[Closed] Creationist religious nutjob on R4 "One to One 9.30am"

The trouble with religion is that we are all going to some form of hell or other. Several religions condemn either believers of other religions, or the non religious to eternal damnation there, so that's where we'll all end up!

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church. Let alone met loads of new like minded friends within a very welcoming wider church/school community….

There's a lot of be said for taking part in social activities and groups. Humans are a tribal animal, so we feel better when in groups. Could it be the group that's making you happy, or is it the spirit of an all powerful being?

(For context: my wife is a Christian and goes to church. She's also a chaplain in a CofE primary school. I'm still not entirely sure what she [i]actually[/i] believes.)

Adultery doesn't usually go down well and neither does covetousness

lying about people

Perhaps Woppit, out of intrigue, they go and listen to the program itself*, understand its purpose, consider the mental state of the guy in question and realise that (without agreeing with the subject) that the OP's comments verge on the ridiculous.

*admittedly only got to 8mins through before I got a little tired of both the point, "what makes people persevere?" and the limited arguments that the guy in question was coming up with. Wrong in interpretation, most probably, nut case or deserving sanctioning under mental health acts, let's not get silly.

I could not be in more violent disagreement with creationists if I tried, but I wholeheartedly agree with Kenny Senior.

I'm with GeeTee on this^^

But not this...

No the more pernicious part is that in order to get the best education without having to pay for it, at least one parent has to subscribe to the school's associated church.

Because we didn't and don't but all our children go there - sometimes to my despair...

I'm with Mike - it's possibly as much about the sense of finding a 'tribe' to fit in with and belong too.

Rationalism is on the decline. Personally I think we're not encouraging children to explore the wonders of science and the natural world in the same way we used to. Kids don't connect with nature in the same way.

Re: dinosaurs dying out, they're still around, they just evolved into birds...

The smaller ones, yes.

Have the dinosaurs died out? When did that happen?

theft? murder?

adultery?

no days off?

respect your family?

no perjury?

no jealousy?

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.

There is probably a lot of evidence to prove that humans are social animals and getting together in orgainsed groups to chat and do good things makes us feel better.

If religion didn't exist people would still do this. Infact it would be better as it would be more inclusive without all the god stuff to get in the way.

Our country has a Christian past but as soon as the inclusion of religion in the fabric of our society, things like socuts/guides, playgroups, comunity groups is reduced the better.

Watching stuff on TV is no substitute for going out and getting mucky. 😀

Rationalism is on the decline. Personally I think we're not encouraging children to explore the wonders of science and the natural world in the same way we used to. Kids don't connect with nature in the same way.

Folk can believe what they want what they cannot do is impose this on others or think we need to be taught it to make us better- arrogant ****ers.
Imagine their reaction if we made all religious schools do a daily act of Dawkins reading 😉
FWIW I also dont think it is a messag eo flove and toilerance and if it is it is an iron fist in a velvet glove

Junky, you may well be right.

The religious may well be getting their fundamental on in a response to decling numbers.

There is probably a lot of evidence to prove that humans are social animals and getting together in orgainsed groups to chat and do good things makes us feel better.

If religion didn't exist people would still do this. Infact it would be better as it would be more inclusive without all the god stuff to get in the way.

There's an [url= http://sundayassembly.com/ ]atheist "church"[/url] in That London and [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/alaindebotton ]Alain de Botton[/url] has written recently about atheists using architecture and music.

can we please just accept that if god exists, god is a domestic abuser and most probably female?

and junkyard, take a bit of time out from rationally thought/ineptly typed religious arguments and answer your text/emails. 😉

"The indoctrination of children into religious dogma is a form of child abuse."

I'm sorry you feel that way. Do you speak from experience? Is that where all your hatred comes from.

😳

Sits on naughty step texting

That told you!

Junkyard - Member
Rationalism is in the ascendency and most religious folk are token at best

JY - that is a great quote, which I might throw at a few students. Given the history of rationalism and its foundations in the likes of Wolffe, I look forward to seeing who sees the irony in that quote. But just goes to prove the arguments of adding historical perspectives to debates on religion.

As an aside, I wonder if relativism rather than rationalism isn't on the ascendency. As for the daily readings of Dawkins et al, everyone has access to the media!! 😉 Indeed the radio program referred to in the OP was hosted by a Guardian writer I believe!

One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.

Why not just brush it aside and ignore it if it's all just fairy tales and what-not?

