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Phil - have just been peeking. Those other historical texts are not very reliable and were written hundreds of years after the 'events'.
For me it comes down to the burden of proof and the fact that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you told me there was a religious leader around 2000 years ago who got some disciples and was persecuted then I'd most probably agree and also think that it happened more than once to other religious folk.
If then, tagged onto the end was, 'and it was the son of the creator of the entire universe who was actually himself and got killed so that the original sin could be removed' then it moves into the 'extraordinary claim' territory.
As for evidence of this very extraordinary claim I have no idea what would prove it, in the context of all other religions, so the only answer I would have is "What you got?" 😀
I was won over by 'evidence' but you might be looking for a different kind of evidence to me.
I want the same evidence as when anyone postulates anything. I dont care how genuine they are in believing this be it a homoeopath or someone reading my aura. I dont know what kind of evidence you found but it is not real nor demonstratable
They knew Jesus very well and had followed him everywhere, they saw it all first hand, and they were willing to die horrible deaths as 'heretics' for what they taught. For my friend, this 'evidence' was enough for him
Forgive the Goodwin but a lot of nazis did this for Hitler
It proves nothing.
my point is that those disciples must have been fully convinced by what they saw
as above - it proves they believed [ of the accounts written 300 years after their death are to be believed. It does not prove they are correct any more than a suicide bomber dying for their faith proves they are correct.
historical texts
So is merlin/Arthur and in much the same way it was hundreds of years after his death. It does not make it true. When it is not even written at the time then we have to wonder how accurate the "word of mouth" is 200 years later.
You cannot prove god by the standards of proof we demand for other things. if you use that standard you can prove everything as long as folk are devout enough in thinking its true
Whit is yer favrite colurr?
Adam, fair point. Proving I've got the right one is a fair ask. For me, the bible itself is my evidence, together with what I've seen of the believers here today and the lives they lead. I guess its easier for me because I've been brought up in church and have seen 'faith in action' all my life. But I still had to come to my own decision, which I didn't take lightly.
The bible is a very special book. I've studied it for many years, and yet it constantly amazes me. the way things fit together so perfectly despite being written by many different writers over a vast period of time, to me it doesn't take much to realise its a supernatural book. I appreciate you don't want to spend years reading the bible, you want the answers now, and I don't blame you. But I can promise you this, time spent reading the bible with an open heart is never wasted time. Start with say with one of the four gospels and let me know how you get on. That's not just an invitation to you Adam, but everyone on this thread.
Gotta go now, on my way out.
some would say that the fact that Christians focus their time/love towards others, in helping those in need is indeed 'evidence'
Some would say it's "evidence", some would say it's a can of spaghetti hoops. You can't just provide evidence by redefining the word "evidence" to mean something else.
my friend said that for him,despite knowing what he does, the greatest evidence wasn't scientific, but the fact that the first disciples were willing to die for their faith.
That's only evidence if you believe in the first place.
Love ... of an individual for their God are not in dispute are they?
No, it's the love in the opposite direction I'm disputing. You can love any invisible friend you like, I'll be shocked if they love you back.
The bible is a very special book. I've studied it for many years, and yet it constantly amazes me. the way things fit together so perfectly
Sorry, I thought you said you'd read it. It's probably the single most self-contradictory text there is.
No, it's the love in the opposite direction I'm disputing.
For me, the bible itself is my evidence,
What even the bits we know to be factually wrong
. Start with say with one of the four gospels and let me know how you get on
Yes dont read leviticus
"All the fat is the Lord's." 3:16
Moses puts blood on Aaron's right ear, thumb, and big toe. 8:23-24
God's 13th Killing:
God kills Aaron's sons for offering "strange fire before the Lord." 10:1-2
Hares are unclean since they chew the cud. 11:6
Bats are just unclean birds. 11:13,19
Four-legged birds are an abomination to God. 11:20
Insects have four legs. 11:21, 23
Baby girls are twice as dirty as baby boys. 12:1-8
God's cure for leprosy. 14:2-32
What to do if "he that hath the issue spit upon him that is clean." 15:8
What to do "if any man's seed of copulation go out from him." 15:16-18
Menstruating women are unclean to God. 15:19-30
God's law for wet dreams. 15:16-17, 32
Don't look at any naked menstruating women. 18:19
Homosexuality is an abomination to God. 18:22
Don't mix seeds when sowing a field or wear a garment with mixed fibers. 19:19
If you have sex with a slave woman, you must then scourge her. 19:20
Don't round the corners of your head or mar the corners of your beard. 19:27
Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. 20:9-12
Woman with "familiar spirits" must be stoned to death. 20:27
The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death. 21:9
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. 21:16-23
God's 14th Killing:
A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. "And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded." 24:10-23
God's instructions for buying slaves. 25:45-46
"Ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it." 26:16
God will "send wild beasts among you, which shall rob your of your children." 26:22
"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." 26:29
God places a dollar value on human life; women are worth less (50 - 60%) than men. 27:3-7
You can love any invisible friend you like, I'll be shocked if they love you back.
