Forum menu
@ninfan, I never had you down as an anarchist...
I do sympathise with the desire to keep corporatism in check, but I don’t understand why you might think that a multi-millionaire reality TV slum landlord would be your choice, unless you subscribe to the nihilist notion that you’d like to watch it all burn. Moreover, since 2009 the cap upon individual donations to US political parties has been lifted, meaning that billionaire hard right activists like the Koch brothers are free to wield enormous influence over GOP policy, no?
If I may confront the allegations of anti-senitism within the Labour Party for a moment, I might add that as a party member and activist myself, I’ve never encountered the type of anti-semitism hyped in the press, although I could be forgiven for the opinion that anti-semitism and anti-Israeli foreign policy are often conflated. Allegations about entrenched anti-Muslim sentiment within the Conservative Party have been made by no less a person than Baroness Warsi herself. I’m sure that Conservative activists will give a different perspective.
Don’t forget the PIE received public funding for campaigning as recently as 1980, when the Labour Party was in opposition. I’m aware of historical links with the NCCL, but if you want to play that particular ballgame, then we can discuss the links between the Apartheid regime and certain senior Conservatives during the 1970s/1980s.
So, hopefully I’ve established that the terms of our debate are friendly, not oppositional so I’ll ask you once again whether you actually buy into Trump’s politics or whether you’re simply enjoying getting a rise out of folk. If it’s the former, I’m genuinely interested in how that fits with your worldview - do you see the world through some sort of Bannon-esque lens in that you feel that we’re doomed to repeat the social and economic mistakes of the past and that chaos is the most efficient way of restructuring the social and economic order?
Or will you reply with a non-sequitur or go on the offensive?
cchris2lou
Member
as much as I dislike Trump , at least he has opened the dialogue .
As much as talking is good as several fairly reputable analysis pieces go with is he has got nothing in return for taking less from NK than a series of previous presidents. He has gifted NK great bit of PR and a way out, literally rewarding the development of Nuclear Weapons.
In the last few months he has shown his word is worth nothing, the US doesn't stick to it's deals and can flip friends and enemies in a matter of 144 characters.
Maybe Trump's lining NK up as an option for his exile once the revolution/impeachment starts, at least he can build some luxury condos on their amazing beaches in preparation, I'm sure Kim will give him some slave labour to keep the costs down to.
If my critics saw me walking...blah blah blah
Oh please, spare us. If you thought for a second Trump had achieved, well, anything really, you and all the other Trumpists would be all over it like a rash. 24hrs to digest the news and everyone's come to same conclusion.
Aww give Trump a break...
Good stuff may come out of his historic Facebook/Twitter opportunity, by accident and not design but I do think this is all PR fluff.
Good stuff may come out of his historic Facebook/Twitter opportunity
Must be some good sites for golf links along the NK coastline.
Trumps state department doing well this week, slagging off CNN for not covering an event that press weren't invited to and using D-Day as an example of their relationship with Germany. Good work.
Yep that’s a cracker...
Looking back in the history books, today is the 71st anniversary of the speech that announced the Marshall Plan. Tomorrow is the anniversary of the D-Day invasion. We obviously have a very long history with the government of Germany, and we have a strong relationship with the government of Germany
i did like the Fox presenters meeting of two dictators gaffe muchly big.
it just seems really simple- if Obama had done this, the GOP would have shit the bed, and Trump'd now be reversing it. It's a worse deal than was made with Iran after all.
One of my favourite lines is from Senator Tom Cotton, who says that you shouldn't deal with dictators but it's different when they have nuclear weapons. I'm not sure he quite understands what denuclearisation is supposed to achieve. "Dear Korea, please give up your nukes so we can treat you worse/ No? Why not?"
if Obama had done this, the GOP would have shit the bed, and Trump’d now be reversing it. It’s a worse deal than was made with Iran after all.
I'm yet to see what Trump has "given" NK that cant be taken back - in fact, as usual, theres some selective quoting going on by the media - all been up in arms about how cancelling the exercises was playing into NK's hands, but failing to tell us what else Trump said about them being back on if talks with NK didn't proceed
whether you actually buy into Trump’s politics or whether you’re simply enjoying getting a rise out of folk. If it’s the former, I’m genuinely interested in how that fits with your worldview – do you see the world through some sort of Bannon-esque lens in that you feel that we’re doomed to repeat the social and economic mistakes of the past and that chaos is the most efficient way of restructuring the social and economic order?
