Rather than articulate a verbose piece of social prose, I'd like to bullet point the principal events that I believe have precipitated the wanton criminality we have seen over the last few days. And what I believe will effect the collapse of our society. We are on the cusp of social failure because of a confluence of events from the last 30 or so years.
Widespread industrial action in the 70s damages the British economy and the reputation of our manufacturing base. Moreover, it leads to the downfall of Callaghan's Labour government and clears the way for Thatcher's election to power in 1979.
Thatcher's government effectively neuters the trade unions and champions privatisation of nationalised industries; coal, gas, steel etc..
Hundreds of thousands of council houses are sold to become private homes.
Corporal punishment is abolished in schools. Teachers can no longer wield deterrents such as the cane or the strap. As a direct result, the standard of behaviour in schools begins to fall.
Britain's manufacturing industry; steel, shipyards etc. falls into decline. Employment is driven to an all time high. Dole queues lengthen up and down the country. The benefits bill increases exponentially. School leavers struggle to find work. The working class family unit is under massive strain.
In an attempt to employ those school leavers who are not going on to further education, YTS schemes are launched.
Thatcher's government promotes development of the financial and service sectors to encourage economic growth.
The yuppie is born. A stark class divide is seen on a scale hitherto unknown.
Advances are made in computers and telecommunications. The car phone, mobile phone and home computer come to market.
Privatisation continues apace with British Rail being sold off in 1994 by Thatcher's successor, John Major.
Violent and overtly sexual films, music and video games proliferate.
Frequent heavy drinking becomes socially acceptable, almost a national hobby. Alcopops and other novelty alcoholic drinks flood the market. Alcohol is no longer a taboo. Booze-fuelled fights on the streets of towns and cities are more commonplace and more frequently involve drunken females.
TV becomes generally more risque with the advent of shows like the The Word and The Girlie Show.
British industry continues to decline with the loss of major employers such as GEC, Ferranti, BREL.
The Labour Government is elected to power with Blair as prime minister in 1995.
To ease unemployment, academia is dumbed down to increase the number of students able to progress through sixth form and university.
The internet flourishes and its take-up by the public is enormous. Sales of desktop and laptop computers continue to increase. The number of websites offering porn, images of mutilation and violence snowballs.
Video games such as Grand Theft Auto rise in popularity with players of similarly violent games getting younger and younger.
Gangsta rap with its vivid descriptions of inner ghetto depravation, cop killing and gang violence becomes more popular. Its imagery is shown on satellite and cable music channels.
European borders are opened allowing residents of Eurozone countries to freely gain employment in the UK. Vacancies for low paid / undesirable jobs are quickly filled.
Celebrity magazines OK, Hello etc. and reallity shows such as Cribz beam images of grandiose properties, supercars, haute-couture, decadent jewellery and high-end home electronics into the living rooms of low income families.
Shows like Pop Idol and X-Factor promote the notion that fame and wealth are within the grasp of all. Kids dream of becoming a pop star or a premiership footballer.
Credit crunch - small and medium businesses fail in their hundreds. Mortgages are harder to qualify for and minimum deposits on home loans increase and are out of the reach of many.
More job losses, pay cuts and pay freezes put pressure on government and families.
Social networks like Facebook enable the more efficient disemination of plans and thoughts. Other sites such as YouTube encourage self promotion.
Fuel prices, both for home and vehicles increase way above inflation. Food bills increase by 30-40% as the cost of all food groups increases due to a coincidence of global events.
Stop. Take a breath.
As a result of what I have described above, we have bred this so-called lost, detached generation. This disenfranchised youth. Of course, these are misnomers; convenient media tags to assign to those we saw destroying and stealing others' property on TV last night.
I believe that they were synthesised by a fusion of the social elements and events that I have tried to chronicle in this post.
This generation are not lost but they are: egocentric, lazy, over confident, disrespectful, highly materialistic, undisciplined, confrontational and violent, permissive and uncaring.
They have no work ethic, yet they desire the material things that require wages to be earned and saved. And when the opportunity arises, they will use violence and break the law to acquire their objects of desire.
Before the 1980s and Thatcherism, these kids would have been swept up by the steelworks and shipyards as riggers and labourers. The brighter ones would have been offered apprenticeships wherein they would learn a trade, earn a wage and go to college on a day release basis. And at the same time, their older, wiser colleagues would knock any apathy or badness out of them. They would gain a trade, wage to support a future family along with self respect and respect for others. And they would pass these attributes and attitudes on to their offspring.
