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…and you could get run over by a bus tomorrow
I'm going to be very careful crossing the road today in case the Fates are feeling wickedly ironic.
…and you could get run over by a bus tomorrow
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">From a financial point of view that would be an extremely good outcome for my wife. (insurance, death in service payment and pension)</span>
For the same reasons, if it was my wife under the bus I would never need to work again!
We need to spend more time hanging out by bus routes....
For years I had sod all spare cash and quite a lot of debt. I changed jobs and slowly worked my way up in salary which, thanks to a house purchase in a rising market, managed to square me away to a level playing field. Sadly, it took my gran dying to get me some spare (which went into the next house) and my dad dying to get me to the stage where I actually had decent savings. My dad's inheritance was set aside specifically for the kid(s) that we were planning.
The divorce pretty much zero'd me out again (apart from the house), but the only reason I have savings now is because I sold up and moved away, living in a rented apartment. I still have issues spending money though. The memories of wondering how the hell I was going to afford to get to work are still strong in my memory (hence the reason for the tight budget on the new car).
…and you could get run over by a bus tomorrow
And the worst could could happen and you survive. Who's going to pay the mortgage now?
I’m going to suggest that plenty of people on her do have considerable savings, but it’s somewhat difficult to discuss without looking smug or conceited,
Depends how you define substantial too, to somebody who can;t rustle up £100 in a hurry then having a grand put away is substantial.
Personally, I have 6 months salary in the bank 'just in case', which sounds like I'm in a good position, but the reason I have that cash is because we live in a small house, have a single 10 year old car, cheap mobiles, a single TV, no Sky/Virgin subs, no gym membership etc., don't take big holidays, no loans (other than a serviceable mortgage), no credit card balances and watch what we spend.
We have a 5 month old little one to clothe and feed and stimulate now too so being even more careful and even more glad I have a rainy day fund. I sleep far better at night knowing we could survive a hiccup in circumstances that I would driving round in a new car or whatnot.
But... I do envy the people who spend all their money and live it up a bit, I don't actually envy their lifestyle or the material bits they have, but I do envy the attitude of not worrying about it, I wish I could be that carefree sometimes!
If you want flashy cars, the latest phones, huge TVs and expensive holidays then fair enough, but don’t complain when you’re spending the last 40 years of your life eating tins of cold beans and huddling up to your one bar electric fire for warmth.
Who says anything about living 40yrs eating cold beans in front of a one bar fire??
#suicide
#euthanasia
If I ever get to a point where your description of old age starts to become a reality, I’m right on outa here..
Already got a stash of something that will make my last sleep eternal.
Almost everyone I speak to through my job has nothing significant savings wise (it’s part of the process to assess financial situation)
Its a pretty broad cross section of the general public from people in rented one bed council flats to people with £1m+ mortgages.
There seems to be very few people from either end of the scale who could cope for more than a couple of months if they were unable to work or couldn’t find work after losing their job.
Its a scary thought, but from my experience, it is the majority of people that are in that situation. Either due to having no other option, or just presuming everything will be ok.
"Its a scary thought, but from my experience, it is the majority of people that are in that situation. Either due to having no other option, or just presuming everything will be ok."
Which is kind of reassuring to an extent - if a majority of a large cross section of the population are in a similarly precarious position then the govt of the day are less likely to consciously do anything to bring the house of cards down. Apart for Brexit obviously.
Interesting topic.
I've always hated debt, an attitude I have probably inherited from my parents. I've also been lucky in that I've not been out of work for a significant period since I left University, and I work in software which is well paid generally.
While I've never been one for flashy cars or holidays, the above means I haven't had to worry about money too much: stash a few quid in savings as and when I had it, and that would cover emergencies, DIY projects, etc.
Since having kids I'm the sole breadwinner in our household so I pay a lot more attention to our finances. We now put around 20% of income into various pensions, and a bunch more into a savings account for yearly expenses (e.g. Christmas, car servicing, etc). I also try to keep 3 month's worth of living expenses (mortgage, bills, etc) in an account I mostly don't touch. The idea of that is to cover us if I lost my job tomorrow. We have life insurance which would cover the mortgage if I were hit by the hypothetical bus.
Meeting an unexpected 5-figure bill would be a struggle.
Some stats....
The Aviva report refers to households' savings and investments and excludes the value of their home.
It says the savings gap between low and high income families has increased 25 per cent year-on-year, from £50,072 in 2015/16 to £62,790 in 2016/17.
Low income families now have typically £95 in savings; compared to £136 only last year. Yet, high income families have increased their savings from £50,208 to £62,885.
