OK, so we all know what Prince Harry called one of his mates. Looking for thoughts on a similar term that I've seen used: "Sikhy". Is that derogatory and racist in any circumstances in the same way?
Yeah.
"Throwing a Sikhy" is like ****-bashing, but worse.
why o why would you post this 🙄 its gonna run and run
My nan had a poodle called Sukhy
I guess it's the connotation rather than the word itself. The word that Harry used is synonymous with racism, therefore unacceptable.
*Elbows way to front.*
Can't say I've heard that one before.
Must confess, I did have a little s**** (all right you lot at the back, that's S****, you guttersnipes) at Moses' gag.
Think this has all been done now, really, though.
surely there must be some kind of racial intent thrown in with said racial comment? Can't some of these things be said in jest? Not that I think I'd ever use certain words
Similar to when my mates call me a fat/lanky/mackem bastard, (someimes all 3 in one sentance)
[url= http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VcugUcHnsqs&feature=PlayList&p=318AA5EDEBB55AE6&playnext=1&index=7 ]Just wouldn't get away with it now![/url]
Ah ha, but when I might be called 'white boy' or a 'limey' or a 'pome', is that racist???
Is it (said Prince Harry comment) a racist comment exclusive to England, and maybe other western countries??
Surely ****(stani's) and Indians have the same, shall we say, social disagreement that we ourselves have with the French. We don't really dislike them that much (although they do smell and speak funny), but calling a Frenchman a frog is not deemed to be racist but calling a ****stani a **** is....... where is the logic in that??
I get called a sheep sha**er every sunday by my brother in law. I get highly offended and respond by saying his son has my eyes. It is quite bad how words are perceived - a **** is deemed highly racist where as ****stani isn't, you wouldn't think twice if someone called you a brit. I think in this day and age anything you think 'could' have an alternative meaning should just be avoided if you don't know the person and how they would react
Earlier, I watched a bit of Jerry Springer Show where a black bloke was openly saying white people are trash and he hates them. It went on and on and on and he didn't get called a racist. Is it because in US you can't be a racist if you're black or is it because it was JSS?
because being white makes you automatically racist and also immune from racism....apparently
I'll be perfectly honest, I loled at the clip bruneep linked to!
Wogs, now there's a word..
A word used to describe people of Indian and White parentage- I think 'Mixed Race' is the currently accepted term. Technically, I spose, I'm a 'Wog'.
I think I actually prefer 'Wog', to 'Mixed Race'. Less of a mouthful, for one. But am I allowed to call myself that? I dunno. I got in trouble once, for describing myself as a 'Mongrel'. The reaction of some people, to that one, quite threw me!
As for the 'only White's can be racist', well, by far the most racism I encounter, where I live, comes from some of the Bangladeshi people. There's an awful lot of fear and ignorance, within that community, unfortunately. There have been quite a few convictions for Racially Aggravated Assault, of young Bangladeshi men. For some really vicious crimes.
I'm not going to get too involved in this one. I think last week's thread on this was pretty good, and threw up lots of interesting opinions. T'was a credit to STW, mostly.
calling a Frenchman a frog is not deemed to be racist but calling a ****stani a **** is....... where is the logic in that??
Er, easy:
The first is an attack on a person because his nationality - it's called xenophobia.
The second is an attack on a person because of the colour of his skin - it's called racism.
"Wog" is short for Gollywog.
Never tried calling a black person by that term, suspect it wouldn't go down too well though.
According to Wiki:
Wog is in the UK usually regarded as an offensive slang word referring to people of color from Africa or Asia. The origin of the term is uncertain. Many dictionaries say "wog" possibly derives from the Golliwogg, a blackface minstrel doll character from a children's book published in 1895. An alternative is that "wog" originates from Pollywog, a maritime term for someone who has not crossed the equator. Attempts to derive "wog" from such phrases as "Worthy Oriental Gentleman", "Working On Government Service" (digging the Suez Canal) or "White Oriental Gentleman" are however considered backronyms.
The use of the word is discouraged in Britain, and most dictionaries refer to the word with the caution that it is derogatory and offensive slang.
The saying "The wogs begin at Calais" was originated by George Wigg, Labour MP for Dudley, in 1949. In a parliamentary debate concerning the Burmese, Wigg shouted at the Tory benches, "The Honourable Gentleman and his friends think they are all 'wogs'. Indeed, the Right Honourable Member for Woodford [i.e. Winston Churchill] thinks that the 'wogs' begin at Calais."[1] Wigg's coinage, sometimes paraphrased as "Wogs start at the Channel" or "Wogs start at Dover", is used to characterise a stodgy Europhobic viewpoint, and more generally the view that Britain (more so England) is inherently separate from (and superior to) the Continent. In this case, "wog" is used to compare any foreign, non-English person to those more traditionally labeled "wogs".
