[Closed] Dealing with racism in the workplace?

Personal choice.

Me, I always challenge it. It can be tricky to avoid coming across as antagonistic or as a pompous arse, but it can be done.

Challenge the statements / attitudes, not the people e.g.

"I think that statement is ...[racist]"

not

"You are ..[a racist]"

Asking questions is less antagonistic (done properly) than making statements, it also can (should) encourage the person to think about what they've said.

Remember what you want to achieve: if you set out to make someone feel bad, or to make yourself seem virtuous, it won't end well, if you set out to make people question their prejudices or how they express them, this is more likely to have a positive outcome.

i find a simple "my wife is black" or "how do you get 3 blondes onto a bar stool?" is enough to move people away from the casual racism

A nice bit of hypocrisy in the two example statements there." Why don't they move?" And "how dare they move [i]here[/i]?". Could point that out? Especially if it means you start off an inter-racist argument!

I have to put with people going on about stuff I don't agree with where I work, I tend to let it go over my head...

edlong
One of the most sensible posts on this type of subject that I've seen on this forum. Well said.

Thanks Ed thats good advice! it just seems wrong to just shut up and not challenge them, it's always the loudmouths that dominate.

A nice bit of hypocrisy in the two example statements there." Why don't they move?" And "how dare they move here?". Could point that out? Especially if it means you start off an inter-racist argument!

Lol well yes hadn't seen that but they were just examples but will remember that

One of the most sensible posts on this type of subject that I've seen on this forum. Well said.

Well that's killed the discussion off. Coming round here with your common sense answers, that's not the STW way! 🙂

unfortunately it is an occupational hazzard when working with the unwashed, Sun-reading working classes.

Hope that didn't sound too pompous... ;o)

Just be very careful what you say, in my experience. Often it's not 'the unwashed' as you call them, who are the worst offenders .....

+1 on what Edlong advised!

unfortunately it is an occupational hazzard when working with the unwashed, Sun-reading working classes.

Hope that didn't sound too pompous... ;o)

Lol I know you jest, but actually the office types can be just as bad!

Apologies, what I meant was that you should own their shoes and wee in some Bombers.

Anything else would be tantamount to condoning the rise of the Nazis.

i've found people are much more comfortable airing their racist views when in the company of people that look like them. why not hire somebody from a different ethnic background or as a cheaper option, lifesize cardboard cut-outs.

"Perhaps there's a good reason why they can't move."

freeagent - Member
unfortunately it is an occupational hazzard when working with the unwashed, Sun-reading working classes.

Hope that didn't sound too pompous... ;o)

It sounds just as prejudice as the people the Op wants to know how to tackle. 🙄

"... taking our jobs".

"Oh. When are you leaving, then?"

Lol I know you jest, but actually the office types can be just as bad!

Indeed. The worst offender I've ever encountered was a middle manager who was also a Special. A right nasty piece of work. Eventually sacked on the spot for openly using the 'N' word, to a black guy we had freelancing with us, in front of everybody. Nice!

why not hire somebody from a different ethnic background or as a cheaper option, lifesize cardboard cut-outs.

Or 'black up' yourself? maybe accessorising by a comedy Lenny Henry/Delbert Wilkins style big rasta hat and dreadlocks. Or say you've converted to Islam, and start coming into work in bulky body warmer with wires sticking out of the pockets

Straight to HR

I couldn't work with people like that so if you [b]have[/b] to my advice would be to leave well alone. People like that are filled with hatred, hatred that can just as easily be redirected at you and is deep seated enough to not easily be challenged.

I pulled up a bloke once who was banging on about all the f'ing Poles in Reading. I pointed out that the Poles made up a large contingent of the RAF in WW2 and they were a noble and much admired people, he made it his life's work to piss me off after that.

live 10 miles from a water hole why dont they bloomin well move closer!"

Ask them why they don't live nearer work .

Their remark strikes me as ignorant but not specifically racist. Although may be motivated by a racist mentality

so- how do you get 3 blondes onto a bar stool?

turn it upside down

Straight to HR

My work place is shopfloor warehouse in Birmingham. I would say there is a 50/50 split of blacks and whites and around 80% are under 45. Racism is not a problem. The only comments that you would class a racist tend to come from the "older" generation. I suppose it was how they were brought up. My home town which is ten miles from Birmingham is mainly populated by whites and the attitudes towards our foreign cousins is very different. I think it depends on the area and the age group. IMO.

live 10 miles from a water hole why dont they bloomin well move closer!"
Ask them why they don't live nearer work .

