient point is that the hammer hits the thumb and knowing the equation for every part of the blinding pain that is likely to follow is not really helpful. It still hurts, a lot.
I appreciate the analogy, but it only works if there is underlying evidence to support the contention. In this case, it turns out that the majority of poor Americans supported Clinton. Trump was elected by the white and wealthy.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls
I wonder if Trump is planning his biggest bankruptcy yet?
They went all in.
[img] 
[/img]
Booooommm **** yeah.
it turns out that the majority of poor Americans supported Clinton. Trump was elected by the white and wealthy.
Not the correct analysis imho. Poor black people supported Clinton but less of them than for Obama - she was weak here. More Hispanics voted for Trump than Mitt Romney. Poor white people supported Trump. Clinton did not do well enough with Black voters as they didn't turn out for her, yes 80% voted democrat but many did not bother.
Most brits don't grasp how important the yanks take freedom of speech
Well Trump was an excellent choice for them then.
Children in America are "watching the internet and they want to be masterminds", Trump said in a speech."We're losing a lot of people because of the internet," Trump said. "We have to see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what's happening.
"We have to talk to them about, maybe in certain areas, closing that internet up in some ways. Somebody will say, 'Oh freedom of speech, freedom of speech.' These are foolish people."
"I see the other day, and they're all talking about it so wonderfully, because, you know, it’s called freedom of the press, where you buy magazines and they tell you how to make these same bombs that I saw,' Trump said in an interview on on "Fox & Friends.""Now people will go crazy, they'll say, 'Oh Trump is against freedom of the press.' I’m not against. I’m totally in favor of freedom of the press. But how do you allow magazines to be sold?"
-- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-freedom-of-expression_us_57dfde58e4b04a1497b54f2f
[img] 
[/img]
'merica's obviously got some nasty shit it wants done and they needed a muppet to take the heat. Step forward Trump.
[quote=jambalaya ]
Referendum was the largest democratic excersize ever held in the UK
Moar #jambafacts
EU referendum - 33,577,342 votes. 72.21% turnout
Without even trying
1992 General Election - 33,614,074 votes. 77.7% turnout
(now you'll try and say a General Election isn't a "democratic excersize")
I can only hope that trump has played all this brilliantly and has made statements designed to capture the vote of the a number of specific demographics carefully calculated to bring this all home.
Tomorrow he'll turn about face on these statement,reveal it was an engineered voter strategy and inform us what his new brand of politics will bring.
Climate change denial and fossil fuels being the first thing he changes his mind on and the revelation that he does indeed believe in science.
Jambalaya and Wrecker, UK hasn't left yet.
Not the correct analysis imho. Poor black people supported Clinton but less of them than for Obama - she was weak here. More Hispanics voted for Trump than Mitt Romney. Poor white people supported Trump. Clinton did not do well enough with Black voters as they didn't turn out for her, yes 80% voted democrat but many did not bother.
Jambafacts again: 80% of black votes is apparently a "weak" performance by Clinton.
The cohort that won it for Trump is wealthier white people.
That or really couldn't care less.
Or didn't know how important it was...?
Jambalaya and Wrecker, UK hasn't left yet.
Not long now my friend.
Despite being made to look good compared to Trump, Clinton was a poor nominee. As someone smart recently said both Parties nominated the only candidate that could lose to the other. She was “least worse” for a lot of Democrats, ‘lease worse’ isn’t a great driver to get out and vote.
As other have said, lots of people, mostly it seems the ones who usually couldn’t give a monkey’s about politics wanted change, it’s been a long, hard, slog since 2008 for a lot of people and working class Americans in poor towns and cities especially.
Clinton offered ‘more of the same’ She is part of the ruling class, Wife of a former President, something She distanced herself from until the last week of the election and as others have said, offered little policies other than “look at the state of him”. For the record I don’t think Bernie could have won either, for generations lots of American’s can’t tell the difference between socialism and communism and both are a dirty word, and ‘Liberal’ is an insult.
What will Trump bring the US and the World? Tax cuts to the rich is a given, but ‘only’ the very very Rich, normal Millionaires need not apply, he can’t stand new-money Hedge Fund Managers and the like, as for the rest? Who knows – his plan to impose import tariffs on China and Mexico to bring jobs back to America is straight out of the old-school Socialist hand-book, it could almost be a Corbin policy, no way he’ll get that through the Senate.
As for the Wall? Could cost as much as $18bn I read, Mexico isn’t going to pay for it and he’d be a fool to piss Mexico off – he acts like they’re the naughty step-child and should do as he says, truth is that most of Mexico’s problem stem from their anti-drug policies imposed on them by the US, Mexico doesn’t have a massive consumption drug problem, Mexico has a massive drug production problem – like Columbia in the 80’s if they stop caring about drugs being exported into the US, the violence would go down massively, and if they turn a blind eye to the money it will flow into their economy. If I was Peña Nieto and Trump started pushing that wall on me, I’d have no problem standing in front of my own government and saying “For too long Mexico has suffered unspeakable violence stemming from the drug trade, but we don’t have many addicts, I’m going to decriminalize the lot and let the Gringos sort it out”.
"The cohort that won it for Trump is wealthier white people."
So not stupid people then?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37921376 ]Canada's immigration website crashes during US vote[/url]
glad I put my request in last week!
wrecker - MemberJambalaya and Wrecker, UK hasn't left yet.
Not long now my friend.
Two and a half years at the earliest, but more than likely much, much longer, if at all. We can pull out on day 729 of A50 if we want.
Much water, many bridges, a tight result and post result polls suggesting a sway in feeling.
I wouldn't count your chickens just yet if I were you.
Wait till inflation is double digits, fuel £1.50 a litre, unemployment rising and wages falling and see how much support it has then amongst the protest voters then.
Been off line all day - has Clinton surfaced yet?
Wait till inflation is double digits, fuel £1.50 a litre, unemployment rising and wages falling and see how much support it has then amongst the protest voters then.
All of this is magnitudes less likely than us leaving the EU.
People slag off people whose votes used to put them into power, and they call them stupid.
Two and a half years at the earliest, but more than likely much, much longer, if at all. We can pull out on day 729 of A50 if we want.
Sadly that is not the case. Once we invoke Article 50 then we are out. If no agreement in negotiations are reached then we leave anyway. With nothing agreed.
My kids are filled with glee that the US is now run by President Fart... I think they have exactly the right perspective on all this nonsense 🙂
I challenge any person on here to provide evidence that their day to day life has been effected in any way whatsoever by this election over the following 12 months
Or as John Denham said:
Part of left's problem is it expects/demands blacks/hispanics to vote on ethnic basis but is appalled when whites do.
GrahamS, its a shame you weren't running Clinton's campaign #lightacandle
All of this is magnitudes less likely than us leaving the EU.
Hope you're right, about the economy anyway.
I guess we'll know more if / when someone dares put forward an actual plan for leaving. It's only been three and a half years since CMD and Co published a draft EU Referendum Bill - so, can't be long now eh?
What format it'll actually take once it's been debated and voted on in the Commons though...
"The cohort that won it for Trump is wealthier white people."So not stupid people then?
I don't know: how would you propose to measure that hypothesis?
imnotverygood - MemberTwo and a half years at the earliest, but more than likely much, much longer, if at all. We can pull out on day 729 of A50 if we want.
Sadly that is not the case. Once we invoke Article 50 then we are out. If no agreement in negotiations are reached then we leave anyway. With nothing agreed.
Whilst it's true that if no common ground can be found by the end of the 2 year period we leave without one, we can invoke Article 49 to rejoin - it's not an automatic thing, but it's unlikely the EU would refuse it.