[Closed] D-Day through German eyes

I lived on a D-Day beach for a while. Juno.

While I was there, I got to know a lot of different folks, we became friends. A few of us, in a mixed group of British, French and German, went on a tour of the cemeteries. We went to British, German, Canadian, American, all of them. There were moments that I will never forget in that. Moments when humans put aside the past.

Go to the beaches. Go and see it. Please.

It goes to show that misinformation is nothing new really :(.

And the cemeteries. The time has to be right but they need to be seen

I (sort of) read a book about the dambusters raids from a German point of view - that was interesting. the winners write the history. "The forsaken army" about a German soldiers experiences at Stalingrad was also sobering reading

Check the 1 star reviews on this book. There's some suspicion that these interviews are not entirely legit.

I think there was actually a thread on STW about this very book a few years back.

Sorry.

EDIT, yes, here's one of them, but I think there were more:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/non-fiction-d-day-history-book-seems-fake-should-i-be-annoyed

There's some suspicion that these interviews are not entirely legit.

Given that the interviewer was a German propagandist, that wouldn't surprise me. [Edit - or perhaps the whole thing is a fake]. I'll read the reviews.

Either way, I enjoyed it.

Tigers in the mud is pretty interesting for a German point of view too. Mainly based on the eastern front.

I (sort of) read a book about the dambusters raids from a German point of view - that was interesting. the winners write the history.

My mum's uncle was in a work camp in the Ruhr that got hit by the floor after the dams. He survived as he was in the toilet. Not all of his fellow forced workers (all French) were as lucky. Despite this and half of the city being bombed flat by the Americans to get the railway bridge (it's still there), he never had any bitterness towards the allies.

There's lots of "from the view of the Germans" books on Amazon. Some are dull. Some are written by unrepentant Nazis and some are fascinating. The diaries tend to be a more accurate representation even if a lot are pretty tedious.

I have both books in the series.

With regard to the interviews, they were done in the 1950's, so understandable that they were both lucid and rather well remembered.

It is interesting to see how many times "united europe" or some variation on the theme is brought up, such as "defending europe from the Anglo-saxons".

Totally fake.

I've read the first one and it's a terrific read but they're fiction, the whole back story about them being real accounts collected by the guy's dad is made up. If you read a few books about D-Day you can pretty much identify his sources, plus there are multiple references to stuff from 'Signal', which was clearly also a source for the Author.

If you're interested in D-Day just go to BBC History Magazine website and listen to a few of the D-Day related podcasts all of which are by serious Historians.

"defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism" is this what revisionism means.

Lived near Sainte Mere Eglise and the locals (around in the 1940's) seemed not to have got the "United Europe" message from there German occupiers.

I shall look out for the book though and perhaps learn something.

is the guy that wrote the book called Leo Kessler?

"defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism" is this what revisionism means.

Search google for "nazi propoganda europa" and you will find that it was quite common for the nazis to claim that they were defending europe against bad people on either side.

"defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism"

It seems some Germans did think that to some degree:

http://www.historyextra.com/podcast/germany%E2%80%99s-world-war-two

I vaguely remember seeing an account of D-Day from a German soldier who'd estimated that he'd fired more than 10000 rounds..

"defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism"

It seems some Germans did think that to some degree:

Course they did! What's the alternative? "We're the baddies, we've got to stop the good guys winning?"

Course they did!

Yup, so it's not revisionism, it's what they really thought.

The only book I've read that makes sense of war is the Bhagavad Gita.

"We're the baddies, we've got to stop the good guys winning?"

It must have been obvious they were the baddies though? They had skulls on their helmets...

the Germans genuinely believed that they were trying to defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism

Angela Merkel and Brexit spring to mind

Perfidious Albion.

Thanks outofbreath, fascinating podcast

Angela Merkel and Brexit spring to mind

didn't Jean-Claude Juncker's ancestors have something to do with the manufacture of the Stuka dive-bomber?