This broadening gap is likely to have been an impact of monthly family incomes falling to a two-year low of £2,006.
Paul Brencher, of Aviva, said, 'The gulf between low and high income families is showing signs of widening, in a worrying indication that those less fortunate are finding their finances increasingly stretched.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-4234518/Savings-inequality-rise-gap-grows-25.html
Tax rises, greater spending and low interest rates have contributed to a record low household savings ratio of just 1.6% in Q1 2017, down from 3.3% in Q4 2016, and a high of 11.5% in 2010. At the same time, our debts are up – 1.4% on Q4 2016.<sup>1</sup>
These threads usually bring out a few postings along the lines of “What’s the point of saving, spend the money now as you might get hit by a bus tomorrow”. And indeed you might. However the reality is that statistically you are far more likely to make it into old age.
Making it to old age is a different thing than having current savings.. I have no savings now but in old age I will be very well set. No mortgage to pay and a VERY good pension as I put a lot of money into an already good company pension where my additional contributions are matched. So while I would make do while working I realise the choices once retired are more limited and I have taken care of that.
Friend of mine devised the following test-
How long would it take you to get in cash (in instant access) to the following so this is me currently
£10 - now
£100 - now
£1000 - now
£10000 - now
£100000 - 3 days
£1000000 - 6 months would have to sell house/pensions etc
Historically
£10 -
Already got a stash of something that will make my last sleep eternal.
Invalidates your life insurance if that was any part of your plan
Making it to old age is a different thing than having current savings.. I have no savings now but in old age I will be very well set. No mortgage to pay and a VERY good pension as I put a lot of money into an already good company pension where my additional contributions are matched. So while I would make do while working I realise the choices once retired are more limited and I have taken care of that.
Yes, that's pretty much what I was driving at. Had the question been put 25 years ago our answer would have been very different and we'd definitely have struggled to meet any substantial repair costs.
Invalidates your life insurance if that was any part of your plan
My plan is to take up hang gliding. Near some electricity pylons.
If we had a 5 figure bill turn up, we’d be a bit screwed.
This has been mentioned a few times, but what bill could possibly end up at 5 figures!
Home insurance, contents insurance & car insurance will cover the big things. I can't think of much reaching 5 figures after immediately after this? Critical illness would be a progressive cost, as would a death of partner with no life insurance.
We've got some savings that equals about 9 months salary, but only equivalent to one of us. Had various business ventures, some doing okay but many have lost a lot. I'd have a fair bit more if I was risk adverse. Wedding coming up so that's probably all the savings, and a bit more, gone.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">nealglover
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Almost everyone I speak to through my job has nothing significant savings wise (it’s part of the process to assess financial situation)
Its a pretty broad cross section of the general public from people in rented one bed council flats to people with £1m+ mortgages.
There seems to be very few people from either end of the scale who could cope for more than a couple of months if they were unable to work or couldn’t find work after losing their job.
Its a scary thought, but from my experience, it is the majority of people that are in that situation. Either due to having no other option, or just presuming everything will be ok.
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That was my experience when I worked in finance, the change in regs that came about during the Credit Crunch really opened my eyes to it.
Pre-crash as long as you paid your bills on time you could pretty much borrow whatever you wanted, 105% mortgage of 8x salary, yeah why not, £25k of Credit Card debt over 4 cards, hell yeah, 2 cars on HP (PCP wasn't such a thing back then) of course, you've got to drive haven't you. Total monthly income £5k so they thought they were Loaded, total monthly expenditure £6k - possibly the only time in history people could actually live like that for years and years at a time.
Consumer confidence was riding so high that lots of people didn't just assume it would all work out, or "everyone does it" they KNEW it. Anyway, quick remortage every two years, release the equity they're 'earned' on it, pay off the credit cards and start the whole cycle again.
I remember fairly vividly the first time I had to complete a income and expenditure calculation for someone like that, they'd lied of course on their application because "everyone does it" (and they did) but being part of a larger banking group I had access to their statements and had to explain "Sorry Mr Flashgit, you can't have your new X5 from us, to replace the 18 month old one you're bored of, you can't afford it".
Luckily for people like that, at the same time they brought in (or rather bothered to enforce) the affordability calculation requirement, they slashed interested rates to stop them all ending up in Bankruptcy court.
Already got a stash of something that will make my last sleep eternal.
Invalidates your life insurance if that was any part of your plan
As fatalistic a proposal it seems, I am fully aware of the consequence of my actions.
the reality is that statistically you are far more likely to make it into old age.
The reality is that statistically, if someone is posting on this forum, they are probably already old aged.