This no longer happens. Those times are gone and cannot be re-claimed. And I genuinely fear the birth of the children borne of today's children.
How repugnant, how dangerous will they be?
How repugnant, how dangerous will they be?
On par with the off-spring of bankers probably
This generation are not lost but they are: egocentric, lazy, over confident, disrespectful, highly materialistic, undisciplined, confrontational and violent, permissive and uncaring.
Congratulations Derek you are now officially old as you are slagging of young people in much the same way the older generation viewed us with say rave culture or Yuppies.
People have always said the next generation was as you describe.
Time does not stand still even if your outlook does
cheer up goth 🙂 there's still some nice kids out there.
What is there to say but I struggle with long sentences?
It's not as good as 'we didn't start the fire' by Billy Joel. Not nearly as catchy.
yup every single child in this country took part in the riots we are all doomed
or was it actually just a tiny minority of the kids that live in some crappy areas
These STWers are not lost but they are: egocentric, lazy, over confident, disrespectful, highly materialistic, undisciplined, confrontational and violent, permissive and uncaring.
Hmm so depressing
I gave up at
Rather than articulate a verbose piece of social prose
I'm not reading all that! can someone summarise it, with bullet points?
I aint reading all that, can someone summarise into a sentance.
Old man is scared
Derek. I won't take the piss as its nice to see someone attempting to think about the issues.
One of the big issues is that people have been indoctrinated to believe their value is only measured in material possessions. Add to that the lack of opportunities for some to earn the money to buy possessions and you increase alienation and disenchantment. effectively these people ar told they are worthless
I very much doubt corporal punishment in schools did any good at all
I aint reading all that, can someone summarise into a sentance.
The world evolved; some developments were better than others.
I'm not reading all that! can someone summarise it, with bullet points?
[list][*]Thatcha'[/*]
[*]Grand Theft Auto (the game)[/*]
[*]Rap Music[/*][/list]
I gave up atRather than articulate a verbose piece of social prose
Christ - I wish I had 😆
"A stark class divide is seen on a scale hitherto unknown." - Are you sure about this? Lets take Richard Arkwright as an example. Are you suggesting that there was no divide between him and his mill workers? Or the Scots that were displaced from their small holdings by the land owners? Shipping companies and the slaves transported to the New World?
i disagree with TJ, and i must be right cos i own more tvs and mobile phones than him.
if you took notice of proper branding TJ then you'd be as good as me. but you dont so i'm a better person.
EDIT - kinda condescending there TJ... i'm never like that cos i've got some branded pimping sneakers on my feetz
TJ + 1... you've gotta respect someone taking the time to work through and write out that full thought process (even if you don't necessarily agree with it all!)
Derek. I won't take the piss as its nice to see someone attempting to think about the issues.
Why not pat him on the head while you're at it?
The world evolved
Seriously?
Sorry, IGMC.
Derek thanks for pointing out your political persuasion. Do you want to start again from a more open minded, non opinionated view point?
Besides which what has happened in the past is irrelevant its what happens in the future that is important.
Personally I think the human race is destructive in everything it does, its in our nature.
it did tj remember those nice fellas the teddy boys and knife crime. What about those playful gatherings between mods and rockers ah times were sure nicer back then
Shut up and dance.
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I can't help but notice how things have been in decline pretty much from the second [s]Damian[/s] Hora was born
Coincidence? I think not.
New Labour came into power in 1997. This one incorrect fact has unfortunately undermined the faith I have in your other points.
But yes, I blame the Girlie Show too.
Derek thanks for pointing out your political persuasion
FD - I am so apolitical I hereby ask you to tell me where you think I sit. Seriously!
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😥
personally.... and you know i'm right, i'm always right so there's no point arguing with me....
the trouble started when that god awful swagger jagger thing got to the number1 slot in the pop charts. she's of the right demographic and fashion sense and the track makes me want to riot... so imagine how it must be effected the innocent and fragile minds of her target demographic?!?!
I agree with much of what you say there derek_starship, in fact there's very little I disagree with. In answer to your question, I think no one really knows, but I guess we will eventually find out - there aren't any signs which suggests that we intend to change the direction that society is going in.
