[Closed] Creationist religious nutjob on R4 "One to One 9.30am"

why aren't people with such beliefs sectioned under the mental health act?

Because sectioning people who have a different view of life to you is about as retarded as imprisoning people who have a different sexual orientation to you.

I'm 100% with somafunk.

Kenny, I agree, Saville should have been locked up years ago.

I could not be in more violent disagreement with creationists if I tried, but I wholeheartedly agree with Kenny Senior.

Somafunk you're bordering on being offensive with your comments.

give them a children's pop-up book on dinosaurs?

The fossils were made in sediment from Noah's flood, which wiped out the dinosaurs. Even Noah couldn't get two of every dinosaur onto a boat.

[i]Creationist teaching in certain American states[/i]

A number of proposed Free Schools in the UK have also proposed this. Most subsequently removed it from publicity material when it was pointed out it was illegal but I suspect they'll actually do it anyway.

I have no problem with different points of view.

What really boils my wee is State funded religious schools. Why should I pay to indoctrinate other peoples children into a belief system?

I predict this thread will descend into utter hypocrisy very soon.

What really boils my wee is State funded religious schools. Why should I pay to indoctrinate other peoples children into a belief system?

I agree with this. The worse part though is not that your funding the teaching of a religious belief, after all faith schools do perform significantly better than non-faith schools so there is a benefit to society.

No the more pernicious part is that in order to get the best education without having to pay for it, at least one parent has to subscribe to the school's associated church.

Pulling up a chair.

Sapiens Creationi

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.conservapedia.com/Dinosaur ]Creationist Dinosaurs[/url]

Its all covered here.

T-Rex was a vegan and use to go on long walks with Adam

Why on earth do the disciples of received opinion get so irate about what these things?

Pulling up a chair.

Don't get comfortable. Basically more or less everyone agrees with the sentiment expressed by the OP, just not how it's been put.

I shared a house at Uni with a creationist. She was a very bright girl. Her belief in the story of Genesis was absolute and literal. I was the first time that I'd come across someone who thought like this and it was quite a surprise.

[i] I was the first time that I'd come across someone who thought like this and it was quite a surprise. [/i]

I always find it really hard to deal with. You can't have a discussion without appearing to be trying to undermine their whole religious belief.

My mum is a minister and believes in the literal truth of the Bible.

We don't discuss religion much - there's no common ground and I think we both accept no one's going to change their opinion.

What really boils my wee is State funded religious schools. Why should I pay to indoctrinate other peoples children into a belief system?

... but you're happy to pay to indoctrinate them with [i]your[/i] "belief system" that they shouldn't have a religious belief?

Excellent logic. (well, this is STW I suppose).

😀

I and my wife are Christians. It doesn't boil our wee that we're paying for state schools to indoctrinate other peoples children into a non-religious belief system.

😀

Ultimately, having a religious belief is called "making a personal choice".

In the UK at least, beliefs are still taught as options/choices, not enforced.

It still beggars belief that most of our society is centred around teachings which have been proven wrong.
I wish that all the religions would say fair enough its all bollocks. We shall call our selves Nice Club from now on. They can still sing happy songs and help people.Obviously they will skip the hating certain people bits.
I'm all for sun worshipping. Its definitely there and it gives life to our planet.
Thank you Sun.

[i].. but you're happy to pay to indoctrinate them with your "belief system" that they shoudln't have a religious belief?[/i]

errm, how does that work?

Non religious state schools don't have lessons on "how to be a good atheist" do they?

[i]In the UK at least, beliefs are still taught as options/choices, not enforced. [/i]

If you go to a state funded school that is run by a particular religious group you have to attend a daily act of worship and listen to all of the specific religious views that the school teaches. There is no option or choice for the child.

anyway, as I said above, there's no common ground so it's largely a pointless discussion. Which is [i]very [/i]stw. So I'm out.

I and my wife are Christians. It doesn't boil our wee that we're paying for state schools to indoctrinate other peoples children into a non-religious belief system.

Presume from the smiley face that you aren't really serious, but exactly what is wrong with the state just educating people in you know science and stuff and leaving religion to take place privately?

Its not a "different view of life ", its provably false.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be explained to joao3v16 and, presumably, his wife, that evidence-based science is not a "belief system".

Sits back.

From a personal perspective I think that state funded schools should be secular.
Religion is personal choice and religious teaching should funded and delivered outside the scope of the learning environment.

Evolution is just a theory - one that is full of holes too

Oh good, this again.

😐

If you go to a state funded school that is run by a particular religious group you have to attend a daily act of worship and listen to all of the specific religious views that the school teaches. There is no option or choice for the child.