The reality is that statistically, if someone is posting on this forum, they are probably already old aged.
with substantial savings
Like many others I was brought to the mindset that debt was not great and where at all possible I should limit it. I'm fortunate in that I have always lived approx within my means and had a few lucky breaks based on risks I took. Saying that even now when i have a very easy financial lifestyle I carefully consider what I spend. Not to the extent of day to day stuff which makes me fortunate more on fripperies. As I get older I squirrel away as much as I possibly can. Every single purchase I look at and consider how much time off my working life it will give me !
What I find incredible is people I 'know' who would be on what are considered massive salaries who are almost living day to day because they have massive outflows on absolute nonsense stuff - I have a colleague who runs 2 really expensive lease cars, massive house with an enormous interior design bill, 400k of landscaping FFS, 80 quid bottles of wine on a Tuesday etc etc Absolutely no need for 90% of the spending. He is going backwards and should be in a position of pouring cash into savings. It's a mindset and values frankly for people in that echelon.
Home insurance, contents insurance & car insurance will cover the big things.
Have a read of the small print on your house insurance, I bet it doesn't cover maintenance (or work that needs doing because of a lack of maintenance), wear and tear etc
Buildings insurance usually covers damage from an unexpected event,but not stuff that has happened because it's worn out/old.
So if you have an old house , and the roof starts leaking because the lead flashing is 100 years old and needs replacing, it's not going to cover it. We had a leaky roof a few years ago, insurance won't cover it, had to pay for repairs, cost about 2k. Insurance would pay to cover any damage caused by the leak, eg new carpets,but not to fix the leak itself.
I guess most (at least on here) peoples attitude to saving is heavily influenced by the long period of very low interest rates.
When I had my first mortgage in the 1980's, while the amount compared with today was tiny, it could, and often did, go up by a few hundred pounds overnight. When you can only just pay everything, this was a good incentive to put whatever spare you had away.
With interest rates so low, for so long, many don't see the point in saving.
Pre-crash as long as you paid your bills on time you could pretty much borrow whatever you wanted, 105% mortgage of 8x salary, yeah why not, £25k of Credit Card debt over 4 cards, hell yeah, 2 cars on HP (PCP wasn’t such a thing back then) of course, you’ve got to drive haven’t you. Total monthly income £5k so they thought they were Loaded, total monthly expenditure £6k – possibly the only time in history people could actually live like that for years and years at a time.
Consumer confidence was riding so high that lots of people didn’t just assume it would all work out, or “everyone does it” they KNEW it. Anyway, quick remortage every two years, release the equity they’re ‘earned’ on it, pay off the credit cards and start the whole cycle again.
I find it quite mind blowing that you can earn £5k a month and be that naive!
This has been mentioned a few times, but what bill could possibly end up at 5 figures!
I'm intrigued to hear from OP on this.
I think the 'unexpected' bill may be a maintenance bill. If a shared, managed company type flat, then bills can be eyewatering and above market rate for work on a freehold house.
Our buy to let flat had a new roof, £38k between 4 of us. Arguably, as one of the neighbours thought, it wasn't expected. We on the other hand had negotiated £9k off purchase price a few months earlier as I observed roof was poor condition, slate and bedecked in Victorian wood carvings in conservation area...
We have paid for two boilers in two years (our house and BTL), both all but cleared savings. We are back in a position we were before, so if car dies tomorrow we can sort it (etc).
Personally I would never buy a leasehold, managed property again for this reason.
Some retired people have savings.
The 1% are doing well
everyone else is in debt to the hilt, even the 40% tax bracket double income crew.
Don’t sweat it, and don’t compare yourself unfavourably to people who give the impression that their loaded.
Any data to back that up ? It's nowhere near as bad as that in reality. Plenty of disposable income out there. Plenty of chips on shoulders too.
I find it quite mind blowing that you can earn a salary a month and be that naive!
Its not what you earn, it’s how you choose the spend it.
And 5k a mth ain’t a lot when you are single breadwinner with a family..
And 5k a mth ain’t a lot when you are single breadwinner with a family..
If that's £5k net a month then that's over £80k pa gross, which is getting on for three times the mean full time wage, so a very good wage by UK standards.
savings yes, i have approx 2-3 monthly wages in savings, i don't save anymore than that as id be tempted to buy another bike, therefore if my savings get too strong i overpay the overpaid mortgage or go on a big holiday
but as you say a 5 figure repair would skint us, that is what 0% 24 month credit cards are for
And 5k a mth ain’t a lot when you are single breadwinner with a family..
If that’s £5k net a month then that’s over £80k pa gross, which is getting on for three times the mean full time wage, so a very good wage by UK standards.
I know.
