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In the last year or so I've noticed more and more eating places are allowing dogs inside. As someone who is frightened of dogs, it's not ideal. Certainly outside, well behaved dogs are not a problem.
Lately I've seen owners let the wet, muddy pawed dogs sit on chairs, let the wet dog shake itself all over sitting customers and some having the dogs on their laps and feeding their dogs tit bits.
Dog ownership in our country has nearly doubled and some are not well trained.
Surely it isn't hygienic either (after watching the serving staff stroke and let dogs lick their hands).
I've had many pets in the past but would never ever take them into a place which served food.
Surely it isn’t hygienic either (after watching the serving staff stroke and let dogs lick their hands).
I think I would prefer someone to stroke a dog and serve me food rather than shake the hand of a customer and then serve me.
We always ask before we go in, and always ask people at the tables around if they are ok with her being there.
As above a dog is no less clean than a human
As someone who is frightened of dogs, it’s not ideal
I get that, and I dont know the answer to that, well I kind of do. Before I met my wife I was frightened of dogs. I then had to adopt a near 30kg nuts Boxer dog that when I first met her I thought was going to eat me alive. 15 years later and on 2nd Boxer dog and love dogs and probably wouldnt be without one. Have you thought about trying to over come your fear? Do you know anyone whos got dogs that you could spend some time around?
Couldn't agree more. No place for any animals (apart from assistance of course) where people are eating indoors in public.
Waiters stroking dogs whilst 'at work' makes me cringe.
I love dogs and have had them all of my adult life. In general it is brilliant that dogs are allowed in more restaurants. Years ago I used to see dogs in the fanciest of restaurants in Frnace and thought we should be the same.
There is always a caveat, even as a dog lover I will not sit in a restaurant next to a great big filthy smelling dog. It puts me right off my food but as always this is where the owners need to apply common sense. Hence we are doomed.
Sometimes it's acceptable.
I’ve noticed more and more eating places are allowing children inside. As someone who is frightened of children, it’s not ideal. Certainly outside, well behaved children are not a problem.
Lately I’ve seen owners let the sticky, snotty children sit on chairs, let the snotty child wipe its snot all over sitting customers and some having the children on their laps and or on the tables.Child ownership in our country has nearly doubled and some are not well trained.
Surely it isn’t hygienic either (if you've ever seen a child, you'll know). I’ve seen many children in the past but would never ever take them into a place which served food.
Just so you know, that will be the argument you're up against!
Rule 1 surely...
We were on hol last week in Northumberland, with dog.
we went to 5 different places for lunch with said dog.
Dog sat under table at all time, no shaking off coat, no sitting in chairs or paws up.
Most of the places had other dogs doing much the same as ours. The majority of establishments have pretty strict rules about not letting dogs onto chairs and ask folk to leave if they see it happening, which is normally soon after entry and before any orders placed.
If the restaurant/cafe/pub allows it then what's the problem? There are plenty of places that don't allow dogs so you have the choice to use one of those instead.
Obviously (I assume) nobody has a problem with guide dogs (other assistance animals may also apply!) inside restaurants. By extension I'm OK with any other dog that is as well-behaved and well-trained as a guide dog. I'm not frightened of dogs and quite enjoy playing with a friendly dog; children are similar. At today's hospitality prices I'm paying for an experience - if your other customers ruin my experience (with dugs or kids) I'll be far less likely to return.
Just so you know, that will be the argument you’re up against!
Yep - children should be left outside with a bottle to pop and a bag of crisps like it used to be! 🙂
Mixed views. I love to see dogs in a country pub, even if they serve food (the pub not the dogs). I think along with things like an open fire, it really adds to the atmosphere of a friendly, welcoming pub. In my experience most people who take dogs in places like that have reasonably well behaved dogs (of course there are exceptions). It should go without saying that dogs on seats is unacceptable. I do understand why people who are anxious around dogs wouldn't like it though.
However, I wouldn't like to see dogs in a 'proper' restaurant. There's no real logic to that - both places serving food.
There are plenty of places that don’t allow dogs so you have the choice to use one of those instead.
That's assuming you are somewhere with a choice. In many smaller towns and villages there might only be one option and these are the sorts of locations that outdoor-type doggy-owners like to go.
