Indeed what sort of loon would think that there was any link between when you are treated and how likely you are to survive?None of them even dare to link any sort of mortality rate to delay in operations
I need to see this proof NOW that life saving operations WORK and that treating ill people actually works.
Junkyard - lazarus
None of them even dare to link any sort of mortality rate to delay in operations
Indeed what sort of loon would think that there was any link between when you are treated and how likely you are to survive?I need to see this proof NOW that life saving operations WORK and that treating ill people actually works.
Nobody likes to suffer but the truth of the matter is that is the nature of NHS. It is an organisation so large it is impossible to manage.
The dream of trying to make it work smoothly ... that's nothing but a dream. You can be a genius of management or a living saint and I challenge anyone in this world to manage NHS without difficulty. That perfection Cannot be attained. NHS has reached it's peak. NHS is tired. NHS is behaving like NHS. Not perfect but trying its best coz that's the nature of it.
The NHS is great. The greatest. So many people tell me how great the NHS is. I made the NHS great. I've seen people saying the NHS is failing. Fake news. Sad.
aracer - Member
The NHS is great. The greatest. So many people tell me how great the NHS is. I made the NHS great. I've seen people saying the NHS is failing. Fake news. Sad.
Not referring to aracer above ^^^.
But just in case someone tries to twist my words read this carefully ...
Not perfect but trying its best coz that's the nature of it.
It's [b]Not[/b] falling but that's the way NHS works ... with all sort of pressure.
Meanwhile back on topic...
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/02/21/we-must-all-take-responsibility-using-facts-correctly-swedish-pm-surprised-trump
"I was, like many others I believe, surprised by the comments made about Sweden this weekend," Lofven said during a joint press conference in Stockholm with visiting Canadian Governor General David Johnston.Trump, speaking in Florida on Saturday, said; "You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible".
"We have opportunities, we have challenges, we're working (on) them every day. But I think also we must all take responsibility for using facts correctly, and for verifying any information that we spread," Lofven said.
Trump family trips cost taxpayers $11.3m in one month – almost as much as Obama’s cost in a year
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-costs-trips-security-taxpayer-barack-obama-month-year-a7586261.html ]Kerching![/url]
Damm this man is good for the US economy/his own pocket
^ that deserves to be a huge story - it [i]should[/i] really shine a light to Trump's bare-faced hipocracy, in a way that the average person on the street can understand.
However, I expect he'll just dismiss it as fake news
It does make a mockery of the not taking the salary part doesn't it.
Okay, that gif ... female shouldn't make that sort of hand gesture coz that's wrong ... think about it.
OK. I thought about it.
As a response to your firearms against demonstrators remark?
Bang on the money.
Twerp.
It would be interesting to know what the crime rate for Orebro is like.
It's a town about the size of Cambridge but if that FB post that Jamba quoted is to be believed it gets as much violent crime in a week as Cambridge does in a year (unless we have Libyan troops visiting of course).
Wonder who has posted most frequently in this thread?
Don't be lazy ... start searching the Interweb now to do some serious homework show me the evidence. Where are your facts? Ya, facts.
Chewk when you can come up with a single fact to support your quite frankly ludicrous view of the world and in particular the NHS and your poor trolling attempting to deny that cancelled life saving operations won't lead to more people dying.....
Then maybe someone somewhere might start taking you seriously, you are the perfect example of a trump supporter: immune to logic and desperate to believe the 'facts' according to the orange faced clown
Having visited Sweden loads, it isn't perfect but the stuff being said is massively exaggerated.
There was more problems when lots of Serbs and Croats arrived in the 90's
So after complaining constantly about Obama going golfing all the time, Trump has been to golf courses six times in the last month. Only a few holes though says the white house, except rory mccilroy let slip he played eighteen holes with him.
Blimey Rory did THAT. He is going to cop some flak. Will Santander drop sponsorships for an ambassador being associated with a guy who is openly hostile to Hispanics?
Ah, I wondered why McIlroy was copping some abuse on twitter last night. Certainly not going to go down well.
Ah, Millencolin are from Orebro! No wonder it's kicking off there, they don't waste their time fitting in.
"Tell us where you're from
What you want to become
And we'll say if you're OK"
****ty mc****tface has waded in
[img] 
[/img]
Of course he and Trump are full of shit
Kimber,
You are not very good aren't you. 😆
You are lazy aren't you I mean at least try harder. Took me 5 seconds to google this.
[img] 
[/img]
Some more information here with nearly 200 pages written ...
Read until your heart content ...
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html ]The Indpendent.[/url]
Especially this report/research ... [url= http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra-2014-vaw-survey-main-results-apr14_en.pdf ]PDF file 200 pages - Violence against women: an EU-wide survey. [/url]
p/s: after 8 minutes I managed to get the 200 pages survey while reading other news ... Kimber is lazy.
Who knew that the kiwis were so rapey?
Took you 5 seconds to find that did it? Shame you didn't spend an extra 10 seconds to also find the below.
