yep, and it means I even like you elf, despite you being a prissy little monster who's spoiling for an argument tonight. Have you had a bad day or something?
Nope. You?
I think that a thread on this subject has lasted 6 pages without being blocked is a minor miracle and probably proves that there is a god.
Unfortunately it provides no evidence for which of the 40,000 or so gods it might be.
Are they wrong?
YES
Are they misguided?
No most religions [ till organised] are basically be excellent to each other
Are they just a bit keen?
NO we would all like to live for ever, see wrongs righted and see all our loved ones in an after life
Are they the keepers of the one true way?
Depends which religion you ask but they all think they are and some are definitely not doing this - there is only 1 true god etc
How does their interpretation of the religion measure up?
Sometimes poorly rejecting jesus and turn the other cheek and being all OT vengeance often giving huge weight to bits [ homosexuality whilst ignoring other bits
Jesus
34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
How does their interpretation of the religion measure up?
Generally in life I find them to be quite moral if adhering to a code I dont believe in that is a bit bonkers. Most of the really nice trully generous folk I know have faith in their lifes.
Are their beliefs as worthy of consideration as yours?
no but only a fool would not have considered religion at some point. Only a bigger fool will have considered it and found it to be true.
What I'm after is a kind of 'why are your beliefs different to theirs?' kind of thing...
I am rational they are not and my understanding of the world now is greater than it was thousands of years ago. Like us they sought answers to the same questions.
they differ in that they believe I should tolerate their nonsense whilst they can tell me what they like because it is in a book. I am condemned to death, am a sinner, my friends are sinners and all doomed to death and further suffering. Despite their view of non believers and despite the lack of evidence for their belief I should tolerate it or it is disrespectful and I am not tolerant.
"If you deny the existence of all the others, doesn't that make you just one god away from being an atheist?"not sure what your point is?
It might be that Christians don't have a very well developed sense of humour.
I thought it was funny, but then I'm an athiest.
Explain please. Seeing as how you're so clever. Thanx.
Well bud, Firstly I should say that I enjoy reading your posts and find that you mostly put across a reasoned argument, that I often tend to respectfully disagree with. However, (and it's probably the reason that I end up biting to your posts more than others) I do find that you have an annoying habit of stating what are your opinions (of which you are perfectly entitled to, and I would defend you right to state them) as actual facts when they patently are not.
I could trawl through your previous posts and find loads of examples but that strikes me as a little anal, However I think you have done it at least twice in this thread alone.
regards x
EDIT; PS, I've never said that that I'm clever, however I seem to remember that you are a self proclaimed genius... 😉
TurnerGuy
Favouring any particular religion, including singing hymns, has no place in schools
More silly hysteria.
At the level of understanding of primary school kids, Christianity (or what ever other religion is being taught) is just a vehicle for getting over a few basic lessons in morals + learning a few songs + getting a little bit of a grounding in an important part of our history and culture.
in an important part of our history and culture.
like slavery and the abuse of indigenous people
Religion in schools is shameful and devisive and should be banned immediately.
like slavery and the abuse of indigenous people
And also the use of Science to produce weapons to kill millions of people....
Science didn't kill people, people did.
..to adapt a Welsh rap anthem..
And what about all those Egyptians in the Red sea? or the folk of Sodom and Gomorrah?
like slavery and the abuse of indigenous people
In one sense (the sense that indeed they [b]are[/b] part of our history and culture), yes.
rightplacerighttime - MemberTurnerGuy
Favouring any particular religion, including singing hymns, has no place in schools
More silly hysteria.
At the level of understanding of primary school kids, Christianity (or what ever other religion is being taught) is just a vehicle for getting over a few basic lessons in morals + learning a few songs + getting a little bit of a grounding in an important part of our history and culture.
Religion has no place in any school unless as a comparative religion course. what you describe is divisive and indoctrinating
Science didn't kill people, people did.
Erm, did you actually read what I writed? 😕
And also [b]the use of[/b] Science to produce weapons to kill millions of people
See? HTH....
what you describe is divisive and indoctrinating
Tell that to my daughter, she likes going to Angel Voices, meeting her friends and singing.
She also thinks the vicar is cool.
Not sure how she feels about God though.
BTW - you're hysterical (and I don't mean funny)
You're really under par today aren't you?
Science? As a thing?
What Evil Science is this?
The same science that gives us knives and forks?
Shall we put Nasty Science in jail?
Go and have a lie down, you're obviously a wee bit over tired.