I like dogs. I don't mind them being around when I'm eating - as long as they are behaving sensibly. But I do also understand that might upset some folk. I don't think there's an easy answer, other than dog owners doing a decent bit of training and serving staff ensuring the dogs aren't on furniture, annoying customers etc. and in that case I don't see there's a hygiene issue either.
Like others, we were on holiday recently with our dog (Norfolk for us). Everywhere we went welcomed dogs (which was actually a pleasant surprise) and I didn't once see dogs shaking themselves dry, sitting on chairs, jumping up etc. Ours was always well-behaved and sat under the table at all times as she knows she has to do. I certainly don't recognise any of the OPs experiences of badly behaved dog owners but, if I did, I would hope that the owner/manager of the establishment would deal with it.
I'd ban children from restaurants long before dogs.
Eating establishments have figured dog owners are a large market that may have been alienating.
As a (super well behaved dog) owner I'm all for it. As above I always ask if other patrons are happy to have Bert near them. He is always chilled and quiet and knows he's in restaurant mode and what is expected of him.
Anyone feeding a dog titbits from the table are probably the ones throwing dog shit in the trees and letting them off lead inappropriately.
If the restaurant/cafe/pub allows it then what’s the problem? There are plenty of places that don’t allow dogs so you have the choice to use one of those instead.
Do they advertise this when you book? Or how do you propose dealing with it if you have already ordered when Mutley turns up? It does seem to be increasingly common - either it was always allowed but few exploited it or the boom in dog ownership coinciding with the slump in hospitality makes it hard for resteraunteurs to know which customers to please. Unless people vocalise a grumble (as bunnyhop is doing here) some may assume everyone thinks dogs are wonderful.
We [...] always ask people at the tables around if they are ok with her being there.
Whilst that seems like you are being polite - have you considered if everyone who isn't happy is actually going to tell you? have you considered that I have no idea if your dog is the most docile lazy thing around or the most excitable yappy little creature if you are eating and she is not - so I could have no real basis to provide an informed opinion but once you've "obtained my consent" its even harder for me to tell you that your mutt is out of order (now I'm not saying I don't like dugs, I'm saying I don't like your dug, or the way you control your dug - which is much like telling someone how to raise their kids).
I have an autistic daughter who is extremely scared of dogs. We have had to move tables and in a very few instances leave meals early because someone with a large dog has come and sat down next to our table. Its just one more thing we have to negotiate unfortunately. Sometimes owners are quick to realise and happy to move to another table further away but most don't get it and anyway most places don't have many tables free anyway. I've found also unfortunately that badly trained dogs and stupid insensitive owners go hand in hand so its a double whammy.
Personally, though not in the least scared of dogs, I think they have invaded too many places as there are just so many of them now. I used to really enjoy seeing a well behaved dog at the feet of his owner in a local pub, but like many things this has been spoilt by sheer numbers and idiots. I really don't know what the solution is but we go out less now with our eldest (she's an adult now) as its just too much of a lottery.
To be honest the same can be said of children in certain places and despite having my own, there were certain places and times I wasn't keen for my or anybodies children to be hanging around. Drinking pubs, especially in the evening is one of them - there needs to be somewhere adults can be away from kids.
I am biased as we take our dog into pubs and resteraunts if they let us, but I have seen way more misbeaving/screaming/ferral/playing ipad games at full volume with no parent stepping in to tell them to behave/quieten down than dogs.
A lot of places (not all) have dog, and dog free sections.
Staff should be washing their hands frequently, and there's probably worse on the chairs/used cutlery based on the number of people I see not washing their hands after using the toilet.
Ours just likes to people watch, and doesn't shake inside, and we wipe him down if it's wet. I see more mud from shoes that paws.
Edited to add that we would change tables if there was a fear of dogs, and that was alerted to us, if not, well neither of us are psychic.
this. And I don't particularly like dogs 😂.I’d ban children from restaurants long before dogs.
I think there's a time and a place for everything.
Country pub where they serve hearty food and you drop in for a pint and a pie after a walk, no problem at all. It'd be expected and in some of these places, the dog is the cleanest thing in there.
In a nicer bar/restaurant, I'm less sure about. Though saying that, dogs were allowed in the (sadly now closed) 2 Michelin Star Le Gavroche.
And yes, the same "time and place" applies to kids too. If you go to a Toby Carvery at Sunday lunch then I'd expect them to be there, if I go to Le Gavroche then I wouldn't. And like your dog, keep them well behaved and no-one minds.
