Stupidity or idiocy is the act of doing things that disadvantage yourself and Trump doesn't do that
I'd argue he does.
Nobody would argue Trump isn't a narcissist. So what he says and does time after time demonstrates himself to be an idiot, which disadvantage himself as being seen, and I think at this stage, remembered, as the worse US president of all time.
Trump is a useful idiot. He has used his position to achieve the fleecing of US taxpayers etc .. that is quite easy to do as shown. But none of his great plans have worked out aside from those of destroying things.
*It's interesting to Ai what the greatest achievements of each US president for the last 25yrs has been. All of those listed for Trump have basically been him dismantling things or giving tax breaks to the rich
I don't think Trump is an idiotThere's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
By many accounts he can barely read.
Just as a side note, I think we need to be careful with language. I don't think illiteracy is evidence that anyone is "an idiot". In most circumstances (not in Trump's case obviously) it's evidence of poor education or lack of opportunity, not poor intelligence.
In his case I suspect it's down to laziness, not having to worry about working hard at school due to any worries about having to graft for a living and a lack of curiosity about the world outside his gilded existence.
He certainly lacks emotional intelligence and empathy, but I don't think he's an idiot. The trouble is, any brain power he does have, manifests itself as a malevolent and vindictive cunning.
how he managed to become the president of the USA twice if he's so stupid hanging.
In both cases, because the Democrats shot themselves in the foot. First by having Hilary Clinton as an unpopular candidate, second by covering up Biden's obvious cognitive decline.
That was combined with huge amount of work that the Apprentice producers did to make him seem like a business genius, and his willingness to take populist positions that others would balk at.
Stupidity or idiocy is the act of doing things that disadvantage yourself
By that definition, giving to charity is stupid.
It also misses the point that Trump repeatedly does things that disadvantage himself. One of the reasons that he's surrounded by the current clownshow is that nobody with credibility will work with him because he repeatedly stiffs people, which has been a pattern his whole life. One of the things that always amazes me about narcissists and psychopaths is that they don't put two and two together to realise that what may seem advantageous to them in the moment is likely to harm them in the long run.
Vladimir Putin.
I think Trump admires and likes him that's true enough, and probably has fever dreams of running the USA in a similar fashion. At the same time, I don't think he can be manipulated by him, because [as a malignant narcissist] he thinks that he's at least Putin's equal, and Putin has nothing to offer Trump. Trump (as the USA) controls Russia's oil exports, and I'll bet money that in private meetings, it's Trump telling Putin that he could offer Ukraine anything it wants should he choose it. The fact he doesn't personally like Zylensky is probably more likely the reason Ukraine isn't getting the weaponry it wants, rather than any Putin whispering.
It’s not just Ukraine where changes to USA policy at Trump’s personal instruction just happens to be more favourable to Russia.
But none of his great plans have worked out aside from those of destroying things.
Trump and his sons are quietly working their way around the world making deals that will make them all extremely wealthy. From that perspective his presidency as been very successful indeed, which I would argue, is the only measure Trump is interested in. The rest is just Kayfabe.
It also misses the point that Trump repeatedly does things that disadvantage himself.
Trump is using the presidency for two things. 1. making himself (and his sons) obscenely wealthy and 2. putting his name on everything, because: narcissist. Both of those things seem to be working out just fine
[as a malignant narcissist] he thinks that he's at least Putin's equal, and Putin has nothing to offer Trump
As I understand it, narcissists get "narcissistic supply" in two ways. By exerting power over or humiliating those they consider to be weak or inferior* or by recieving admiration or respect from those they see as strong or powerful.
Trump envies Putin because he has the freedom to do things even he can't do, because some checks and balances still remain. He would love to be in that position.
So Putin does have something to offer Trump. Respect or admiration (feigned of course to manipulate his ego) which gives Trump narcissistic supply.
*See his theatrical humiliation of Zelensky in the Oval office.
Hopefully some body/organisation will have the minerals to investigate this family of grifters.
It’s not just Ukraine where changes to USA policy at Trump’s personal instruction just happens to be more favourable to Russia.