It was funny but putting it twice is the sin of vanity 😉
C&P error; fixed now, TY.
It's not arrogant to say that you can't figure out the answers to the universe.
It's not arrogant to know that there's no omniscient, omnipotent prime mover in the universe who loves you personally.
It's not sad to feel that life and the love of your real friends and family is more than enough to make life worth living.
Isn't it much sadder to feel that there is a more important love required, that demanded by your god, than the love of the people who have chosen to spend their limited time with you
If every trace of any single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again.There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again
such deep and original insight is rare!
such deep and original insight is rare!
lol, I love you too, you piss taking wee scrotey. unfortunately I'm far to much of dobber (as well you know and often point out) to have come up with such a clever thing and it is the words of the rather eloquent penn gillete wot I stole and put up here.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Im sure he would of been a mountain biker too.....
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Cartoons! because they are a lot easier than thinking!
But I can promise you this, time spent reading the bible with an open heart is never wasted time. Start with say with one of the four gospels and let me know how you get on. That's not just an invitation to you Adam, but everyone on this thread.
Don't forget the Quran, the Sutras, the book of mormon and Tao Te Ching too. Got to open your heart to all of them.
*edited* life is too short to waste on negative feeling towards another, even if they are a Charlie Uniform November.....
don't get all upset, it's just the same joke [i]you [/i]made
i think he may have been subtlety suggesting that quote has been used several times already in this thread.such deep and original insight is rare!
it has of course been edited and re-edited quite a few times and had stuff removed, bit bizarre that they still haven't managed to sort out the contradictions, removed the really silly bits and clarify the contentious stuffthe way things fit together so perfectly despite being written by many different writers over a vast period of time,
it certainly is an incredible bit of text, seems that you can use it to prove/argue your case whatever that is, even more amazingly someone diametrically opposed to you can also use it to argue [b]their[/b] case. Astounding bit of literitchoor. But not supernatural.to me it doesn't take much to realise its a supernatural book.
For a bunch of self-confessed Atheists, you sure have taken up a lot of time, space and energy convincing yourselves of your non-belief and denouncing those who do. I'm not sure whether to applaud you, cry or laugh. I'm opting for the latter. Go in peace people.
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+1 and 900 (good grief)
For a bunch of self-confessed Atheists, you sure have taken up a lot of time, space and energy convincing yourselves of your non-belie
we are trying to convince them they are wrong not convince ourselves.
Go in education
Molgrips, your point about choosing to believe your wife loves you, would it then be right to say that unless you chose to believe that she loves you, you wouldn't be able to experience that love? you chose to accept the 'evidence' which again might not be considered to be 'true' scientific evidence that many in this thread are asking for, but still, it was plenty enough evidence for you to believe
That is exactly the point I was trying to make 🙂
As for evidence - the truth is essential un-knowable. It's a bit like Plato's cave - if you feel a great profound love for God, how do you know it's not just all in your head? How do you know someone hasn't spiked your drink with acid and MDMA?
The people who died for Jesus could have been motivated by divine love or just bonkers. There is really know way of knowing for sure.
I guess that's why they call it faith. Does that about close the thread?
As for evidence - the truth is essential un-knowable.
The truth may be unknowable, but we can rank hypotheses based on likelihood of probability.
It's a bit like Plato's cave - if you feel a great profound love for God, how do you know it's not just all in your head?
Often people with dementia are fully aware of their illness, at least in the initial stages.
The lack of verifiable evidence should be a powerful enough argument for most rationally minded people.
How do you know someone hasn't spiked your drink with acid and MDMA?
Chance would be a fine thing. 🙂
we are trying to convince them they are wrong not convince ourselves.
I'm not, I just enjoy the discussion. If someone suddenly goes "oh, yeah" along the way that's just a bonus.
The lack of verifiable evidence should be a powerful enough argument for most rationally minded people.