But without detailing the thread TJ and I had a right old belter of conversation on that same topic in a thread about a month or so ago.
🤣🤠
I always have it in the back of my mind that I'd happily spend the rest of my days living out of bothies spring, summer and autumn in Scotland and camp in the wild somewhere warmer for winter. No bills, plenty fish and rabbits to eat, grow my own veg, buy what else I needed. I've got enough tucked away to enable me to do that if needed. As long as I had my health I'd be fine. When that goes, I'd be happy to do the last walk into the hills with a bottle of whisky and succumb to the elements.
And 5k a mth ain’t a lot when you are single breadwinner with a family..
It is a lot, don't kid yourself otherwise, it's a lot even if it's split over 2 earners with a family. For the vast majority of families it's more money than they could ever hope to having coming in a single month.
Yes £5K a month is a lot, but once a person is used to it (has a mortgage and outgoings to match it) it may not seem like a lot. People tend to live up to whatever they earn...
Myself and the wife are in a pretty good position due to a combination of stinginess and me having a pretty good job and working away a lot whilst we lived in Australia. Although its currently taking a significant hit as I am at university full time now so down to one income at the moment and MSc courses are not cheap!. The current GBP-AUD exchange rate is not flattering us either as a significant chunk is still in Australia. Still renting though which is not ideal! and due to the fact the wife's on a partner visa which seems to complicate mortgages that might not change soon 🙁
Does seem a lot harder in this country that Oz though. Before I started studying we were not saving much despite having ok jobs and I don't think particularly extravagant lifestyles (I really should have bought a full suss whilst I had a job dammit). We do not have a TV or much in the way of gadgets and share one slightly rubbish car which I think helps enormously. We are starting to consider kids and that is terrifying!
Should we have the same argument all over again?
I’m not getting dragged into it, but IMO 5k ain’t a lot when some people’s expenditure reaches 3.5k min a month without food..
Annnnd before anyone asks me what I earn or take home I ain’t telling, it’s private as it should remain.
Already got a stash of something that will make my last sleep eternal
The Corrs back catalogue?
Cut your cloth etc.
Maybe south of the Watford gap that is the case but should never be forgot that a huge if not significant number of people don't have the choice but to live on significantly less than 5k a month.
5k a month is alot and puts you in a privaledged position.
I’m not getting dragged into it, but IMO 5k ain’t a lot when some people’s expenditure reaches 3.5k min a month without food..
Surely by that logic though a salary of £1 million a year then isn't a lot if your expenditure is £999,000 before food?
Whether or not a salary is big, or small, is relative to the average, or median, salary for that country, profession, age, whatever. Expenditure isn't a factor.
Hey, I know how this countries salaries are based regionally.
I’m not an ignorant idiot.
I do know that poverty in this country is only getting worse, that the pay gaps are widening and food banks for the many are becoming the norm.
I am totally aware of all of that.
My comments are based largely on what I perceive (from my peers) expenditure for thier households. It’s not uncommon for them to have mortgage payments in the 1-2k an month bracket..
As is said in the last thread...
And don’t think that I don’t sympathise with the less fortunate either... before that argument gets lain against me.
I’m not getting dragged into it, but IMO 5k ain’t a lot when some people’s expenditure reaches 3.5k min a month without food..
this ^
i know somebody running their own business with 3 mortgages, 2 kids, a partner and a ex-wife and to keep everything running he needs to see 7k a month out of his one man business.
it’s all relative to your situation and increasingly where you live and the living costs that result. see the fish and chips thread a while back some were paying £4.50 others £14. apply that to housing/transport/childcare/food etc in different regions.
personally i’m in the ‘comfortable’ bracket and could live frugally/pay mortgage for a year if i had to, and with Brexit looming i need to know i can do that otherwise its becomes a worry. not got a huge pot to dip into and if i did the kitchen/bathroom and lease extension all at once (35-40k) i would be penniless and in for a bit of finance.
being self employed all my life means you get used to the feast/famine and budget accordingly. never understood the salaried people who run out of money at the end of the month when you can easily see your income and expenditure and adjust accordingly.
maybe thats why i don't have a silly priced motor sat outside and numerous entertainment/gratification DD’s (sky/gym/4k enduro bike/etc)
I’m not getting dragged into it, but IMO 5k ain’t a lot when some people’s expenditure reaches 3.5k min a month without food..
wellI though i was doing alright in life. looks like i'm just scraping above the poverty line by some estimations...
Yorkshire Farmer once told me "only borrow "money to buy things that make a profit"
wellI though i was doing alright in life. looks like i’m just scraping above the poverty line by some estimations…
Just to give some context, here is a graph of the latest salary data from the ONS...