A frequently cited source when comparing Swedish rape statistics internationally is the regularly published report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), based on official statistics provided by each member state.[note 1] In 2012, Sweden had 66 cases of reported rapes per 100,000 population, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå).[238] This was unequivocally the biggest number reported to the UNODC in 2012.[239] However, widely differing legal systems, offence definitions, terminological variations, recording practices and statistical conventions makes any cross-national comparison on rape statistics difficult,[240][241][242][243] which is why the UNODC itself caution against using their figures.[239] It should also be noted that many countries do not report any rape statistics at all to the UNODC,[244] and some report very low numbers, despite studies that indicate otherwise.[245][246]Comparison of selected countries' reported rape rates, 2012.
The Swedish police record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.[240][243][247] Sweden also has a comparatively wide definition of rape.[240][241][242] This means that more sexual crimes are registered as rape than in most other countries.[241] For example, in 2005 Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider,[240][248][249][250] which led to a marked increase in reports.[251][252] Additionally, the Swedish police have improved the handling of rape cases, in an effort to decrease the number of unreported cases.[240][252][253][254] For this reason, large-scale victimisation surveys have been presented by criminologists as a more reliable indicator of rape prevalence.[240][241][242] An EU-wide survey on sexual violence against women, published by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) in 2014, showed Sweden was only third highest, below Denmark and Finland[255] and a previous assessment by Brå have placed Sweden at an average level among European nations.[241]According to the FRA study there's a strong correlation between higher levels of gender equality and disclosure of sexual violence.[255] This, and a greater willingness among Swedish women to report rape in relationships,[256] may also explain the relatively high rates of reported rape in Sweden, which has a long-standing tradition of gender equality policy and legislation, as well as an established women's movement,[242] and has been ranked as the number one country in sex equality.[243][257]
Edit - both kimbers and I were obviously able to find it.....
That's from 2012 chewk, before the recent surge in immigrants
I think you need to spend more than 5 minutes googling
You, like farage and trump need things explaining very clearly so you don't get confused
You might want to look at the definition and recording of rape in Sweden as compared to other countries.....
Here you go
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
It's a little bit complicated so come back in an hour when you have fully read the information
kimbers - MemberThat's from 2012 chewk, before the recent surge in immigrants
If only you are not lazy to read further into the second article which was published in 2014.
Are you trying to outdo some news channels? 😆
Isn't Sweden's higher rape level due to:
1. More stringent rape laws. An example I saw was that if your boss makes inappropriate and unwanted physical contact with you once a week for a year, and you finally decide you can't handle it and go to the police then in many of the countries listed that would be either 1 or 0 sexual assaults. In Sweden it would be 52 rapes.
2. Because stuff like that gets treated more seriously in Sweden than many other countries, it's more likely to be reported, so it appears to happen more often.
EDIT: Beaten to the above points
Also
Damm this man is good for the US economy/his own pocket
Wasn't he doing similar during the campaign? Getting supporters to donate to his campaign, when the campaign was renting a huge amount of prime office space from the Trump corporation, paying the Trump corporation to use Trump-Force One to fly to campaign rallys etc. So the money goes into Trumps pocket, via the campaign.
If only you are not lazy to read further into the second article which was published in 2014.Are you trying to outdo some news channels
are you saying you read all 200 pages in 8 minutes
you truly are amazing chewk
of course you wouldnt be posting links as facts without checking through them first?
thatd be trumplike
batfink - Member
Who knew that the kiwis were so rapey?Took you 5 seconds to find that did it? Shame you didn't spend an extra 10 seconds to also find the below.
Trying to wiggle out with definition I see. 😆
kimbers - Member
If only you are not lazy to read further into the second article which was published in 2014.Are you trying to outdo some news channels
are you saying you read all 200 pages in 8 minutes
you truly are amazing chewk
of course you wouldnt be posting links as facts without checking through them first?
thatd be trumplike
You really need to avoid being so obvious coz I see that miles away tbh ... Most on STW are well verse in their "facts" unlike you. See nobody come running to defend you. You know why? Coz they are know you are incorrect and it would much more difficult to defend you. Notice in all your other interweb links. Man ... you need to work harder man. 😆
You really need to avoid being so obvious coz I see that miles away tbh ... Most on STW are well verse in their "facts".
..... so you didnt read it 🙄
chewkw come back after you have investigated the legal definition of rape in those countries.
Where is the emoji for having your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalala. I'm imagining you're not understanding this as it doesn't help your argument but I'll try and explain anyway. Two men have rice importing companies, one records his stock in bags of rice, one in individual grains. The first man says his stock level is 100, the second says his stock level is 200. Who has more rice? I know the second number is bigger but look closely and think about it.
slowoldman - Member
chewkw come back after you have investigated the legal definition of rape in those countries.
😆 Do I now need to study law to understand the article now?
