Do you see yourself as a mountain biker first, or someone who likes the outdoors / hills etc and uses mountain bikes to enjoy them?
Being a bit snarky here, but I felt inspired to ask this by two separate instances of unhidden human waste, several discarded bottles of vape juice, some old socks, and a smattering of crushed energy drink cans at a prominent & popular unofficial parking area for of of the Tweed Valley's more popular areas last week. You'd think people who like being in nature would not do stuff like this.
I've always been really outdoorsy; hillwalking, trail running, road cycling, mountain biking, camping, just general "like being surrounded by nature"-ness. I like to get fitter & better at MTB (and therefore ride hard trails sometimes) because it means it's another tool that I can deploy to have better days in nature without as much worry or suffer.
Intrigued to hear others thoughts on this. Are you a naturey/outdoorsy person as well as a mountain biker? Or are you in for the adrenaline / technicality alone? [Please note - if the latter, no judgement and I am not assuming you are a litterer!]
The bike, or hike is a lovely way of getting into the country for me. I do love the techy side of bikes though (the mechanics, not the techy riding I am rubbish at) and they amplify how far I can go into the countryside.
Yeah, litter really annoys me too.
I've loved bikes since I was a toddler and MTBs since the early 90s, but didn't really start to fully appreciate the great outdoors until I got into snowboarding in the mid 90s. As much as I love it now, I'd still rather be on a bike or board than a hike or walk.
Wilfull littering should be punishable by death. Shows a total disregard for anyone or anything other than themselves.
(and therefore ride hard trails sometimes)
Ahhhhh. But, do you ride hard trails on Hardtails?
Let me clarify something:
I ride hard trails, however I do not ride hard on hard trails (I am not very good).
If I were to ride hard on hard trails on a hard tail, I would have a very hard tale to tell.
I have an innate ability to turn any trail into a hard trail, no matter if it is on a hard tail or not.
Leave nothing but footprints (or tyre tracks) is my motto !
Wilfull littering should be punishable by death.
I wouldn't go that far, but I would make it punishable by the offender having to eat whatever they've dropped.
I came to mountainbiking from hillwalking. Its still a way fro me to get out in the countryside. "man made" trails hold little appeal for me - its about getting out into the hills
If MTB didn't exist I'd still like the outdoors in various guises. But if MTB was limited to only designated areas like trail centres, I'd still love it. I'd love an awesome trail even if it meant looking at a strip mine or slag heap rather than mountains.
As an aside, a few years ago one of the german based mags had a survey about why you liked biking. the english translation had "getting in touch with nature" but I gather that in the original language it was more "prefer running round the park than runnign on a treadmill" rather than grand vistas and birdsong and soil between your toes.
So its very hard to actually define what we like...
Given the attitude towards littering in this country I'd be amazed if mountain bikers didn't do it. How many avoid paying for parking, donating to the local trail fairies or just even muck in occasionally? Then there are the people that ride closed trails, build trails in places where they've been asked not to etc. I think there's a reasonably sizeable percentage of the population that only think about themselves. To be fair I've also seen plenty of littering by farmers, forestry workers or anybody else that works in the countryside.
Tweed Valley ? unofficial parking ? deffo Ebikes sessioning golfie and stuff.
I've always loved riding bikes and pissing about on them, from BMX to MTB and road bikes. I've never been serious about any of it though so never raced. I love snowboarding as well and was into skateboarding when younger. I just love movement in fresh air I think.
I love hills and mountains and love a good hike and generally being outside.
I ****ING HATE LITTER!
Ive always loved bikes since being a kid in 80s. Ive always loved the outdoors since 90s. If i could no longer ride i'd still go out into the hills just as much but go on foot.
Litter louts need fisting by Tyson Fury.
I love being outdoors but "The outdoors" as a pastime genuinely bores me if I'm not on a bicycle.
Doesn't have to be technical or adrenaline infused riding at all. Although I do also like both of those.
I live very rurally now but also spent half my early life in cities and never ever litter anywhere. Infact I'll often take other people's litter away to be discarded properly. but having said that I won't go a long way out of my way to recycle.
As per TJ - cycling outdoors is just an extension of walking outdoors. So is running, paddling and so on. Each has their pros and cons. I'm assuming that age will eventually stop me riding but that I'll be able to carry on walking. Not being able to do that will be tough but I might still be happy for someone to drive me into the countryside and let me soak it in.