Nonono. See, the thing is, some people have an evidence based world view. They are analytical and think that to believe something they need hard evidence.
But other people don't think like that. Let's face it, who the hell cares how the universe was created? Why don't I just choose the theory that makes me feel good? Why worry about whether or not it's true?
Don't conflate belief in God, religion and things done in the name of religion. Religious people do do bad things, but so do non religious people.
If you just go around thinking you're all smug and right with your science, and all religious people are just being dense, then you are never going to learn anything about human kind.
Atheists thinking religious people are stupid is exactly the same as religious people pitying atheists for not believing in God.
As for trying to convince people - I just want to progress the debate and get people thinking. It's cos I love you all... 😉
As for trying to convince people - I just want to progress the debate and get people thinking. It's cos I love you all...
With respect, you are turning into Simon Barnes.
And really, really not in a good way.
As for evidence - the truth is essential un-knowable
Is this your view of all postulated entities that have no physical proof or just for god mr physicist?
The only reason we have this debate is because you canno tprove a negative - its impossible as there is no evidence - do you describe all things of which you have no evidence as " we cannot be sure"?
Unicorns?
You should employ the same standards for theology as you do any other claimed physical entity.
PS they claim god is everywhere , in everything and its obvious so it really should be a piece of piss for them.
Its clearly bobbins and the we cannot be certain is only true in the sense we cannot be certain of anything if setting the bar stupidly high.
You cannot claim something , fail to show any evidence for it and then claim we cannot be certain - well you can but you are a fool
Why worry about whether or not it's true?
you want to worship a deity and claim they made the world, follow their word but not actually consider whether it is true or not. No one is that stupid
Religious people do do bad things, but so do non religious people.
Yes but we never blow ourselves up in gods name
If you just go around thinking you're all smug and right with your science, and all religious people are just being dense, then you are never going to learn anything about human kind.
Your right science can teach us nothing about human kind. i mean we should definitely not empirically study them we should take a book and just believe ...there is no better way to understanding humans obviously.
Lets scrap mental health and start the exorcisms forwith
I think i shall start ignoring you on these threads - you dont believe in god so I have no idea why you need to do this tbh
careful, religious peeps don't own the copyright on exploding themselves, thought it was more a tactic of people whose country is occupied, religious or otherwise.Yes but we never blow ourselves up in gods name
Molly is just continuing the discussion, playing devils advocate*
*assuming that term means what I think it means
Don't conflate belief in God, religion and things done in the name of religion. Religious people do do bad things, but so do non religious people.
Yes. We know.
But the non religious don't do bad things and then use god as justification.
But other people don't think like that. Let's face it, who the hell cares how the universe was created? Why don't I just choose the theory that makes me feel good? Why worry about whether or not it's true?
Yes. We'll try and breed this trait out.
Or maybe try surgery.
Don't conflate belief in God, religion and things done in the name of religion. Religious people do do bad things, but so do non religious people.
Show me once, in all the religion threads we've ever done, where anyone has ever suggested that non religious people don't do bad things.
If you just go around thinking you're all smug and right with your science, and all religious people are just being dense, then you are never going to learn anything about human kind.
I don't. We know.
Why are you posting this rubbish?
Are you getting paid by the cliche? 🙂
Atheists thinking religious people are stupid is exactly the same as religious people pitying atheists for not believing in God.
No it isn't.
The reason why has been explained approximately once every page throughout this thread.
See what I mean about Barnes? 😀
Well you must surely all draw comfort that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, commander of it's biggest army and arguably most destructive force, to this very day, believes in God.
See that post back there.. Ironic it was 911 just as I was about to counter it with the fact that the leader of their biggest opposing force also believes in God, some would argue the same God, but both think each other are evil.
*edited* life is too short to waste on negative feeling towards another, even if they are a Charlie Uniform November.....
Lovely, just because i made the same gag about you as you made about other people. Still,at least it prompted you to nearly express a thought.
just because i made the same gag about you as you made about other people
no it was the systematic stalking and trying to start arguments at every opportunity as if you had some personal crusade/grudge a while ago that formed my opinion of you and then you vanished for a bit and it was peaceful and lovely and now you've returned
i've missed you charlie, welcome back 😆
The thing is, as I've tried to point out a few times before, religion isn't some lovely harmless thing that we can let people get one with and mind our own business.
Religion mutilates children's genitals (Christians, in the UK), subjugates women, encourages homophobia, discourages safe sex and family planning, blows people up, starts wars, continues wars...