Like Reagan, Trump is terrified of nuclear armageddon, so I think Trump is happy to appease Putin, but I don't think Putin has any sort of power over Trump to make him (Trump) do what he wants. I think Trump like Xi and Putin divide the world up into spheres and at that level it's a game between the three of them to see who comes out on top. I don't think Trump will let Putin do anything other than the things Trump is content to let him do.
I'm kind of agnostic on the monarchy but King Charles did a magnificent speech today in Congress managing to get in numerous amusing digs at Trump (most of which seemed to go way over his head), supported NATO and Ukraine and generally displayed classy statesmanship over the performative rallying that is all Trump can manage.
the oft rumoured peepee tapes? If not actually that, something equally as humiliating.
I've been quite surprised by the shininess and size of Trump's bell. (A deft bit of work from Charlie I thought).
Whether it's a hold over Trump, or a desperate desire to please a man he admires, Trump dances when Putin tugs his strings. And Netanyahu. Domestically he's similarly given support and/or created space for the Project 2025 crowd and tech bros like Thiel and Musk, and Miller is lurking there for the fascist Christian right as well.
It's very chicken and egg as to whether Trump is in active control of this or being controlled.
I've been quite surprised by the shininess and size of Trump's bell. (A deft bit of work from Charlie I thought).
It would have been marvellous if Charlie could have somehow woven the word 'end' into the presentation of said bell.
Watching Hegseth being questioned today in the senate was staggering. It’s absolutely unbelievable that someone could put a moron like that in charge of the most powerful military in the world. He’s a complete buffoon, even when sober, which apparently he rarely is!
It’s no wonder the Iranians are quite happy to just sit back and wait it out. When you’re faced with the complete imbeciles now running the American government and military, why wouldn’t you? Trump and his flag-shagging nodding dogs clearly haven’t got a bloody clue what to do next to end the total shitshow that they’ve started. They’re paralysed and just looking for distractions
Meanwhile oil hits $120 a barrel and the worlds economy goes to shit.
Putin is obviously manipulating Trump. Trump is a russian asset. Whether trump understands this is a different story but it is so obvious
Meanwhile oil hits $120 a barrel and the worlds economy goes to shit.
Going to get a lot worse, $200 a barrel would be closer to pricing in the current disruption. Markets are far too optimistic that this is going to magically go away.
The “markets” have been frighteningly accurate about some things recently….
Putin is obviously manipulating Trump.
How, and with what? Lets have some examples. Trump has all the riches he needs, the USA controls Russia's largest economic output: oil, Trump doesn't give two shits about Ukraine, and doesn't see the reasons why he (aka the USA) should be bothered in the slightest about what happens there. His opinions of NATO are about money, Putin obviously likes this, and often praises Trump in the Russian media for it, but only as it directly serves his purposes, I don't think the idea as come from the Russians and Trump clearly sees Russia as a geo-political enemy - the reason he wants to buy Greenland after all. In his first term the USA expelled 48 Russian 'diplomats' and has withdrawn from treaties (Open Skies and INF) that Putin explicitly wanted to stay in place. Putin and Lavrov lie through their teeth, but then so does Trump, so no one is gaining anything there. Trump is obviously exploitable by flattery, but what exactly has Russia gained from Trump's second term?
I think Trump likes and admires Putin without a doubt, but Putin hasn't got anything Trump wants that he can be manipulated with. I think it looks like it, because they both want the same thing. Total domination of their own countries to do with as they want, but if Trump is being maipulated, it's not going very well, is it?
Putin hasn't got anything Trump wants
Praise and flattery from the world's (second) most powerful totalitarian ruler.
Trump has all the riches he needs,
But not all that he wants. That's what all this instability can give him: the ability to get more. To be the richest, the most important person.
Putin is different from the Techbros that are falling over themselves to give him money: Putin owns a country, not a company and _can't_ just be discarded or screwed over like they can. Trump, as has been said before, admires Putin for how he operates, so that's a match made in hull.
rump, as has been said before, admires Putin for how he operates, so that's a match made in hull.
Is Hull that bad?