All state schools, even ones not run by a faith group, have to have a [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/sep/11/daily-worship-schools-law ]daily act of collective worship which is broadly Christian in nature[/url]. [i]All[/i] schools are required by law to indoctrinate our children into the (Anglican) Christian faith, though thankfully most schools ignore, or just pay lip service to, this requirement.

Evolution is just a theory - one that is full of holes too

So's gravity. Do you ever feel like just floating off?

Good point Mike.

I'm pleased to say that all of the schools my children have attended have cheerfully ignored this aspect of the law 🙂

[i]Evolution is just a theory - one that is full of holes too [/i]

and if someone comes up with a better - scientifically based - theory then all the agnostics/atheists will cheerfully accept it.

Anyone with a religious belief will have to stick with what some bloke 3000 years ago thought God had told him to say, regardless of the facts.

I said I was out, didn't I. Damn.

re: mr woppit, your belief system whatever it may be, cannot help but colour how you view everything including scientific evidence. you can't get away from your presuppositions.

So's gravity. Do you ever feel like just floating off?

Aw come on; the evidence for gravity is a lot stronger than for evolution even if evolution is almost certainly true.

As for secular schooling, well all I can say is that those damn Americans have precisely the right idea (as do the French).

It is illegal there to have any kind of worship in schools.

You can't have a discussion without appearing to be trying to undermine their whole religious belief.

*but still ultimately flawed

even if evolution is almost certainly true.

Some doubt creeping in there! 😆

It still beggars belief that most of our society is centred around teachings which have been proven wrong.

thing is many of the teachings do make sense, ten commandments as a general guide work.

Many of them also don't anymore, the bible is a book writen over thousands of years and reflects the world of its writers. It does contain a large amount of middle eastern history just hidden amongst a load of crap.

as for this being a christian country? why do we allow usury????

As for teaching it, no issue, just teach it as a historical source, teach it alongside norse/greek/roman mythology, budhism, islam, etc etc.

What also should be taught is that the bible, koran, etc are responsible for some of the stupidity around, they are books, but they have been edited and twisted by some for their own ends.

Some doubt creeping in there!

I like Karl Popper's philosophical definition of science.

A scientific 'fact' is only a fact in the absence of falsifying evidence. Nothing that is scientific can be conclusively proven to be true; it can only be conclusively proven not to be false at any given moment.

This means that all scientists should be prepared to accept their theory as being potentially wrong, which is the key difference between science and religion, at least as far as I can tell.

Aw come on; the evidence for gravity is a lot stronger than for evolution even if evolution is almost certainly true.

Actually there is a big slice of physics that simply has to ignore gravity to make the equations work

There is not a similar conflict in biology or other natural sciences over the role of evolution.

So on that basis evolution is a more sound theory than gravity

It still beggars belief that most of our society is centred around teachings which have been proven wrong.
I wish that all the religions would say fair enough its all bollocks. We shall call our selves Nice Club from now on. They can still sing happy songs and help people.Obviously they will skip the hating certain people bits.
I'm all for sun worshipping. Its definitely there and it gives life to our planet.
Thank you Sun.

So, next Ophera show is the Pope....

"So, Mr Pope, just answer 'Yes' or 'No'..."
"You agree that the bible is a pile of bollox with no more relvence than Lord of the Rings?"..... "Yes"
.....

I went to a mates church one night for a lecture from an ex assassin guy who had found religion and converted and 'forgave' himself... anyway, went for a meal afterwards and the guys were laughing about a guy they knew who insisted he was once abducted by aliens.

They were mocking him as they insisted aliens don't exist.

I piped up that jesus and god don't exist.

You know that silence that descends upon a group when someone says something they don't like... i ate my spare ribs and left.

Religion is personal choice and religious teaching should funded and delivered outside the scope of the learning environment.

I didn't think religion was taught in schools to make people religious, I thought it was taught to educate about different cultures, lifestyles etc?

My 6yo goes to a C of E school. They're not taught only about Christianity. They're not taught "Islam* is wrong" etc.

(* other religions are available)

As for the Creation vs Evolution thing, it seems to pretty much boil down to animals/plants showing similar characteristics (genetics, dna).

If things have evolved, you'd probably expect to see similarities.
Similarly, with intelligent design / creation, you'd probably expect to see the same similarities - why reinvent the wheel every time when certain genes or dna strings can be re-used.