If you want to hack your children around because your god (which ever one of the many that is) says so, I think we all have a right to see some proof he/or she said that.
Well you must surely all draw comfort that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, commander of it's biggest army and arguably most destructive force, to this very day, believes in God.
You think? Or does he just say that to appease the masses?
TuckerUK - Member
The thing is, as I've tried to point out a few times before, religion isn't some lovely harmless thing that we can let people get one with and mind our own business.Religion mutilates children's genitals (Christians, in the UK), subjugates women, encourages homophobia, discourages safe sex and family planning, blows people up, starts wars, continues wars...
I'm becoming concerned with your fixation on children's genitals, this must be the third or fourth time now, are you a teacher by any chance?
And as to religion doing it, it's not religion, or God, it is stupid folks interpretation.
it's not religion, or God, it is stupid folks interpretation
The teacher in me wants to bother to get the biblical quotes that support their homophobia, treatment of women etc but experience teaches me some folk you just cant teach 😉
Its sometimes stupid folk - Islamic suicide bombers for example. it sometime what the god says - homosexuality bad
Junkyard - Member
it's not religion, or God, it is stupid folks interpretationit sometime what the god says - homosexuality bad
But the 'God' didn't say it did she? It was some mad mans interpretation and people were stupid enough to believe him.
So if it were to occur today and say Obama came down a mountain and told the American people God had spoken to him, would as many folk take it as gospel?
You'll be telling me L Ron Hubbard was wrong next.
[i]Ok Ok it was a troll that last bit, it just slipped out, I'll stop now[/i] 😉
The teacher in me wants to bother to get the biblical quotes that support their homophobia, treatment of women etc but experience teaches me some folk you just cant teach
Best not to, the scientist in me would want you to show me the causal link between what it says in the bible and the way people behave
Best not to, the scientist in me would want you to show me the causal link between what it says in the bible and the way people behave
No need.
If Christians were genuinely outraged by the hatred of homosexuals, beating of children, blatant anti-prawn propoganda and prejudice promoted in their main source of doctrinal knowledge, then they would have chosen another religion.
But they didn't.
If Christians were genuinely outraged by the hatred of homosexuals, beating of children, blatant anti-prawn propoganda and prejudice promoted in their main source of doctrinal knowledge, then they would have chosen another religion.
But they didn't.
Yeah, they all love it.
Best not to, the [s]scientist[/s]gentle enquiring troll in me would want you to show me the causal link between what it says in the bible and the way people behave
Your right we could never show any link between what the Bible says and how christains behave. I mean the bible says marriage is between a man and a womaan and that homosexuality is an abomination, they are campaigning to keep the gays out of marriage and quoting the bible as the reason but yeah we could not prove anything
Islam has 5 pillars of faith and you can see them pray 5 x per day and watch them do the haj but yeah it might just all be coincidence they are doing what the book tells them to
Islam has 5 pillars of faith and you can see them pray 5 x per day and watch them do the haj but yeah it might just all be coincidence they are doing what the book tells them to
Well, this is how we would look for a link, we look for folks who are muslim and see how many of them do those 5 things, then we see how many non-muslims do those 5 things, then we see if there is at least a correlation if not causality.
We could domthe same with homophobia, for example, look at christians, see if they are homophobic, then look at non-christian homophobes. That way we could see if homophobia was a 'christian' thing or not. Could do the same with what ever treatment of women you are specifically referring to.
am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo
Well, this thread is meaningless, but then, so is everything...
We could domthe same with homophobia, for example, look at christians, see if they are homophobic, then look at non-christian homophobes. That way we could see if homophobia was a 'christian' thing or not. Could do the same with what ever treatment of women you are specifically referring to.
Sure, there's Christian and non-Christian homophobes; that particular problem is a 'people' problem.
What you're neatly glossing over is, the Christian faith is 'against' homosexuality and, topically at the moment, same-sex marriage; regardless of personal prejudice the flock are supposed to follow the faith and do what they're told. Now, this shouldn't matter, and as an organisation they can think what they like; however because the faith enjoys special privilege within our government, it means that we've effectively got a prejudiced lobby group with a direct influence on our laws.
am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo
Why are you choosing to read something you think is meaningless? Go and ride your bike.
the Christian faith is 'against' homosexuality and, topically at the moment, same-sex marriage; regardless of personal prejudice the flock are supposed to follow the faith and do what they're told
This is why i was describing the approach above, it woild showmifmthe flock actually did what they were told in terms of disapproving of homosexuality, If we have a prejudiced lobby within government then it is the government which is at fault, not the church.
am I the only one that thinks these threads are a bit meaningless at the mo
Not at all. It keeps all the riff-raff in one, easily avoidable, thread.