I mean look at that Wiki bar chart Sweden is in the league of it's own! 😯
kimbers - Member
.... so you didnt read it
Look at the Wiki bar chart.
You need to read that bar chart? 😛
If it is that wrong surely you should correct them don't you think so?
Sorry to go back to cancer, but unbelievably Chewy you might be wrong and Kimbers is correct that cancer operations are being cancelled due to the (according to you) non-existant crisis:
Emerg Nurse. 2017 Feb 10;24(9):8-9. doi: 10.7748/en.24.9.8.s8.
Pressures force hospitals to declare major incidents.
Evans N.
Abstract
More than 40% of hospitals in England were forced to declare major incidents during the first week of January, as bed shortages led to delays in emergency departments (EDs), thousands of trolley waits for beds and long queues of ambulances outside units. Even cancer operations, normally protected, were cancelled.
colonel wax - MemberSorry to go back to cancer, but unbelievably Chewy you might be wrong and Kimbers is correct that cancer operations are being cancelled due to the (according to you) non-existant crisis:
Emerg Nurse. 2017 Feb 10;24(9):8-9. doi: 10.7748/en.24.9.8.s8.
Pressures force hospitals to declare major incidents.
Evans N.
Abstract
More than 40% of hospitals in England were forced to declare major incidents during the first week of January, as bed shortages led to delays in emergency departments (EDs), thousands of trolley waits for beds and long queues of ambulances outside units. Even cancer operations, normally protected, were cancelled.
You cannot go around spinning something out of the air you know.
Now go do some homework to show me that NHS is in crisis that causes old age mortality due high cancers rate operation delay.
Get your best brilliant scientist / statistician etc ... to show me that is the case.
😆
You cannot go around spinning something out of the air you know.Now go do some homework to show me that NHS is in crisis that causes old age mortality due high cancers rate operation delay.
Get your best brilliant scientist / statistician etc ... to show me that is the case.
chewy theres no point
you were banging on about trump draining the swamp = no more goldman sachs
now that he has appointed a bevvy of goldman sachs execs, you have gone quiet on that one
why bother showing you facts when you just carry on anyway....
NHS isn't in a crisis. Here's a couple of articles from the BMJ.
BMJ. 2017 Jan 17;356:j296. doi: 10.1136/bmj.j296.
BMA calls for urgent meeting with prime minister to discuss NHS crisis.
BMJ. 2017 Jan 19;356:j283. doi: 10.1136/bmj.j283.
NHS crisis: where should any new money be spent?
Kmietowicz Z1, Iacobucci G1, Rimmer A1.
here's a link to some critical appraisal toolkits http://www.casp-uk.net/casp-tools-checklists
You'll have to adapt them a bit as the articles won't fit in to the study types but it'll give you a standardised method to evaluate them. Start with them then we can look at systematic reviews, meta analysis etc. Might even go with some primary data sets.
That OK?
Oh, sorry to get away from Trump. Will stay on topic from now.
I mean look at that Wiki bar chart Sweden is in the league of it's own!
So after much explanation to you, of why those stats are more complicated than they appear to be and the danger of taking anything at face value before researching the background, you still fail to see the obvious flaws in your simple-minded argument.
Do you actually expect to get taken seriously?
You have work to do
colonel wax - Member
Oh, sorry to get away from Trump. Will stay on topic from now
i think chewy was doing a trump
eg
...My whitehhouse isnt in crisis, flynn didnt have to resign because of his illegal links with russia....... because- Terroist attack in Sweden last night!!!
colonel wax - Member
NHS isn't in a crisis. Here's a couple of articles from the BMJ.
Define crisis.
Show me you have applied "international standard of measurement" to measure crisis.
What is crisis?
Like I said earlier get your world best academic or whatever intelligence you can find on this earth to define NHS crisis.
😛
Look at the Wiki bar chart.
You need to read that bar chart?
If it is that wrong surely you should correct them don't you think so?
You remember you said you don't read the papers, you get all your news from the internet? Well you need to do more research if you do it that way.
... you need to work harder man.
Indeed you do. Do the research.
Is this now the "argue with chewy" thread? I've only skimmed the last page or so, so might have missed some useful content, but every post seems to be from him or a reply to him.
Do you lot not realise how pointless this is? My last post is about the correct level of response to chewy's posts IMHO, unless you have a lot of time to waste.
Is this now the "argue with chewy" thread?
Was thinking the same. Really can't understand why people can't just ignore such an obvious troll. Once you start replying the thread is lost until they go away. Guess people are bored/stupid on both sides...
Okay, it's not about me but President Trump so get back to the topic.
I shall stop replying unless there is something interesting coz you lot are going in the circle.
You really need to find something new about President Trump and if not you should at least solve the riddle I posted few pages ago to get things going.
Chewkw, you posting a dubious bar chart and then ignoring the responses pointing out it's inadequacy, followed by you demanding that people go back and look at the bar chart, is not other people going round in circles. It's you being obtuse and refusing to pay attention to the counter-argument...