£5k a month net (roughly £80k gross) would put you in 96th percentile.
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1957/43718215300_d4dc6a5d35.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1957/43718215300_d4dc6a5d35.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/29BehhL ]UK Gross salary percentiles 2015-2016[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
"If you want flashy cars, the latest phones, huge TVs and expensive holidays or kids in the South East then fair enough, but don’t complain when you’re spending the last 40 years of your life eating tins of cold beans and huddling up to your one bar electric fire for warmth."
FTFY
As per loads of posts its all about disposable income - of which I have very little despite what some would say a very comfortable combined salary. We still have savings and to some on here they would represent enough not to worry for some time but combined with our outgoings would prob only last a month for us. Thats not a situation I'm happy with or proud of but its very difficult to reverse out of a chosen path in life. Hard but not impossible I grant you.
Should we have the same argument all over again?
If you like, I wasn't in on it last time so it's not again for me. But I'd prefer discussion over argument, if you've done this all before though you should be well prepared and perhaps could have put your point across more clearly rather than assuming prior knowledge of your viewpoint from other participants.
I’m not getting dragged into it, but IMO 5k ain’t a lot when some people’s expenditure reaches 3.5k min a month without food..
That's two different statements conflated into one.
5k a month is a lot, especially compared to most peoples earnings
3.5k a month min expenditure is also a lot.
5k may not leave much spare if you have very high outgoings but that does not mean 5k a month is not a lot of money, and it's spurious to suggest that it isn't. Also, it's not intrinsically 'the family' that make the outgoings so high (plenty of families have lower outgoings), it's personal circumstances that do that, some of which they may have control of, some of which they may not. It doesn't change the fact that 5k a month is a lot of money and would put someone in a very privileged position compared to most families, even if the privilege is where and how they live rather than rolling in spare cash.
I’m one of the people Angeldust is hinting at. I agree that it’s hard to come on this thread and admit it without the smugness.
I was £28k in debt at the age of 29, the resulting hard work I set myself to clear that carried on to the point that 15 years later I'm in a position to adequately support our family without work for a year should I need to. Not enough to make retirement comfortable though.
Not having a pop at Kryton...honest I save that for the rugby thread!! But its amazing how many here have "worked hard" to pay off the mortgage or build up savings. I also see it about school fees too. No doubt they do work hard and I'm a lazy arse so it doesnt bother me but do you think a lot of people dont work hard whilst not even being able to afford a mortgage in the first place or or just to get to the end of the month?
FWIW we have about 3 months of combined take home in savings currently. But Brexit would have to be apocalyptic for me to not have a job.
I think working hard has very little to do with financial wealth, more luck in terms of the profession you choose / qualifications you achieved etc. Some professions pay handsomely, some don't e.g. care industry. I suspect most care workers work very hard for their meagre salary.
I find it quite mind blowing that you can earn £5k a month and be that naive!
My experience is perhaps a bit skewed because 1) I was a finance broker and only spoke to people who borrowed 2) only the 'bad' ones are memorable but...
It was the 'big earners' who were the worst. I'll try to give you an example of the 'type', I met LOTS of people like this, if you've ever had to suffer one of my rants about how 'middleclass' is a construct to fool working class people into thinking they're rich to vote for people who only look after real rich people, this sort of thing created this thinking.
Also bear in mind, I live in Cardiff, so were my clients, this ain't London.
Anyway, example, Mr. Bigswingingdick.
Earning £90-£100k a year, which is about £5k take-home so a 'serious' wage, but he wants to fit in, in the nicer parts of Landaff, Pontcanna, Lisvane (the leafy suburbs of North Cardiff). So he's going to need a few things.
1) a Wife who likes to wear Gymwear to drop the kids off to school in the 4x4, then go home and watch Loose Women, or perhaps go to the gym, sadly single income families are at a serious disadvantage the way our economy currently works, so his 'serious' wage is now only equal to an couple on 'all-right' wages in-fact because of the way tax works 2 people on £40k will collectively make about as much as one person on £90k, he'll also lose other things like Child benefit.
2) His and Hers PCP cars (or HP with a balloon back in the day) the £500 a month PCP market is where it's at for Mr. BSD, so that's a grand a month for the X5 and the ML.
3) You'll need half a mill to buy anything 'decent' in any of the above suburbs, but ideally double that if you want everyone to know you're a Player, so that'll be another £2500 a month, but it's a saving really because now you can access the best state schools, you don't need to drop another £10k a year in school fees.