I went to school to stop believing in imaginary friends - not to hook up with the same one as everybody else.
now you [i]may[/i] have a point here, how many xtians disagree with the churches homophobic standpoint and believe gay marriages should be legit? I've heard several christians on here and in the real world say they are cool with homosexuality and same sex marriages but not sure any of them* are lobbying their local priest/clergy/whoever to tell the head council to drop this obsession with interfering in other people's lives. Has anyone got any links/info about CoE or catholic groups who are trying this? If the majority of the flock disagreed surely the religious leaders wouldn't press the issue for fear of upsetting the flock? (Looks at current government, thinks about average man in street, wonders if that last sentence wasn't as persuasive as I first thought)This is why i was describing the approach above, it woild showmifmthe flock actually did what they were told in terms of disapproving of homosexuality
*forgive me if you have,and let us know.
But the 'God' didn't say it did she? It was some mad mans interpretation and people were stupid enough to believe him.So if it were to occur today and say Obama came down a mountain and told the American people God had spoken to him, would as many folk take it as gospel?
But isn't that the point that many have been trying to make, that 'the Word of God', as handed down over the ages, is always that of a human being, who says that God spoke to him, and that everyone should accept this unequivocally, because God hath spoken?
This is why I've never been drawn to any faith, I was brought up to make up my own mind, and nothing I've ever read or heard has led to me wanting to join any particular faith or religion. Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.
I've come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural 'force', for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature. Give the whole 'thing' a name, call it 'God' or whatever you like, Pantheism is what comes closest to my way of thinking.
It avoids arguing about who's right and who's wrong, because, in the end, it's just irrelevant. 😀
I'm still enjoying the whole debate, I'm really glad that its kept going this long without really descending into opprobrium.
now you may have a point here, how many xtians disagree with the churches homophobic standpoint and believe gay marriages should be legit?
They do indeed do this in the same way as 99% of catholics ignore the teaching on contraception
This makes them bad at following what god has said , it does not mean god has not said it.
If the majority of the flock disagreed surely the religious leaders wouldn't press the issue for fear of upsetting the flock?
I would imagine they would probably read revelations and think they were at the start of it tbh.
The thing is they cannot adapt and modernise as they have the oral code is written in stone [ literally originally as th eword of god given to prophets - they are stuck with this view just like the US is stuck with the right to bear arms. They cannot really re interpret it and still claim to be followers.
of course people an do this in the same way as i could never ride a MTB again and still claim to be a MTB er- neither would be true.
This makes them bad at following what god has said , it does not mean god has not said it.
You mean you think God did say it? 😉
But, it does mean that the church does not have thisnnegative influence on people's behaviour.
Have to go,back and find the original post to which this referred.
Here!
The teacher in me wants to bother to get the biblical quotes that support [i][b]their[/b][/i] homophobia, treatment of women etc but experience teaches me some folk you just cant teach
You mean you think God did say it?
Well no as there is no god but I think they do think the bible is gods word etc
But, it does mean that the church does not have thisnnegative influence on people's behaviour.
Your right all you need to do is ignore what they say and what god says when its negative and not do it. I am not sure how this make you a follower of said religion.
Have to go,back and find the original post which this referred to.
press F5
Repeats
😉
Your right all you need to do is ignore what they say and what god says when its negative and not do it. I am not sure how this make you a follower of said religion.
Well this is a toughie, What makes you a Christian? Live your life like Christ? What did Jesus think about homosexuality? Some might say Jesus is love, and so long homosexuality was about love then it would be ok. Tough to say. What would Jesus do? As they say.
Not sure what makes you a CofE but i think Catholicism has a very minimalistic set of rules in doctrine.
CountZero - Member
But the 'God' didn't say it did she? It was some mad mans interpretation and people were stupid enough to believe him.
So if it were to occur today and say Obama came down a mountain and told the American people God had spoken to him, would as many folk take it as gospel?But isn't that the point that many have been trying to make, that 'the Word of God', as handed down over the ages, is always that of a human being, who says that God spoke to him, and that everyone should accept this unequivocally, because God hath spoken?
This is why I've never been drawn to any faith, I was brought up to make up my own mind, and nothing I've ever read or heard has led to me wanting to join any particular faith or religion. Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.