Although of course it is perfectly possible that a change of direction will be forced upon us due to events. But I am generally very pessimistic. I suspect that recent events will probably strengthen the government - serious social unrest generally benefits the governing party in a parliamentary democracy - as people rally behind it, which will undoubtedly lead to more of the same. I expect Britain to continue to go down the pan for some years to come.
For someone who usually starts threads along the lines of 'look at the tits on this...' I'm impressed. Unless you've 'borrowed' that from somewhere?
sorry if that came over as patronising - not my intent
ouorkidsam - I know what you mean!
I promise that I plagerised NONE of my enormous post!
I understand your suspicions given my previous threads such as "Anal bleaching - Domestos or home brand?"
🙂 i forgive you, now bow down to me for i own an iPod
I blame Al Capone, The Krays, Elvis, Cliff Richards, pirate radio, the invention of the printing press and the Charleston.
2 Timothy 31 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
A certain [url=
Turner song[/url] illustrates some of it quite nicely.
Probably NSFW unless you've got headphones/an understanding boss. Contains a small amount of swearyness.
and remember to plug your bars
I think todays youth will be sucked so far into online gaming and social networking that their minds will coalesce to the point that they evolve into one all consuming consciousness floating in another dimension beyond space and time with no need for food or materialistic possesions. one conciousness floating together, forever in peace. and then the drugs will wear off.
In response to the predictable tag : [i]"Thatcher gets blame once again "[/i] how come I so often hear how Thatcher dramatically changed Britain, and how we should all be eternally "grateful" to her, and yet apparently nothing that we have today, has anything to do with her.
Will someone explain the logic behind that to me please ?
and remember to plug your bars
...and remember to bleach your eyes after seeing why you should plug your bars 😉
I'm not reading all that! can someone summarise it, with bullet points?
* We're all ****ed!
The Great She-Elephant surrendered power over twenty years ago, more than enough time for her replacements to screw everything up.
So we've inherited nothing from Thatcher Woppit ?
What a waste of time she turned out to be.
philconsequence - Memberpersonally.... and you know i'm right, i'm always right so there's no point arguing with me....
the trouble started when that god awful swagger jagger thing got to the number1 slot in the pop charts. she's of the right demographic and fashion sense and the track makes me want to riot... so imagine how it must be effected the innocent and fragile minds of her target demographic?!?!
Amen to that.
And btw Woppit, she didn't "surrendered power" ....the Tories sacked her.
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Please tell me the OP copy'n'pasted that rather than typed it out himself?
Much as the events of the last few nights is a worry better that than a couple of world wars.
Put 60 million people on a little island and simmer for a bit and every so often things will bubble over.
We live in a society that is much improved over the ones that went before it, people love a moan though.
The yuppie is born. A stark class divide is seen on a scale hitherto unknown.
I reckon that the class divide pre WW2 was far greater than it ever has been post WW2.
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Frequent heavy drinking becomes socially acceptable, almost a national hobby. Alcopops and other novelty alcoholic drinks flood the market. Alcohol is no longer a taboo. Booze-fuelled fights on the streets of towns and cities are more commonplace and more frequently involve drunken females.
Nah, drunkenness both pre and post Industrial Revolution was far greater than it's ever been before or since, especially amongst women.
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TV becomes generally more risque with the advent of shows like the The Word and The Girlie Show.
TV has become less sexually explicit over the last 30 years.
Honest. Porn may be more freely available, but mainstream TV is more prurient than it was in the 70's.
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Shows like Pop Idol and X-Factor promote the notion that fame and wealth are within the grasp of all. Kids dream of becoming a pop star or a premiership footballer.
New Faces? Opportunity Knocks? All you need is a silly haircut, a vent act and a bit of blue and you too could be the new Roger De Courcey.
Violent and overtly sexual films, music and video games proliferate.
Unlike those nice, peaceful westerns and war films that have dominated cinema since it's invention?
British industry continues to decline with the loss of major employers such as GEC, Ferranti, BREL.
Credit crunch - small and medium businesses fail in their hundreds. Mortgages are harder to qualify for and minimum deposits on home loans increase and are out of the reach of many.
More job losses, pay cuts and pay freezes put pressure on government and families.
General Strike? The Depression?
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Gangsta rap with its vivid descriptions of inner ghetto depravation, cop killing and gang violence becomes more popular. Its imagery is shown on satellite and cable music channels.
