A good starting point is making sure you both have a good understanding on the value of DB pensions. As discussed above, potential valuations can be anything between 20x and 50x the annual pension.
Other assets are easier to value. However, with the house for example, an agreement needs to be made on at what point the valuation is made. Which is more pertinent in a rising or falling market. This will tend to depend on who is living there and who is contributing to the mortgage and bills.
Whilst I broadly agree that getting solicitors involved early is a good idea, their job will me much easier/cheaper if this is done in a non-confrontational way for as long as possible i.e. look at it as legal education. Whilst you also both work on your financial education.
Having just concluded my own divorce, I can tell you exactly what my solicitor told me and that is that in your case, with a marriage that long, everything will be considered marital and will be split equally between the two of you.
My mate is just going through this and is in the exact same position. Solicitor said he should split 50/50 without going to court but if he wants to fight it it will cost him £70k and the judge will still split it 50/50. He did actually make his ex sign a marriage contract saying what she would be entitled to but that's not worth the paper it's written on apparently.
He's having to pay an actuary a few grand to sort his pension stuff out plus of course his and her solicitors fees as he's taken the wrap for the divorce as the 'no fault' rule isn't in play yet.
also, i'll chip in with another bit of advice (or, well, a personal view).
This process is horrible and stressful. When you are going through it, it's NOT a nice place to be. You may want to get out of it ASAP.
You'll have family members and friends saying "fight her for this... challenge her for that".. it's well intended 'advice', but... it's VERY HARD when you are in the midst of it.
From a personal point of view, I let a lot of things 'slide' (lies she told to get a bigger payout etc) because I simply wanted done with it. I wasn't a pussy or rolling over- i made the concious decision that I'd rather be a bit poorer but happy and stress free 9and divorced/done with it all), than fight tooth and nail for every last penny I felt i was owed. People may think you're daft, or say you should keep fighting. But fighting is tiring. And life is meant to be fun and happy.
Good luck.
Life is tough,but so are you(/your friend)
DrP
I had to concede that my “ideal theoretical split” would be on the same terms.
I’m not sure if this was a good or a bad thing….
MCD - that's probably quite a good test for if you are "happily married"! As soon as someone feels pissed off or wants out then they will want disproportionately more or just to get away as quickly as possible.
MCD – that’s probably quite a good test for if you are “happily married”! As soon as someone feels pissed off or wants out then they will want disproportionately more or just to get away as quickly as possible.
Probably a fair comment. Maybe less "happily married" and more "Cold War Standoff" 🤣
He did actually make his ex sign a marriage contract saying what she would be entitled to but that’s not worth the paper it’s written on apparently.
"make"
Interesting choice of word...
and he wonders why it ended in divorce 🤣“make”Interesting choice of word…
and he wonders why it ended in divorce
I'm wondering how someone who thinks he is so clever as to get an agreement didn't know they can't be relied on in the UK....
DrP your experience mirrors my feelings on it all. Hopefully I can get through the process relatively painlessly...
Is there a good idiots guide available for all this?
There's lots of guides avaibalbe I guess... from the official legal side of things, to a more supportive 'broski' type side of things..
TBH, have a vent here, ask advice here... I did, and found it pretty useful!
DrP
He’s having to pay an actuary a few grand to sort his pension stuff out plus of course his and her solicitors fees as he’s taken the wrap for the divorce as the ‘no fault’ rule isn’t in play yet.
He doesn’t have to pay her fees at all; if he is then he’s doing it voluntarily. Same goes for the actuarial valuation. Of course more importantly ‘HE’ isn’t paying for anything period; ‘THEY’ are paying for it all from their share of the total pot. If a marriage has been for longer than say 12 years, all assets are marital and thus shared.
My ex and I took credit cards out with zero percent on new spend and paid our fees on those until the family home was sold. It cost me about £17,000 all in.
In the first meeting I suggested 50/50; her lawyer (who was in the room at the same time as mine as we went down the collaborative route) said she should take it. Mine said I might well be entitled to more and I should consider exploring that. I reiterated that for the sake ease and saving money I would still table 50/50 but my ex insisted on trying to keep her pension out of the equation.
In the end we settled 52/48 in my favour. 🤦♂️
Lots of good advice here, and the best is from those that have got through it (DrP and judetheobscure for example but thanks to everyone for chipping in). I'm 20 months separated and only just edging closer to a financial settlement.
