[Closed] Does Nick Griffin have a point? Yes, that Nick Griffin...

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See, a simple yes or no would allow some engagement and discussion. If you would rather avoid that, then carry on posting those kinds of responses

I really just don't know how to respond.

I guess the short answer is that a all of the gay people I've known who I've had this type of discussion with believe they were born gay. Who am I to argue?

Right, so what what do you think is the mechanism of that? Do you think it is genetic?

Who am I to argue?

I was hoping, a reasonable rationale, research-informed person who is capable of making up their own mind and not just taking someone else's post-hoc rationalisations.

binners; since I joined this forum, you've done little but make crass and provocative comments towards me. Are you one of the 'big hitters', who everyone has to look up to? This forum' syour 'manor' and evertyone has to respect you?

sorry, but I don't see how your earlier comments about 'explody' Muslims are at all funny. And I suspect you'd not make them so readily if you were in fact in a place where there are lots of Muslim people. So I don't see as how you should go unchalleneged for making them on here. if you don't want to be challenged, then don't make ignorant statements.

Now, how about attempting to justify your comment from earlier:

You can't discriminate against Muslims. They get a bit,... you know... a bit... explody!

So, is that all Muslims then? It's just that all the ons iknow and work with are pretty amicable peaceful folk who like a good laugh. Hence why Sun reader style comments like yours aren't actually 'funny' to me. Or to a group of people who\'ve had to endure mistrust, hate and ostracisation since the west decided Islam was the new Communism. Do you actually know any Muslims yourself? i don't imagine you meet an awful lot in that pub you spend so much time in (when you're not on here of course. which, i wouldn't imagine, leaves much time for biking).

Speaking of pubs; it's home time. Once again, have a nice weekend mate.

I am serious. Are there folks who really believe that people are born gay?

Yep. Definitely home time. have a good one folks!

See, a simple yes or no would allow some engagement and discussion.

Do you think that there's a choice?
I mean, do you believe that you could give sex to a man? (I'm assuming you're male)

[i]Do you think it is genetic? [/i]

Unless they're indoctrinated in the womb by a mother with an agenda one must assume it is, yes?

The nature/nurture debate is very interesting, on many levels, but perhaps not so relevant to this debate. I know people have asked about "being born Christian", which does imply that they do believe you can be "born gay", but, whether nature or nurture, or both, are responsible for sexuality is rather irrelevant. The point is, it's not a choice, or an opinion. People can, and regularly do, change their mind on religion, but I'm not aware that anyone has changed their mind on whether to be gay or not.

Even that though is fairly irrelevant to the debate, since you cannot legally discriminate against people for either their religion or their sexuality, they are treated the same in law.

Unless they're indoctrinated in the womb by a mother with an agenda one must assume it is, yes?

Then you would expect that there would clearly be lots of identical twins who would share the same sexuality, right?

The nature/nurture debate is very interesting, on many levels, but perhaps not so relevant to this debate.

Well, if one line of argument is 'Show me someone who was born Christian' then it is relevant

Maybe one of them is pretending to be heterosexual?

People can, and regularly do, change their mind on religion, but I'm not aware that anyone has changed their mind on whether to be gay or not.

Why do you see it as a polarisation rather than a continuum? People may become more or less gay over time. Have you never 'experimented'?

Maybe one of them is pretending to be heterosexual?

Is that the extent of your argument?

binners; since I joined this forum, you've done little but make crass and provocative comments towards me.

I try to resist Mike. Honestly I do. But nature abhors a vacuum 😉

Are you one of the 'big hitters', who everyone has to look up to? This forum' syour 'manor' and evertyone has to respect you?

*shudders* Jesus! If anyone [i]respected[/i] me, I'd be off like a shot, never to return. Why would anyone respect someone who spouts constant flippant shite? 😆

Anyway... have a good weekend. Pity I couldn't join you in the pub. You sound like an absolute barrel of laughs.

[i]People may become more or less gay over time[/i]

Is there a 'gayness' scale that you work from?

Quentin Crisp at one end and chuck norris aty the other?

[i]Is that the extent of your argument? [/i]

well all you've done was ask a question. At least I've answered one...

Well, if one line of argument is 'Show me someone who was born Christian' then it is relevant

I did suggest that that argument was not relevant either.

So on a scale of 1-10 how gay are you?

Can I just ask if anyone has seen that Cameron chap in the same room as Mr Griffin?

Is there a 'gayness' scale that you work from?

Not Specifically but if you think such a thing is necessary for you construction of 'gay' then you might use the Kinsey scale or any elaboration of it since 1948, if you prefer, you could use the Klein Grid which has more dimensions.

Does the specific scale I work from, have any bearing on your argument?

Is that the extent of your argument?

well all you've done was ask a question. At least I've answered one...

Ok, then so you are telling me that gayness is genetic, and where it appears that identical twins are of different sexual orientation, it is only because one of them is pretending?

Quentin Crisp at one end and chuck norris aty the other?

that only works if the line that your sliding scale is on is a circle

So on a scale of 1-10 how gay are you?