Their remark strikes me as ignorant but not specifically racist. Although may be motivated by a racist mentality

No it was just a repeatable from a conversation today that made me think, there are lots worse than that but i dont want a ban!

It's not even the 'unwashed' or office workers who are at it.

Here's 2 examples;

A friends parents decided to moved back to Ghana. A deciding factor was that they didn't like the type of people who were moving into East Ham.

I was in our local chippy and started chatting to a ****stani bloke in the line, he started complaining how the area was going downhill as there were loads of Eastern Europeans moving in to the area. "They're verys noisy, they drink a lot, there's always trouble and there's loads of them who live in one house. He was considering selling up and moving to a Wanstead where his brother was as it was a nicer area.

Or 'black up' yourself? maybe accessorising by a comedy Lenny Henry/Delbert Wilkins style big rasta hat and dreadlocks. Or say you've converted to Islam, and start coming into work in bulky body warmer with wires sticking out of the pockets

Liking this.......

I was in our local chippy and started chatting to a ****stani bloke in the line, he started complaining how the area was going downhill as there were loads of Eastern Europeans moving in to the area. "They're verys noisy, they drink a lot, there's always trouble and there's loads of them who live in one house. He was considering selling up and moving to a Wanstead where his brother was as it was a nicer area.

Hypocrisy like that always makes chuckle 😆

unless the ****stani bloke in the chippy queue drinks a lot, is very noisy and lives in a house with loads of people i dont see how its hypocritical....

Lots of people decide for whatever reason theyu dont like someone, using colour is easy as they cant change the colour of birth.

We have a couple of very narrow minded folk in the office too. Very much "us" and "them"....

Sadly, I don't think they'll ever change.

Always challenge is my view. How politely is your choice

Doesn't have to be specific philconsequence, I meant that the ****stani bloke was, or his forefathers at least were immigrants at some stage, and people may have well been making the same comments about him in the chippy queue how ever many years ago.

It'd be like you complaining about immigrants then emigrating essentially turning you into the immigrant you wanted to get away from.

If someone drinks too much, is loud and have a house full, what does it matter that they are immigrants...Or is certain racism OK?

I think the racism comes in when you encounter a house full of loud pissheads and you assume, without further evidence, that they must be Eastern Europeans because of their loud pissheadedness. Or, when you meet some Eastern Europeans that you assume, only because of their Eastern Europeanness, that they must be loud pissheads living 10 to a room.

Surely the ****stani guy was being xenophobic rather than racist? Seeing as "Polish" is a nationality, not a race.

i dont believe racism is ok at all. i was just reading into your comment as being a 'lol at the immigrant laughing at the immigrants'ncomment. my interpretation is now confusing me as your reply to me suggests your still viewing the ****stani chap as an immigrant despite him possibly being born here... but then you go on to read into my comment as suggesting that certain types of racism are ok if the people are a niusance suggesting you're reading my comment and thinking 'oh the racist idiot' and proceed to pull me up on it.

hoping it's just us both pulling each other up on perceived racism.

That's a different debate. If you look into it, you'll find not much that we categorise as "race" has any rigorous scientific basis. Think about it, it's all stuff that is very visual, skin pigmentation, facial structure. There's shed loads of genetic variations between humans that are at least as, if not more significant than these but as they're not immediately evident on getting first sight of someone, it's the skin stuff we define "race" by.

Is a brown skinned black haired person more or less similar to a brunette, white skinned person, than a black haired, white person?

How about genetic predisposition to, say, a certain cancer or to a stroke, or dementia? (and if the insurance industry gets their way with advances in genetic screening, that definition is going to be more relevant in the future to your chances of getting a decent job than the pigmentation of your skin)

EDIT: In reply to joao3v16 two comments up from this

I am genuinely quite astonished at the OP's comments - I thought this sort of nonsense had gone now, reading it and some of the comments above is really depressing.

Whatever else I may think of my job, it makes me realise that I am lucky in this respect and for the diversity of my colleagues - out of about 21 of us, I reckon off the top of my head 7 were born in the UK. I have generally worked with a variety of backgrounds and think that's fantastic. I just cannot believe people think like the above, and would even think to say anything like that even if they did. Quite rightly, if I spoke like that I would be out of the door in seconds.

phil - i said the ****stani bloke or his forefathers, either of them at some point were immgrants...I have stated this clearly in the post you are commenting on. I didn't think "racist idiot" btw.