No weapons were created before science FACT
agree i hate the way that kids get taught religion in school - no need. My son at a non religious school got a picture of the snake that tempted them in the garden of eden to colour in. We gave it a tattoo that said MYTH and sent it back in with a picture of the big bang on the other side.
having spent the afternoon at the funeral of my best mate i am pretty sure its horse shite! why whould he put a family thro that greif, what can it possibly achieve?
rightplacerighttime
divisive- unless everyone at that school follows the same religion those who don't will be excluded / made to feel different
indoctrinating - teaching children that myths are true - of course its indoctrination. 🙄
Go and have a lie down, you're obviously a wee bit over tired.
😆
Whereas you're obviously utterly exhausted and sleep-deprived. 😉
Shall we put Nasty Science in jail?
Shall we condemn Nice Religion? Hmm? 😕
The same Religion that gave us the basis for almost all our current laws?
Quite why we're discussing [i]Religion[/i] on a 'Do you believe in God' thread I don't know, but there you go. If you can't seperate things then I spose we'd better humour you. 😐
[i]Quite why we're discussing Religion on a 'Do you believe in God' thread I don't know, but there you go.[/i]
It's a discussion. These things evolve...
Did you see what I did there?
Anyway, you know I'm right, so stop it and go to sleep.
Elfinsafety
The same Religion that gave us the basis for almost all our current laws?
It didn't. Religion co opted and codified the morals we evolved as a tribal plains dwelling ape, nomadic huntergatherer and farmer.
You and Iboth know you will collapse with exhaustion long before I am spent, so why not take your own advice and get yer head down eh?
Go on; you know it's for the best. 😉
And you know you can't win against me, so it's pretty futile trying really isn't it? 🙂
Do yourself a favour son, and give it up now while you've still a modicum, of self respect.
You too TJ. Can't be doing with your nonsense tonight.
The same Religion that gave us the basis for almost all our current laws?
There are laws that imprison man, and laws that set man free. Our system of law seems to be mainly about the former.
Quite why we're discussing Religion on a 'Do you believe in God' thread I don't know,
Maybe because the two are inextricably linked? Seems unsuprising to me. Those who say 'I believe in god but I'm not religious' are kidding themselves IMO, they are maybe just practising a religion all of their own.
BTW Elfin, no witty comeback? I'm hurt...
Lol, no point in trying to out-Elfin the Elf Master.
Seriously though, you do seem a wee bit under the weather, and I think you smell a bit of wee. Have you been a bad boy this weekend?
Those who say 'I believe in god but I'm not religious' are kidding themselves IMO
Oh really?
Care to explain (not that you've managed to do that at all at any stage in this thread, so quite honestly i'm not expecting any change there)?
Do you ever stop to consider your own arrogance? I mean, I do occasionally, but then let's face it, mine is at least justifiable. 😀
no point in trying to out-Elfin the Elf Master.
Here is Wisdom. You will be well advised to listen to it.
Have you been a bad boy this weekend?
More than likely. I'll let you wonder as to how...
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divisive- unless everyone at that school follows the same religion those who don't will be excluded / made to feel differentindoctrinating - teaching children that myths are true - of course its indoctrination.
TJ - prepare for a shock...
... everyone IS different.
Being different in itself is not a bad thing. Schools are used to dealing with difference - they can handle it.
(But BTW, the point you make seems to suggest that you are more concerned about the kids who are not religious? Maybe it should be compulsory, so that everyone does feel included?)
As per my previous post - my daughter goes to a church group to sing once a month - you know what, it's the singing and the meeting of her friends that she likes, not the feeling of being one of Jesus' little soldiers.
As for the indoctrination stuff, I'm sure that even my daughter, who actually goes to church from time to time and goes to a Christian VA school hears more stories about fairies presented as fact than she does about Jesus Christ.
Do you believe on god?
No.
Please make it stop now.
Being different in itself is not a bad thing.
Hmmmmm........
[img] 
[/img]
Please make it stop now.
That sounds like some sort of prayer.
lol, what makes you think that I am arrogant? I mean, I might be, but I always try to see both sides of the argument, and I try never to express my opinion as fact, unlike you.
Explanation to my last; What I mean is, that if you believe in God, you are religious. I think that is pretty much the definition of the word. hang on...
re·li·gionNoun/ri?lij?n/1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
2. Details of belief as taught or discussed.
Yep, there you go. I accept completely that a person can believe in god but not be a part of [i]organised[/i] religion...
Also I'm quite new to here. what is 'out-Elfining'? Is it presenting your own opinions as the god given irrefutable truth? pretty sure i'm not doing that...
The same Religion that gave us the basis for almost all our current laws?
Oh dear. Next you'll be telling us morality didn't exist before the bible.
Too many stupid people. 🙂
re·li·gionNoun/ri?lij?n/1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
How about the Religious Society of Friends aka Quakers. Some believe in a god, some don't. Or Buddhism for that matter?
perhaps their god's could have a word with the dictionary and sort it out ?