😀

I'm sorry you feel that way. Do you speak from experience? Is that where all your hatred comes from.

You know you were supposed to turn the other cheek to the comment about child abuse, right?

Moses

Burning bush

Nuff said.

[i]Why not just brush it aside and ignore it if it's all just fairy tales and what-not?[/i]

because you're expecting my taxes to fund it.

otherwise I do 🙂

Have a good read, joao.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/a/AtheistsAngry.htm

People are making one hell of an assumption thinking religion is in decline. And generalising .

The Church of England may well be. But that's because it's not a proper religion in the first place. It was just created as an excuse for a fat bloke to shag about a bit. Now its just a sort of the 'none of the above' option to put on the census as you don't believe in anything specific, but you don't [i]not[/i] believe enough to describe yourself as an atheist.

Would you say Islam is in decline? Nope! And Catholicism is having a massive renaissance in this country due to immigration

Binners +1

Non C of E churches are growing too

"I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church" Edit... and believing in God.

But I guess I left that out, because most of you will think he believes in a Sky Wizard. What a nut job!?!

But I'm just like you... I like the outdoors, QI, meat pie, riding my bike hard, Spurs, quality sunday papers, classical music, rock n roll .... hell I've even got a pouncy/stupid coffee maker and a set of spare bombers hanging around the garage.... so do you really believe that I think there is a sky wizard controlling it all .... come on really ??

So

"to chat and do good things makes us feel better."

Yes agreed ... to be excellent to one another and for yourself I might add... for me God/church is like a lighting rod for that.... It makes me mind full of it, aware of it, gives it a name.

JY "Its a great time and religion(in the west) is on the decline"

Christianity maybe on the decline, I dont think Islam is on the decline here in the UK.

The religion of greed, vanity and celebrity worship is on the increase.

"I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church" Edit... and believing in God.

Not evidence of god, however.

"You know you were supposed to turn the other cheek to the comment about child abuse, right? "

Yeah I know... but I'm new to this game, old habits die hard. I'll get there I hope.

edit ... Oh a second chance... must resist temptation.

... or the existence of the alleged nazarene ......

One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.

Why not just brush it aside and ignore it if it's all just fairy tales and what-not?

Because it has more power and privilege than it should have.

The head of the church is also the head of state. The Church of England has reserved seats in the Lords. Religions get subsidised state schools.

Once Christianity has the same level of power and privilege as Zeus or Thor, we'll stop talking about it.

I wonder if relativism rather than rationalism isn't on the ascendency

That is a good one for the philosophy students and a fair point tbh

As for the daily readings of Dawkins et al, everyone has access to the media!!

Would you say Islam is in decline? Nope! And Catholicism is having a massive renaissance in this country due to immigration

FWIW I think those two religions share a remarkable quality
Folk who clearly do not follow one word / much of that religion still count themselves as belonging to it
IIRC 99% of catholics ignore the contraception rule so it depends what you look at tbh

I know a muslim who drinks , smoke s and commits adultery - he still thinks he is a Muslim and teh growth of the religion a good thing

I am a better [closer to being a ] Muslim than him

They will keep their pockets but they dont control the entire cosiety we live in.

Their power is in decline and it will be for ever

... or the existence of the alleged nazarene ......

I think the existence of Jesus is accepted now, because they went to a lot of effort to make up lots of things about him.

Turning the other cheek would actually indicate to a Roman Soldier that you were his equal or possibly get him into trouble - nothing to do with the way it's usually understood these days.

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.

I know a muslim who drinks , smoke s and commits adultery - he still thinks he is a Muslim and teh growth of the religion a good thing

If you tell someone in Ireland that you're an atheist they'll ask whether you're a catholic atheist or a protestant atheist.

Turning the other cheek would actually indicate to a Roman Soldier that you were his equal or possibly get him into trouble - nothing to do with the way it's usually understood these days.

I know. I was using it in the sense it's usually understood nowadays, rather than what Jesus meant.

I’ve never felt more happy, empowered, relaxed and free since I’ve been going to church.

I've met lots of bitter, uptight, depressed church-goers.

Yes but only the religious get Thought for the day

For which little "blessing", I am sure they are very grateful (in the context of the mainly secular media) 😉 !!

Hang on.

do you really believe that I think there is a sky wizard controlling it all .... come on really ??

Ro5ey, I apologise if I misunderstand, but are you saying that you're a church-going Christian but [i]don't[/i] believe in a god?

By extension then, is it fair to say that your life improvements aren't directly due to "I found religion" but rather "I joined a social club"?