Its hard to disagree with his points about America offering regional security to a variety of countries for decades, allowing their economies to blossom (and trade with the US) with little in return. Expecting them to contribute to the bill for their own security (and if you look back at this argument he's been saying it for years) is far from unreasonable - if you look at Germany in particular, and their longstanding failure to match established NATO spending targets, then its hard to justify, similar with South Korea, Taiwan, Japan & Saudi Arabia - they (and corporate bodies in them) have massively benefitted from the security and stability offered by the US and been able to use this to build their own economy that now sells into the US. (and thats before we even look at the Marshall plan)
I’m yet to see what Trump has “given” NK that cant be taken back
Such is the value of his signature....
Question did he get better commitments than previous presidents?
As for Nato spending targets its been done to death but it has been proven. Trump is at best exaggerating when it comes to agreements and timescales.
But as a Nato exit strategy pissing off all your allies seems like a good start.
Maybe it's just me (and apologies if it's already been said), but does this whole Trump-NK thing look a bit too conveniently orchestrated by someone who wants to keep Trump in power ….. cough..Vlad! Classic diversion tactic.
Its hard to disagree with his points about America offering regional security to a variety of countries for decades, allowing their economies to blossom (and trade with the US) with little in return
Its pretty easy really - installing right wing dictators in exchange for a few crumbs and using vicious sanctions if the countries wish to install progressive governments democtratically
See Iran contra, see invasion of Grenada, see Argentina and see it happening again in Venezuala
What does the USA get out of protecting other countries ?
Billions of dollars in weapons contracts . That is why they do it .
What does the USA get out of protecting other countries ?
Political Penis Extension (PPE)
using vicious sanctions if the countries wish to install progressive governments democtratically
Hmm, Grenada wasn't in any respect the instillation of a 'progressive' (you mean communist really, don't you?) democratic government.
The coup that installed the moderate marxist-leninist leader, Maurice Bishop in '79 wasn't democratic, and it was internal fractures in that dictatorship that led to him being executed four years later* and replaced by another member of the same party, Coard, and then again a few days later with another NJM leader, General Hudson Austin.
*"My God, my God. They have turned the guns against the people" http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/20/newsid_3720000/3720608.stm
Democracy only returned in '84 after the US invasion.
So, frankly, your claim about "installing progressive governments democratically" is bollox isn't it? What you really reveal is that you're more than comfortable with Coups and Juntas that rule by fear and terror, as long as they result in communist leadership (oh, how very close to Jeremy Corbyn's belief system you really are TJ...)
And thats before we even begin to discuss how the replacement of the Shah of Iran with Ayatolla Khomeni on the back of the Iranian revolution was so far from the instillation of a democratic progressive government as to be utterly laughable.
So still no idea what Trump got from Kim then?
Whats that wooshing noise?
Democratically elected government of Nicaragua - multiple attempts to overthrow it and attempts to install right wing despots- thats Iran Contra. sponserd invasions as well as political destabilisation
Democratically elected government of Chile - overthrown by a US backed coup installing a right wing dictator responsible for horrendous human rights abuses.
Greneda - what right do the US have to invade?
Bay of Pigs? etc etc.
Washington bullets again.
So still no idea what Trump got from Kim then?
Pretty pics for his his Facebook and Twitter.
Sort of puff his base likes playing his reality tv president role.
Democratically elected government of Nicaragua
The Sandinistas seized power in a coup in 79, declared a state of emergency and announced that "elections are unnecessary“ US support for the Contras via CIA was well established long before the 1984 election. So, another TJ lie - it wasn’t the instillation of a progressive democratic government, it was just another junta
Democratically elected government of Chile
Allende leadership (a minority eadershil from the start) was ended after the majority parties in congress called for him to stand down, and he refused to - congress then called in the military. So, once again, him remaining in power would have been the opposite of democracy.
Greneda – what right do the US have to invade?
the Governor General, Paul Scoon, asked for their intervention. This was his constitutional right as Grenada remained a constitutional Monarchy and he was the formal representative of the Queen on the island.