(But BTW, the point you make seems to suggest that you are more concerned about the kids who are not religious? Maybe it should be compulsory, so that everyone does feel included?)
What about people who have a different faith? I had friends at school who weren't allowed to sit in assembly/lessons about easter/christmas etc because we used to sing a few hymns/learn about Jesus and they weren't CoE (was a standard state primary).
It's like suggesting everyone who goes to a certain school should be Liverpool supporters 'so they feel included'. Perhaps you should respect that fact that some people don't invest anything in football, or that some people are staunch Everton fans.
How about the Religious Society of Friends aka Quakers. Some believe in a god, some don't. Or Buddhism for that matter?
Yeah, how about them?
No seriously what about them? Its just a quote from a dictionary, that I quickly found to explain to Elfin why I thought that someone who believed in god was by that virtue, religious (because he said I haddened explained myself) I never suggested that someone couldn't be part of a religious community without believing in god. I hadn't even thought about it either way...
So you can be a Quaker without believing in god? never knew that. how curious. Whats the point?
what makes you think that I am arrogant? I mean, I might be, but I always try to see both sides of the argument, and I try never to express my opinion as fact, unlike you.
Cobblers. Utter Cobblers. All you've done is try to present your onions as the Truth, and rubbish any alternative views.
What a joke this is. You've reduced things down to a mere dictionary definition, whilst ignoring what I've stated about myself.
What I mean is, that if you believe in God, you are religious
Right, let's have a look:
religious(re·li·gious)Pronunciation:/ri?lij?s/
adjective
[b]relating to or believing in a religion[/b]:
both men were deeply religious, intelligent, and moralistic
religious music
(of a belief or practice) forming part of someone’s thought about or worship of a divine being:
he has strong religious convictions
belonging or relating to a monastic order or other group of people who are united by their practice of religion:
religious houses were built on ancient pagan sites
treated or regarded with a devotion and scrupulousness appropriate to worship:
I have a religious aversion to reading manuals
Ok so. I don't actually practice any form of [i]worship[/i], or adhere to any religious practices or doctrines. So other than a belief in the possibility of a 'god' (and we've bin over that bit before concerning my own particular beliefs), how do you then define me as 'religious'?
I don't belong to any religious order. My beliefs are simply my own beliefs. By your definitions, the 2nd definition you have quoted applies to atheists just as equally, no? Cos according to my copy of the Oxford english dictionary, point 3 states that a religion may be:
A controlling influence on a person's life.
So, I can just as equally claim that if you are an 'atheist', and belive that no god exists, then you are equally as [i]religious[/i] as anyone else. 😉
what is 'out-Elfining'?
In the Fullness of Time, all shall be revealed....
She also thinks the vicar is cool.
I bet all those kids that were abused by catholic priests thought they were cool at one point.
Being different in itself is not a bad thing
bullies normally target the different kids, don't they?
Oh dear. Next you'll be telling us morality didn't exist before the bible.
Oh dear. No I won't.
How are you going to cope?
So, I can just as equally claim that if you are an 'atheist', and belive that no god exists, then you are equally as religious as anyone else
how can not believing provide a controlling influence?
religion is a controlling influence because it provides guidelines to be followed, possibly based on the 10 (or even the original 15) commandments, or it allows you to ignore those guidelines and then repent it all in church later.
All you've done is try to present your onions as the Truth, and rubbish any alternative views.
Is this a fact, or your opinion? lol
See, when you say rubbishing alternative views, I say offering alternative views. If anyone is rubbishing people, calling them arrogant, etc, it would be you, i'm afraid.
Well done you've found a slightly different definition, doesn't make mine wrong. I still think (see opinion, not fact) that if you believe in god then you are religous, even if it IS a religion with only one member. (I shall call it Elfinism) I accept that you think different.
Anyway this is a fairly pointless agument about semantics.
So, I can just as equally claim that if you are an 'atheist', and belive that no god exists, then you are equally as religious as anyone else.
I guess you could, if you wanted, Dawkins certainly presents an almost religous fervour.
I would however describe myself as more of the agnostic persuasion, in that I don't really care either way, as it is pretty much irrelevant to me in my daily life.
i'm just bemused and interested as to why others hold such strong beliefs.
religion is a controlling influence because it provides guidelines to be followed, possibly based on the 10 (or even the original 15) commandments, or it allows you to ignore those guidelines and then repent it all in church later.
Erm, you are aware that's just Christianity, aren't you?
See, when you say rubbishing alternative views, I say offering alternative views. If anyone is rubbishing people, calling them arrogant, etc, it would be you, i'm afraid.
You are wrong, but why are you afraid?
I shall call it Elfinism
It is the only True Way.