Er, easy:The first is an attack on a person because his nationality - it's called xenophobia.
The second is an attack on a person because of the colour of his skin - it's called racism
Both can be considered xenophobic or racist depending on the intent behind the remark. The fact you assume it is because of the colour of the persons skin (which, sadly, it usually is) and not purely their origin is a little racist within itself.
It seems to be a major grey area.....globally
The origins of the word Wog are hazy, although most of the Wiki-ish definitions are sketchy (some are utter bollocks), I know that. I believe it to be a word of Indian origin, that became adopted by British Colonials. But I'm sure it started off as a word describing people of Asian/White origin, or those of light brown complexion. Someone like me, basically.
The Golliwog thing is a corruption of the word. Probably from 'Kali (meaning Black) and Wog. A strange combination. Points toward the fact that 'Wog' means 'foreigner', 'different', 'weird', 'outsider', etc. IE, someone who is 'not of our like'. People who were the result of (almost always) illicit liasons between White and Indian folk, were always going to be considered 'outcastes' anyway, as such unions were not just frowned upon, but mostly expressly forbidden.
Anyway, I quite like it, as a word to define myself.
So 'wog' might be the origin of 'golliwog' then, rather than vice versa?
You learn something new every day!
"Sikhy" isnt racist to me. It actually sounds endearing to be honest.
"Sikhy" isnt racist to me.
Are you a sikh though? I've always thought of you as a chetnik...
🙂
Whatever you do, don't call a spade a spade.
Hmm, can we call it a 'digger', then?
I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. Our upbringings must have been very different.
Ever seen a shovel?
Entirely random thought. Is it correct that "mongo" is a derogatory term for a person with Downs Syndrome, rather than for a national of Mongolia?
I once knew a Chinese overseas student called Chinkit (well thats how it was pronounced). Gawd she was very very nice and it was ace racially abusing her in bed 😀 8)
People with Downs Syndrome were originally called mongoloids, until the Mongolian ambassador complained about it. So they changed the name to Downs Syndrome, named after him!
Think so. It's horrible, too. And to think, terms such as 'Mong', 'Spaccer', 'Flid' and 'Biffa' were common, when I was at school. Kids can be so cruel.
Fortunately, most grow up...
miketually- not true. Downs syndrome is so called after the doctor that identified the condition. Dunno about the 'Mongoloid' thing. My mum refers to people with downs as 'Mongoloid', as that is how they were described in medical circles (she was a nurse), until fairly recently.
[i]Kids can be so cruel.[/i]
[simpsons mode on]
we can? cool!
[simpsons mode off]
Hairychested, the chap you describe was undoubtedly being racist, and if people didn't say that, it's probably because it would be stating the obvious. However, you might want to bear in mind that if you're white, European and male it's rarely a disadvantage in our society, and one nutter ranting on Jerry Springer is hardly going to change that. 😉
*Ricky Gervais*
"Spakka"
"It's scope actually…"
miketually- not true.
You're right: [url= http://www.ds-health.com/trisomy.htm ]http://www.ds-health.com/trisomy.htm[/url]
Hey Rudeboy, I supose you would not like it if someone called you "wog" who you did not know as that would be bad manners?
You hear "black" people call each other the "N" word but they would not like a white person to call them that.
So what is the term "half cast" mean ?
Opening a can of worms here but I'm struggling to see any parallel between racism and derogatory remarks about peoples mental conditions?
Surely any remark aimed at someone with a learning disability hurts the parent or carer whereas a racist remark is immediately felt and understood by the primary target?
Sorry if that view offends anyone but I think feeling hurt on anothers behalf is abit lame.
Your girlfriend is a cheap slut? 😯
Er, easy:The first is an attack on a person because his nationality - it's called xenophobia.
The second is an attack on a person because of the colour of his skin - it's called racism
Wouldnt zenophobia be a fear of people from a different country, whereas racism is discrimination against someone from a different country, racism has nothing to do with the colour of ones skin (other than the misinformed use it as a differentiator to identify country of origin, which doesnt really work due to many second generation people born in this country etc.
Surely any remark aimed at someone with a learning disability hurts the parent or carer whereas a racist remark is immediately felt and understood?
I have encountered quite a few people with problems such as Downs who were perfectly capable of realising people were being unpleasant about them and getting very upset. Its remarkable how well they pick up on such things. And no, feeling sorry for someone else isnt lame - its called empathy, its what sets us apart from psychopaths etc!
