Mrs Pisco reading from a council pamphlet:
"How much are we paying in council tax?"
"£200 per month"
"Well it's going up to £270"
One panicky fact-check later and it turns out it's an extra £70 per year. A Social Care levy apparently
Actually I wouldnt mind the continental approach where there are large communal bins on various corners and that is where the waste is collected from
That's the Edinburgh approach. It kinda works but the problem is no one gives a shit about dumping stuff next to them because it's full and you get companies being dicks and using them too... lol. So it can get proper rank. An unexpected bonus though is you do occasionally see a crushed eurobin where the bin men got it wrong.
Maybe Maggie was right...we should have stuck to Poll Tax...didn't make sense in the 90s especially when I was on YTS £40 a week
If you are bothered about the quality (and breadth) of services that local councils are responsible for, surely you’d welcome this, and maybe disappointed it’s not more
This would be true if council tax was a more progressive tax but a 5% increase is going to really hurt a lot of vulnerable people. Council tax is just a backdoor method of the government taxing the less well off.
Council tax is just a backdoor method of the government taxing the less well off.
+1 dressed up to look like a property tax when it really isn't
In 2019/20 local authority revenue (all councils) was attributable to the following sources:
- council tax 50%
- retained element of business rates 27%
- central gov grants 23%
Revenues from other sources - licensing, permitting, markets, parking fines etc - are valuable but nothing more than a blip.
Councils have financial reserves - but no mechanism to replenish them so, once they start dipping in, that's bad news.
For those querying the fairness of council tax, how would you reform or replace it without reducing council revenues?
Central gov grants are discretionary and are the focus of much lobbying.
The retained proportion of business rates can be varied by central gov.
Any new or modified system must be easy to implement and administer with no/minimal additional cost.
Considering that EE got to put prices up by circa 20%, I think 5% for something useful isn’t too bad.
What is the connection between a mobile network company and a compulsory local tax to fund services many of which should be provided by central government? I can't see any.
If you feel that EE don't provide a useful service then don't use them.
Edit: The petition is in relation to increases above 5% btw.
Councils are forced to hold a referendum if they want to increase council tax by more than 5%.
Unless they have a Tory mayor in which case Michael Gove will allow a 15% rise without a referendum - as is the case with Croydon.
As you (should) know, Croydon was only allowed to impose a 15% increase as they are under a S114 notice - effectively, it's a bankrupt council.
The local government finance act is an informative read - or not, as the case may be.
Only allowed because Michael Gove agreed to it:
‘Sarah Jones, the Labour MP for Croydon Central, has spoken out against the 15per cent Council Tax increase which the Tory Mayor, Jason Perry, is imposing on the borough’s residents from April, calling it “unacceptable” to heap such a massive additional financial burden during the
Conservative cost-of-living crisis.’
As first reported by Inside Croydon earlier this week, Mayor Perry requested government permission to go ahead with the 15per cent Council Tax hike without the need for a local referendum. The Conservative government minister, Michael Gove, announced on Monday that Mayor Perry had got his wish.
Under Perry’s plans, residents living in a typical Band D Croydon home will have an extra £234 added to their annual Council Tax bill from April. On top of that, there will also be an extra £38 for the Mayor of London’s precept, to pay for the Met Police and London Fire Brigade, which combined will make Croydon Council Tax bills among the biggest in the whole of the capital.
Notice how none of these consultancies ever sign up to a gainshare agreement for the savings actually delivered
TBF, some of those cuts would require approval by elected officials (ie the client can't just accept them immediately), some of those programmes last longer than an electoral cycle, and sometimes the client (private or public) just can't stick to its promises.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64821502
"There were 37 votes against the proposed budget, with 34 councillors backing it."
I wonder if Starmer will eventually have a "Kinnock moment" and denounce Labour councillors for not setting a budget, as Kinnock famously denounced Liverpool councillors for not setting a budget in 1985?
The problem though for Starmer is that the majority of Labour councillors in Croydon are right-wingers just like himself. Plus they are hugely responsible for Croydon being bankrupt and in the mess that it is in today.
Poll tax would raise more money and be fairer.
We’ve a couple of HMOs on our street -each with 8-12 working adults per house (some rooms are shared by couples) collectively paying the same as me / my partner.
4% just been announced here. Genuinely surprised it's not a bit higher.
Poll tax would raise more money and be fairer.
We’ve a couple of HMOs on our street -each with 8-12 working adults per house (some rooms are shared by couples) collectively paying the same as me / my partner.
Some would argue that you're more able to pay, so you should pay more.
I reckon the current system isn't terrible. Splits the difference between ability to pay more and consumption of services.
Poll tax would raise more money and be fairer.