Like most things, isn't it just a case of "don't be a d**k"? If your dog is noisy, jumps up and/or leaves a trail of mess behind then leave them at home. If they stroll in, fall asleep silently under the table only stirring for piece of pork scratching then go for it.
I’ve owned dogs all my adult life. I also like to eat out. I’ll happily take my dog into a pub, after checking first to make sure they are welcome, or sit outside at cafes etc, but personally I think they should not be in restaurants or eating sections of pubs
Dog ownership and dog etiquette in the UK has changed, in recent years . The staycation boom due to the pandemic had a doubling effect if you like, with more and more hotels, BnBs allowing pets to ensure they kept up with demand which in itself had increased as more and more people had acquired dogs during the lockdowns
The next part of the equation, the etiquette changes here, because people who wouldn’t previously have had dogs are now on holiday with them. Not intending to be holier than thou, but many of these pets or indeed their owners haven’t been through much training (no puppy classes due to covid for example) and altered working patterns mean dogs aren’t being used to being left alone for any period of time
Pet friendly hotels always come with the rule that the pet cannot be left alone in the room , so anyone eating out has to take the dog with them
We had a short break in Thumberland. The dog came with us and was thoroughly spoilt by the staff in the hotel bar, but we sat aside from the other guests at breakfast at our request so the dog didn’t offend anyone
We ate out each evening, and the dog stayed in her dogbox in the back of my truck. We noted in one rather nice bistro, that we were the only people without a dog
Only one thing for it. Ban all dogs.
You could lock them up in a "dog shed" outside.
The well behaved dogs aren't a problem, it's the crap dog owners who haven't trained their dogs so they bark and growl at everything and also lurch about
Same goes for poorly trained children/adults etc.
If the dog is well behaved I don't see the problem, assistance dogs are allowed after all, and they aren't intrinsically different animals. So long as it sits under the table and keeps reasonably quiet it's no worse than the shoes you're wearing.
If you're scared of dogs, tough. If you were scared of people would you expect the clientele to clear out for your convenience?
Of course badly behaved dogs aren't acceptable. And if a cafe chooses to ban dogs, that's their business and I've no problem with it either way round.
It's up to the restaurant to decide.
Agree about owners treating them like fur babies though.
Lola come with us most places. Very well behaved, much adored by most.
I have never, ever not witnessed serving staff clean their hands immediately after.
I can certainly empathise with a fear of dogs and we always check our surroundings any close customers human or other dogs to see if there are going to be any issues. But sometimes we are in places where it's packed, with loads of dogs. Thats alot of custom to turn away with a blanket ban.
It's disgusting. I don't really know why owners can't tie them up outside like they did ten years ago. And if they're worried about the dog getting nicked, change your plans.
Dogs are much bigger vectors of disease than people. Dog turds have several million clostridium perfringens spores in them. These cause sickness and diarrhoea in people. Human turds have roughly none, if you're healthy, and sheep turds only a few tens of spores. Dogs are taken out on walks, have a dump, roll in fox shit (which also has several million spores in it), then owners take their dirty dog with an unwiped arse into an eating establishment, awash with these spores. Staff pet the filthy thing, then serve food. The dog hangs around, leaving spores everywhere it sits. They don't belong anywhere near food.
Edit.
Anyone feeding a dog titbits from the table are probably the ones throwing dog shit in the trees and letting them off lead inappropriately.
Or, just a thought, maybe there is no correlation between the two at all.
Oh, I forget, this is STW and being judgemental and drawing stupid conclusions is expected.
As long as it’s clear that dogs are allowed then I don’t see an issue, and you can choose whether to go there or not. It is after all the right of the landlord to make up the rules
dogs on chairs is not something I’ve ever experienced in all my years of pub visits, and I’d agree that’s not on
I must say I’ve never seen a badly behaved dog in a restaurant, nor has a dog ever spoiled my lunch. On numerous occasions badly behaved kids have however, so as above I’d ban them long before dogs
as for unhygienic..every restaurant I go to appears to have some little scamp infected with some kind of plague at the next table, coughing and spluttering away. You are far far more likely to get some kind of infection from them than you would a dog
Dogs and their entitled owners in eateries can FRO for me. I'd rather go hungry.
Now we're talking, was looking a bit dull in here with no gross overreactions.
Let's the rammie commence.
McDonalds doesn't allow dogs, so thats always an option for a nice clean meal.