I've come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural 'force', for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature. Give the whole 'thing' a name, call it 'God' or whatever you like, Pantheism is what comes closest to my way of thinking.
It avoids arguing about who's right and who's wrong, because, in the end, it's just irrelevant.
I'm still enjoying the whole debate, I'm really glad that its kept going this long without really descending into opprobrium.
There are so many conflicting trends and agendas, it's kind of difficult to pick up on what folk are saying or trying to say, it's a brave man who would declare faith on a thread like this in face of the big hitting atheist brigade, but you have only to see the two other poignant threads (suicide and lost son)running this last couple of days to understand why it is so important if only for our sanity at times to have something to believe in, or to seek solace within, be angry at, or attempt to reason. For what it's worth I'm inclined to similar Pantheist views, it also ties in with a couple of other experiences that have given me to conclude there is more going on than a communal garden atheist would believe.
Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it's a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.
Buddhism is the closest, basically because its predicated on improving oneself by being a good human being, without needing the approval or instruction of some nebulous, invisible deity.
Perhaps not a deity, but the use of the term 'good human being' is value laden, good by whose definition?
[b]CountZero[/b] - [u]Member[/u]I've come to think in terms of there being an underlying natural 'force', for want of a better term, that keeps the universe going, kind of like one mind-buggeringly huge coral or jellyfish, where everything is just a tiny part of an infinitely enormous multi-cellular creature
We know.
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Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it's a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.
Sorry, I'm having difficulty in parsing that sentence. Are you saying - actually, I'm not even going to guess, could you clarify for me please?
im guessing the plucked out of thin air percentage* of Catholics who use contraception just quietly do the deed in private and don't go moaning to their local priest about it, it's kinda hypocritical but it doesn't really affect other people so who cares. The other homophobic, sexist, other-ist stuff does affect people so the flock who disagree with their religions stated views/rules should speak up or drop the religion. There's always people saying religions adapt in time so why can't this sort of thing be changed?They do indeed do this in the same way as 99% of catholics ignore the teaching on contraception
*you might be right
...then they would have chosen another religion.
But the vast majority of people DON'T choose their religion. They take the religion of their parents or choose atheism.
igrf seems to have got various quotes of mine and his muddled up.
Oh, and Cougar, Apple just make desirable shiny toys, which I happen to like. I also like Sony shiny toys, they just don't make very many these days, sadly. The universe goes on without them, Samsung, or even you.
Atheism as so often indicated here is one of the main weapons in the homosexual lobby, it's a dangerous pursuit to be politically propagated in a multicultural society such as ours, purely for the sake of sexual freedom as equally as the denial of its pursuit by the bigoted end of the Christian society, the outcome is peurile strife that clouds the quest for truth in my view.
For clarification, this is igrf speaking, not me.
CZ > Don't take that first point seriously, I was only doing a funny.
The second, yes, I know, I just lumped the edits together. I do that sometimes, sorry if there was any confusion.
im guessing the plucked out of thin air percentage*
I think i heard it somewhere so thin air ish but sounds plausible.
There's always people saying religions adapt in time so why can't this sort of thing be changed?
The rules of god are written down you cannot really change the moral pronouncements as stated in the bible and abomination that should be put to death is pretty clear tbh.
18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Junkyard,you still looking at Leviticus? There's been a new Covenant mate! You still watching stuff on Betamax too?
Junkyard - MemberThe rules of god are written down you cannot really change the moral pronouncements as stated in the bible and abomination that should be put to death is pretty clear tbh.
Depends which "God" you choose, try Brahmin the Indian Hindu deity and creator of all life, allegedly construed as both sexes acting and living as as one.
Depends which "God" you choose, try Brahmin the Indian Hindu deity and creator of all life, allegedly construed as both sexes acting and living as as one.
Oooo, hermaphroditism, kinky! 😯
i use the term god for the abrahamic faiths and use the names of any other i refer to as a rule.
Junkyard - Member
i use the term god for the abrahamic faiths and use the names of any other i refer to as a rule.
Yes I understand that, as do a lot of the more verbal atheist types, which is why throughout the thread, I've tried to broaden the discussion, we are after all more a 'global' community these days and the God concept, like it or not is pretty universal and often pre dates abrahamic faiths.
So perhaps the discussion should be using the term 'supreme being' or 'entity' be used as to wether something existed to put 'Big Bang' into place. 'Big Bang' effectively being creation as we know it.