I think Trump likes and admires Putin without a doubt, but Putin hasn't got anything Trump wants that he can be manipulated with.
Friendship. Trump is desperate to be Putin's friend but he's been kept at arm's length for decades.
Professor Fiona Hill knows these two well, beginning as a Russian speaker and historian and becoming Deputy Assistant to President Trump in 2017 and Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs on the U.S. National Security Council. Her PhD was "In search of great Russia: elites, ideas, power, the state, and the pre-revolutionary past in the new Russia, 1991–1996." (Thanks wikipedia)
She co-authored UKs Strategic Defence Review (Grauniad link below) and she's a smart cookie
She was a witness to the first impeachment of Donald Trump.
This is her speaking to Politico in 2024.
President Trump always wants to stress that he has a great relationship with Putin. He’s also been very quick to say that talking to Putin would be a wise thing from his perspective, because he believes that being able to talk to the most powerful people on the planet is an asset, not a liability. Well, that would hold true if it weren’t for the fact that the United States is in an adversarial relationship with Russia. And, very sadly, we know through historical precedent and recent practice that just having a good relationship with the top leader of a country doesn’t always result in the good outcomes you’d want to see.
Putin has made it clear that he personally considers that Russia is actually at war with the United States. The war in Ukraine is depicted by Putin as a war with the United States and with the West, and increasingly, a host of other adversaries of the United States are forming a bloc with Russia, including China, Iran and North Korea. We’ve got reports in the last week of thousands of North Korean soldiers being sent into Russia for training and potentially to the battlefield in Ukraine. So, here we have a former president, perhaps a future president, who is focused on his personal relationship with Vladimir Putin, and not on the actual circumstances of what’s going on in the relationship between Russia and the United States.
Praise and flattery from the world's (second) most powerful totalitarian ruler.
Trump expects that from everyone he meets
Professor Fiona Hill knows these two well, beginning as a Russian speaker and historian and becoming Deputy Assistant to President Trump in 2017 and Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs on the U.S. National Security Council. Her PhD was "In search of great Russia: elites, ideas, power, the state, and the pre-revolutionary past in the new Russia, 1991–1996." (Thanks wikipedia)
She co-authored UKs Strategic Defence Review (Grauniad link below) and she's a smart cookie
She was a witness to the first impeachment of Donald Trump.
This is her speaking to Politico in 2024.
Fiona Hill was interviewed by Maitlis and Sopel on The Newsagents this week. Interesting to listen to a genuine expert discussing these exact issues, in particular whether or not Trump is a Russian asset.
Trump, as has been said before, admires Putin
Without a doubt, and I totally agree that Trump is somewhat susceptible to flattery - but is also his default position for anyone he meets anyway. In order to show that Putin can manipulate him, you have to be able to show that Trump has made decisions that otherwise he wouldn't have made himself.
The difference here, is that what "The USA" or the world might want and what "Trump" wants aren't necessarily always the same thing. Trump doesn't give any weight to any security briefing or negotiation plan that anyone from the NSA or CIA or the State dept is going to give him, he's just not paying attention to any of that shit
Example - Trump's attitude to Ukraine is somewhat contradictory, he couldn't care less about the actuality of the war on the ground or the effect it has more broadly in Eastern Europe. On the other hand he does give a shit that he wants to be the one at the centre of any peace negotiation, because he wants a Nobel Peace Prize (because Obama) so he's content to not supply Ukraine with Tomahawks - a Putin request on a phone call, because Trump's view is that it's a easy give way as part of a negotiation to get Putin to peace talks.
Trump doesn't like Zelensky, doesn't care about Ukraine, doesn't understand the implications, and doesn't want to supply him weapons anyway. Putin doesn't need to be some Svengali-alike master manipulator here, he's just pushing on an open door that Trump doesn't give a shit about. Putin hasn't changed Trump's attitude significantly. The danger is not that Putin can manipulate him, its that they are broadly aligned already.