4) Mrs BSD will want to hang out lunchtimes with her friends as they humblebrag each other for 2 hours until they can't take it any more, that'll cost you £200 a month, well as long as she sticks to the single coffee and a sandwich.
5) You'll need the rest of your grub delivered by Waitrose or Ocado lest your neighbours start leaving food parcels on your doorstep if they see a Tesco truck turn up. That'll be another £600 a month for a family of 4.
6) add in the boring stuff like Council Tax £250 a month, Utilities, £200 a month, that £200 pile of stuff everyone seems to have to suffer for decent TV, connectivity, Water, Insurance and whatever else and you're left with...
£50 a month to keep you in Stainless Steel Kitchen devices you'll never use, 2 holidays a year, the latest stuff for the kids, small-branded clothing,etc etc etc.
I would hope things have changed in the last 5 years, but I some how doubt it.
but do you think a lot of people dont work hard whilst not even being able to afford a mortgage in the first place or or just to get to the end of the month?
Its a fair point, perhaps "worked hard" is the wrong phrase to use. In my case, I set myself the task to use my career to earn enough money to pay off the debt. Since the age of 29 all of my Jobs have had some element of a performance bonus attached, so I worked to ensure I earned or exceeded that to its maximum each and every year. Once I'd paid the debt, I kept going, and started saving.
I'll admit happily that I've perhaps as a basis of that performance also been lucky enough to have been offered changes/advances in job roles based on that performance level which each time has grown my Salary/OTE ceiling.
So, so hard work, some luck, some risk as I jump across teams etc. As a counter, in my 20's - the 1990's - I had £16 a week remaining for food for 2 of us and spending after all the bills were paid and was shitting myself daily dreading repair bills, house interest rate rises etc that might impact that.
So spending 5k on a 'pushbike' is ok but spending similar on lunch, gymwear and stainless steel kitchen gadgets makes you a BSD.....
I think your figures are pretty out of date as well - these days you need more than 5k take home to afford the lifestyle in your description!
I reckon people in Super Chat (that give away silly amounts of money just to comment) Have plenty of savings.
Its a fair point, perhaps “worked hard” is the wrong phrase to use
I get what you mean you worked hard to pay off the debt and save, even if your job was easy!! Like I said I wasnt having a pop at you, its just the sort of phrase Tories use to justify shitting on the poor!
In a word, No. Both our salaries are fine, combined they are pretty sweet on paper but I still put money aside each month only to hack away at it over the next 30 days or so - robbing Peter to pay Paul. In a word, we should have a few months costs in savings but we've lacked discipline the last 5yrs. It was time to change that this year.
All being said, whilst I'm in the South East, it can be tough anywhere if rate of inflation exceeds inflation of salaries.
To add. Some people have some crazy outgoings. Have seen a few episodes of the BBC show "eat well for less" and I have been utterly gobsmacked by how much money some of these families are spending.
Family of 4. Nearly £300 a week / £14k a year.
So spending 5k on a ‘pushbike’ is ok but spending similar on lunch, gymwear and stainless steel kitchen gadgets makes you a BSD…..
I think your figures are pretty out of date as well – these days you need more than 5k take home to afford the lifestyle in your description!
What people spend their money on wasn't really the point of my post.
But, yes you do need to earn a LOT more than £5k a month to have that kind of lifestyle, that was the point of my post - I was explaining how pre-crash (10 years ago now) how people who were earning £100k a year thought it allowed them the sort of lifestyle I gave an example of above, but it really didn't, however they got away with it because, at the time you could live beyond your means pretty easily.
I was really posting in response to someone who found it hard to believe that someone who earned £5k a month could be so naive, but that's really how a lot of people lived day to day.
I was just going to mention eat well for less.
Had a mate of my son round today he's 7 or 8. Want a pack of crisps? Are they walkers" No "no thanks then".
One of the issues with lack of disposable income is housing cost inflation. Constrained/under supply of property and over supply of money has driven house price inflation with increasing proportion of income spent on housing costs ( mortgage or rent). Clearly this is doubly so in SE and even worse in London.
I'm so pleased that I'm on the right side of this bit of history having bought 20 years ago and paid off mortgage - and live in the north where the lunacy is not quite as bad.
It will all go tits up at some point when interest rates go up.
Had a mate of my son round today he’s 7 or 8. Want a pack of crisps? Are they walkers” No “no thanks then”.
Perhaps he’s committed to eating shit crisps?
I think working hard has very little to do with financial wealth, more luck in terms of the profession you choose / qualifications you achieved etc. Some professions pay handsomely, some don’t e.g. care industry. I suspect most care workers work very hard for their meagre salary.
