[Closed] Distraught Wife due to uni results, advice needed...

Mentor or personal tutor giving the advice? It's not clear from the post and the tutor is the one she needs to speak to. I have also put out a prod to Sandwich Jr who recently finished his degree, it's his day off so any answer will be later today (early evening if I'm lucky!).

Have you tried contacting NSU for advice?

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a possibility to redo the full final year and submit new dissertation on a different topic.

Not nursing, but i've had several friends that have had to redo a year for one reason or another.

Fingers crossed it works out.

As above, it sounds like she needs to speak to someone with actual influence, such as the department head.

If nothing can be done about the current situation, can't she just repeat the final year?

I think its her course leader she has been speaking to.
There was a different member of staff assigned to her to mentor her through her dissertation, that was the one who disappeared on holiday.
Thinking back to when I did my degree, I had a course leader but a different staff member who I met for support during my dissertation.

With it being a nursing degree, (funded by the NHS), I'm not sure if it works differently.

What are the rest of her marks like? perhaps nursing genuinely isn't for her

perhaps nursing genuinely isn't for her

😡 Not needed. I say fair play to anyone who takes on doing a degree/dissertation whilst also on a full time placement and has two young kids.

Can't offer any advice but good luck to your wife OP 🙂

perhaps nursing genuinely isn't for her

🙄 Because writing a 'long essay' is an everyday skill in nursing.... 🙄

Good luck OP, hope you get it sorted

Surely she needs to understand why the dissertation is failing, what feedback is she getting? Is her supervisor doing any proof reading and helping steer it? The only people I've seen fail these are people who can't be arsed, so if she is putting the time in then something is going badly wrong somewhere.

I would have thought that not having guidance from the dissertation supervisor for the resubmission would be a valid grounds for appeal. I failed a student on placement and their appeal carried on for almost a year as they appealed their failed appeal.
I knew someone who failed their 4 yr education degree at the dissertation stage but I sincerely hope this doesn't happen and I think it's also quite unusual to fail at that late stage.
Fingers crossed for your wife.

I hope it works out - the dissertation often only makes up a proportion of the final year results, so hopefully she can carry through her other results? Speak with her tutor / course principal to see why the dissertation was failed and what options are available, I would doubt having got this far the entire year is lost. There may be the option to re-present the dissertation - often reasons for failing are not taking the advice of the tutor, particularly in terms of the research methodology and demonstrating academic rigour. Higher Education establishments don't like failing people for good reason as it impacts on their results / funding. Good luck.

I would have thought that her tutor should have been advising her on the dissertation before submission so that it didn't come to this point. You don't just write it sat in a room on your own and not show it until submission day.
I think the advice about seeing the head of department/nursing school as above is sound. First port of call.
I'd say it sounds like your wife has received some poor support.
All will not be lost though, you need to find out what the options are now from the university and look forward not backward.
Good luck.

From my experience I cant see how a dissertation could fail if you have been having regular meetings with your supervisor. Is it failing on a technicality such as references not correctly cited. That was a big thing for my degree.

Speak to the course admin and head to get it sorted but don't panic yet.

Academic here, with an interest in appeals because one of mine has recently managed to fail his PhD, so I am learning all about how it works, at least in our place.

It won't be irretrievable at this stage. The important thing is to find out what the due process is and follow it to the letter. Grounds for appeal for us include extenuating circumstances which the markers would have taken into account had they been aware. It sounds like you've tried this but you can (and in my view should) challenge their rejection of the extenuating circumstances statement because it wasn't submitted on the day the result was published. That's pretty unreasonable unless they have made it very clear beforehand. It's also stupid because it can take time to assemble such a statement and ours have to be supported by paperwork (eg doctors' letters) which can take time to assemble. My lad has 20 working days to appeal his decision.

From what you have said, there may also be grounds around inadequate supervision/poor advice but be very careful about this one. It is very easy to get her tutor/mentor on the defensive but the tutor can and should be useful so you don't want to alienate them unless you have to.

I would assemble all the arguments (write them down) and take them to the mentor as a first step. Ask the mentor if it needs to go higher up the food chain at this stage- course director, head of department.... Keep it civil and make notes of any meetings or phone calls, either at the time or immediately afterwards.

Also, do not involve lawyers at this stage. That will guarantee the university gets very defensive and sticks to the letter of the rules, whereas they can and ususally will be flexible if you give them the opportunity.

Good luck and get back to me if you need anything else

To practice as a nurse she needs the advanced diploma - it may be worth looking at it she has passed this with the rest of the course she has done. I did nursing a long time ago so this may have changed, however our course was for the diploma with the degree based on the dissertation.

There are many ways she could then go on to to do the degree later open university - or obviously via her institution that she is currently with.

