We're having some work done replacing windows and we've been advised that we'll need to have a radiator removed while the work is carried out to permit access, then refit it afterwards. We could of course pay a plumber to do this but I thought in the true spirit of STW I'd see how much work is involved and whether I might do it myself.
The radiator is in a first floor bedroom. I could of course drain the entire system and remove it myself, then refit and refill after the work is complete. I've done that before, but back then we weren't living in the house so the heating being off didn't matter.
I have a recollection that you can freeze the pipes going into / out of the radiator and then remove it. Presumably you then don't have to drain off the entitre system, and can cap the pipes until the radiator is refitted, meaning I'd only need to bleed one radiator (or maybe do all just in case) rather than refilling the whole system. Is that right? Which bit do you freeze? if you freeze the joint, does that not make it hard to undo? If you don't will the radiator not leak when the joint is undone? I'll probably need to refreeze the pipes when refitting?
As always, any and all (constructive) feedback and advice appreciated!
I'm surprised a radiator is getting in the way of a window refit.
Build a box around it instead and pretend it is a fixed feature that can't be removed?
It's a bay window in a 1950s house, made of wood framing and tiles with very little else: we're having the entire bay rebuilt to add proper insulation, so the wall it's hanging off will vanish
... But crucially what colour is the carpet? It can be done but Ime will prob make a mess. I would drain the system. Once removed cap off the valves with 5 p coins wrapped in PTFE tape behind the compression nuts to be sure.
Ok, if it's a building site go for you're life. Isolate the rad, unscrew the tails quickly, make a token effort to catch some water in a bucket, you'll inevitably knock over later, and get the radiator flipped over with the tails in the air asap.
If it has them, turn off the balancing valve on the one end, turn off the TRV at the other. Open the bleed screw to check that the valves have worked, then crack open one of the radiator to valve/TRV connections to drain out into a folding bucket or improvised water catching thing. For piece of mind fit end caps to the valve and TRV either before lifting clear if you have enough flex in the pipes or afterwards.
I'll probably need to refreeze the pipes when refitting?
Fit isolation valves whilst it's frozen rather than capping it off?
Yeah wibble has it.
It should have a lockshield on one end and a control valve on the other end.
Just shut them both down. Grab one valve firmly* with a valve wrench and undo the nut.
Until ot dribbles... You put a towel down right?
Now get yourself ready witha tray, i find a decorators tray pretty good two is even better its loosen the nut more until it starts flowing out.
DO NOT TAKE THE NUT ALL THE WAY OFF
Until the radiator is empty.then undot both nuts fully and lift the radiator off.
*This is key its important you don't manage to crack the joint on the heating pipe to the valves or you now have a leak on the wrong side of the system which won't be spectacular but will require a freeze or a drain down.
Freezing is a pain in the arse, it works but its stressfull and sometimes it doesn't work and the icy slug flows along the pipe out the end and down your sleeve to your armpit before you can get your thumb on the end until your dad can stop laughing long enough to grab a push fit end cap. Ask me how i know.
Also its expensive and if it doesn't work draining the system is what you will end up doing anyway.
I'll probably need to refreeze the pipes when refitting?
Fit isolation valves whilst it's frozen rather than capping it off?
No. Don't put isolation valves on a heating system. They are not suitable and restrict the flow essentially making your heating pip a radiator. You would need a proper ggate valve for that. And the actual radiator valves do it anyway.
I have full bore isolation valves on my central heating system. I think the suggestion is to add a temporary isolation valve to prevent water leakage?
If it's a full bay window reconstruction and the pipes are surface mounted then maybe they need cutting elsewhere to aid the rebuild?
I've done it a few times for decorating.
Dunno if it's the best method, but seemed to work OK.
Shut lockvalve & TRV on either ends of radiator.
Crack open the fitting between the radiator & one of the valves - obviously on the radiator side of the valve, not the 'rest of the system' side. Some water (potentially very black & manky) will dribble out. Don't fully remove the connection or the water will pour out too fast
Get plenty of containers that you can put underneath and a couple of large buckets to decant into. You probably also want a load of old towels/dust sheets to collect the dribbles/drips.