Not entirely sure I agree here, at least not completely. I worked hard-ish at school, got decent exam results, decent A-levels and went to a decent university. I choose a course (Electrical Engineering) that I thought was both interesting to me and valuable to an employer. I also sourced (by myself) sponsorship from a local electronics firm who paid me a modest pittance to work for them in the holidays, which I did. It meant that I worked full time during every holiday from uni, but I could at least more or less support myself and I never stacked shelves at Tesco!
When I left uni (with a moderately good honours degree), I returned to my sponsor company and worked for them for 3 years, after which time I switched career and moved into software and IT where I still am today.
I probably missed out on a few things - I always regret never taking a gap year, or in fact any time off at all (I don't think I've ever had more than a two week holiday since I left school) - but I have worked hard to get myself to where I am and I don't feel that this is something I lucked into, although perhaps I have been fortunate in how things worked out. I had a plan (of sorts) and I followed through on it to have a successful career.
I do think it's unfair that certain careers pay very poorly. I also think it's very unfair that students today leave university saddled with debt, something that the lawmakers who changed the rules to bring this about never had to worry about. But I don't, personally, consider that having a successful career is something that others can or should just attribute to "luck".
But I don’t, personally, consider that having a successful career is something that others can or should just attribute to “luck”.
Its all just random segregation and crossing over. Some work hard to fail all their gcse's.
But I don’t, personally, consider that having a successful career is something that others can or should just attribute to “luck”.
My point was it's not just down to hard work, plenty of people work very hard and get paid bugger all for it.
Plus I think being born in the UK, with professionals as parents (in my case) was a huge stroke of luck which probably had a bigger influence on my financial outcome than I'd like to admit....
The las time we remortgaged the advisor was going through the affordability checker. He asked how much I spend on clothes, I said around £300 - £500. He assumed I meant monthly, I meant annually. He said it was quite common to meet people on modest incomes spend £500 per month on clothes.
Jesus christ this is an eye opener.
I consideredyself well off for being able to afford a mortgage as most I know can't.
Just goes to show how different things are from others viewpoints
Had a mate of my son round today he’s 7 or 8. Want a pack of crisps? Are they walkers” No “no thanks then”.
Lol I like him.
andybrad - And I know people who can afford to repay a mortgage but cannot afford the deposit required to get it.
But I don’t, personally, consider that having a successful career is something that others can or should just attribute to “luck”.
Luck can only take you so far, but I see plenty of people achieve success without much ability, who have been in the right place at the right time.
Is it luck if their face fits?
To add. Some people have some crazy outgoings. Have seen a few episodes of the BBC show “eat well for less” and I have been utterly gobsmacked by how much money some of these families are spending.
Family of 4. Nearly £300 a week / £14k a year.
I must admit to being confused here. I watch said series from time to time and am under the impression the amount of money afforded by the well of people was one weeks disposable income, not a month (i appreciate that makes it even more ludicrous). What would be the point of giving a poor family one months money to spend in a week as a comparison, because its not apples for apples.
On the subject of education, I have 5 grade C GSCE’s to my name, that’s it.
Define hard work - The hardest job I ever did was also one of the worst for pay. 12 hours a day, 5 days a week in a mill doing back breaking manual labour. My job now pays a lot more and has more responsibilities, but is a damned sight easier to do. Ironically I had much more disposable income when doing the poorly paid job.
For those of us lucky (I say luck, who knows) to be in a profession that pays an ok but not stella salariy age has so much to do with what you have in reserve. Teacher who has had a reasonable but not stratospheric career. At 29 I was buying my first house with my partner and every penny counted. Every penny. Luxuries were a bar of chocolate and bottle of wine in front of the telly on a Friday and we had to be careful about what invitation we accepted for nights out. We didn’t have more than a weeks worth of cash in reserve and certainly could not have afforded avocado toast and a fancy coffee or an iPhone if any of them had existed. Fast forward 18 years and the house (below national average but ok) is paid off and there’s a bit of savings in the bank. Partner is now wife and she’s had a few career wobbles in the last 5 years and they have been survivable financially. We have friends who earn more and have had a ‘easy’ life since their early 30s and other friends who are still scrabbling in their early 50s.
But, we have lived to our means. PPI has not been a thing for us simply because the only loan we have had in 25 years is the mortgage. Maybe we have had a dull life and should have lived it large a bit more. Maybe we are lucky to have simple tastes.
Next goal is to give up our current careers and do something new in our early 50s. To afford do something new and less financially secure/rewarding without too much stress until retirement.
Define hard work – The hardest job I ever did was also one of the worst for pay. 12 hours a day, 5 days a week in a mill doing back breaking manual labour.