That mitchell and webb sketch has got to be one the most profound things they've ever done.

Thanks outofbreath, fascinating podcast

I always wondered why Germany carried on when they were sure to lose, and why 'normal' people went along with something so unpleasent and so mad and then stuck with it even when all was obviously lost. Was quite a suprised to find that there are enough records from people involved in the big decisions and enough accounts from 'normal' people at the time to answer those questions to my satisfaction, if not definitively.

why 'normal' people went along with something so unpleasant and so mad

Is there an simple answer to this one?

I ask as when I was growing up in Leeds there was this old Serbian chap who I once got talking to. He said he was still haunted by what he had seen (and I suspect done) during the war on behalf of the Germans.

Is there an simple answer to this one?

Fairly simple. I think with an hours reading you could get enough insights to understand why Hitler wouldn't give up, why the Generals couldn't unseat him and how a bit of propaganda could play to pre-existing views to make the war seem like the Allies fault and surrender seem a bad idea.

Clearly any answer is going to be over simplistic and no apply to everyone, but I'm satisfied with the various answers as I understand them.

why 'normal' people went along with something so unpleasant and so mad

Any contemporary examples eh?

With the Red Army breathing down your necks you might as well go down fighting as you weren't going to get an easy ride either way.

why 'normal' people went along with something so unpleasant and so mad

Is there an simple answer to this one?

Nothing simple, I suspect. I remember seeing quoted somewhere, I think it was Rudolf Hess saying that the biggest issue (and also biggest advantage) in the German collective psyche in the build-up to war was obedience.

I think it was Rudolf Hess saying that the biggest issue (and also biggest advantage) in the German collective psyche in the build-up to war was obedience.

The fact places like Holland (no previous tradition of Anti-Semitism and a totally integrated Jewish population) deported 80pc of their Jewish population to Labour/Death camps supports 'obedience' as one of the factors. An effective civil service that were used to doing what they were asked is probably fairly easy to subvert especially if a just-about-credible cover story was used.

I lived on a D-Day beach for a while. Juno.

Not until you told us.

I have this on the kindle ready to read, shame to find out it's 'contentious'

It seemed that many of the Germans genuinely believed that they were trying to defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism.

Well to a large extent they were, problem is they started it.

I have this on the kindle ready to read, shame to find out it's 'contentious'

It's still a great read, I couldn't put it down even after I twigged it was fiction.

Currently reading 'Alone in Berlin' by Hans Fallada. It's a piece of, (seemingly, very well-informed) fiction about an elderly couple living in Berlin during the war years, who take it upon themselves to perpetrate (very modest) acts of resistance against the regime.

Not quite finished it yet, but it's ace. Really conveys how the system elevated the absolute worst in society and created an atmosphere of constant fear, in which you could be denounced at any moment by practically anyone, for any reason.

I think there's a movie adaptation coming out soon.

arrpee - Member

Currently reading 'Alone in Berlin' by Hans Fallada. It's a piece of, (seemingly, very well-informed) fiction about an elderly couple living in Berlin during the war years, who take it upon themselves to perpetrate (very modest) acts of resistance against the regime.

That's a good book. It's based on a true story, but I'm not sure how true to the actual story it really is.

the Germans genuinely believed that they were trying to defend a united Europe from the Allied imperialism and Bolshevik communism

Well, it's pretty much what happened, the only issue was the version of united Europe which they offered

problem is they started it.

Many Germans saw WW2 as the almost inevitable conclusion to what happened at the end of WW1 Same encirclement fears, bolshevism to the east, imperialism to the west. Hitler warning then that the old powers would declare war (which provoked by him obviously; they did) but at the same time willing to at least half believe the propaganda.

Honestly, listen to OOB's podcast if you're at all interested

Late last century we swapped houses several times with German familes for our holidays. In one therewas an early '1930s school atlas, showing the German view of Europe's power balance, with antagonistic powers on all sides: France, Russia, Britain and others. From a German perspective, it looked most scary - hence the reason for their re-armament.