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Celebrity magazines OK, Hello etc. and reallity shows such as Cribz beam images of grandiose properties, supercars, haute-couture, decadent jewellery and high-end home electronics into the living rooms of low income families.
Tatler? Horse and Hound? Almost any Hollywood rom com from the 20's onward?
Video games such as Grand Theft Auto rise in popularity with players of similarly violent games getting younger and younger.
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Social networks like Facebook enable the more efficient disemination of plans and thoughts.
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Strange, I've always thought surrendering was what you did when defeated - in this case by getting stabbed in the back by the British establishment.
It didn't take long for the usual flabby consensus to take over again and get us back to good old Handout Britain.
in this case by getting stabbed in the back by the British establishment.
Woppit now describes the Tory Party as "the British establishment" 😀
applauds rusty spanner
aye, good work Mr Spanner!
[i]This generation are not lost but they are: egocentric, lazy, over confident, disrespectful, highly materialistic, undisciplined, confrontational and violent, permissive and uncaring[/i]
This doesn't describe anyone I know. OK, there are lazy people I know, and I've got friends who drink a lot, and buy lots of clothes, but I'd guess that's true of anyone. Most of my friends are in college or uni or working.
I'll bet my grand-dad probably said that about my dad's generation.
The 'youth' I know personally are hard working, considerate, caring, non-violent, and disciplined.
aye, good work Mr Spanner!
Some people are easily pleased.
I wasn't referring to all young people. I know there are loads of considerate and intelligent kids. I referred solely to those we saw "rioting." Rusty you little bugger you ! I'll come back at ya when I've time. Pft!!
Is it time for all good men to come together and make a stand?
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953).
Hello Derek, hope all is quiet in your part of the world tonight.
Not having a go mate, just trying to point out, as others have, that the issues you highlight are timeless. One thing you can't fight is human nature.
Sometimes there just aren't any quick fixes or easy answers.
I despise the parasites who think they can take without giving just as much as anyone and I agree with many of your points.
You're the same age as me. We both grew up watching the post war dream of full employment, universal opportunity, decent education, access to legal help and the finest health system this country has ever seen systematically destroyed by nasty, evil, cynical bastards who don't believe that such things improve our society for the ultimate benefit of all of us.
No wonder we're bitter.
However, I believe that by demonising certain elements of our society we play into the hands of those who seek to disenfranchise us, who wish to take away the power and hope that our parents generation sacrificed so much for.
No offence intended in any of my posts.
Pete.
Hey Pete. Apart from the same age bit I wasn't offended or upset by your post. I thought it was an educated and humourous deconstruction of my post. I posted it only to generate that kind of response. I had a few minutes to spare and thought I'd post something a little more "educated" than my usual inane and puerile nonsense! Thanks for the bite!
Edit: overuse of the noun/verb POST!
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which one's you Pete?
😉
You dissin' ma posse, punk?
We'll pop a cap gun in your ass, raid your fridge and steal your Beanos.
There WILL be itching powder.
good quote that 5thElefant.
Woppit now describes a faction of the Tory Party as part of "the British establishment"
Fixed that for you, Bernie.
“It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society, people allowed to think that the world owes them something, that their rights outweigh their responsibilities, and that their actions do not have consequences.”
Call me Dave, talking about bankers/MP's/looters/police/journalists? Who knows...
My thoughts, i can't but help feeling that certain elements of society have a feeling of being owed, in the last few years their has hardly been a week go by without the press being full of stories about how we all have to tighten our belts but bankers continue to get their bonuses and MP's with their dodgy expenses, and the role models for alot of these people are footballers on more money a week than they'll ever see in 10 years and Rn'B/hip hop/urban music artists whose public image is all about materialistic gain.
I up until this week worked in one of the areas affected by the looting and rioting and to speak to some of the youths you do get a sense of "I'm owed, i'll just take it off someone who has more than me". That coupled with a complete lack of fear for the justice system and the consequences of their actions and the sudden realisation that in sufficient numbers they can over whelm the police led to what we have seen in the last few days.
I agree Bazz.
If fifty groups of six kids broke into fifty different properties simulataneously, what would the police do?
They are fearless, feel invincible and probably ingest a chemical before they go about their criminal acts.
ban alcohol and legalise cannabis. dominos will have to hire 99% of the unemployed and no kid would be bothered to go lootin, they'd also stop caring about what trainers they wear