Littering still confounds me, be it urban or rural.
People are dicks.
Based on all the shite left at Grenno I'd say a lot of people are there for the riding rather than the outdoors. I think that makes sense as sessioning the same spot is okay but doesn't really give you changing views so ties up.
I like being outdoors, whether it be a walk, run or on the bike. Bike is best as I get to go further and see more in the same time as walking.
If someone said you can only ride a bike and session Grenno that's it for outdoor time or you can walk run wherever you want but no bike riding I'd reluctantly take the walk/run wherever option.
Oh snipers in trees for littering. First offence you just get a round through the knee. Second offence, easily seen by the give away limp, shot to the stomach and you bleed out/die a painful death.
I think I am quite different to many on here in that I really just like the feeling of beasting myself- or more accurately, I like the feeling afterwards. So to me, in many ways I like cycling, indoor cycling, running on trail or track or the gym pretty much the same as they all do the trick.
There's definitely a bonus when going road cycling or trail running in that its more adventurous and you get to be in nature and be in the hills and for sure I get something from that but I wouldn't class myself as an "outdoors" person even- though I can fairly comfortably perform in fell races and that type of thing.
I obviously do not like littering though, just to be clear.
As a small aside I used to go out with a local MTB group night riding and inevitably would often end up stood in the rain, on a pitch black canal towpath waiting for 45mins for someone to bodge their exploded rear mech or whatever and people would often enthusiastically exclaim that this is "still better than sitting on the sofa watching TV isn't it" and I would of course agree but secretly inside I was usually thinking its not though is it.
I kind of feel that not being inside and moving about in the landscape by whatever means is default normality so I am not sure I identify with being outdoorsy myself. I just see it as being and existing like we were evolved to do.
I spend as much of my time that I can when I’m not working/caring for my mum/doing family stuff, etc out and about. Most of my time I’m on my bike and I’m happier away from roads. But I am just as happy in a kayak, walking in hilly places and I would love to go XC skiing or ride a horse somewhere remote. Whatever I’m doing, being outside comes first the mode of transport is secondary… that not to say I don’t enjoy riding for riding’s sake too… I definitely do.
i know we all impact on the environment and people when we do even the most low key outdoor activity. But I am not sure I’m comfortable mucking around with the landscape too much or making a racket just to have a bit of fun, especially when it impacts on other people and on the environment. Hence I don’t like noisy messy off-roading activities, jetsking, noisy light planes, helicopters, hooligan style MTBers, etc, etc. which seems to abuse the place rather than respect it. I see littering in the same way.
Hence I don’t like noisy messy off-roading activities, jetsking, noisy light planes, helicopters, hooligan style MTBers, etc, etc. which seems to abuse the place rather than respect it.
I feel much the same about ebikes.
Hence I don’t like noisy messy off-roading activities, jetsking, noisy light planes, helicopters, hooligan style MTBers, etc, etc. which seems to abuse the place rather than respect it.
I feel much the same about ebikes.
I can understand that… but from my perspective, like many things, it depends on where and how the e-bike is being used, why and by whom.
I'm very much an outdoors first person. Just as happy hiking as biking. Biking has always been more a case of getting out further into the countryside than anything else which is why our group rarely does trail centres
My other main passion is rock climbing and I'd take easy climbing outdoors at a remote crag to pushing my absolute limits in a bouldering or lead gym. Not that I don't still have the odd try hard moments outdoors. Sadly the crappy weather since the autumn has put a real dampener (excuse the pun) on things.
All outdoor activity leaves its mark. Litter is the most pointless and egregious but bikes leave tyre tracks, boots leave footprints and just look at the wear on some of the paths in the dales, lakes and peak. But if you look up and out you see the tyre tracks and boot prints are really narrow and ultimately transient lines across a much bigger natural landscape. So I say enjoy the outdoors but carry your litter home.
I also pick up other people's litter and carry that home too.
Im happy outdoors doing anything
Littering isn't a thing you can allocate to a sport, hobby, activity or even a drive..
Its a social problem that has got substantially worse in my lifetime by the fact that people cant be bothered to take it home or dispose of it correctly.
Its getting just as bad any where in Europe and we now have a generation that have seen parents and others do it and now think it's the way of life
Just coming back from a six week tour of New Zealand and have hardly seen any litter or rubbish scattered about. Maybe we can learn something from them as to how we can improve.