Oh and most blokes I see leaving the toilets haven't washed their hands so that means everything else they touch is piss stained as well. A bit of mud off a dog is probably quite hygenic in comparison....
I'll post this amended warning from Mark's Gaza thread as this could get heated!... 🤣
[i]
As a way to allow the debate I am starting this topic. For now this is the only place where the DOGS IN EATING ESTABLISHMENTS issue can be discussed. This is entirely for the benefit of the mods so we can keep a close eye on things.
HOWEVER! Normal rules do not apply on this single topic.
You MUST NOT resort to personal insults. You can disagree with a POV but as son as you step over the line from the debate to any form of derogatory comment about a fellow forum user then you WILL be sanctioned.
RULE 1 APPLIES AT ALL TIMES!
If you cross the line (and that line is entirely at our discretion) you will be banned for a lengthy period of time. Life bans are always an option for us.[/i]
Its nice to be able to go indoors in more places to eat with our dog - we dont let her on the seats, feed her anything but her own food and stop her bothering people.
As she's still a puppy she does get a lot of interest from people wanting to stroke her, which is great for socialising her.
However, I sympathise with the OP and dont have any easy answers (of course!).
Restaurants (to my mind) are different from cafes in that I would expect that if a restaurant allowed dogs it should be in a specific restricted area - so that people dont have to sit with / near dogs to eat.
That's what happens at our local foodie pub abd seems to work well.
I can also understand people not wanting "to make a fuss" and speak to dog owners and ask them to move or speak to the venue and ask for dogs to be moved - I'm not saying that they shouldn't say anything, but maybe they arent comfortable doing so.
It's a tough one.
Si
Dogs are much bigger vectors of disease than people
absolute nonsense.
i have had dogs all my life and never picked up a disease from them. I have however picked up numerous diseases from people
As previously stated you are far more likely to pick up germs from humans in a pub than a dog. Whether that be a cold virus, or from some filthy bugger taking a dump then not washing his hands. One study showed that over 90% of restroom door handles were covered in pathogenic bacteria. Which is a nice thought.
It’s disgusting. I don’t really know why owners can’t tie them up outside like they did ten years ago. And if they’re worried about the dog getting nicked, change your plans.
Dogs are much bigger vectors of disease than people. Dog turds have several million clostridium perfringens spores in them. These cause sickness and diarrhoea in people. Human turds have roughly none, if you’re healthy, and sheep turds only a few tens of spores. Dogs are taken out on walks, have a dump, roll in fox shit (which also has several million spores in it), then owners take their dirty dog with an unwiped arse into an eating establishment, awash with these spores. Staff pet the filthy thing, then serve food. The dog hangs around, leaving spores everywhere it sits. They don’t belong anywhere near food.
Can you show us on the doll where the dog touched you?
Hygiene issues aside, if you are scared of dogs, why do you expect the dog owners to do anything to accommodate your irrational fear?
Dogs are much bigger vectors of disease than people.
2020 to 2022 would like a word!
Hygiene issues aside, if you are scared of dogs, why do you expect the dog owners to do anything to accommodate your irrational fear?
Because most people aren't arseholes. I would do everything I could to help, mov, move the dog. I would probably cut short a meal if it was a real issue. Alot would depend on the behaviour of the humans.
We tend to sit in a corner with dog coralled. This avoids too much disturbance of the pooch who can get a bit stressed if there's too much fuss of him and noise from the other patrons. (Stress manifests as panting and a bit of fidgeting).
We have also moved on if there's all ready dogs in place as too many are a pain as far as i'm concerned and not all of them will leave other dogs alone.
"Or, just a thought, maybe there is no correlation between the two at all.
Oh, I forget, this is STW and being judgemental and drawing stupid conclusions is expected."
Of course there is, if Fido's owner doesn't understand the constant discipline, leadership and structure that dog needs all its life (including not eating from a plate/table/titbits) then how do they know that dog shit shouldn't be swinging from trees?
Wetherspoons don't allow dogs, so that should provide a nice environment to have a nice quiet meal. Oh wait....
Hygiene issues aside, if you are scared of dogs, why do you expect the dog owners to do anything to accommodate your irrational fear?
What if the vegan on the next table objected to you eating meat?
What if the Agoraphobic objected to you in general?
Public places contain the public doing publicly acceptable things in public. Unless there's a gross violation of Rule 1 then you've just got to live with it.