We were among the first year to do nursing at Sheffield hallam as previously nursing had been delivered at the uni of Sheffield. There were many complaints about the way the course was delivered and supervised.

I would say don't be afraid to pursue the uni for letting down their side of things. Nursing courses are hard in terms of juggling study and work placements and the tutors have to be available to offer guidance.

If she has passed her diploma this should give her some reassurance that she can start looking for work whilst she sorts out the degree/dissertation.

There could have been a few reasons to fail, my niece has been through the same process in Bournemouth.
She had to go back a few months. As a nurse of 20 years experience I strongly believe that Universities really don't have a clue about the NHS and what makes a ward nurse. Haven't seen a lecturer show their face on the wards for over 10 Years and its changed a lot since then.

Tell her not to give up.

I would have thought that her tutor should have been advising her on the dissertation before submission so that it didn't come to this point. [i]You don't just write it sat in a room on your own and not show it until submission day.[/i]

Uh....respectfully, yes, that's exactly what does happen. When I did my Masters, I had one meeting with my assigned tutor, found her really unhelpful and disinterested and just cracked on myself. Same with many of my peers.

Probably not the best way, but happens a lot I think.

As @fife says I'd be very surprised if she can't repeat the last year with respect to working on a new dissertation.

Being harsh I am not sure what grounds you think there are for appeal - if its been failed twice there must be an issue with it. A supervisor is perfectly entitled to take a holiday and not be available, I think the view would be there was plenty of time to work on dissertation in the months before submission.

A good friend (nurse) had to take an extra year for her PhD after first submission needed more work. She had to juggle that with going back to full time work after study leave ended

Tough times OP but the answer may well be a new dissertation submitted next year

You def need to find out why the dissertation failed both times and how the feedback after the first failed submission wasn't delivered to her.

Depending on the institution they may be lenient and allow her to submit again at the end of this semester.

As above don't go in all guns blazing or chucking blame. Uni's are alot about outward perception so they don't want her to fail as that can make them look bad, so they should be open to helping her as along as she is willing to do the work still.

Fair play to her to get to this stage with full-time placement and kids, that's a great achievement in and of itself

@reformedfatty - shame on you

There's a different argument here to be had about whether Nursing really needs a degree at Entry-Level, and whether it might be better further down the Career path. I know a few atrocious nurses who got the degree, and some Health Care Assitants who function at a level higher than them, with no degree and the opportunity for advancement and a higher salary stifled by the hurdle of a degree and its entry requirements.

But, [b]OP[/b] sounds like there are some support and mentorship issues here, as others have said. I wish her luck. Hang in there.

I don't see how it's reasonable to expect someone to resubmit, with a short deadline and without reasonable feedback as to what needed improvement, tbh, regardless of the subject.

From my experience I cant see how a dissertation could fail if you have been having regular meetings with your supervisor. Is it failing on a technicality such as references not correctly cited. That was a big thing for my degree.

Speak to the course admin and head to get it sorted but don't panic yet.

+1 sounds like something had gone a bit wrong before the final submission... I had several reviews with my mentor where we went through my draft version etc.

The be fair going on holiday at this time doesn't put you in a great light - but it is done now.

However, we don't know if feedback was ever sought out in the first place. Uni's aren't schools, you have to go and find stuff out, you want feedback go ask for it. I accept that if you are working full time then arranging a face to face meeting could be tricky, but there is still the phone, email, skype etc.

Being harsh I am not sure what grounds you think there are for appeal - if its been failed twice there must be an issue with it. A supervisor is perfectly entitled to take a holiday and not be available, I think the view would be there was plenty of time to work on dissertation in the months before submission.

*If the tutor was on holiday but hadn't provided sufficient feedback to aid a successful resubmission then they've let her down. If they did and it did't get to her then it's the institution who let her down. If she recieved the feedback but didn't act on it correctly then it's her fault, but there should still be a way to get this degree finished successfully.*

*all speculation on my part.

Unfortunately for all the brilliant and conscientious academics out there, there are some very piss-poor ones. Let's hope this gets dealt with by the former

Unfortunately for all the brilliant and conscientious [b]academics[/b] out there, there are some very piss-poor ones.

The key is they are academics not baby sitters or school teachers, the onus is on you not them.

Does your wife have a named personal tutor who she can talk to. If your university has them then they won't have had anything to do with your wife academically but will be in the same school / dept and are there to help when things have gone wrong between the student and the academic staff they do have contact with.

perhaps she didnt tick all the boxes to become a nurse, x in the wrong box will be remembered as in any job,and when you meed more ticks those x marks always come back.

Surely over the time of the course someone in authority saw fit to tell her she wasnt suitable, buck her ideas up or to even offer more remedial help.