But that doesn't make him a Russian asset either. Read any account of anyone who's ever done any business with Trump and you'll get the same story - "Trump never pays his creditors, and always stiffs everyone" . So if Putin or any other world leader thinks they have the angle on Trump. They probably don't. What you think think you've got Trump to agree to, Trump doesn't give a shit about
we're all seeing in real time what happens when an actual narcissist with probably some psychopathy gets to the position of POTUS, Putin can't manipulate Trump because Trump genuinely doesn't care about Putin at all. It much much worse than we all think
But that doesn't make him a Russian asset either.
If he helps Russia's aims and objectives then he's an asset.
What it doesn't make him is a covert human agent (a spy in common parlance) who realises some kind of interest in being an asset
If he helps Russia's aims and objectives then he's an asset.
This ^^.
He's the Useful Idiot version of an asset, same way that Liz Truss was a Useful Idiot to her Tufton Street paymasters.
The asset doesn't need to know or care either way.
If he helps Russia's aims and objectives then he's an asset.
Trump is a liability to everyone; including the Russians - because he's a malignant narcissist with advanced dementia. If Putin thinks that Trump is going to let them do what they want because of some sort of prior agreement or conversation they've had in the past, or even what Putin thinks he's agreed with Trump I reckon he's headed for a rude awakening. If Trump suddenly decides that say - all Russian shadow oil fleet should be sunk or impounded...
...you have to be able to show that Trump has made decisions that otherwise he wouldn't have made himself.
Like invade Iran?
Ok, that is more Bibi than Vlad, but would Trump _really_ have decided to do that on his own, without the steering from outside parties? I think not.
If you are going to make someone an asset to you (as a nation state or a group), ultimately it boils down to four things (I think):
- Money
- Ideology
- Ego
- Coercion
I look at Trump and his relationship with the world and I see someone that, apart from ideology, could be swayed/steered/corrupted by just about anything. You flatter him, he says nice things about you. You give him money, he does stuff for you. You have shit on him, you could probably force him to do stuff, but I'd say people would be better off just treating him as transactional and being smart about what you paid for.
Actually, I guess you could say he does have an ideology, but that it's all about how he can become the best person in the world, unlike Hegseth who might actually believe in the crusader Christian bullshit, but I guess is also equally open to ego and coercion (and probably money given the kids and ex-wives).
If you are going to make someone an asset to you (as a nation state or a group), ultimately it boils down to four things (I think):
- Money
- Ideology
- Ego
- Coercion
This is what made Boris such a security threat too!
Do you think that anyone in either Israel or Russia think that Trump's an asset right now? I bet they don't. he's way too unreliable
I look at Trump and his relationship with the world and I see someone that, apart from ideology, could be swayed/steered/corrupted by just about anything
Only if Trump thinks there's something in it for him personally, and the higher the stakes, the more trump wants. Someone said on here that for the right amount of money you could get trump to do anything. So far his name's been redacted from Epstein, anything from those files has just washed away, his health records are falsified, his tax affairs are still shrouded in mystery and SCOTUS are doing their very best to make sure he has immunity to any decision he takes, and his sons are scuttling around the world making them all fabulously wealthy What are you offering him that he doesn't have?
Trump wants a Nobel peace prize, they've said they're not going to give him one, so any edge that Putin may have had over him has been wiped away in an instant, Trump's entirely disinterested in Ukraine now, and Europe are picking up what Trump's discarded and Putin has lost any negotiating advantage he thought he might have had.
Manipulation doesn’t have to be transactional. Often it’s about promoting (either directly or indirectly) someone whose worldview plays into your agenda.
This is the mistake that people in all sorts of areas (particularly doctors) make. They assume that because there’s been no quid pro quo, that there hasn’t been manipulation.
Trump was in financial trouble. He was rescued by Russian financiers lending to him when no one else would, added to which lots of Russian linked Oligarchs bought his apartments.
Trump, for whatever reason, didn’t look too closely at the people on the other side of these agreements. Which, to be fair to him, many other people in the West weren’t doing at the time either.
This led to him being sympathetic to doing business with Russia. It’s not too hard to see how a bit of flattery could further encourage his political ambitions.
Then you’ve got the Russian interference in the US election process.
The Steele dossier then raises the spectre that there’s Kompromat on him. Possibly not something as lurid as golden showers, but who knows?