For which little "blessing", I am sure they are very grateful (in the context of the mainly secular media) !!

Surely God is in everything? So, he's in the "secular" media as well as in Thought for The day.

I never thought I'd say this but I'm with Ro5ey here. Everyone who's dismissive of all religion just goes on about the Sky Fairy/imaginary friend stuff. And that's very easy to take the piss out of. In fact its hard not too. Its an open goal

I'm hardly religious but take my daughters to (catholic) church. Which, contrary to popular conception, is always rammed to the rafters on a Sunday. And it genuinely creates a sense of community. Which is a good thing, yes?

And the organisations they support/fund do a lot of good. We were hearing on Sunday about a catholic missionary from Salford who got himself bumped off a few years back, for ceaselessly fighting corruption in Africa, until it got him killed. But hey, we don't want to hear about that. We want to hear about him buggering choirboys

Folk who clearly do not follow one word / much of that religion still count themselves as belonging to it
IIRC 99% of catholics ignore the contraception rule so it depends what you look at tbh

How dare you!!! I'm a catholic and I have 2 kids!!!

And the organisations they support/fund do a lot of good.

What, the Jimmy Savile appreciation society; otherwise known as a large number of Catholic priests in many countries who systematically abused the people who trusted them for many decades?

I'm hardly religious but take my daughters to (catholic) church. Which, contrary to popular conception, is always rammed to the rafters on a Sunday. And it genuinely creates a sense of community. Which is a good thing, yes?

Community is great. It's not proof of god's existence.

My two go to church each Sunday with their mum. They also get money from the tooth fairy and Santa brings them presents. Both of them openly say that the tooth fairy isn't real, the eldest is hedging her bets on Santa just now, and both have declare that God's not real.

And the organisations they support/fund do a lot of good. We were hearing on Sunday about a catholic missionary from Salford who got himself bumped off a few years back, for ceaselessly fighting corruption in Africa, until it got him killed. But hey, we don't want to hear about that. We want to hear about him buggering choirboys

Are there no atheists doing good work in Africa?

Good reposte Mike - another question for later use! But the answer will depend on one's definition of omnipotence. But for sure, in one defintion, you are correct.

"I've met lots of bitter, uptight, depressed church-goers."

Strangley enough, I'm humble enough not to think I can talk for the billions of other peoples of faith... I wonder whether church taught me that, or I worked out for myself ?? No matter... I mearly give you MY honest and heartfelt feelings on the matter. Most will not give two figs, others will think happy clappy ******, but maybe my little twittering might mean something to someone... If its you, follow your heart... wish I had found this years ago when I lost that crutch in a drunken stupor 🙂

Good reposte Mike - another question for later use! But the answer will depend on one's definition of omnipotence. But for sure, in one defintion, you are correct.

I'm paraphrasing what a priest said to me when I said atheists wouldn't make a fuss about religion if religion didn't butt into secular matters. She said that there were no secular matters.

Is it that time of the month again?

I'm pretty much with you there Mike. I wasn't arguing for the existence of the soup dragon or otherwise, just making the point that organised religion gets a rough ride. Sometimes unfairly in my view.

No matter... I mearly give you MY honest and heartfelt feelings on the matter.

I'm happy that you're happy.

Binners you prove my earlier point - the catholics are excellent at keeping the lapsed within the flock 😉

I'm pretty much with you there Mike. I wasn't arguing for the existence of the soup dragon or otherwise, just making the point that organised religion gets a rough ride. Sometimes unfairly in my view.

Sometime. But often not.

joolsburger - Member
Is it that time of the month again?

Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it! 🙂

One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.

Why not just brush it aside and ignore it if it's all just fairy tales and what-not?

Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it!

CaptainFlashheart - Member
joolsburger - Member
Is it that time of the month again?
Yep, they've got religion, warfare AND royalty to argue about. And aren't they happy about it!

Y'know, we really missed your erudite contributions such as this in your brief moment of exile. 🙄

Strangley enough, I'm humble

Why is that?

I listened to the guy this morning, did not agree with most of what he said but he seemed a really nice chap. He sounded a better person than many I can think of.

Cougar ... Yes I believe in God but not in sky wizards, santa or the tooth fairy.

And we been here before... if you want to find God, go look for him.

There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction. But it's really up to you?

"why is that"

Because all those great feelings I mentioned earlier are so empowering that one could quite easily become a self obsessed know it all.