Personally I think we have passed the point of no return here as we have ended up with a society which the majority have no pride in the surroundings
Rant over
HOME | Trash Free Trails https://share.google/UczPFCco6Dvm9mbKF
At 55 I've finally realised that I just love being outdoors, doing anything. My favourite things are riding bikes, building or fixing trails and features and strength training but I'm more than happy to go for a walk or hike.
We built a big open shelter in our garden and use that as our gym, whatever the temperature or weather we can get our fix. I spend more hours over Winter in the woods with a mattock and rake than a bike, with just the birds and deer for company but reap the rewards come Spring.
So for me, it's a combination of physical exertion and nature.
Totally agree about litter and often find myself bringing home other peoples junk as it defiles 'my' woods 😉
Cycling is the thing we did as a family, MTB was just the natural extension of that, and a way of being in the countryside. I've always found the idea of littering anywhere as inexplicable really.
I think I am quite different to many on here in that I really just like the feeling of beasting myself- or more accurately, I like the feeling afterwards. So to me, in many ways I like cycling, indoor cycling, running on trail or track or the gym pretty much the same as they all do the trick.
There's definitely a bonus when going road cycling or trail running in that its more adventurous and you get to be in nature and be in the hills and for sure I get something from that but I wouldn't class myself as an "outdoors" person even- though I can fairly comfortably perform in fell races and that type of thing.
I obviously do not like littering though, just to be clear.
As a small aside I used to go out with a local MTB group night riding and inevitably would often end up stood in the rain, on a pitch black canal towpath waiting for 45mins for someone to bodge their exploded rear mech or whatever and people would often enthusiastically exclaim that this is "still better than sitting on the sofa watching TV isn't it" and I would of course agree but secretly inside I was usually thinking its not though is it.
That's a little bit of me as well. I love the feeling of physical movement and the feeling of achievement that comes after. Sounds a bit woo-woo but for me doing so in the outdoors feels kind of hand in hand.
Another poster says it's evolutionary normality to do so and I would have to agree with that.
Always been outdoorsy...
Always been into bikes/cars/engineering...
Always enjoyed learning new skills...
MTB = all of the above = cool 😎 😍
I dislike anything or anyone that leaves litter anywhere.
I cannot understand anyone who goes somewhere and leaves it less nice for other people, or themselves on their next visit. I think some people don't see litter or can filter it out.
I started as a walker - didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 19, been making up for lost time over the last 30+ years.
I'd say the real hit for me is working physically hard in a great landscape - flow for want of a better word. So I can get that riding bikes, skiing and climbing/scrambling. Walking is kind of a means to an end now - do it to access a scramble or climb or a specific peak or to fill in a gap when I can't ride. But the older I get, the more I realise that they're all just gateways to spend time in the mountains.
The damage we do just by using the landscape is something I'm very aware of. As an mtber I spend a lot of time looking after the trails I use - not "digging" per se, making new ones, but drainage, deberming, repairing blown corners, blocking straighlines, that kind of thing. Keeping singletrack single. That comes with gaining some understanding of how other usergroups treat the landscape too. Walkers, horseriders etc all have different attitudes, desires and levels of entitlement.
But rubbish does my nut in. Really, really don't get it. I KNEW in no uncertain terms by the age of 5 (if not earlier) that I didn't drop litter. I also KNEW that things would go very badly for me if I did. So I didn't. Anywhere - not just out in the countryside. I can't help but feel its a parental training thing and its now 15 or 20 years too late.
As mentioned above Greno is a real bugbear for us (Ride Sheffield). We can haul half a dozen bin bags full of rubbish out from the bike trails, and a week later do the same again. Not acceptable. Again, its easy to blame the kids, but where are they getting the cash from to spunk on Redbull and massive packets of crisps and prepacked sandwiches or Ginsters? As a teenager, outdoors food would be sandwiches made at home wrapped in (reused) greaseproof paper, and an apple. Drink would be a canteen of fruit squash. If I was lucky, maybe a marsbar, which would be the only thing that would be expected to be rubbish. Spending £5 or £10 on snacks for a meal would be unheard of! Fizzy pop was maybe a once a week luxury and the number of bags of crisps I ate in a year could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Now its zero effort, zero prep, everything just gets bought individually shrinkwrapped over the counter.
Tweed Valley ? unofficial parking ? deffo Ebikes sessioning golfie and stuff.