Coffeeking understood. Im talking about their depth of understanding.
I once went out with a girl who suffered terribly from racist comments growing up in Sheffield. She couldnt even listen to a remark made as a pure joke by a comedian. In a way it affected her, how she grew up IMO.
coffeeking (and stompy) - my post was, I admit, a little simplistic. I agree that it's not straightforward.
The fear bit is true in the sense of a literal translation of the Greek, but the term is commonly used to describe a dislike of those (actually or perceived to be) foreign.
I was going to add to my post somethign about ethnicity being the key driver for discrimination, rather than "race", which in terms of colour alone is considered to be a somewhat outdated identifier. If we look at the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s, we see that people of the same "race" (white Europeans) were doing each other in because of ethnic differences. Ethnic differences can exist within a nation state, and also transcend the boundaries of nation states.
And then, we get onto the idea of nationality - is an Englishman abusing a Scotsma for being Scottish racist? Unlikely. Is it differentiating him because of ethnicity? Unlikely, but possible. Is it xenophobia? Unlikely, but possible.
So, it's not all, er, black and white. And we're all grey.
KKF; I've been called worse. But you have a point. I spose there's a difference to how I describe myself, and whayt I'd be comfortable with others calling me. If, for example, someone I knew was asked 'what is RudeBoy's race?', or whatever, and they said 'oh, he's a Wog', then I wouldn't find that offensive at all, if the word was accepted as a simply descriptive one. But as it does have nasty offensive connotations, then I spose it's not socially acceptable. And neither is 'Mongrel', apparently..
Hey ho.
But I admit, I find using terms such as 'Wog' or 'Mongrel' quite amusing, sometimes. Cos I know it shocks people. Bit naughty of me, I admit. But I do object, when filling out a form, where they ask your racial origin, to having no option except 'Other'. Now that, I do find offensive.
Because it's a right mouthful, having to say 'Mixed Race Asian/White'. If I could just say something like 'Wog', and everyone knew what I meant, and there was not nastiness associated with the word, then I'd be happy.
As for 'half-caste', well apparently, that's now seen as unacceptable, as it has 'negative connotations'.
Speaking from personal experience, I'd say that growing up as a 'Mixed race' person is quite difficult, in terms of being able to define your own identity. You're neither this, nor that, and M-R people do feel quite excluded, at times. And I know that I, and other M-R friends felt quite put out, recently, with the election of the first 'Black' US President, and the first 'Black' F1 driver. To label these two people thusly, ignores and even rejects their White heritage. I must say, I was very pleased to hear Barrack describe himself as a 'Mongrel'. That did make me smile. And I am sure they, as I am, are very proud of their White heritage. I'm enormously proud of all aspects of my racial and cultural heritage, and would love to be able to use just a single word to describe that.
Feel free to continue discussing the issue in general, but I'd be really interested in any more thoughts on the term "SIKHY"
How would it be pronounced? 'See-ky'? Or 'Sikky'?
Maybe better to ask some Sikh people themselves.
I see your thinking, but it doesnt make sense to identify people by every possible MR possibility, you'd end up with people wanting to be "mixed race asian/white but more white than asian" etc. Cant see how "other" is offensive TBH, its just a category, not a method of deciding your worth.
Its very rare that my religious beliefs are given as an option on forms when they ask for religion, doesnt upset me when I have to tick "other"?
Never heard of sikhy. I did once use the phrase "dirty arab" to a mate when standing next to an arabian girl in an engineering workshop (I know, a girl, in an engineering workshop, a rarity to say the least!). She found it funny and held up her hands which were covered in oil (I'm not sure she realised I wasnt talking about her), but I realised that the term I'd been using most of my life (simply as a name for someone who's covered in muck, not considering the racial link at all) could be considered pretty offensive in certain ways even if it wasnt intended that way. That was the last time I used that phrase!
Surely it is possible to be insulting, abusive or racist using virtually any words within our language? Isn't it the intent that carries the offence, or do we now have PC police everywhere where any innocent use of any word whatsoever potentially offends someone somewhere?
For example, I recently received a proper trimming up over the use of the word "lady". To me in my generation (52 ans) the word is a respectful term with absolutely no negativity attached to it. So when and by whose say so did lady move into the same area as slag, slut etc.?
****, well thats a shortening of the word ****stan, in much the same way that Brit is for British and so on. The insult is in the intent with which its used, and quite simply it can be said in mnay ways and in many circumstances without it being negative. Equally so the other way around.
So intent is the issue surely.