I've possible sounded like one in earlier posts, like I said I've alot to learn.

Just trying to give a different view

I struggle with long sentences (although I got about half way).

I work with a family of JWs. That's what they believe in. I'm not going to question it.

I believe in God but not in sky wizards

Ah, ok, so it's just the terminology you're objecting to? Ie, if your post had read,

do you really believe that I think there is a [s]sky wizard[/s] [b]god[/b] controlling it all .... come on really ??

... then the answer would be that yes, you do?

(I'm not trolling, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you mean)

if you want to find God, go look for him.

Something omnipresent shouldn't be difficult to find.

There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction.

The [url= http://goo.gl/maps/jtUpD ]secondary school[/url]? Do I ask to speak to the science teachers or the RE teachers? Or the geographers? 🙂

The big building at the other end of the street is [url= http://goo.gl/maps/2gdfg ]a Church of England church[/url]. I'm having dinner with the Rector on Friday.

There's a big building at the end of your street, you'll find the people in there will happily assist you in the general direction.

None of these people and their forbears have, since the beginning of recorded time, been able to produce evidence of a god.

If you have different information, then your Nobel Prize awaits.

I've noticed that these threads are drawing less and less supporters of [s]superstition[/s] [b]faith[/b] to the argument than formerly. The few who do turn up, seem to quickly fade away.

Possibly because...

One thing's for sure, all the non-religious people always seem to get very angry and defensive about their precious atheism/agnosticism.

Ergo, there seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness that may well have a direct and proportional relationship with your sense of manliness/ego/pride (delete as appropriate following your own soul searching).

I for one, am looking forward to finding out the TRUTH as and when it is my time to do so. Until then I choose to have MY faith and therefore freely and willingly accept that others have theirs. Possibly including those who fear it.

but he seemed a really nice chap

Only joking, I guess I'd consider believing in god as a bit of a character flaw, I have many of my own, I tend to be a bit talky and evangelical about bikes so I try to be careful about who I preach to, to prevent boring the arse off of people. These flaws are [i]normally[/i] minor things and don't make you a horrible person. Some of my best friends are christian.

Some of the religions are pretty easy going and like a social club which can have many virtues but it's a bit difficult to get away from the fact that saying you converse with god is pretty much the same as saying you converse with the salad drawer of your fridge, only the fact that religion is accepted by society differs between the two.

organised religion interfering in how a country runs is pretty bad tho and should be stopped.

*I've tried not to be abusive here, sorry if it comes across as me thinking religious people are a bit stupid, but hey if it makes you feel better you're going to heaven and I'm going to burn in hell so we'll call it quits.

I for one, am looking forward to finding out the TRUTH as and when it is my time to do so.

One imagines, on the balance of probabilities, that you'll be DISAPPOINTED.

there seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness that may well have a direct and proportional relationship with your sense of manliness/ego/pride

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/sep/09/god-richard-dawkins-angry-atheist ]I would encourage "campaigning" atheists and skeptics to think about the tone they use to deliver their messages. It should be obvious that how we say things is often as important, if not more so, than what we say.[/url]

I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line, but if I occasionally cross it it's unintentional.

Some of the religions are pretty easy going and like a social club but it's a bit difficult to get away from the fact that saying you converse with god is pretty much the same as saying you converse with the salad drawer of your fridge, only the fact that religion is accepted by society differs between the two.

There is pretty good evidence that whilst inanimate, the salad drawer does at least exist.

[i]on the balance of probabilities, that you'll be DISAPPOINTED. [/i]

see the thing is if this life is all that there is then he won't be disappointed 'cos he/his soul won't exist to be.

all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.

It could be that the Atom that created the Universe is actually God, so God is an Atom!

There is pretty good evidence that whilst inanimate, the salad drawer does at least exist.

all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.

slackalice - Member

there seems little point engaging with those of you with no FAITH as your erstwhile intellectual black and white responses, born from an irrational FEAR of the unknown, indicate an unshakeable closed mindedness...

a closed mind?

i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.

what would it take to change your mind?

all us non-believers *may* be in for a nasty surprise, though.

Given that more than one religion states that followers of other religions are damned to eternity in hell, and that non believers will follow the same fate, I suspect if religion(s) exist, we're all off to a hot place under ground...

closed minded?

i, like many atheists, would change my mind if i was presented with evidence.

what would it take to change your mind?

Good retort that 😀

I would hope that I keep the the not-being-a-dick side of the line

You invariably do.