My point is is that if racism is bad, then it is all bad.

Some people do seem to think that selective racism is OK, which it obviously isn't.

I am genuinely quite astonished at the OP's comments - I thought this sort of nonsense had gone now, reading it and some of the comments above is really depressing.

No not gone in the slightest, some people will always be racist IME, it's just their nature, economic recessions dont help either.

I feel it would help if the workforce was more of a mix, maybe thats the problem

We are still allowed to bully ginger people though, aren't we?

Binners Oh yes sure, they dont have the same feelings as normal people.

Carry on..... 🙂

http://gingerfightback.com

I took a Summer job with Sunderland council whilst a student here. I've always worked in shop floor environments and considered myself quite hardened to extreme (and extremely stupid) racist pronouncements. But these boys took it to a whole new level. Right across the generations.

The older guys who had worked in the shipyards were the worst, but the young lads were almost as bad. One black guy got daily, in-your-face, racist abuse and bullying. He gave as good as he got and flatly refused to go down any formal complaint routes.

Had a storming argument with one of the young guys after he spat at a Chinese student lass who was wearing a Union Jack t-shirt! Like the bloody dark ages 🙁

binners - Member
We are still allowed to bully ginger people though, aren't we?

Prime example

Had a storming argument with one of the young guys after he spat at a Chinese student lass who was wearing a Union Jack t-shirt!

Nothing so extreme here and i dont think there ever would be, but I want to make them see its the same thing doing it verbally

ononeorange - Member
I am genuinely quite astonished at the OP's comments - I thought this sort of nonsense had gone now, reading it and some of the comments above is really depressing.

I agree with the depressing bit but astonished by the astonished bit. All societies/groups discriminate against others. They have done in history, in the present, and will do in the future. People find different excuses for discrimination and the extent it becomes an XXX-ism is largely a matter of where boundaries are drawn. That is not an excuse by any means, rather an explanation of why I am surprised by your surprise. I have worked overseas and have been discriminated against due to my race/skin colour. In comparison, I think that in the UK we have come a long way (in absolute and relative terms) in addressing the issue, while never eradicating it.

I think edlong got it spot on right from the start. No need to inflame or stoop to their low levels. Good examples of simple, polite ways of addressing racism from the outset given in his post.

When I was an IT engineer I visited all manner of strange workplaces, I remember once visiting the warehouse operation of a large national food distribution company and witnessed first hand some really shocking racism directed at one of the operatives there. Even more shocking was the apparent expectation that I should 'join in', as if it was completely normal. It clearly was totally normal to these people.

I'd never seen anything like it before, nor have I since to be honest, and I get around a bit. It was an education!

I have no experience of this racisim growing up in Glasgow as I did..

when i was in my 20s i used to go out with an indian girl who had been adopted (she was an orphan) by a white single mum from the west of scotland.
she was absolutely lovely.
now in my 40s, and a number of times, working in several places i have heard the '****' word used in an offensive way, what i do is point out to the offender that i used to go out with an indian girl and tell them how nice she was.
without fail it stops them dead in their tracks.

joao3v16 - Member
Surely the ****stani guy was being xenophobic rather than racist? Seeing as "Polish" is a nationality, not a race.

I did say you can't say that as that's what everyone probably thought about us when our lot moved here. But he said 'no that was different, we didn't smash up the houses, fight outside and have the police around all the time".

Personally I don't know if it was racism or not, but I did know it was wrong. The shoe was well and truly on the other foot.

BTW I think he referring to the noise and damage rather than it being about race. Unlike my Ghanian friends parents, they left the country because they didn't like the 'immigrants' at all. 😯

I got turned down for an interview once at a local company in Rochdale, I rung them in the summer holidays to see if there was any work going, the woman said yes there was asked my name, I told her and she quickly changed her tone and said there wasn't.

Before putting the phone down she commented on how funny it was hearing an asian with a Rochdale accent before she put the phone down. Imagined if I'd have got an interview, awkward or what?

 

I got turned down for an interview once at a local company in Rochdale, I rung them in the summer holidays to see if there was any work going, the woman said yes there was asked my name, I told her and she quickly changed her tone and said there wasn't.

Shame you didn't pursue it, they could (should) have been prosecuted. Still happening, there was a guy in the news a week or two ago, put his CV in for a job with, IIRC Virgin Atlantic (certainly some part of the Virgin empire), no response. Submitted exactly the same CV with a less "black" name and they rang him repeatedly to try and arrange an interview.