This. Ebikes have opened up mountain biking to a whole new demographic and a lot of them appear to be ****s.
Littering isn't a thing you can allocate to a sport, hobby, activity or even a drive..
This, x100 million. Littering isnt (and shouldnt) be something you try and associate with certain types of bikes, or ebikes, or people who ride trial centres not mountains, or anything like that. Its absolutely nothing to do with that stuff.
Its entirely to do with whether people are dirty, litter dropping scumbags, thats all. Which as Tracey mentioned is almost pandemic now.
Anyone dropping litter at the end of an e-bike ride at the Golfie, probably also drops litter at the council swimming pool or outside their kids school or at the golf club they attend too.
If I'm out in'th'ills, riding or walking*, then its all good as far as I'm concerned.
Horses for courses, innit? Say we're in the Lakes for a week, I'll take a bike but spend most of the week out walking with Mrs Binners, then get a couple of blats on the bike in, usually ending at whichever pub Mrs Binners has decided to have a nice lunch in
* as I get older walking and riding pace are virtually indistinguishable from one another
As a small aside I used to go out with a local MTB group night riding and inevitably would often end up stood in the rain, on a pitch black canal towpath waiting for 45mins for someone to bodge their exploded rear mech or whatever and people would often enthusiastically exclaim that this is "still better than sitting on the sofa watching TV isn't it" and I would of course agree but secretly inside I was usually thinking its not though is it.
A Monday Night Pub Ride most definitely wouldn't be for you then. We've had a few of 'your type*' show up from time to time. Usually just the once though. 🤣
* Not being serious, obviously. We're all different. The idea of going and 'beasting myself' in the gym holds about as much appeal to me as going to the Tory Party Conference
This. Ebikes have opened up mountain biking to a whole new demographic and a lot of them appear to be ****s.
...and yet I ride an ebike.
This is what walkers said about MTBers back in the 80s and 90s and land owners said about walkers who were battling for rights of way
Being in the woods on bikes is far more accessible these days thanks to ebikes. If a percentage of people are happy to litter, then the increased footfall (or tyrefall) means the chances of more litter in the woods increases.
I am sure some of it is accidental, a wrapped falling from an unzipped pocket, but most isnt. And from my experience, the type of litter goes hand in hand with a certain demography. IE: monster energy cans, haribo wrappers etc... the sort of products consumed by your average knuckle dragger.... which i am sure is cranking up the hills with their dropper slammed, crunching gears, in a full face, hoody and trousers, as the motor does all the work.
I actively pick up any rubbish i see if i can. Its such a shame, but education doesnt seem to be what is once was.
And yes, i do love the outdoors.
on the canal on the way into work (MCR) you can see how far the people walk their dogs as the poo and poo bags stop as the poor dogs get walked about 200 metres (owner glued to phone) What I don't get, never mind the bagged poo left at the side of the path is the owners who let their dogs poo dead centre of the path or on the bridges, surely they then risk stepping in it the next morning/evening?
Ebikes have opened up mountain biking to a whole new demographic and a lot of them appear to be ****s.
It has its benefits too though. More folk outdoors means more folk gain an appreciation of the outdoors. That can affect housing policies, funding, Green initiatives, conservation and so on.
My negative comment about ebikes earlier was more to do with another intrusive, unwanted sound.
re the ebike comment i made. i personally know a group of ebike riders who ride pretty much wherever they want. footpath, in contentious areas, no problem. and these are people who have ridden normal mtbs from the late 80's.
ebikes have opened up area's where most riders wouldnt attempt to take or ride a bike. people who have no idea about where you can or cant ride a bike. who have no idea or have never heard of the countryside code.
they ride where they want, they do what they want, they care nothing that their actions can affect other people. these people IMHO are the type of ride who would drop litter on trails/outdoors and think nothing at all about it.
Are you a naturey/outdoorsy person as well as a mountain biker? Or are you in for the adrenaline / technicality alone?
Ha! At my age? Definitely not the latter. I’ve always been someone who appreciates nature and the outdoors, I was brought up to be that way, my dad was born in a tiny village out in the countryside, and used to take me for walks around places he knew, and used to show me things like a dippers nest.
it makes me very angry when I see the thoughtless behaviour of people these days, leaving trash behind and damaging stuff, one of the worst are the bags of dog shit either tied to hedges, or just thrown on the ground. If you’re going to have a pet, then take responsibility for everything that goes with it, including cleaning up after it! 💩🤬😖
Ahhhhh. But, do you ride hard trails on Hardtails?