(Edited as I probably should get a different username to do this. )
it seems like a lot of the settlements haven't gone 50:50 from the annecdotal evidence. Out of interest, other than supporting a kid, whats been the factors that have swung it away from an even split? Obviously people can lie during the proceedings, but I'm not sure what saying "I bought this expensive car with my inheritance before we got married" does (regardless of truth) if the assets are equally owned due to marriage
@5lab if one person says they brought assets into the marriage and it can be shown/argued they have not 'intermingled' then that can be an argument for not splitting equally. There may be other reasons. IANAL... Just a recipient of solicitors letters.
Out of interest, other than supporting a kid, whats been the factors that have swung it away from an even split?
As above, if there is a very substantial difference in what was brough to the marriage in the first place then there may be a case to adjust things there, but the difference has to be significant; £100k isn't considered significant in a marraige of 14 years for example and the longer the marriage has been in place, the less likely you are to successfully make that case.
But there are valid reasons why it might not be 50/50 and the key here is the way the family courts rule on financial settlements. Their guiding principle is worded as 'the needs of both parties must be sufficiently met'; if one party were for example 60 and with very little pension savings and and the other were say 40 but with substantial pension savings, then the older party would likely get a more generous settlement to compensate for the fact that they simply cannot earn the pension they need to sustain them. This is why my split was slighyly in my favour - I am slightly older than my ex.
The one overwhelming piece of advice I would reiterate time and time again however is this:
Do your best to be the very best ex they could possibly hope for (even if no one ever hopes to have a good ex!) and if there are kids involved, then this times a thousand.
It's very easy to give way to malice, spite and hate but in the end those negative emotions will chew you up and make you very unhappy.
I'm very fotunate that having adopted this approach myself (and with two young children that spend exactly equal time with myself and my ex) my ex also responded in kind. It took a while but she did eventually and we are co-parenting now better than we ever did as a couple!
Obviously seek professional advice.
When I got divorced I kept my pension and my ex wife got the equivalent in equity of the marital home. Ours was a fairly amicable divorce.
That suited her better at the time, she was free to take the cash from the property once sold.
Do your best to be the very best ex they could possibly hope for (even if no one ever hopes to have a good ex!) and if there are kids involved, then this times a thousand.
It’s very easy to give way to malice, spite and hate but in the end those negative emotions will chew you up and make you very unhappy.
I’m very fortunate that having adopted this approach myself (and with two young children that spend exactly equal time with myself and my ex) my ex also responded in kind. It took a while but she did eventually and we are co-parenting now better than we ever did as a couple!
perfectly put.
so in my case the financial split side of things was going to be pretty much 50:50 for the 'whole pot', which consisted of pensions (both of us, but mine was higher) and the house value.
I'm pretty young, so wanted to split BOTH aspects (pension and house) 50:50.. i needed the 'cash in hand' from the house so rehome me and my kids (have them 50:50)..
I earn well, and she actually earns a fortune too (as a limited company that's just her...)... but she swindled the figures to that the limited company was racking up HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in it's bank account, and she was paying herself a few quid... thus making HER look poor on paper...
She then argued she'd need MORE of the house equity as "i'm so poor boo hoo hoo...can only afford a small mortgage etc"
I just shook my head, couldn't be bothered with it all, and agreed. I DID keep more of my pension, but as stated I'd have liked more actual real money NOW...
As soon as that was all agreed she miraculously was able to take the hundreds of thousands from the house equity, and utilise a magic, yet undisclosed pot of money (see limited company guff above!), and be able to afford a big house (actually, she bought out the family home..something she blank claimed she couldn't afford to do...until she could)..
Anyway.. I know what went on, as does everyone else..
BUt.. i got a 'fair shair' of the total in the end, and I'm now with a lovely partner... I'd infinately rather be poor (OK, i'm not, but I was financially screwed) and be rid of the horrible Ex....!!!!
DrP
He did actually make his ex sign a marriage contract saying what she would be entitled to but that’s not worth the paper it’s written on apparently.
“make”
Interesting choice of word…
He didn't really want to get married but that was the quid pro quo they agreed on. Not that the settlement would have made a difference if they were married or not.
and he wonders why it ended in divorce 🤣
after nearly 30 years, seems a common thing.
Now I have a question out of interest. Hypothetically, what would happen if you married 5 times over a lifetime, having a kid with each wife and divorcing them all. Alongside this you only earned the uk average salary. Would you get £0 to live on after paying fees?
Gamblers and fools all too often lose everything.
Are you Boris Johnson and asking 'for a friend'?