Bay of Pigs? etc etc.
oh, look, TJ once gain defending another military coup, installing a communist dictatorship rather than the Instillation of a ‘progressive’ government democratically as you originally claimed to be defending
you really have a thing for the old commie coup fantasy don’t you TJ
So the Artist of the deal... What did he manage to get? I think he finally managed to one up Obama there on the deal 😉 Makes Iran look like a cheeky little tip.
So clearly Manafort though he was involved in something illegal, or he wouldn't have been trying to mess with witnesses.
It seems the great leader has the ability to talk to the dead.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1007609971561979906
The man has bigly skills.
Wonder if ninfan wants to add some cheerleading for his necromancy skills 🙂
I imagine there was a bigly presents around him
I'm glad we know the excuse he is using to justify the new Trump Golf resort
Well done to both countries. Peace it shall be in the region.
Asean supports the good gestures from both countries and there will be prosperous trade in the region.
As for China, Asean has traded with China for thousand of years (at least 5 thousands) and has never been a threat but a trading partner.
Britain is heading in the right direction.
So good, we were all worried about you Chewkw hope the reboot went well and the supreme leader approves of you
Asean supports the good gestures from both countries and there will be prosperous trade in the region.
As for China, Asean has traded with China for thousand of years (at least 5 thousands) and has never been a threat but a trading partner.
chewkw, perfectly timed
chewkw, perfectly timed
Even if it is 100% (an extreme example) tarrif it is still a non issue because it is a normal competitive gesture.
We in ASEAN accepts that it is perfectly normal for countries to protect their own interests.
Trade war is just a temporal adjustment for us.
p/s: President Trump is doing the right thing to protect Mericans interest. Even China and Asean respect that. Who doesn't want to protect own interest?
All hail the killfile.
Is that ASEAN tyne and wear pet? Is it near Cramlington or Whitley Bay?
Is that ASEAN tyne and wear pet? Is it near Cramlington or Whitley Bay?
I am a legal extension of ASEAN in the North East. 😀
Well in that case you should be able to see how ****ed trump is and how to loose a trade war, should be quite educational for the disciples - he's not the messiah he is just a very naughty boy
All hail the killfile.
LOL! Thank you for your welcome. Haven't seen you for a while. 😀
Well in that case you should be able to see how **** trump is and how to loose a trade war, should be quite educational for the disciples – he’s not the messiah he is just a very naughty boy
President Trump is just doing his things to protect Merica's interest so what is wrong with that? He ain't socialist you know.
Loose a trade war? When or how?
However, if you really want to know how trade war works then you should wait for President Trump to impose tariff on EU, then see how many of them will bow to him for trade.
As I said previously, Britain is heading in the right direction regardless of whether it is the West or the East.
Hint, hint: Britain is the middle person. 😀
p/s: ASEAN totally welcome Britain to trade with them. Welcome with open arms.
However, if you really want to know how trade war works then you should wait for President Trump to impose tariff on EU, then see how many of them will bow to him for trade.
Check the news spambot, he did and the EU hit the US with tariffs on iconic US brands from states with influential US republican representatives. It;s called thinking, the EU and China will hit US metal workers, Soya bean farmers, Burbon and many more....
#BurningDownTheHouse
Who burned down the house?
Check the news spambot, he did and the EU hit the US with tariffs on iconic US brands from states with influential US republican representatives. It;s called thinking, the EU and China will hit US metal workers, Soya bean farmers, Burbon and many more….
Iconic brands? You mean brands with strong desire? If people want Harley Davison bikes, they will buy Harley Davison bikes regardless of the price.
Why show concern for Merican brands?
Just impose your own tariff accordingly to compete ...
p/s: if you are a motorbike rider, have you seen the latest Kawasaki Z900RS Cafe ... that is a bike I want and not a Harley ...
And there was me thinking that Chekw's posts had dried up because the UK had banned Cannabis oil.
Looks like he has found a substitute and the results are certainly no better.
He's probably drinking the water out of the North Sea.
I’m waiting for the announcement that Trumps going to join Kim an Putins jolly 🙂
Cant see him wanting to miss the photo opportunity.
And there was me thinking that Chekw’s posts had dried up because the UK had banned Cannabis oil.
They just allowed it as a medical emergency so guess Chekw have got a few gallons now
Cant see him wanting to miss the photo opportunity.
I half expect to see him and John Terry turning up to lift the world cup in a few weeks time 🙂
And there was me thinking that Chekw’s posts had dried up because the UK had banned Cannabis oil.