That is a rather private matter for me, but if you would like to know yourself. This is an easy entrance...
http://www.okcupid.com/quizzy/take

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are. Isn't it kind if an 'either you are or you aren't thing' ?

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are. Isn't it kind if an 'either you are or you aren't thing' ?

I think they do, I'm sure peopel say things like "I'm not very religious" or "she's very religious" or "I'm not at all religious"

But, it would be nice if you answered my earlier questions

Are there folks who really believe that people are born gay?

I don't know as "born" is the correct word. You're born asexual, in so far as pre-pubescents aren't particularly straight / gay / bi etc. But when sexuality asserts itself during puberty, we have no control over that; some people are attracted to same-sex partners in the same way that some may be attracted to blondes, goths or antelopes. It's not a choice, it's a reaction, you can't help it any more than you can help getting a stiffy watching Nigella making whipped cream.

Whether that's genetic or not, I don't know, not really my field. It would appear so, no?

wwaswas - Member

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are

Maybe not consciously, but there definately are degrees of religion- people observe their faith to various degrees.

'I'm a bit gay but I didn't swallow so it doesn't count?'

Re your earlier question: I have no idea. I cant imagine ever wanting to have sex with a man so assume I'm genetically hetero. I'm perfectly willing to believe people I meet who make the same assumption about their gayness.

Re your earlier question: I have no idea.

Ah, sorry. I thought you were arguing from and informed position, not just guessing. Ok, that should make your views easier to understand. Thanks this clears things up a bit

'I'm a bit gay but I didn't swallow so it doesn't count?'

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but to be honest I think it might be a bit reductive and offensive

Once again...

Does the specific scale I work from, have any bearing on your argument?

I've lost track of what my argument was, tbh, and I have to get my daughter to Guides so I'll leave you calibrating your gaydar and say cheerio.

My right leg is as gay as a hayrick full of hares on a humid day in may.. whereas most of the rest of my body is hetrosexual with a fragrant scent of peach blossom.. my appendix however is very very bisexual, no matter which scale you use to measure it..
Even with such a glistening rainbow of sexual diversity going on I still choose above all, to be a merchant banker..

You think people are born gay? It's genetic? There is a Gay gene? have you published these findings?

Sexuality is complicated - maybe it's got a genetic element to it, maybe not. What is pretty certain is that it's not a matter of choice. Whereas religion is.

I've lost track of what my argument was, tbh, and I have to get my daughter to Guides so I'll leave you calibrating your gaydar and say cheerio.

I thought so. After starting out defending the gay rights, you end with a little joke about cocksucking gays and some stereotypical generalisation about 'gaydar'. Well, thanks for your support.

Sexuality is complicated - maybe it's got a genetic element to it, maybe not. What is pretty certain is that it's not a matter of choice. Whereas religion is.

But that ignores all the social, cultural and environmental influences, amongst others, which make people either grow up religious or turn religious. It's not as though anyone one day says "i'm going to start believing in God today'"

I just said that 🙂

Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

If you refuse, perhaps now is the time to ask your wife or girlfreind how she feels about a lesbian nurse or Gp giving her a cervical smear test, women just see it as part of a medical investigation.

Discrimination is still engrained in a lot of peoples minds they just decide when to shout theyre not discriminateing while keeping quiet about personnel matters.

Also noticed there are not many openly gay cyclists willing to comment on the above posts, tells you a lot about discrimination in the cycling fraternity.

would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

is that really an issue in this day and age..!?

I do martial arts with a (very) gay man. I don't feel threatened at all. Besides, I don't think he fancies me.

But that ignores all the social, cultural and environmental influences, amongst others, which make people either grow up religious or turn religious. It's not as though anyone one day says "i'm going to start believing in God today'"

Isn't that called being "born again"? Though often an ingestion of a large quantity of drugs seems to be required.

It's still a choice. It might be a choice under duress, but they're adults in a western democracy, and they're choosing to be offended.

My hair, what's left of it is definitely bisexual.
Sometimes it's straight, sometimes not.

or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

especially since Gay men report, having slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.

Bogaert AF, Hershberger S (1999). "The relation between sexual orientation and penile size". Arch Sex Behav 28 (3): 213–21.

Isn't that called being "born again"? Though often an ingestion of a large quantity of drugs seems to be required.

It's still a choice. It might be a choice under duress,

Not really, I don't think they could choose not to change their beliefs, that's the nature of belief isn't it?

So no-one stops believing in god?

So no-one stops believing in god?

they do, but not by choice. Their beliefs change, and that's not by choice either

[quote=project ]Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.
How would I even be aware of a doctors sexuality? Is it that they'd all be wearing pink shirts or something?

Their beliefs change, and that's not by choice either

So any time someone changes their mind about something, that's not their choice? When I changed my mind about what I had for breakfast, that was a change of mental state that was outside my control? Or is it only changes of mind about religious matters that are outside our control?

Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

Yes, the same way as I'd allow a woman to do it. I'm reasonably sure that both would be able to retain a level of professionalism rather than being driven wild with uncontrollable desire or accidentally slip and fall on my cock.

This might come as a shock, but just because someone is gay doesn't automatically mean they fancy you.