Wouldn't it be fantastic if the Tories claimed that a poll tax would be "fairer" and fought the next general election on a pledge to re-introduce it?
I reckon Labour would end up with something like a 400 seat majority.
Sadly despite the Tories's strong penchant to shoot themselves in the foot over the last couple of years even Liz Truss wouldn't dream up something as dumb as that ☹️
Is there a statute of limitations on poll tax non- payment? Asking for a friend.
Some would argue that you’re more able to pay, so you should pay more.
How can you assume CheddarChallenged is more able to pay than the 10 or so working adults in the HMO? They could each have salaries in excess of his. He may be a single earner with his partner.
Council tax is inherently unfair as it’s a tax based on opportunity (if/when you could buy a property or lease one), it’s taken out of already taxed income, and as you say, it doesn’t account for income.
Personally I’m in favour of some form of poll tax, levied according to your income.
But then, that’s basically income tax. So why don’t we just make the whole thing simpler, raise income tax and have everything centrally funded.
increases are Not ideal but understandable given the climate
That said they really have to sort the system out as currently it doesn’t reflect the true value of property, at least round here. My mate and his family live in a house worth significantly more than mine 1 mile away from me. There are four of them, yet they pay less than me even when factoring in my single person discount. Likewise my folks pay less in the same town yet their house is worth 40 % more. I can only assume this is bevcuase my house is a new build?
Bring back thatcher and the poll tax I say..😳😳😂
(That’s a joke btw..)
So why don’t we just make the whole thing simpler, raise income tax and have everything centrally funded.
Because we have been going in the opposite direction for the last 40 years.
The 'rate support grant' used to be hugely important to local authorities, especially in deprived inner-city boroughs.
However in deprived inner-city boroughs voters tend to overwhelmingly vote Labour, so Thatcher dealt with that by first slashing central government rate support grants and then further penalising councils by introducing rate-capping on those which she deemed had over spent.
"Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government presided over an 11-year war between central and local government. Her key characteristics, notably her ideological distaste for the left, meant Labour-controlled councils became an inevitable target for her radicalism."
Thatcher might be long dead and buried but the legacy of her idealogy continues to live. Since 2010, initially with the help of the LibDems, the Tories have slashed central government support to local authorities by 16%, at a time when the burden on local authorities has increased due to ever falling support for social services by central government.
So whatever the merits of your suggestion Ben it would need a very radical government to change the current situation.
Changing tax is a nightmare for any government, you always have winners and very vocal losers who generate lots of bad publicity.
Hence, we just end up with endless tinkering and over 20,000 pages of tax legislation.
sounds alot, but its only £8.40 a month for me..
sickening that i pay double the council tax to a crappy west yorkshire council than those multi millionaires living in westminster pay
@dickboy as my friend points out, westminster council is that rich from property landlord and rental income it doesnt need council tax from its residents..
Changing tax is a nightmare for any government
The Tories scrapped the poll tax pretty bleedin quickly after giving Thatcher the sack. Within a few months they had replaced her "flagship policy" with a completely new local taxation system.
It is amazing how quickly a government can act when there is a general election around the corner and they fear the wrath of the electorate.
Moving quickly certainly saved John Major's premiership in 1992.
How can you assume CheddarChallenged is more able to pay than the 10 or so working adults in the HMO? They could each have salaries in excess of his. He may be a single earner with his partner.
It's a fairly reasonable assumption that people able to afford to live alone are better able to pay than those in shared accommodation. Obviously there will be anomalies, but when tax has to fit everyone, working on a generalisation isn't a bad thing.
But then, that’s basically income tax. So why don’t we just make the whole thing simpler, raise income tax and have everything centrally funded.
Misses people who are wealthy but pay no income tax.
Land Value Tax
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Ffadfbd9e-29ca-4d53-b69a-2497cc3ed95d
That said they really have to sort the system out as currently it doesn’t reflect the true value of property,
The last property valuation for council tax purposes was carried out in 1991. No government has been willing to take the pressure that a revaluation would incur, despite several promises to reform local taxation.
@scotsroutes
so how do they work out houses build past that date?
Id assume it takes into account house price inflation? I imagine my mums house would have cost around 100k back then, it’s now worth well north of 4 times that. Yet it’s in a lower tax bracket than my place, which was built and bought in 2020 for a whole lot less than that
Oddly enough it didn’t appear mine will be going up, only band d appears to be rising in fife
Id assume it takes into account house price inflation?
Kind of - compared to values of similar type properties back in 1991.
The Labour government spent a lot of time and effort on a revaluation of bands in the mid-noughties, and then bottled it, as fairness may have upset the wavering voters
I N R A T S but Mattoutandabout has it.