When I was sixteen and undecided I worked for 18months brazing on the brackets to the end of the arms you hang clothes in in retails stores. Likewise it was hot, noisy, dirty work. However, you walked out on Friday with an envelope full of cash, has a quick beer with the factory lads in the local and no work worries until Monday.
My work ethic started right then when I was bet I couldn’t shift the factory record of 1000 properly brazed units in 1 day. I did 1012, didn’t get paid a bean more.
I was accepted into REME at 18, but did a course in ‘puters instead. And here I am.
I loved that brazing job.
Footflaps +1
this makes for illuminating reading. 21st century UK, your parents wealth is still a significant factor in your wealth
Unfortunately, I have no savings at all. Pretty much week to week for us. 4 kids to support and no job now. I am lucky to have £160 per week left after all the bills have been taken care of. Sounds a lot, but when you break it down it isn't really for 5 of us. This is for food, clothes, shoes, school stuff, xmas/birthdays, days out (if we manage to go anywhere) etc. Whenever we have managed to save before, it would soon get swallowed up somewhere.
I have worked constantly since I was 14, longest job was my last one which was just over 13 years. I left to take care of Lyanda back in March of this year. I know at some point I will have to go back to work, but it is daunting at the moment just thinking about our new 'normal' future.
Define hard work – The hardest job I ever did was also one of the worst for pay.
Some of the hardest physically and mentally have been min wage jobs but the stress was different. In those jobs I did not sign off on something that if it went wrong people could die and more so I can be accountable for other people’s work I have never seen/reviewed.
Doing the former made me better at the latter and better at saving money when I had it. Mostly because I don’t want to have to do those min wage jobs again...
Well, following on from the should I go to France thread , which has not happened yet, most people are aware of my financial position. Yes i can access a wedge ofcash if I have to. This is mostly due to life choices and living like a monk for many years. Not qualifications based as iIhave none . Nor a wife or kids or feel the need to fill the void that this does inevitably. leave by spending money
Great Thread. Particularly interesting reading the paper income vs reality comments.
Another variable for me would be proximity to work. There is virtually no public transport where I live.
We live here due to my wife's family circumstances. I have been unable to find work in my field locally and have to commute using my own car. The cost of that is equivalent to doubling our mortgage.
So, while on paper we have a decent income, the commuting cost rips into disposable income and limits the amount we can save.
To answer the OP's question, we don't have a big stash of savings but enough to get by on for a few months if anything happened one of our jobs.
But I don’t, personally, consider that having a successful career is something that others can or should just attribute to “luck”.
It is not 100% down to luck but luck plays a big part in it. I have been very lucky. I was clever but didn't try hard at school so left with some very poor A level grades. Found it hard to get a job as have aspergers so not great at interviews but luckily got a job in IT (largely based on results of an IQ test) where I fitted in (IT departments of full of socially inadequate people)
I would say I have never worked especially hard in the last 30 years, although have always taken it seriously and done my best, but just find myself in jobs that I seem to be able to do quite well using the intelligence and natural ability I was born with (objective, analytical, good with data) which again is down to luck.
If I had worked really hard with the luck I have had then I guess I would be earning even more and be in a higher position in the company but very happy where I am.
Some of the hardest physically and mentally have been min wage jobs but the stress was different. In those jobs I did not sign off on something that if it went wrong people could die and more so I can be accountable for other people’s work I have never seen/reviewed.
Which is why a years compulsory care work after school and before higher education should be compulsory. Minimum wage, people die if you get it wrong. Perspective innit?
Which is why a years compulsory care work after school and before higher education should be compulsory. Minimum wage, people die if you get it wrong. Perspective innit?
Nope, nope and nope. The last people you want working in care are people who do not want to work in care.
Me
Or rather, self employed / contractor, have a decent pot in my company that's there for those times on the bench, which can be lengthy. Got reasonable savings too, but looking at my pension pot and what it can't buy in terms of a decent annuity, I'm thinking I need to keep the savings all for retirement (or up the pension contributions but then the returns on it I feel are crap). If not keep for health care should myself or a relative need some expensive care. Mortgage is paid off but I really need to move to a bigger house and that's going to be a fair size mortgage given the price difference from my tiny little place. At my age the mortgage is going to push into retirement to pay it off. Unless I move to an area of the country where things are way cheaper, but then the contract job is pretty much at an end and I'd be getting much lower income.
So, yeah, there's money saved but I look at the bigger picture and long term worries, ending up not spending it just in case, rather than blow it all (on coke and hookers etc). I probably should just do the latter and I'll live longer rather than die worrying about it 😀
Still, there's plenty of money for bikes.