Sometimes, they’re the only bikes I’ve got now that work. One was designed for exactly that purpose!
6” Nixon Platinums, capable of taking 7” dual-crown triple-clamp DH forks. Look at the top tube/down tube gussets. 😁
* as I get older walking and riding pace are virtually indistinguishable from one another
Well, on the flat, riding is still a lot quicker than walking, uphill, on the other hand, it’s as above. I hadn’t ridden for quite a few years, and I’m now in my 70’s, so steep hills are hard going on a bike, even in the granny, but it’s a heavy bike, around 15/16kg. Downhill’s fun though! The Singlespeed is also hard going uphill, but there’s no shame in getting off and pushing. Downhill, though, ditto the above. 😎
In all the areas I've ridden, the majority of litter is near to the carparks or jump spots. Carpark litter from lazy fkers with no respect for the location, jump spot litter I tell myself it's kids with a feeling of it being their spot where they can do their own thing - maybe they sort of intend to clear it up occasionally but never get round to it. Most of us were like that as kids (litter aside). And not all jump spots are a mess - mini jump areas often are, manicured BMX trails can be like a zen garden.
I ride as a way to be outdoors, always have done. It feels 50-50 between the feeling of motion and the location. if I can't ride I'll run or walk and feel good afterwards so I think it's actually more about the location. Plus, TTing, track cycling or repeated sessioning of a DH has never become my thing, I liked 4X/Dh stuff for a while but in the end got bored of the same old spot and wanted to go somewhere else / further. The purest ride experience can lack the variation in setting. Part of my urge to ride comes from a need to be in new or unknown places or return to places I've enjoyed in the past. With that goes an appreciation of the places that makes littering abhorant to me.
Interesting topic and link, OP.
I once couldn't arsed to put a ration pack biscuit wrapper in my pocket whilst on an exercise in circa 1998 (I was still very new and cocky), I just dropped it in the bottom of the shell scrape with the intention to fill over it when we moved location, and cracked on with my morning admin.
Unbeknownst to me the Sergeant Major saw me do it. The absolute beasting I got that day has lived with me ever since. A valuable lesson that others would probably benefit from seeing the state of some spots I ride.
I see Greno has already been mentioned. I reckon if we got the kids leopard crawling Steel City a few times they'd think twice.
a ration pack biscuit wrapper
Was the packet labelled 'Biscuits, plain, ABL8/40' by any chance? Or have I misremembered that from my cadet days in the 70s?
a ration pack biscuit wrapper
Was the packet labelled 'Biscuits, plain, ABL8/40' by any chance? Or have I misremembered that from my cadet days in the 70s?
These were 'Biscuits, Brown'. Absolutely banger with the tinned pate or cheese spread.
To the OP's point. I like the outdoors, as a young lad growing up in Dorset there wasn't much to do that didn't invlove being outside, so it's more a habit than a choice I guess.
I have partaken in many outdoor pursuits. Mostly because the Army made me, but one thing that ran through all of them was to respect the outdoors, leave little trace and don't take it for granted.
Bikes was my choice, the one activity that kinda stuck.
To the original questions "Do you see yourself as a mountain biker or someone who likes the outdoors in general?"
I think the answer is mainly Yes, the latter. I grew up with bikes around from an early age, as did my brothers, and we all 3 still ride now, albeit sometimes the frequency and enthusiasm vary. But we also had parents who took us walking, climbing, camping, whatever, in Wales, the Lakes, Scotland and so on, and importantly they were also obsessive about littering, leaving no trace at camp, walking in the middle of the path so as not to widen it, don't straighten corners on zigzags, etc. When I was coarse fishing through the '80s, I'd get irritated by other anglers leaving plastic bags, luncheon meat tins, hooklengths of monofil and so on - simply couldn't (still can't) understand why anyone would go to the effort of walking to a pleasant stretch of canal or river, to then despoil it by leaving their shite there. You carried it in, bloody take it away; as RM says above it's the simple 'Leave No Trace' principle. And it's why I habitually pick up litter on the beach, or ferret about in a hilltop sheltercairn, to leave things better than I found them, much to my wife's irritation.
Frequently find myself muttering words to the effect of "Litterers, machine-gunning's too good for them"