LOL! I am not hip, hype or cool so no cannabis oil needed.
Looks like he has found a substitute and the results are certainly no better.
Only if the substitute interest me but as far as I know this thread has been going on for a while. You not bored?
He’s probably drinking the water out of the North Sea.
My communist friend lives closer to the North Sea than I do. Practially 10 mins walk away.
They just allowed it as a medical emergency so guess Chekw have got a few gallons now
Probably the few gallons are accumulated from those people that cry their eyes out when they see President Trump and Kim shaking hands ... NOooooooo ... 😀
LOL! I am not hip, hype or cool so no cannabis oil needed.
I hate to break it to you, chewkthing, but I believe the suggestion is not that you need cannabis, but that you have been taking it.
It is being offered as an explanation for your ignorant, dimwitted and frankly unhinged comments on - well - just about everything...
No offense.
I reckon Don’s eyeing up setting up a business school in NK along with a nice line of condos.
Perhaps a new Trump line of gated security condos for retired dictators.
President Trump is just doing his things to protect Merica’s interest so what is wrong with that? He ain’t socialist you know.
In which he’s already causing problems for Americans who are losing trade, and looking forward to paying very much more for raw materials they need in order to make things to sell to Americans, which will be more expensive, and the same goes for products exported to the rest of the world. Items like HD Motorcycles and Jack Daniels are real luxuries which for which (better) alternatives can easily be found.
Some people would do well to educate themselves on the real implications of what dTrump is doing. Canada, for example, is threatening to ignore American drug patents and make identical copies whic many older (GOP-voting) Americans need but which cost them enormous amounts of money. Others may well join in.
https://boingboing.net/2018/06/17/the-pharma-wars.html
I hate to break it to you, chewkthing, but I believe the suggestion is not that you need cannabis, but that you have been taking it.
It is being offered as an explanation for your ignorant, dimwitted and frankly unhinged comments on – well – just about everything…
No offense.
I am chilled without having to take anything so no need to suggest. Thank you for your concern 😀
Trade war is just a normal market competition ...
President Trump likes to do things his ways so other nations just have to accept that. Simple. If he wants to exert his power during his Presidency all over world so be it, who are going to stop him? If Merican does not want to be EU alliance that is their choice. Other nations have No say whatsoever in how another sovereign state is run. None.
In ASEAN, we are not concerned with any of the changes around the world as we can deal with them our ways.
No offense taken as you are adapting the western developed countries perspective. I view the entire situation from ASEAN perspective, which will bound to have conflict with others because of they don't understand ASEAN.
Slightly different point:
LOL! Rumour has it that when Singapore was thinking about giving Merican a military based there, all their neighbours objected and said they would give China/Russia a base next to them if Singapore was to go with that idea. It was so funny ... 😀
You got 1 & 2 now but try number 3
In which he’s already causing problems for Americans who are losing trade, and looking forward to paying very much more for raw materials they need in order to make things to sell to Americans, which will be more expensive, and the same goes for products exported to the rest of the world. Items like HD Motorcycles and Jack Daniels are real luxuries which for which (better) alternatives can easily be found.
Causing problems for Mericans or are you saying that the good time is over for others?
US is has a trade deficit with EU etc so why can't the President adjust it as he sees fit? If he wants to tear the trade agreement apart there is nothing EU or others can do.
If Mericans don't like their President they can vote him out as simple as that after all it is a democracy is it not?
The implication etc in the article about invalidating US pharma patents, that is good for everyone is it not? Now everyone can copy each others to create cheaper medication rather than being monopolised by big pharma companies.
The so called Win Win argument is only plausible if we are computerised machine bot.
It is time to shake the world. 😀
Come on Chewkw you managed to use good english on quite a few posts why has it gone again?
If Mericans don’t like their President they can vote him out as simple as that after all it is a democracy is it not?
Every 4 years, or come November they could well have the 2/3 needed, or he could be locked up anyway
The implication etc in the article about invalidating US pharma patents, that is good for everyone is it not? Now everyone can copy each others to create cheaper medication rather than being monopolised by big pharma companies.
and no cash for R&D
While you want to world to be shaken up it's the poor that will hurt first.