See also, access to services: trying to rent a flat with an "Asian" sounding name....

I recently finished working on a job that on a daily basis i heard black people called nigers , Indians called ****'s, Asian's always refered to a chinks.This i might add not just by English workers ,alot from eastern Europeans. Makes me feel more sad than angry. I might not have the best education but i was tought never to judge by the colour of skin or a persons faith. It is sad that in this day and age people still judge by colour. A shop keeper i was talking to not so long ago was having a right old rant about muslims wanting to build a mosque in his area, the shop keeper was a Hindu. Just goes to show there are dicks in every walk of life. Makes me worry for my kids sometimes. 🙁

I'm quite fortunate in that I set the tone in my company. I've told all senior managers that I will fire them on the spot if they are ever racist, and expect them to do the same. God help them if I find out they're covering for someone...

I'm quite fortunate in that I set the tone in my company. I've told all senior managers that I will fire them on the spot if they are ever racist, and expect them to do the same. God help them if I find out they're covering for someone...

From someone who aspires to joint the ranks of junior management. How would you deal with a person or persons who have deliberately played the "race card" either to gain an advantage over another employee in say the promotional ladder; or have been caught telling a lie in the shape of adding a racist element to a situation to get another member of staff into potentially very serious trouble ?

D.

Patriotpro's racist ****stani guy isn't being hypocritical. That's not a discussion about race and racism, it's about the meaning of the word "hypocritical"!

The strange thing is that most racists don't think they are racist. Maybe, straight talkers, maybe non-PC, maybe thinking thatbthey cannot be because they mean no harm. It's all about the intent they say. All kinds of strange excuses you here.

With apologies to Yes Minister, it's one of those irregular verbs:

I am a patriot
You are a nationalist
He is a racist

Thank God we have the internet otherwise if this discussion happened in person quite a few who've posted would be participating in mutual masturbation by now. Yuk. I much prefer STW when people disagree with each other.

deleted

Edit: Too tired and ill for the Internet. Have fun folks.

I am genuinely quite astonished at the OP's comments - I thought this sort of nonsense had gone now, reading it and some of the comments above is really depressing.

Sadly it hasn't. I've spent all my life, nearly, in the building trade and it's rife there. Lots of racist 'jokes' which make me squirm, but every time I say, "I don't find that sort of thing funny" or similar. You can't just let it drop IMO.

humour is undoubtedly the most effective way to tackle 'racism' if possible. Trouble is you sometimes find that its too far gone to use that, so less subtle methods are needed.
All work places have their own social dynamic, when bullies/racists have become emboldened , and feel free to act overtly the problem is serious.
Challenge it though you must, even at the risk of being isolated, you can hold your head high, the majority of people want a quite life so tend to not get 'involved' , but unless you are working in a BNP/EDL cell you will have support.

Initially it may feel you against the world im there, but you know that you have justice, equality and liberty on your side-- be brave , the employer may come down on you as the troublemaker, try and keep a log, notes etc, i take it its not a unionised place-- if you are not already,you should join a trade union that is relevant and seek help and advice from them---unless you are unlucky , most rank and file trade unionists are progressive folk, who are used to standing above the parapet.

Good luck in your fight, it may seem daunting, but you will be empowered.

enfht - Member
Thank God we have the internet otherwise if this discussion happened in person quite a few who've posted would be participating in mutual masturbation by now. Yuk. I much prefer STW when people disagree with each other.

POSTED 15 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

They'd have cap ends like blood oranges !

Casual racism (bizarre term) is alive and well in the sticks. Group of couples we know in the village blacked up to go to a party, they could not understand why Mrs Cat & I were appalled at the idea and were refusing to entertain joining in "for a laugh". Sometimes drinking in a couple of the local pubs can be like being trapped inside Bernard Manning's head.

Sadly it hasn't. I've spent all my life, nearly, in the building trade and it's rife there. Lots of racist 'jokes' which make me squirm, but every time I say, "I don't find that sort of thing funny" or similar. You can't just let it drop IMO.

same as , but always take them on, they are mostly just ignorant, not malicious --the real baddies are few and far between, but casual racism if unchecked allows it to become normalised, which is a very dangerous situation. Thankfully, i do beleive we are getting better in this country, despite pockets and enclaves of ignorance and prejudice remaining-- they are in the decline , but vigilance is always needed !