Open the bleed valve & the water will pour out of the open connection. You can adjust the amount by pulling the connection apart a bit &/or opening the bleed valve more.
When it has taken so long you are convinced that you must actually be draining the whole system, the water will eventually stop. You can then carefully fully undo the fittings at both ends & remove the radiator. As soon as you slightly tip it, black watery sludge will pour forth & stain your carpet. I would get as much out as possible before carrying through the house. It helps to bung the holes.
Might be worth getting a waterproof plumbers bucket thing for the catching the water part.
Once the radiator is removed, I would cap the open pipes just to make sure. You can get blanking plugs for a few quid from any DIY place. You'll buy the wrong size at least once. Theoretically you don't need to do this, but I'd rather not risk the valve failing while the rad is off.
it only take a moment to roll a carpet back.
pressumably the window fitters would appreciate it too?
i think ive dont both in the past, but leaving the rad valves on requires a bit of slack in the pipes.
If you do take the valves off, you can buy 15mm caps for nowt in B&Q, but only use the cap part of it, fit it straight onto the existing radiator compression nut/olive arrangement.
i tend to not bother with a full drain, but i i do use the drain to remove the pressure from the system. 1-2 bar of heating pressure makes the water come out a lot quicker than ambient pressure.
I also keep a couple of the plastic john guest push fit isolators in the tool box. If it all goes wrong you can quickly cut the pipe off and shove the isolater over it to secure a leak.
I've done it a few times in the last few years for decorating & plastering. I followed this youtube vid and it worked a treat. Basically what's described above but I find it easier to watch someone do something to learn how to do it.
How to Remove and Replace a Radiator For Decorating - No Draining Required!
ou can then carefully fully undo the fittings at both ends & remove the radiator. As soon as you slightly tip it, black watery sludge will pour forth & stain your carpet.
Been there, got the t-shirt carpet stains. But yes, method described here is how we've temporarily removed several of our radiators over the past couple of years for plastering and redecoration.
Utterly manky black sludgy water from ours. Thought we'd drained it all. Nope. Thankfully planning to replace the previous owner's once-cream lounge carpet anyway!
Screwfix sell a triangular silicone tray with three different pipe sizes in the corners that slot around the radiator feed. It’s excellent, you’ll still need a towel, and a small bailer to transfer the water to a bucket so it doesn’t overfill.
I use a heavy duty rubble sack (plastic) with, crucially, no holes as a very flexible bucket/catch pan when removing rads. Also plastic self adhesive carpet protector down 1st in the area, towels at the ready just in case!
Hold the valve with grips, whilst undoing the back nut, saves having to repair the crimped pipe as well as re-fit the rad.
Stumpy (and a couple of others) have it nailed. Could I add that it's a whole lot easier if you have an assistant standing by to take full buckets away and supply empty ones while you're keeping the pipes apart.
As soon as you slightly tip it, black watery sludge will pour forth & stain your carpet.
Came to say this. Also grab a couple of cheap lockshield valves and use them to seal the remaining water in the radiator. If you’re taking it off then you may as well carry it outside and hose out the sludge.
Don’t rely on the TRV being turned off to be a watertight seal, get some caps.
no holes as a very flexible bucket/catch pan when removing rads.
Ooh i'veplayed that game.
"Hmm leak seems to have stopped the bucket isn't getting fuller... Nope thats the height of the crack and that will be the downstairs neighbours knocking on the door"
Everything is pretty much covered above.
Carpet up if you've got trades in, ideally.
You can get a cap to replace the TRV head to hold the valve closed, new valves come with one. Cap the valves if you want to as well.
Keep a wet and dry vac handy if you have one, but don't buy one specially. Lots of old towels will do.
Don't underestimate the weight of a bay window shaped rad, if that's what you have. Get help if only to avoid taking chunks out of the decor.
When the rad stops dribbling, take a bit more out with the vac. Remember to close the bleed screw and definitely flip it valve tails up as already suggested before carrying it.
If reusing it, give a good flush with a hose outside
Also, once drained as much as you can by gently tilting one side off the brackets, close the bleed screw, lift off the brackets and immediately rest the top of the rad on the floor on your towels, and lift the base so it’s upside down. Now it can’t dribble black gunge over the carpet as you stagger out of the house with it.