Oh and is this what you mean by all shook up?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/prisons-safety-substitute-guards.html
<p class="css-1i0edl6 e2kc3sl0">BIG SPRING, Tex. — On a recent rainy day, more than 400 sex offenders, gang members and other inmates at the federal prison in this West Texas town weathered the storm by crowding into a three-story building.</p>
<p class="css-1i0edl6 e2kc3sl0">Two guards were on duty. One was a uniformed correctional officer, the other a health worker in civilian clothes pitching in because there were not enough regular officers.</p>
<p class="css-1i0edl6 e2kc3sl0">Outside, along the security fences surrounding the sprawling prison campus, a worker who normally offers counseling to inmates patrolled in a vehicle, armed with three weapons. And in a unit reserved for the most dangerous inmates, a clerk from the commissary policed the corridors.</p>
Come on Chewkw you managed to use good english on quite a few posts why has it gone again?
Can't type and think while watching world cup repeat ... 😀
Slight distraction ... some news abroad.
Also recent event in ASEAN with Malaysian govt change for the first time in history shows democracy is alive in our part of the world. Our ways.
The ex-PM basically laundered Billions of $$$ abroad but finally people had enough of him and the old govt which has been governing since independence was kicked out of office.
Guess what ... The world did Not intervene when money was laundered out of the country. Only the Merican alerted us about the ex-PM laundering money through out the world, other countries just kept quiet and let them be. The money even went through Singapore ... The money laundered or stolen by the ex-PM was the highest in the world. Many of properties bought in London belong to the ex-thieving PM. In Malaysia we openly and publicly call him a thief.
The movie The Wolf of Wall Street was funded by the laundered money from Malaysian people. The culprits are all on the run now and sooner or later we will get them. They can hide but they cannot run. Many of the Hollywood celebrities even enjoyed the laundered money of the poor people of Malaysia.
Also another highly corrupted politicians ex-Chief Minister of North Borneo might currently be hiding in the UK. Although he won his seat in the election but his party losed and now he has done a runner. Hiding in the UK.
and no cash for R&D
While you want to world to be shaken up it’s the poor that will hurt first.
There is no such thing as no cash. You just have to invest wisely.
He's moved on from trade, he wants a war in space. Cos all good supervillains do space stuff.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/392799-trump-directs-pentagon-to-create-space-force
Apparently it's nice and simple to "just" create a Space Force. Not sure how much the average Death Star costs though...
Yay. The disruptive arsehole is back.
You might not agree with Crazy Legs BB, but that opinion seems a bit harsh.
Putting kids in cages in America is fine now , can it get any lower ?
Even his wife thinks he's a ****!!!
You know who is in charged there. 😀
Even his wife thinks he’s a ****!!!
Crazylegs is married to Louise?
You know who is in charged there.
You might not agree with Crazy Legs BB, but that opinion seems a bit harsh.
Wasnt aimed at him...
in charge?
Amusing though the Merkel/Trump cartoon stuff is, I'm afraid it's worse than that, Jim...
Trump's throwing children in cages to try & force the democrats to fund his crazy wall*
No wonder he gets on so well with Kim Jong un !
>
<
* Funnily enough he no longer says Mexico will pay for it
& just to show how happy Trump is to trade with Asia he's threatening them with the worlds biggest ever? Tariffs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44529149
Donald Trump- earlier
Nothing to add to this really, but I tried to look up the derivation of the word Wazzock today only to find that the internet has decided to put the orange one’s picture as one of the definitions. Made me laugh anyway, but then had to explain to the kids why I was laughing so much.
Always good to have a quick fact check
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/15/620515830/fact-check-trumps-freewheeling-friday
So trump's been shamed into not throwing children in cages (without their parents), poor ninfan can't complain we're being silly comparing him to the Nazis now, too.
Making America Great Again , one caged child at a time
Meanwhile trump's steel tarifs have led to domestic prices rising by 40% & soybean prices crashing on fears of China retaliating.
https://www.ft.com/content/28c26592-74a5-11e8-aa31-31da4279a601
Making America Great Again , one caged child at a time
More Like F.A.H.A
The complete wibble defence from the Hill and those after election is very telling.
Edit. Oops wrong thread...
The cover of this weeks Time Magazine, which Trump always wanted to make it onto the cover of, is absolutely inspired, though probably not what he had in mind.
I did my dissertation on photomontage as a political weapon, and this is good as it gets. So simple but so powerful