The best way to manipulate someone is when they don’t even know that they’ve been manipulated.
I think we're in the usual STW pattern of hair splitting over precise terminology here now.
Trump acts in the interests of Russia and Israel rather than the traditional "western" interests. Deliberately or not, that makes him useful - an asset if you will - to those regimes.
Anyway, Hegseth in Congress yesterday went as well as you'd expect.
Manipulation doesn’t have to be transactional. Often it’s about promoting (either directly or indirectly) someone whose worldview plays into your agenda.
This is the mistake that people in all sorts of areas (particularly doctors) make. They assume that because there’s been no quid pro quo, that there hasn’t been manipulation.
Trump was in financial trouble. He was rescued by Russian financiers lending to him when no one else would, added to which lots of Russian linked Oligarchs bought his apartments.
Trump, for whatever reason, didn’t look too closely at the people on the other side of these agreements. Which, to be fair to him, many other people in the West weren’t doing at the time either.
There's also the small issue of Paul Manafort.
Direct influence of Trump needn't be more than simply being flattering. But the people around trump's campaign were making some decent cash helping launder Ukrainian corruption before Zelensky came to power on an anti-corruption campaign. So removing the teat those people had been suckling on along with Trump's idiotic call to Zelensky that lead to his first impeachment means theres an air of bitterness around Zelensky. So theres an mood internally within Trump's circle that is anti Ukraine that Putin is able to tweak and attenuate with little bits of flattery.
The biggest lever Putin has really is Trump is basically jealous of him. He's an admirer of Putin not in the sense that he share his agenda but in the sense that Putin can just do what he wants without consequence. Not pesky courts, no pesky impeachments, no pesky press. That gives Putin an aura that trump is drawn to
You can see it in relation to Iran too - both an enemy and an inspiration - the maga regime is both trying to destroy an undemocratic theocracy and is simultaneously becoming a cosplay version of it.
Perhaps its about time the various news agencies and podcasts such as Fiona Hill was recently on need to invite nickc on to counter her arguments, after all she's only devoted her entire life to the study of Russia and its political structure.
I didn't realise we had a geopolitical expert amongst us on STW.
He's an admirer of Putin not in the sense that he share his agenda but in the sense that Putin can just do what he wants without consequence. Not pesky courts, no pesky impeachments, no pesky press. That gives Putin an aura that trump is drawn to
Trump can and is already doing all those things. SCOTUS has made him immune to prosecution, Epstein files haven't touched him, Press and academia in US has been broadly neutered. He has a DoJ ready and willing to go after any political enemy and a private army- ICE who're completely loyal to Trump going after anyone they want internally and a military that's excised any disagreement by either firing or inviting Generals and Admirals to retire, and is led by a man who thinks he's on a mission from God, and he has his own media channels and echo chambers - How is the modern US any different de-facto than Putin's Russia?
Edit: a couple of weeks ago, he stuck up a post on SM portraying himself as Jesus, and he's still the President, I think we can all draw the obvious conclusion?
It looks like Putin's manipulating him when in reality it's just that they both want to behave the same way anyway.
of course Putin is manipulating Trump. Allowing russian oil ships to bust sanctions isthe latest pro Putin move by Trump. There have been loads of similar things.
I find it hard to believe that you really think he is not. Russia has had a dossier on trump for decades and has cultivatedhim k owing exactly how to manipulate him. Its not total control but for sure Russia nudges him in direction they want
I find it hard to believe that you really think he is not.
Because I don't think Trump gives a single shit about what Putin thinks or wants, and to be manipulated there has to be a quid pro quo. Trump is a malignant narcissist who has spent his entire his entire life making sure that whomever he does deals with goes away thinking that they have a deal that Trumps' going to be good for, when in fact Trump doesn't care at all about any deal that anyone thinks they may have made with him. This is a pattern he's maintained throughout his life, with everyone from building contractors to banks.
Regardless of what Trump has said to you, you haven't made a deal with Trump. He's zero sum, remember? He's a completely unreliable negotiator. Ask the Iranians
They've even got our flag upside down!!!