😀

I know some Christians and went to church for a while. I used to get wound up when the creationists got going and when one said in a discussion with other Christians that anyone who wasn't a creationist wouldn't go to heaven I told him that the vicar of the church he went to wasn't a creationist. He said he knew the vicar very well and doubted I was right. Maybe it was a coincidence but he soon left that church. He was a bright guy - highly paid lawyer - so it's not about intelligence.

re: mr woppit, your belief system whatever it may be, cannot help but colour how you view everything including scientific evidence. you can't get away from your presuppositions.

I know that I am guilty of this.

If it is proven science I tend to believe something.
If the facts fit, but there is no definite proof I tend to believe something is a theory.
If it is in the Bible [s]I tend to think[/s] it is horseshit.

Because sectioning people who have a different view of life to you is about as retarded as imprisoning people who have a different sexual orientation to you.

You think its rational to believe in creationsims then and that the evidence supports this

They DSMV [ ar eyou mad checklist]specfically mentions "culturally accepted beliefs" to exempt religion as it would tick all the boxes of madness otherwise- its an irrational belief as there is not enough evidence to support the conclusion

I could not be in more violent disagreement with creationists if I tried, but I wholeheartedly agree with Kenny Senior.

Somafunk you're bordering on being offensive with your comments.

Evolution is just a theory - one that is full of holes too

Its funny to listen to folk witha religious view claim evolution has holes - its incpomplete for sure but creationism is nothing but holes

Aw come on; the evidence for gravity is a lot stronger than for evolution even if evolution is almost certainly true

All state schools, even ones not run by a faith group, have to have a daily act of collective worship which is broadly Christian in nature. All schools are required by law to indoctrinate our children into the (Anglican) Christian faith, though thankfully most schools ignore, or just pay lip service to, this requirement.

THIS whats more if you belong to a faith you can demand to go to the faith school of your choice and we will bus you there. If you choose to go to a non faith school you get to go to the nearest school irrespective - only the religious have the choice to choose. Once in our non faith school we still have to worship and study RE to age 16 so it sort of negates your view about choice and equality as only the religious choose their school and only the religious teach us all how to be religious - there is no aethism act in school. Would you be happy if we did this to you ..would it be reasonable?
Still why would I expect logic from one of faith?
Kepep the faith as you sure dont have any evidence for your fanciful view

 

I didn't think religion was taught in schools to make people religious, I thought it was taught to educate about different cultures, lifestyles etc?

My 6yo goes to a C of E school. They're not taught only about Christianity. They're not taught "Islam* is wrong" etc.

There's a difference between religious studies and the acts of worship. In assemblies, I bet they're told about Noah's ark and Jesus' parables and say Christian prayers and sing Christian hymns.

As for the Creation vs Evolution thing, it seems to pretty much boil down to animals/plants showing similar characteristics (genetics, dna).

If things have evolved, you'd probably expect to see similarities.
Similarly, with intelligent design / creation, you'd probably expect to see the same similarities - why reinvent the wheel every time when certain genes or dna strings can be re-used.

Ah yes, if you pick a little bit of evolution, you can make it fit with a designer. But as soon as you start introducing slightly bigger/different ideas, it starts making intelligent design look like a silly idea.

I've worked with 'Creationists' over in the 'states. Their 'belief' is totally beyond me.

Mind you, once at a party I was talking with a Dutch colleague and they couldn't believe that anyone would believe in 'creationism' - so he went for a chat with my Yank colleague. After an hour or so I popped into the conversation and it had almost finished - so I asked what were their views on abortion... 😆

ten commandments as a general guide work.

(with the obvious exceptions of no murder/theft)

your belief system whatever it may be, cannot help but colour how you view everything including scientific evidence. you can't get away from your presuppositions

Its true but what you forget is that science is a method of finding truth [ eliminating error]. It is not prescriptive about what will be found out just simply the way to find it.

Its true tahta when you say something we expect some evidence that is independently and objectively observable as true to support your view.
Why is this unwise?

Its strikes me as infinitely more rational than just going but I have this book and even though i know all[ or many of you prefer] the facts are wrong about how we came to be I STILL HVAE THIS BOOK.

Beleive i fyo wishbut you cannot think its a credible account of how we came to be - its a guess made by an uneducated person thousands of years ago with no access to what we know now.

Likewise new religiosn like Scientology link into to space travel and aliens and the like as even that is more plasusible [ imagine that space travelling laiens sedding life is more plausible that creationism - that how daft it is ].

When I become emperor of the world. Religious teaching will be banned during regular school hours, except during history classes when it's considered a requirement to understanding events of the period studied.

Religious groups of any faith would be free to run after school clubs, attendance would not be mandatory. All funding for these clubs would be raised by the religious groups themselves and they would receive no state funding, if they want to charge a fee that's up to them. It's there club.