When she found out the mentor was on leave, who did she approach in their absence?

Project, somewhat brutal assessment. 😯

Thanks for all the replies.
Turns out her original dissertation mentor left mid way, but support up to that point, compared to her fellow students; had (she felt) fallen short in terms of guidance in the suitability of her research material. She was assigned another mentor who was unable to fit her in before she herself went on holiday. No alternative support was offered when asked for.

She met with the head of adult nursing today who's basically said in two weeks, after the next exam board, that she will be officially off the course.!!!
He's basically said speak to student services.
No opportunity to re-do the last year, & the dissertation is a requirement of the course, so short of points in that respect.

So, her last hope is an appeal, assisted by student services, but I can't help think it's a done deal.
The rustler home is not a great place to be right now.

I can't help thinking there's a missing piece of the puzzle here.

As others have said, Uni's generally want students to pass as it helps make them look good. Also, regarding lack of supervision for dissertation i agree with @oafishb, i feel thats quite a normal situation to be in. Certainly was for me doing both BSc and MSc at different institutions.

Frankly i wrote two fairly miserable dissertations that wandered off on several tangents to cover for the fact my underlying practical work was an unmitigated disaster on both occasions. They still both passed with solid if unspectacular marks.

So overall finding it hard to beleive a dissertation can fail twice, and equally hard to beleive the Uni don't want to help. Assuming of course there isn't some crucial bit of information we are missing here.

Again, really hope it all works out, as to pass all the coursework and then lose it all based on a stupid essay would be heartbreaking for anyone.

takisawa2 - Member
Project, somewhat brutal assessment.

Having worked in the nhs twice, once with student nurse training for 6 happy years before degree book learning became the norm, and practical caring on ward duties seemed to take a back space, its not a brutal assesment, but based on fact at what i saw, some nurses had excellent caing abilities, lovely personalities but where poor at book learning , they made great trainees, and did well with patient/staff interaction/reactions.

One or two others, where book learning orientated and saw patients as them and us, they knew the answers and talked the learnt talk, and somehow qualified, they then went onto other things.

Then there where the first camp trainees, who sadly upset someone on the way up and it was remembered and reported back to others, one small indescresion and a career is lost. probably the same happens in all industries workplaces.

The sad thing is this poor lady has been allowed to do so much work, without any proper back up and support, and her husband is reduced to asking advice on a bike forum,she needs to make a formal complaint, both to the univercity and the nursing council, because it may be happening to others.

Sorry to hear this. As above unis want people to pass and really helped a couple of students on my course with poor dissertations to redo.

In the end there was 100% pass rate, even me and that took some doing.

Good luck

So, her last hope is an appeal, assisted by student services, but I can't help think it's a done deal.
The rustler home is not a great place to be right now.

She is still floundering, and allowing herself to have things done to her.

It should never have got to this stage, but seeing as it has, then she should get some very good union representation to assist her with her appeal. She should pick up the phone to them now.

Her grounds for appeal need to be rock solid.

I'm not sure the union can help, as I suspect she's not an employee.

I'm not sure the union can help, as I suspect she's not an employee.

The National Union of Students

I know it's not my guys, because we don't do nursing, but stuff like this typically falls between 2 posts- the department, and the registrar. If everything you say is accurate, then our registrar would most likely be delivering chinese burns to school staff as we speak and some manner of resolution would be arrived at for her. It's not my field but I'd suspect we'd be looking at a year resit (which doesn't mean redoing the entire course, just the bits that are required)

Unis can be a bit byzantine but there is generally a clear complaints process and route for escalation, these are bits where creeping corporatism can be pretty useful.

two thoughts.. firstly you pay these folks to do a job and they ve failed to do it.. reading and working through a dissertation is a fairly basic part of that. a former mrs tts found herself royally stuffed after completing her nursing degree even getting her MP involved did not change anything and she had to do another year..

another former mrs tts ( i like wedding cake) couldnt please her tutor with her efforts at her dissertation so in the end I as a plumber did some reading and wrote a fabulous piece on amputation of toes for diabetics including designing a nice educational leaflet for patients about to have surgery.. passed as well.. missed my way clearly.

I think its her course leader she has been speaking to.

If she's getting no joy with the course leader then the head of school of health is the person to go to. Which uni is it?

Hope it works out. Certainly I've encountered my share of rubbish supervision at this level and heard some horror stories that have been worked out through conversation with the uni department.

Apologies if the query about the other marks came off harsh, we can't all be rocket scientists, and if that's an unrealistic goal everyone's better off knowing sooner - but I would hope that as she's in her final year this isn't the case

Try contacting your students union, they should have some sort of advocacy service for academic matters and be able to help.