Others on here may have experienced this but I am mixed race but look white to most - that brings about some interesting situations! The speed at which some people try and backpedal can be very high...

Davesport, actually a very difficult subject, however deliberately telling lies if any kind to get another employee in trouble is, in my book gross misconduct. However, the problem you have is how to prove it one way or the other. Witnesses? Likely hood? Character? Very hard to prove. However, it should be equally hard to prove that racism happened without the witnesses etc.
if the decision has already been made, then what evidence was used? If yoire outside of the appeal window ( normally 5 days) then it gets Ben more tricky and in effect, it's a grievance against the person who lied.

Edit: you said caught already, then it should be a lot easier. Playing the race card to gain an advantage is racism...

How would you deal with a person or persons who have deliberately played the "race card" either to gain an advantage over another employee in say the promotional ladder;

take the person accused of racism out one night and get them p1ssed, and then make some casually racist remarks and see how they react. If they really are racist they will find it hard to hid it when in that state.

or be subversive and screw with their minds; start with convincing stories that "muslims" ( i know not a race but the casual racist is not so discerning) have been breeding and letting into the food chain in the UK, special pigs with female hormones from birth control pills. It won't effect them because they don't eat pig. It's all a cunning plan to make burly english tradesman grow tits, get smaller willies and become so weak that they can't satisfy their women folk or do manual work. The first stage of the subtle invasion will be underway!

so you've ruined their fry ups and english breakfast, next start on ciggies...You saw something on newsnight that said that every time a tabacco leaf is picked, the DNA from the pickers hand in transferred to the leaf and eventually into the lung of the smoker! Studies have proven that all white smokers are now at least 2% genetically "****"

you can play with this stuff for ages...I had once racist bloke I worked with so worried that he had basically become a vegan, non smoking, recluse, convinced that he was slowly turning into a genetic "ethnic" with boobs to come. He did stop being such a vocally racist tit as well which was nice...

Tazzy actually you may be right they would mess with our bacon wouldn't they, makes a lot of sense.............

Starting this thread has reminded me when i was a junior at a photo lab in 1981, i remember the manager at the time going around the place openly asking people if they minded working with a black man, as one had applied for the job and was well qualified, someone must of objected as he didn't get the job!

Maybe we have moved on, albeit a little.

it disappoints me to hear such attitudes still exist but to be honest it doesn't surprise me. whether its casual/covert/overt racism, a great deal of it is due to ignorance and a distinct lack of knowledge. these attitudes are passed down from generation to generation and seen as acceptable as it is never challenged.
everideit - i know the feeling regarding the job in rochdale...reminds me of a similar job i applied for a few miles down the road...they interviewed me and gave me a tour of the factory before offering me the job...they then rang me later that day to rescind the job offer on some cockahoop excuse that working there would not be conducive to my health...
trouble is racism is now being mixed with religious hatred due to recent events and all this is doing is fueling the fires and giving groups such as the bnp and edl more fodder to feed to those who wish to buy into their attitudes.

it disappoints me to hear such attitudes still exist but to be honest it doesn't surprise me. whether its casual/covert/overt racism, a great deal of it is due to ignorance and a distinct lack of knowledge. these attitudes are passed down from generation to generation and seen as acceptable as it is never challenged.
everideit - i know the feeling regarding the job in rochdale...reminds me of a similar job i applied for a few miles down the road...they interviewed me and gave me a tour of the factory before offering me the job...they then rang me later that day to rescind the job offer on some cockahoop excuse that working there would not be conducive to my health...
trouble is racism is now being mixed with religious hatred due to recent events and all this is doing is fueling the fires and giving groups such as the bnp and edl more fodder to feed to those who wish to buy into their attitudes.

whoops - double post!!

joao3v16 - Member
Surely the ****stani guy was being xenophobic rather than racist? Seeing as "Polish" is a nationality, not a race.

Where was Polish mentioned in the text I quoted? It was Eastern Europeans wasn't it?

 

The job center were trying to send a black gentleman (that phrase seems to have added meaning now with Louis Lester on that tv show...) to work where my wife worked.

They objected and he didn't get the job.

But that was because it was a bridal shop!

NSFW!!

The job center were trying to send a black gentleman (that phrase seems to have added meaning now with Louis Lester on that tv show...) to work where my wife worked.

They objected and he didn't get the job.

But that was because it was a bridal shop!

And they got away with that??